FUCK THE NRA !!!

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Yes, I read it - why else would I post it?

You said there were no militias and no need for them anymore. I disagree, proved they exist and are definitely needed.

I'm done with this 'debate' - my uncle was shot in the face my a drug dealer on the freeway back from Summerfest like 10 years ago (because he got cut off). My uncle lived but lost everything b/c he was a business owner. The drug dealer got like 5 yrs in jail and was out in 3 - and no, he wasn't in the NRA.

I KNOW GUN VIOLENCE.

Do you?

No way should the gov't take away guns from law abiding, responsible individuals. If they did, do you actually think people (including the criminals) will give them back? Won't happen.

The National Gaurd is more of a law enforcement agency than militia, if its not military. At the time the 2nd amendment was written, it pertains to militias which are "all male citizens." Not all male citizens are part of the national guard. We dont need the militas. We have the cops, the army, the navy, the marine, the air force and the army reserve.

Doesnt it hit you in the head that your uncle might not had suffered his injures had his intruder not been carrying a gun. He couldve driven away with only minor injures. Look what guns did. Look what guns still can do.

[MJZiggy]

I don't know why I'm putting myself through this, but what is your big plan for ridding every criminal in America of his guns so that you can outlaw them safely?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I don't know why I'm putting myself through this, but what is your big plan for ridding every criminal in America of his guns so that you can outlaw them safely?

See the thread title and the 1st post of this thread. The 1st step is to dismantle the hand that feeds.

[MJZiggy]

It doesn't make sense to do the first step without the rest of the plan, so let's hear it.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

It doesn't make sense to do the first step without the rest of the plan, so let's hear it.

Read it again til u understand.

[MJZiggy]

You have to get the guns away from the criminals before doing away with the NRA does you any good. How do you plan to do that? Read the question again 'til you understand.

[Scott Campbell]

I think Tank has made a compelling case. I'm convinced.

I'm going out to buy a gun tomorrow.

[Tony Oday]

Tank you are saying that the US doesnt need militias and I agree with you that in the current state of affairs we do not have the need for militias because there isnt an armed force on the planet that can invade the US successfully.

However are you sure there wont be a time when we would need one? Do you think the British ever thought their empire was going to crumble.

Gun Control is a tough nut to crack. Laws are broken by criminals Tank they are thats how they got their name. In a utopian society there would be no death no crime no guns blah blah blah.

Step into reality now though. There is crime. That bag of weed you buy almost everyday comes from a drug dealer who gets it from another guy on up the chain. The people that grow your drugs KILL people EVERY DAY. They rape our young peoples mind with drugs. They take their money and become untouchable in their home countries and slaughter people do you get that? Do you get that you are a moron? You fund criminals. in fact that makes you an accomplis to murder.

You need to step out of liberal town USA and learn something from the real world. You have lived in a "gated" community your entire life. By gated I mean you have been given everything in your life and have never had to earn it. You think that you know everything because you have read it in a book or you teacher told you what to think. You do not have an original thought in your head. Live life a little and become your OWN man not a drone.

I like that you can take somewhat of a stand on an issue but man you need to come up with your own thoughts little guy.

[Deputy Nutz]

Why do you guys keep arguing with Tank? Do you actually think that you are going to convience him of anything you have to say? He is arguing with you just to argue. How do I know this? Because when somebody posts a compelling fact or statistic he ignores it.

For Tank, Rember, Happiness is a Warm Gun.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The U.S. has less control over guns than most other countries. So apparently Americans are unusual in how they view guns. Europeans think we're crazy allowing handguns to be legal.

I think citizens ought to be able to carry handguns for personal protection.

I don't believe that the citizens need to protect themselves from the government, that's just whacky. If it ever got that corrupt, the citizens wouldn't have a prayer anyway, this is not 1854.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

You have to get the guns away from the criminals before doing away with the NRA does you any good. How do you plan to do that? Read the question again 'til you understand.

Think. Its. All. Politik.

[MJZiggy]

You obviously either don't understand the problem or don't have a solution. When you have a practical plan to disarm criminals so that disbanding the NRA would do something other than screwing the average citizen, then come talk to me. Until then, I'm done with this. And Harlan, I think the Europeans have something there.

[the_idle_threat]

I think we're inclined to answer due to some variation on the theme ...

"In politics, a lie unanswered becomes the truth within 24 hours." -Willie Brown Jr.

However, we should know an exception exists when the proponent of the lies is as credibility-challenged as Tank.

I live in Georgetown so homicide is rare, but one can still the hear sirens from the southeast part of the city every day. There is where the majority of crimes occurs. Drive by shootings, school shootings, kidnapping at gunpoint in broad daylight. Take away guns and such neighborhood would automatically become safer. Trust me, thugs do not want to fight a hard working neighborhood without their guns.

Bold=Lie

This solution has already been implemented, or at least attempted: most guns are already illegal in DC ... and the thugs love it! It's a smorgasboard of ready-made victims! Thugs get guns on the black market (same way Tank gets his weed) and they're the only ones armed! Oh yeah, except for the police, who will show up much later after the crime has occurred to investigate and write up a report.

And if somehow thugs could not get guns anymore (pure fantasy due to the existence of black markets) then they could use knives. Or are we going to outlaw knives?

I guess, sociologically and to paraphrase my sociology professor (who, by the way, is white), the underlying motive behind the NRA and gun-loving conservatives fucks' desire for gun rights is to preserve the symbol of white superiority.

Bold=Damned Lie

The "underlying motive" behind gun rights is: "Don't punish me by taking away my rights solely because of the wrongdoing of others." Race has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Some children facts for you oo7. As a caring mother, you should be worried. But maybe not. Iowa is nothing but endless corn feilds.

Children and Gun Violence
In a single year, 3,012 children and teens were killed by gunfire in the United States, according to the latest national data released in 2002. That is one child every three hours; eight children every day; and more than 50 children every week. And every year, at least 4 to 5 times as many kids and teens suffer from non-fatal firearm injuries. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics)

(Etc, etc ...)

Bold=Statistic

Statistics are so often misleading because they "conveniently" leave out relevant facts. There is a ton of missing info in the Children and Gun Violence stats we so often see ...

(1) The definition of "child" is routinely stretched to include young people "under 20 years old" (in the CDC studies), and in some other studies up to 25 years old. This is done to inflate the statisitics.

(2) The majority of the gun deaths in these studies are suicides, most of which would likely happen some other way if not by firearm.

(3) The next largest group of gun deaths after suicides is gang members in their teens and early twenties who are shooting at each other. Not exactly the same thing as what is generally pictured with these stats: images of pre-teen children on playgrounds.

These misleading stats are thrown around to scare people, like Tank is trying to do with 007, and yet the actual problem of innocent young children being cut down by gunfire is overstated by orders of magnitude.

Now of course, a few disclaimers are in order ...

1) The number of young children killed by gunfire is much smaller than implied by the stats, but this does not render the actual number insignificant. It is a tragedy when any young child is killed ... whether by gunfire or any other means. But getting rid of guns---even if that were possible by legal fiat---will not stop children from dying. Shit will happen, as it always does in the real world. Meanwhile, an unarmed populace is ripe for the pickings for criminals, who will find a way to be armed.

2) Teenage and twentysomething gang members (often people of color) are not worthless lives, and it is not OK that they are killing each other in the streets in significant numbers. But they aren't exactly innocent young "children" either, as suggested by the statistic---they are criminals. And they don't need guns in order to kill, as we have seen in the news coverage of mob beatings in Milwaukee over the past couple of years. An enormous social and economic overhaul is needed to give these young people another option aside from going down the path of gangs and violence. Just taking away the guns (again, if that were even possible in the real world) leaves the penchant for violence intact. We need to target motive ... not tools.

3) The same argument regarding motive ... not tools applies to suicides. If young people are suicidal and cannot access a gun, they have plenty of alternatives to do the deed. If we're going to help them, the answer is inside their heads ... not inside everyone else's gun cabinet.
---------------------------

Of course, not everything Tank wrote is a lie ...

USA is not Stalinist communism or Maoist communism, or Nazi fascism. If anything, giving people the right to bear arm only increase the chance of revolution.

Correct and correct. The last point is exactly why Stalin, Mao and Hitler enacted strict gun control laws. Governments that cannot be trusted cannot trust their citizens with guns. So what is your point, Tank ... Do we want to become more like "Stalinist communism or Maoist communism, or Nazi fascism?"

DC has one of the highest crime rate in the US.

This is true, and has been true for decades. Problem is, DC has had one of the strictest gun bans in the nation since 1976. It has worked like a charm ...






[Edit: After dashing this off from the top of my head, I researched the Children and Guns stats, and made some necessary corrections.]

[Tony Oday]

Wow Tank how does that box that you just got put in again feel?

[Scott Campbell]

Wow Tank how does that box that you just got put in again feel?

It's kind of like playing "Name That Tune". I say "I can put Tank in a box in 5 posts". You say "I can put Tank in a box in 4 posts". And so on.