NRA

[Tyrone Bigguns]

41% of Americans have representation without taxation, at the Federal level.

Really? They don't pay any taxes?

Think hard about that.

Tyrone, he's right, you're wrong, again.

You are implying that these people pay social security. What you're forgetting about is that most of the social security taxes these low income workers pay is rebated through other credits on the tax form, examples are child tax credit, additional child tax credit, earned income credit, and various other entitlements.

While the 41% deals with specifically federal INCOME tax, there is a large percentage of that 41% number that is paying no effective federal taxes of ANY kind.

Maybe you should stop googling for a little while and start thinking. If you've got it in you...

Here's something to get you started.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/1410.html

Sorry, but FICA and income taxes aren't the only Federal taxes we pay.....

Now you want to talk semantics. Ok, how about the guy who "pays" $10 of taxes by your definition but gets $20 of benefit/services back. Does he pay taxes or not?

Classic liberalism, can't argue the point straight up so play number/word games to shift the attention away from the fact that 41% of the people's vote have been bought by giving them get out of taxes free cards.

We are arguing the point, straightup. The 41% stated is factually incorrect.

As for the payin vs. bennie. Stupid. Of course he pays taxes.

You don't hear me complaining about taxes and how i'm subsiding conservative families with kids...after all, i pay taxes that are used for education..yet, i have no children.

[mraynrand]

We are arguing the point, straightup. The 41% stated is factually incorrect.

41% do not pay federal income taxes. You are incorrect.

[bobblehead]

41% of Americans have representation without taxation, at the Federal level.

Really? They don't pay any taxes?

Think hard about that.

Tyrone, he's right, you're wrong, again.

You are implying that these people pay social security. What you're forgetting about is that most of the social security taxes these low income workers pay is rebated through other credits on the tax form, examples are child tax credit, additional child tax credit, earned income credit, and various other entitlements.

While the 41% deals with specifically federal INCOME tax, there is a large percentage of that 41% number that is paying no effective federal taxes of ANY kind.

Maybe you should stop googling for a little while and start thinking. If you've got it in you...

Here's something to get you started.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/1410.html

Sorry, but FICA and income taxes aren't the only Federal taxes we pay.....

Now you want to talk semantics. Ok, how about the guy who "pays" $10 of taxes by your definition but gets $20 of benefit/services back. Does he pay taxes or not?

Classic liberalism, can't argue the point straight up so play number/word games to shift the attention away from the fact that 41% of the people's vote have been bought by giving them get out of taxes free cards.

We are arguing the point, straightup. The 41% stated is factually incorrect.

As for the payin vs. bennie. Stupid. Of course he pays taxes.

You don't hear me complaining about taxes and how i'm subsiding conservative families with kids...after all, i pay taxes that are used for education..yet, i have no children.

First off I don't believe in the child tax credit, or any other crap like that. I don't even mind a slightly progressive tax, but it should be straight up, this is what you made, this is what you pay. As far as the education thing...you might not have kids, but you used the education system yourself (although some may argue you didn't get your moneys worth).

[bobblehead]

41% of Americans have representation without taxation, at the Federal level.

Really? They don't pay any taxes?

Think hard about that.

Tyrone, he's right, you're wrong, again.

You are implying that these people pay social security. What you're forgetting about is that most of the social security taxes these low income workers pay is rebated through other credits on the tax form, examples are child tax credit, additional child tax credit, earned income credit, and various other entitlements.

While the 41% deals with specifically federal INCOME tax, there is a large percentage of that 41% number that is paying no effective federal taxes of ANY kind.

Maybe you should stop googling for a little while and start thinking. If you've got it in you...

Here's something to get you started.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/1410.html

Sorry, but FICA and income taxes aren't the only Federal taxes we pay.....

Now you want to talk semantics. Ok, how about the guy who "pays" $10 of taxes by your definition but gets $20 of benefit/services back. Does he pay taxes or not?

Classic liberalism, can't argue the point straight up so play number/word games to shift the attention away from the fact that 41% of the people's vote have been bought by giving them get out of taxes free cards.

You can't possibly quantify the ways in which each of us benefit from the federal system, so I don't really see what your point is. Somebody receives more $ value in "services" than they pay in taxes, and others pay a higher $ value than they receive in direct services. And this is news???? Look around you, Bobblehead, most of your conservative breathren are relatively at peace with the idea of a progressive tax structure. It's a system that has been in place for more than 75 years--hardly a matter of "semantics."

that is my point. You are getting into side arguements and other silly unquantifiable arguments. 41% don't pay federal income taxes was the full intent of the statement, not payroll taxes or sales taxes or gas taxes or anything else. I was simply saying if you want to get into silly side arguments I could start saying things like 90% of the people effectively get a net gain from the gov't therefore only 10% are actually paying taxes.

[texaspackerbacker]

How did this ever end up in Romper Room instead of FYI?

You know, you guys are violating the civil rights of the 41% who own guns--90% + of whom also pay taxes--by talking about taxes in their gun thread.

[Little Whiskey]

How did this ever end up in Romper Room instead of FYI?

You know, you guys are violating the civil rights of the 41% who own guns--90% + of whom also pay taxes--by talking about taxes in their gun thread.

AMEN!! oh wait, was that supposed to go in Tarlam's thread?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

We are arguing the point, straightup. The 41% stated is factually incorrect.

41% do not pay federal income taxes. You are incorrect.

Unfortunately for you, that isn't what you stated originally.

Is it common for you to switch your argument midstream?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

41% of Americans have representation without taxation, at the Federal level.

Really? They don't pay any taxes?

Think hard about that.

Tyrone, he's right, you're wrong, again.

You are implying that these people pay social security. What you're forgetting about is that most of the social security taxes these low income workers pay is rebated through other credits on the tax form, examples are child tax credit, additional child tax credit, earned income credit, and various other entitlements.

While the 41% deals with specifically federal INCOME tax, there is a large percentage of that 41% number that is paying no effective federal taxes of ANY kind.

Maybe you should stop googling for a little while and start thinking. If you've got it in you...

Here's something to get you started.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/1410.html

Sorry, but FICA and income taxes aren't the only Federal taxes we pay.....

Now you want to talk semantics. Ok, how about the guy who "pays" $10 of taxes by your definition but gets $20 of benefit/services back. Does he pay taxes or not?

Classic liberalism, can't argue the point straight up so play number/word games to shift the attention away from the fact that 41% of the people's vote have been bought by giving them get out of taxes free cards.

We are arguing the point, straightup. The 41% stated is factually incorrect.

As for the payin vs. bennie. Stupid. Of course he pays taxes.

You don't hear me complaining about taxes and how i'm subsiding conservative families with kids...after all, i pay taxes that are used for education..yet, i have no children.

First off I don't believe in the child tax credit, or any other crap like that. I don't even mind a slightly progressive tax, but it should be straight up, this is what you made, this is what you pay. As far as the education thing...you might not have kids, but you used the education system yourself (although some may argue you didn't get your moneys worth).

You don't believe? How convenient for you.

Education: Sure, i used it. But, didn't my parents pay taxes? So, am i being double billed? Or, since i used it for 22 years...shouldn't i only be expected to pay in for what i used.

[mraynrand]

We are arguing the point, straightup. The 41% stated is factually incorrect.

41% do not pay federal income taxes. You are incorrect.

Unfortunately for you, that isn't what you stated originally.

Is it common for you to switch your argument midstream?

No, but it's common for you to obfuscate and pretend ignorance of the salient points in an attempt to 'win' arguments. Or paste in little faces in place of argument.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

We are arguing the point, straightup. The 41% stated is factually incorrect.

41% do not pay federal income taxes. You are incorrect.

Unfortunately for you, that isn't what you stated originally.

Is it common for you to switch your argument midstream?

No, but it's common for you to obfuscate and pretend ignorance of the salient points in an attempt to 'win' arguments. Or paste in little faces in place of argument.

Really?

I guess the "income" is just a belief...like in jesus, etc.

41% of Americans have representation without taxation, at the Federal level.

[bobblehead]

41% of Americans have representation without taxation, at the Federal level.

Really? They don't pay any taxes?

Think hard about that.

Tyrone, he's right, you're wrong, again.

You are implying that these people pay social security. What you're forgetting about is that most of the social security taxes these low income workers pay is rebated through other credits on the tax form, examples are child tax credit, additional child tax credit, earned income credit, and various other entitlements.

While the 41% deals with specifically federal INCOME tax, there is a large percentage of that 41% number that is paying no effective federal taxes of ANY kind.

Maybe you should stop googling for a little while and start thinking. If you've got it in you...

Here's something to get you started.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/1410.html

Sorry, but FICA and income taxes aren't the only Federal taxes we pay.....

Now you want to talk semantics. Ok, how about the guy who "pays" $10 of taxes by your definition but gets $20 of benefit/services back. Does he pay taxes or not?

Classic liberalism, can't argue the point straight up so play number/word games to shift the attention away from the fact that 41% of the people's vote have been bought by giving them get out of taxes free cards.

We are arguing the point, straightup. The 41% stated is factually incorrect.

As for the payin vs. bennie. Stupid. Of course he pays taxes.

You don't hear me complaining about taxes and how i'm subsiding conservative families with kids...after all, i pay taxes that are used for education..yet, i have no children.

First off I don't believe in the child tax credit, or any other crap like that. I don't even mind a slightly progressive tax, but it should be straight up, this is what you made, this is what you pay. As far as the education thing...you might not have kids, but you used the education system yourself (although some may argue you didn't get your moneys worth).

You don't believe? How convenient for you.

Education: Sure, i used it. But, didn't my parents pay taxes? So, am i being double billed? Or, since i used it for 22 years...shouldn't i only be expected to pay in for what i used.

Huge quote chain...proud to be part. Ty, I don't believe in social engineering through the tax code so I don't believe in the child tax credit. The GOP does, but I don't have to agree with them.

As far as the education thingy, I could make several arguments about how you benefit from an educated society even without children. I have no children either, but I accept that schools are vital infrastructure. Your parents also likely used public school anyway, so we can keep taking this backwards. I highly doubt you believe your own rhetoric on this one, likely its more obfuscation.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

41% of Americans have representation without taxation, at the Federal level.

Really? They don't pay any taxes?

Think hard about that.

Tyrone, he's right, you're wrong, again.

You are implying that these people pay social security. What you're forgetting about is that most of the social security taxes these low income workers pay is rebated through other credits on the tax form, examples are child tax credit, additional child tax credit, earned income credit, and various other entitlements.

While the 41% deals with specifically federal INCOME tax, there is a large percentage of that 41% number that is paying no effective federal taxes of ANY kind.

Maybe you should stop googling for a little while and start thinking. If you've got it in you...

Here's something to get you started.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/1410.html

Sorry, but FICA and income taxes aren't the only Federal taxes we pay.....

Now you want to talk semantics. Ok, how about the guy who "pays" $10 of taxes by your definition but gets $20 of benefit/services back. Does he pay taxes or not?

Classic liberalism, can't argue the point straight up so play number/word games to shift the attention away from the fact that 41% of the people's vote have been bought by giving them get out of taxes free cards.

We are arguing the point, straightup. The 41% stated is factually incorrect.

As for the payin vs. bennie. Stupid. Of course he pays taxes.

You don't hear me complaining about taxes and how i'm subsiding conservative families with kids...after all, i pay taxes that are used for education..yet, i have no children.

First off I don't believe in the child tax credit, or any other crap like that. I don't even mind a slightly progressive tax, but it should be straight up, this is what you made, this is what you pay. As far as the education thing...you might not have kids, but you used the education system yourself (although some may argue you didn't get your moneys worth).

You don't believe? How convenient for you.

Education: Sure, i used it. But, didn't my parents pay taxes? So, am i being double billed? Or, since i used it for 22 years...shouldn't i only be expected to pay in for what i used.

Huge quote chain...proud to be part. Ty, I don't believe in social engineering through the tax code so I don't believe in the child tax credit. The GOP does, but I don't have to agree with them.

As far as the education thingy, I could make several arguments about how you benefit from an educated society even without children. I have no children either, but I accept that schools are vital infrastructure. Your parents also likely used public school anyway, so we can keep taking this backwards. I highly doubt you believe your own rhetoric on this one, likely its more obfuscation.

The original point was the 41% don't pay federal taxes..that is completely untrue. If the statement had been income then we might have something to talk about.

Schools: The point was that many of us pay taxes and don't receive an equal benefit..something you brought up. I pay, and will pay far more in taxes then i ever receive..and since your example didn't include societal benefits...it is kinda disengenous for you to bring that up now.

I have no problem paying taxes....it is always the right/conservs that bitch about taxes.

But, if you want to do so....then, why are you complaining about those that dont' pay? Don't you receive a societal bennie from making sure those people are taken care of?

P.S. Since we are talking about taxes...and that group that doesn't pay taxes.....lower socio economic groups tend to smoke more. Guess who is paying a federal tax for their smokes?

We also pay fed excise tax on phones, gas, etc. To make a claim that 41% of people are getting federal representation without paying taxes..is well, absurd. Not to mention all the extremely wealthy individuals that figure out a way not to pay any taxes.

Our tax code is tremendously rigged to favor the wealthy, especially the very wealthy and the very large corporations.

Surely you aren't going to argue that a doc who earns 250K..prolly losing 170 in taxes (fed, ss, state, medicare) is getting the same amount of "representation" as a wealthy heir who earns a "meager" 3% on his 25 mill in stocks/bonds fund (assets, not income are the truth measure of wealth)..."earning" 750K and paying under Obama 20%...150K..leaving him/her with 600K.

[texaspackerbacker]

I tried, Little Whiskey. There just seems to be more interest in taxes than guns--and I have to admit, I feel that way too.

Tyrone, you don't mind paying taxes? I would say that narrows you down to being a hypocrite or a fool, but based on your history of posting, there's plenty of room for you to be both.

Damn straight, we conservatives bitch about taxes. Not only are they a personal anathema, they are the poison pill that kills an economy.

If you want to defend something liberal, Tyrone, consider spending. I found myself in the very uncomfortable position of actually agreeing with that bastard, Obama, today when he spoke of the necessity to spend, both on a personal level and on a government level in time of economic downturn. He was wrong in stating the unanimity of economists about this, but he was correct in the necessity for demand to be stimulated to bounce back. He also was wrong not to give greater emphasis to tax cutting in the stimulatory process.

You stated, Tyrone, that the tax system is bias in favor of the rich. The numbers, of course, all say otherwise. To that extent that your kind, however, sees unfairness or favoritism to the rich in across-the-board i.e. equal tax cutting, the justification is that they are the ones who own the businesses that provide the jobs--arguably the most effective economic stimulant.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I tried, Little Whiskey. There just seems to be more interest in taxes than guns--and I have to admit, I feel that way too.

Tyrone, you don't mind paying taxes? I would say that narrows you down to being a hypocrite or a fool, but based on your history of posting, there's plenty of room for you to be both.

Damn straight, we conservatives bitch about taxes. Not only are they a personal anathema, they are the poison pill that kills an economy.

If you want to defend something liberal, Tyrone, consider spending. I found myself in the very uncomfortable position of actually agreeing with that bastard, Obama, today when he spoke of the necessity to spend, both on a personal level and on a government level in time of economic downturn. He was wrong in stating the unanimity of economists about this, but he was correct in the necessity for demand to be stimulated to bounce back. He also was wrong not to give greater emphasis to tax cutting in the stimulatory process.

You stated, Tyrone, that the tax system is bias in favor of the rich. The numbers, of course, all say otherwise. To that extent that your kind, however, sees unfairness or favoritism to the rich in across-the-board i.e. equal tax cutting, the justification is that they are the ones who own the businesses that provide the jobs--arguably the most effective economic stimulant.

You have a problem with reading comprehension.

No, i'm not in the minority..most people have no problem paying taxes. the issues is the amount paid, not the concept itself.

Taxes are bad? Really? Cool. Let's end them. I'd like to see how the gov't exists without them, i'd like to see how our military survives, etc.

Rich: Sorry, but your personal opinion isn't relevant. I made the argument about taxes based on income vs. wealth. There is no argument about it. The wealthy don't pay their share of taxes.

It is so obvious that you demagogue because who else could argue against my example. IT wasn't a 20k guy vs. a 250k or 25 million. It was 250K vs. 24 mill.

[bobblehead]

41% of Americans have representation without taxation, at the Federal level.

Really? They don't pay any taxes?

Think hard about that.

Tyrone, he's right, you're wrong, again.

You are implying that these people pay social security. What you're forgetting about is that most of the social security taxes these low income workers pay is rebated through other credits on the tax form, examples are child tax credit, additional child tax credit, earned income credit, and various other entitlements.

While the 41% deals with specifically federal INCOME tax, there is a large percentage of that 41% number that is paying no effective federal taxes of ANY kind.

Maybe you should stop googling for a little while and start thinking. If you've got it in you...

Here's something to get you started.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/1410.html

Sorry, but FICA and income taxes aren't the only Federal taxes we pay.....

Now you want to talk semantics. Ok, how about the guy who "pays" $10 of taxes by your definition but gets $20 of benefit/services back. Does he pay taxes or not?

Classic liberalism, can't argue the point straight up so play number/word games to shift the attention away from the fact that 41% of the people's vote have been bought by giving them get out of taxes free cards.

We are arguing the point, straightup. The 41% stated is factually incorrect.

As for the payin vs. bennie. Stupid. Of course he pays taxes.

You don't hear me complaining about taxes and how i'm subsiding conservative families with kids...after all, i pay taxes that are used for education..yet, i have no children.

First off I don't believe in the child tax credit, or any other crap like that. I don't even mind a slightly progressive tax, but it should be straight up, this is what you made, this is what you pay. As far as the education thing...you might not have kids, but you used the education system yourself (although some may argue you didn't get your moneys worth).

You don't believe? How convenient for you.

Education: Sure, i used it. But, didn't my parents pay taxes? So, am i being double billed? Or, since i used it for 22 years...shouldn't i only be expected to pay in for what i used.

Huge quote chain...proud to be part. Ty, I don't believe in social engineering through the tax code so I don't believe in the child tax credit. The GOP does, but I don't have to agree with them.

As far as the education thingy, I could make several arguments about how you benefit from an educated society even without children. I have no children either, but I accept that schools are vital infrastructure. Your parents also likely used public school anyway, so we can keep taking this backwards. I highly doubt you believe your own rhetoric on this one, likely its more obfuscation.

The original point was the 41% don't pay federal taxes..that is completely untrue. If the statement had been income then we might have something to talk about.

Schools: The point was that many of us pay taxes and don't receive an equal benefit..something you brought up. I pay, and will pay far more in taxes then i ever receive..and since your example didn't include societal benefits...it is kinda disengenous for you to bring that up now.

I have no problem paying taxes....it is always the right/conservs that bitch about taxes.

But, if you want to do so....then, why are you complaining about those that dont' pay? Don't you receive a societal bennie from making sure those people are taken care of?

P.S. Since we are talking about taxes...and that group that doesn't pay taxes.....lower socio economic groups tend to smoke more. Guess who is paying a federal tax for their smokes?

We also pay fed excise tax on phones, gas, etc. To make a claim that 41% of people are getting federal representation without paying taxes..is well, absurd. Not to mention all the extremely wealthy individuals that figure out a way not to pay any taxes.

Our tax code is tremendously rigged to favor the wealthy, especially the very wealthy and the very large corporations.

Surely you aren't going to argue that a doc who earns 250K..prolly losing 170 in taxes (fed, ss, state, medicare) is getting the same amount of "representation" as a wealthy heir who earns a "meager" 3% on his 25 mill in stocks/bonds fund (assets, not income are the truth measure of wealth)..."earning" 750K and paying under Obama 20%...150K..leaving him/her with 600K.

You are good. I answer every ridiculous point you make so you turn to making 3 misstatements of fact and 2 obfuscations in the same post. I admit it, you wore me down with your tactics. I no longer care enough to counter your outright attempt to NOT debate the issues.