62% to 31%

[Freak Out]

If Israel feels the new US leadership will not assist or help they may
be more inclined to attack without concern about world perception.

They're going to get condemned no matter what, so might as well do
what they have to do. If Hamas is going to fire rockets from civilian homes
then innocent civilians are going to be killed in a retaliatory response.

Fortunately for Israel they aren't imposing on their own soldiers the Rules of Engagement our military places on US soldiers.

http://www.nbc-links.com/roe.html

This site shows just how stupid our ROE are.

Sorry but that's not how it works Travis.

[Freak Out]

I think the thing the MSM glossed over (especially with the shelling of the UN schools in Gaza) is that Hamas fires their rockets from residential areas and schools.

Hamas has fired hundreds of rockets into Israel since the last ceasefire, which Hamas violated.

If Mexicans were firing hundreds of rockets from Nuevo Laredo, Mexico into Laredo, Texas, do you think we would sit idly by and show "restraint"? Highly unlikely.

Yes we would show restraint...stop insulting US Troops.

[digitaldean]

I think the thing the MSM glossed over (especially with the shelling of the UN schools in Gaza) is that Hamas fires their rockets from residential areas and schools.

Hamas has fired hundreds of rockets into Israel since the last ceasefire, which Hamas violated.

If Mexicans were firing hundreds of rockets from Nuevo Laredo, Mexico into Laredo, Texas, do you think we would sit idly by and show "restraint"? Highly unlikely.

Yes we would show restraint...stop insulting US Troops.

Sorry for my lack of perception, but is that sarcasm? Didn't think I was, just illustrating a point.

[texaspackerbacker]

Restraint--or the lack of it--comes from a higher level--the Rules of Engagement thing referred to earlier. Of course, American troops, and probably to almost as great an extent, Israeli troops show individual restraint--which mostly means abiding by the rules of engagement. That goes along with the whole Good versus Evil concept--we are a helluva lot more civilized and virtuous--and I include the Israelis in "we"--than pretty much any of the enemies we have fought in the last century or so. Anybody that denies or doesn't believe that has a wrongheaded America-hate or western civilization-hate bias.

The prospect of Israel distrusting--either rightly or wrongly--the Obama Administration to back them and not follow some moral equivalency based equal treatment for genocidal terrorists policy will likely lead to an increase in unilateral Israeli action in the next four years. That doesn't mean Israel degenerating to the level of barbarism of their enemies, however.

[TravisWilliams23]

If Israel feels the new US leadership will not assist or help they may
be more inclined to attack without concern about world perception.

They're going to get condemned no matter what, so might as well do
what they have to do. If Hamas is going to fire rockets from civilian homes
then innocent civilians are going to be killed in a retaliatory response.

Fortunately for Israel they aren't imposing on their own soldiers the Rules of Engagement our military places on US soldiers.

http://www.nbc-links.com/roe.html

This site shows just how stupid our ROE are.

Sorry but that's not how it works Travis.

In know. It was meant to be sarcasm about the ROE's.

If you get a chance, read Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrell. The ROE
imposed upon our military indirectly caused the lives of 3 Navy Seals.
Because the Seal team couldn't contact the "proper authorities" when
3 Afghani civilians stumbled upon their location, the team had to make
a decision to kill them or let them go free.

Since the team didn't want to be later charged with "murder", they decided
to free them. The Afghani's went directly to the Taliban to report the Seals
location and the fire fight that ensued took the lives of 3 Navy Seals.
That's total bullshit and you can't expect soldiers fighting for their lives
to have to make those kinds of decisions on the battle field.

[arcilite]

I started this thread genuinely wondering whether our forum leftists would be as anti-Israel as they always are anti-American, anti-free enterprise, anti-Christian, and anti-just about everything else that is good.

Well, Tyrone, I have to say I am pleasantly surprised at your take about Israel. I've known Jewish liberals who were like that--extreme left on everything else, but pro-Israel, but it's pretty rare in general for those of you of the leftist persuasion.

I hope it doesn't all turn out to be a big pile of ..... sarcasm on your part.

I would say us American hating liberals are more anti-religion than anti-Christian.

Probably true (or at least I thought so before reading BHead's post). The thing is, if you're in America, the primary religion for ya'all to hate is Christian. Besides, the others are wrong and eminently hateable anyway.

It is true, though, that there are at least as many America-hating leftists with the ACLU-like mentality BHead cited, as there are like you, arcilite, who are equal opportunity haters--just having more opporunity to hate Christians.

Anyway, it was refreshing to see that Tyrone's usual leftist hate-speak didn't spill over to Israel. How about you, arcilite--and the rest of you lefties too?

The entire area over there is just FUBAR.

I don't think I am educated enough on the issues to get into a lengthy debate over the topic, but I think I back Israel on this one issue. Hamas just seems to be up to no good and needs a swift ass-kicking or something.

[texaspackerbacker]

First Tyrone, now arcilite. You leftists--some of you at least--are showing up on the side of good, for once. I salute you--on this one issue, anyway.

[Freak Out]

White phosphorus anyone?

[mraynrand]

body parts, anyone? Enjoy your dinner - I'm sure these Israelis did before they were blown into little pieces of bloody flesh.

[Freak Out]

Are you saying the Israelis are no better than the terrorists?

[texaspackerbacker]

Are you saying the Israelis are no better than the terrorists?

Are you dense? He's illustrating the justification of Israeli actions.

[Freak Out]

Are you saying the Israelis are no better than the terrorists?

Are you dense? He's illustrating the justification of Israeli actions.

Really?

[Freak Out]

Funny stuff.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/01/16/gaza_invasion/index.html

"In late June 2006, Israeli aircraft fired nine missiles at the transformers at the Gaza City Power Plant, the only electric power plant in the Occupied Territories. (One of the original partners in the project was Enron, but that's another story.) The missiles caused damage estimated at $15 million to $20 million and, for a time, made Gaza wholly reliant on electricity flows from Israel. The 140-megawatt power plant, owned by the Palestine Electric Co., was insured by the Overseas Private Investment Corp., an arm of the U.S. government. Thus the U.S. was providing fuel and materiel to the Israeli military, which destroyed the plant, but it was also paying to fix the damage. Call it cradle-to-grave service."

[texaspackerbacker]

I'd say that gives us--U.S.--leverage over the Palestinians--play ball and rein in the terrorists among you or get used to living in the dark.

[swede]

Funny stuff.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/01/16/gaza_invasion/index.html

"In late June 2006, Israeli aircraft fired nine missiles at the transformers at the Gaza City Power Plant, the only electric power plant in the Occupied Territories. (One of the original partners in the project was Enron, but that's another story.) The missiles caused damage estimated at $15 million to $20 million and, for a time, made Gaza wholly reliant on electricity flows from Israel. The 140-megawatt power plant, owned by the Palestine Electric Co., was insured by the Overseas Private Investment Corp., an arm of the U.S. government. Thus the U.S. was providing fuel and materiel to the Israeli military, which destroyed the plant, but it was also paying to fix the damage. Call it cradle-to-grave service."

Oh, it's funny when terrorists fire missiles into Israel from a power plant that provides energy to the citizens of Gaza? And it is funny that Israel restores that energy supply to the citizens of Gaza rather than cut them off for protecting the terrorists of Hamas?

Not all irony is humorous.

Edit: Wait a minute. This blurb is from Salon in 2006!

I certainly don't see the relevance without the context of the action, but then...if Salon's readers expected fairness and context it would have none.