Obama and Terrorist Rights

[Freak Out]

the notorious U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, within a year. But as the United States moves to end this shameful episode,

"notorious", "shameful" - what is the point of continuing to read the article?

I'm looking for some thoughtful analysis, not a repetition of propoganda.

I had to laugh but posted it for the comments of some of the military brass involved. That's all.

Who is not appalled at the things you described ayn?

[mraynrand]

Who is not appalled at the things you described ayn?

Al Quaeda. I included that description to add perspective. I think it's easy to get detached from the reality of what kind of people we are dealing with here. There are very few innocent goat herders in Gitmo, methinks.

[Freak Out]

Who is not appalled at the things you described ayn?

Al Quaeda. I included that description to add perspective. I think it's easy to get detached from the reality of what kind of people we are dealing with here. There are very few innocent goat herders in Gitmo, methinks.

The US has said that 50-60 of the detainees do not pose a risk and they want to release them...but either the EU nations where they have lived are balking at taking them or their home countries have serious human rights violations so the US will not send them back. What do we do with this group?

[mraynrand]

Who is not appalled at the things you described ayn?

Al Quaeda. I included that description to add perspective. I think it's easy to get detached from the reality of what kind of people we are dealing with here. There are very few innocent goat herders in Gitmo, methinks.

The US has said that 50-60 of the detainees do not pose a risk and they want to release them...but either the EU nations where they have lived are balking at taking them or their home countries have serious human rights violations so the US will not send them back. What do we do with this group?

That's a good question.

[swede]

Who is not appalled at the things you described ayn?

Al Quaeda. I included that description to add perspective. I think it's easy to get detached from the reality of what kind of people we are dealing with here. There are very few innocent goat herders in Gitmo, methinks.

The US has said that 50-60 of the detainees do not pose a risk and they want to release them...but either the EU nations where they have lived are balking at taking them or their home countries have serious human rights violations so the US will not send them back. What do we do with this group?

That's a good question.

The International Space Station could use a new custodial staff. Empty the vacuum toilets and whatnot.

[texaspackerbacker]

Force-feeding hunger strikers? That's a BAD thing? Well, yeah, I guess from MY side's point of view, it is bad. But to libs and coddlers and Euro-wimps, how is keeping the bastards alive considered bad?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Two Prisons, Similar Issues for President
WASHINGTON — For months, a national debate has raged over the fate of the 245 detainees at the United States military prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

But what may be an equally difficult problem now confronts the Obama administration in the 600 prisoners packed into a cavernous, makeshift prison on the American air base at Bagram in Afghanistan.

Military personnel who know Bagram and Guantánamo describe the Afghan site as tougher and more spartan. The prisoners have fewer privileges and virtually no access to lawyers. Many are still held communally in big cages. The Bush administration never allowed journalists or human rights advocates inside.

Problems have also developed with efforts to rehabilitate former jihadists, some of whom had been imprisoned at Guantánamo. Nine graduates of a Saudi program have been arrested for rejoining terrorist groups, Saudi officials said Monday

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/washington/27bagram.html

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't think the world gives a flying fuck about the prisoners in Afghanistan.

Gitmo anger was all about anti-Americanism, and even more so hatred of Bush.

Bush did not do a good job in International relationships. That's just a fact. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld refused to play the games.

It is good for our country that we have a new party in power.

[texaspackerbacker]

I don't think the world would have given a flying fuck about Bush in general--if not for the constant Bush-hate and America-hate spewed by our own leftist mainstream media--which in turn, infected media perspective worldwide. And I KNOW I don't give a flying fuck about the world--which let's face it, is just a bunch of meaningless trash foreigners--thinks anyway.

Can anybody honestly make the claim that having damn foreigners--and Americans for that matter--love and respect an asshole like Clinton (and now Obama) and hate Bush, was anything other than a product of blatant and sick media bias in favor of leftists and against anything pro-American or conservative?

[texaspackerbacker]

Two Prisons, Similar Issues for President
WASHINGTON — For months, a national debate has raged over the fate of the 245 detainees at the United States military prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

But what may be an equally difficult problem now confronts the Obama administration in the 600 prisoners packed into a cavernous, makeshift prison on the American air base at Bagram in Afghanistan.

Military personnel who know Bagram and Guantánamo describe the Afghan site as tougher and more spartan. The prisoners have fewer privileges and virtually no access to lawyers. Many are still held communally in big cages. The Bush administration never allowed journalists or human rights advocates inside.

Problems have also developed with efforts to rehabilitate former jihadists, some of whom had been imprisoned at Guantánamo. Nine graduates of a Saudi program have been arrested for rejoining terrorist groups, Saudi officials said Monday

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/wa.../27bagram.html

So send the pieces of terrorist shit to Bagram. The only downside is that there actually was a terrorist orchestrated prison break there once, and theoretically, it could happen again. MAYBE we LET that break happen, then gun down all 245 of them--thereby solving the problem--you know, kinda like in old cowboy movies where the sheriff opens the jail door and gives the prisoner a two second head start.

If we still had Bush instead of a spineless Erkel like Obama, I'd actually have some hope for this.

[Harlan Huckleby]

was a terrorist orchestrated prison break there once, and theoretically, it could happen again. MAYBE we LET that break happen, then gun down all 245 of them--thereby solving the problem

you definitely get points for thinking outside the box.

come to think of it, the OBVIOUS solution to GITMO is to ship the bastards to Afghanistan for a more rustic internment experience. But that won't happen, it would draw too much attention to the far worse condition there.

I don't like the willfull dishonesty of this cave-in to world-wide opinion. The pretending to be chastened. But we need to be a little humble and wonder if it won't work out to be a smart choice that brings benefits.

World-wide opinion matters a great deal. Gulf War I went smoothly because we had amazing international cooperation. In Gulf War II, MANY Iraqi and American lives were lost because of the long-term consequences of our ally Turkey working against us. The U.S. needs allies.

[mraynrand]

World-wide opinion matters a great deal. Gulf War I went smoothly because we had amazing international cooperation. In Gulf War II, MANY Iraqi and American lives were lost because of the long-term consequences of our ally Turkey working against us. The U.S. needs allies.

I agree. But sometimes you have to go on even in the face of negative worldwide opinion, because you know the world's opinion is wrong. In the cases of Abu Grahib and Gitmo, the word on the street was far more damaging. At Abu Grahib, the people held there were released and told their stories to their friends and neighbors - that was probably the single most damaging event, PR-wise. Not because of the bad press, but because of the actual experiences being told friend to friend. Michael Yon reported on this and a buddy of mine who was in the military hospital there, said the same thing - many of the Iraqis they operated on and saved were shocked at the great treatment they received because they thought they would be treated like the prisoners at Abu. I suspect there is a similar effect from Gitmo - but to a lesser extent. It's a dicey situation, because you know you have the worst of the worst side by side with innocents.

[texaspackerbacker]

was a terrorist orchestrated prison break there once, and theoretically, it could happen again. MAYBE we LET that break happen, then gun down all 245 of them--thereby solving the problem

you definitely get points for thinking outside the box.

come to think of it, the OBVIOUS solution to GITMO is to ship the bastards to Afghanistan for a more rustic internment experience. But that won't happen, it would draw too much attention to the far worse condition there.

I don't like the willfull dishonesty of this cave-in to world-wide opinion. The pretending to be chastened. But we need to be a little humble and wonder if it won't work out to be a smart choice that brings benefits.

World-wide opinion matters a great deal. Gulf War I went smoothly because we had amazing international cooperation. In Gulf War II, MANY Iraqi and American lives were lost because of the long-term consequences of our ally Turkey working against us. The U.S. needs allies.

Harlan, what you see as thinking outside the box I see as merely reflecting the normal viewpoints of normal people.

It could and should be done--the shipping off to Afghanistan--without public knowledge. There again, that would be the Bush way--Obama has his damn transparency thing--SELECTIVE transparency, only when it harms America.

I HATE the idea of caving to world opinion a thousand times as much as you. We are the United States of America, the dominant military force in the world, and the ONLY force for good in the world--and WE should care what the assholic cowards of Europe or the embracers of EVIL in the Muslim world or the just plain irrelevant third worlders think? Give me a break!

As for your little flawed comparison of the Gulf Wars, the military portion in BOTH cases went incredibly smooth--perhaps you recall the smooth sailing to and through the fall of Baghdad, even well after--the capture of Saddam, etc. Things only turned to shit when al Qaeda made a supreme effort to stir up sectarian violence--starting with bombing that Shi'ite mosque--and as I have stated repeatedly, doing that probably diminished al Qaeda's ability to hit us at home. Perhaps you also recall after the first Gulf War the ill-fated UN mission in Iraq--what happens when we leave things to shitheads from foreign countries to manage. Perhaps you also recall that Afghanistan was just fine for years until we turned over a lot of the responsibility to NATO--the worthless Euro-trash. Then things deteriorated to the point where now 20,000 additional Americans are going back to set things right.

Time was lost, not lives due to the treachery of the Turks in the second Gulf War. The 82nd Airborne secured the northern oil facilities and the al Qaeda training camp early on--the main mission the troops coming in from Turkey would have had.

We need allies? Bullshit! The trash "allies" need us!

Without the protection of America, the whole civilized world would have fallen prey to the forces of evil a long time ago--Nazism, Communism, radical Islam--tell me that isn't 100% true.

[mraynrand]

We need allies? Bullshit! The trash "allies" need us!

Without the protection of America, the whole civilized world would have fallen prey to the forces of evil a long time ago--Nazism, Communism, radical Islam--tell me that isn't 100% true.

That's dead-on balls right.

[Freak Out]

We need allies? Bullshit! The trash "allies" need us!

Without the protection of America, the whole civilized world would have fallen prey to the forces of evil a long time ago--Nazism, Communism, radical Islam--tell me that isn't 100% true.

That's dead-on balls right.

We need each other.