Is Wal-Mart Good for America?

[Fosco33]

Instead of hiding an interesting debate with Tank's blog (that's twice in a week for ole APB) - I figured we could start a new one. I'll post the relevant pieces below....

[Fosco33]

6-26-06 at 5:59 PM ET

Ok, Madtown Packer seems to think all I do is data entries so I will summarize what I did today to contrast his thinking.

First, let me say that in this age of computer, data entries are almost unavoidable. Effective companies like to store datas in computers as backups to the hard copies. That way the company can simply retrieve data at the click of a bottom, instead of wasting time looking through piles and piles of papers.

Today I continue to work on the company's balance sheet, mostly with account receivables/payables. The boss trust me enough by now to let me write checks for payables and record receivables. I balanced the balance sheet with a computer program. You know the simple debit/credit stuff. As I result I was able to see where the company stands financially at this time of the year.

Nothing to brag about because what I did today are basic Acc 311 stuff. But it sure does beat working at wal-mart as an "associate"

[Fosco33]

So they had you move the boxes with all the paperwork from one room to another? By balance do you mean making sure it doesnt tip over?

There is nothing wrong with what you do tank. I just said that cuz I know it burns a lil spoiled bitch like you up to be a commoner. I have done much, much worse jobs.

Right now it is 108 where I live and I was recalling when I would do field labor as a teen. 8-10 sometimes even 12 hour shifts in this heat aint no joke and is something that made me stronger. But YOU think you are TOO GOOD for that kind of work when you really should be grateful you never had to.

I dont work at WalMart but I would never look down on someone who does, cuz at least they are working and trying to provide for themselves.

[Fosco33]

Madtown packer, do yo understand the phase "getting a taste of your own medicine?" Hey you started it.

I have worked at wal-mart and a burger joint in HS to earn the income for my "addiction," so I know that its work at those places. Who said i look down at people who works at such and such places? In a way, although I disagree with some of their labor practices, I admire wal-mart for helping lower the unemployment rate. I also admire the blue-collar workers who get up to work each day and work diligently for their families.

[Fosco33]

WalMart is bad for healthcare and leads to increased cost for society. As an extreme liberal - shouldn't you hate WalMart for their sexist practices, non labor union and minimal benefits for FTEs?

[Fosco33]

I was kind of thinking the same thing. Yet conservatives hate Walmart since they kill off the small businesses. What it comes down to is there is really nothing good about Wal-Mart for businesses or employees, only consumers.

[Fosco33]

I was looking at a breakdown of shoppers by family income. It turns out that the average income of customers at Wal-Mart is dramatically lower than other discount stores, like Target & Shopco. Sorry I can't remember the numbers, but it blew me away.

Wal-mart is a lifeline for poor people. Of course there is a problem with driving-out small businesses. But a Wal-mart boycott is an elitist idea that isn't gonna work.

We need national health insurance, that's the real underlying problem.

[Fosco33]

Wal-Mart delivers value to their customers and their shareholders by driving cost out of the supply chain, driving prices down to end users. So did Amazon. There is nothing inherently wrong there. It represented a paradigm shift for small businesses that were unable to react and compete.

The solution in capatalism is the same as it's always been - evolve or become extinct. And it works the same way in business as it does in nature.

[MJZiggy]

Wal Mart sucks...

[Fosco33]

agreed, I am not one to boycott walmart, I shop there all the time. It's convient and great to have all my goods (especially at school where there aren't many options) in the one place (super-walmart).

It is also significantly cheaper (several dollars for same products) then the local grocery store.

I really wish Wal-Mart would just pay their employees better. Cost Co pays their full-time employees 42,000 a year I read in an article. They did this because it gives them enough to put their kids through school and live a good live. In addition to this, it raised moral and made the workers something like ten times as productive. It was an interesting study. Tomorrow at work i'll see if I can pull it up.

right, but there are laws and regulations that have been broke in the past by wal-mart in a deliberate attempt to monopolize the small town. For example, Wal-Mart has been taken to court by so many companies for selling products below their cost in order to grab shoppers, and then once they kill off the other business, they hike up their prices again. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't understand the legality of it, but at the very least one has to agree its unethical. Obviously, a company like that can afford to take a hit for an extended period of time until it monopolizes that stuff.

[Fosco33]

I'm not familiar with the intracacies of monopolistic practices, but I am aware that there are laws against predatory pricing. If Walmart abuses the system, I'm confident they'll get their just due. People are watching them like a hawk now. They get plenty of bad press.

I'm not sure Costco is being completely altruistic. They're getting value for that $42K, as their employees seem far more capable than those I've seen at Sam's and Walmart.

[Fosco33]

I won't disagree with this statement but there are other underlying reasons why I dislike WalMart (I got into a debate w/ some coworkers a few months ago and ended up reading about 500 pages of pro/cons).

WalMart accounts for a large majority of retail sales for the US. Most of these products are purchased or produced in China resulting in a huge trade deficit. Implicitly, you'd think most of these companies (based in China) are US subsidiaries - but they are not. WalMart imports $20-$30B every year from China.

WalMart works on margins and a few deep discount products to bring in the masses (overall, there prices are lower but not significantly lower - say 2-4 % vs. other retailers). As they pressure the supply chain of US businesses (to evolve or disappear) - these companies are forced to lay off workers, cutting wages/benes or going overseas. True though, this has forced the productivity and innovation of US companies - that is until they get laid off and go work for WalMart (at which time they can't support their family and society has to step in).

I've yet to buy into the fact that with education (which doesn't appear to be improving) the US will be a service economy (focused on tech, engineering and biomed). We still need a positive trade balance with foreign countries and will always have demand for certain industries (agriculture specifically).

What was more intriguing in my research - the savings that customers saved didn't get piped back into other disposable/discretionary expenditures - instead it went right to the Walton family.

Personally, I've never spent a dollar directly at WalMart - I steer clear from them mainly because the customers and employees are disgusting - call me an elitist - I don't care. I'm not into pinching pennies yet.

[Fosco33]

Huh? Shouldn't the "savings that customers saved" be with the customers, not with the Walton family? I don't follow what is bad about the customers saving money.

What do we care what the Waltons do with the money they've earned? By the way, the ONLY way that the dollars don't get "piped" back into the economy is if the Walton's take the cash, put it into a sock, and stick it into their mattress.

Other than that, it's piped somewhere. Whether they do it, the bank does it, or whatever, it is still working.

[Fosco33]

LOL. What I meant is that the perceived savings from shopping at WalMart are not generally kept by the consumer (for other investments or critical expenses) - instead it's given to WalMart by purchasing more things - some of which are not critical. Let's say this money given to the Walton's is then invested back into creating more WalMarts - further reducing suppliers based in the US and increasing the trade deficit.

[Fosco33]

Well, part one is a consumer problem, not a Wal-mart problem. I agree with you that this problem exists and it is an epidemic, but I don't think we can blame that on Wal-Mart however. What happened to personal responsibility? I have yet to be "held at gunpoint" by a Wal-Mart cashier until I bought more Chinese goods than I wanted.

Purchasing non critical things is an epidemic in this country. For example, is ANYTHING purchased at Best Buy really a "necessity"? How much of Best Buy's stuff is "Made in the USA"? Can you even purchase a US made TV anymore? I don't think so...

Face it Fosco, we don't make much anymore. We can blame the trade deficit on Wal-Mart, but, in reality, they're just the largest and easiest to point fingers at. Our economy is changing, we're not primarily manufacturing anymore. That is not Wal-Mart's fault. There are many factors for this.

Wal-Mart is not "reducing suppliers" in the US. Suppliers are responsible for maintaining and growing their businesses. If they can be "price competitive" Wal-Mart will buy from them. If they can't, they won't. You do the same thing in your household on a smaller scale. Why is it OK for you to "comparison shop", but it isn't for Wal-Mart?