Questions on Rape - continuing the Ben thread

[Scott Campbell]

So you haven't told him your a part time lesbian yet?



When do we get to meet this new boy toy of yours?

If by part time lesbian, you mean 'sleeps exclusively with men,' then I think he's got that part figured out pretty well by now.

"Men" is plural.

Welcome to Utah!!!!

I thought polygamy only worked for men.

Don't be so sexist.


I just retired my trusty S3 btw.

[MJZiggy]

I'm not retiring it, but I want to be able to blow up the prints. My S3 stays in my briefcase.

[Guiness]

'boyfriend' and 'camera' raised in the same post?

Should we be monitoring your facebook page for interesting developments?

[MJZiggy]

'boyfriend' and 'camera' raised in the same post?

Should we be monitoring your facebook page for interesting developments?

'Utah' and 'camera' go hand in hand. Those who know my facebook page can attest to its dreariness.

[Scott Campbell]

So I read a little more of the details of Ben's case. It seems that the young woman was wearing a pin that said "I Like To Fuck". Explaining that to a jury probably would present some challenges.

[Tarlam!]

You read this from a reliable source? Can you share which??

Never-the-less, unless she was wearing a badge that said ILTF Everyone, Anytime or, more specifically, QBs, I don't see that as a game breaker.

Even if she was the town bike and everyone rode her, she still said no. Even if she had 20 buttons on her saying what she liked sexually, she still said no.

To give her the benefit of the doubt, maybe some one put it on her and she was just too drunk to care.

When mini skirts first appeared they were used in rape defenses. Any woman wearing such a skimpy garment was inviting herself to be raped.

[Scott Campbell]

It was ridiculously stupid of her to wear. It also removes a lot of doubt about her level of promiscuity.

But that doesn't mean that she deserved to get raped, or that Ben deserved to get away with it. IMO.

http://www.wpxi.com/news/23170139/detail.html

"Many of the witness statements offer contradictory versions of events, but everyone seems to agree Roethlisberger's involvement with the young woman began at Velvet Elvis at about midnight when he noticed a tag the accuser wore on her dress that suggested she was willing to engage in sexual intercourse.

At one point, according to the accuser's friend Victoria Garofalo, the quarterback looked at the pin and said that he liked to "(expletive) girls." Another Steelers player, offensive lineman Willie Colon, told authorities that women were going "nutty" for the quarterback."




I read on another site that that tag said "I like to fuck". While it doesn't change my view of the matter, it might have weighed on the girl's and the DA's decision not to move forward with prosecution.

[pbmax]

It was ridiculously stupid of her to wear. It also removes a lot of doubt about her level of promiscuity.

But that doesn't mean that she deserved to get raped, or that Ben deserved to get away with it. IMO.

http://www.wpxi.com/news/23170139/detail.html

"Many of the witness statements offer contradictory versions of events, but everyone seems to agree Roethlisberger's involvement with the young woman began at Velvet Elvis at about midnight when he noticed a tag the accuser wore on her dress that suggested she was willing to engage in sexual intercourse.

At one point, according to the accuser's friend Victoria Garofalo, the quarterback looked at the pin and said that he liked to "(expletive) girls." Another Steelers player, offensive lineman Willie Colon, told authorities that women were going "nutty" for the quarterback."




I read on another site that that tag said "I like to fuck". While it doesn't change my view of the matter, it might have weighed on the girl's and the DA's decision not to move forward with prosecution.

This claim was up at PFT for a while in the comments (only it was a necklace in that version that said "Down To F**K") but when called to verify the claim, they took the comments referencing it down. There was another version of the story told that Colon said the girl told him her nickname was DTF. So I think its safe to say whatever the genesis of the info, it has morphed into a tall tale now.

[Scott Campbell]

Again, that kind of thing has to pose challenges to the prosecution.

[pbmax]

The report says:

Another sorority sister, Victoria Garofalo, recalled that the alleged victim was wearing a name tag with the initials "DTF." The tag--which the woman had received at a birthday party earlier that evening--was the subject of an inside joke between the students. When Roethlisberger asked about the initials, "Garofalo explained that 'DTF' stood for 'down to fuck' and that it referred to a joke between" the women.

"I'm not down to fuck, but I like to fuck girls," Roethlisberger replied, according to a police report.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0415101roethlisberger1.html

[Scott Campbell]

The report says:

Another sorority sister, Victoria Garofalo, recalled that the alleged victim was wearing a name tag with the initials "DTF." The tag--which the woman had received at a birthday party earlier that evening--was the subject of an inside joke between the students. When Roethlisberger asked about the initials, "Garofalo explained that 'DTF' stood for 'down to fuck' and that it referred to a joke between" the women.

"I'm not down to fuck, but I like to fuck girls," Roethlisberger replied, according to a police report.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...isberger1.html

I did a web search on DTF to find out just how much of an "inside" joke it is.

[pbmax]

Using threats and intimidation to get sex is sexual violence.
"My partner threatened to break up with me if we didn't have sex soon, so I just went along with it even though I didn't want to."

Anyone that willingly caves into this kind of pressure has some serious issues. It does not fit what I would define as sexual violence.

Why must there be violence for there to be a crime of rape? This is an odd notion. Rape is about consent. Violence is one manner to avoid obtaining consent, but not the only method. Is a robbery committed while the home's owners are drinking not a robbery? Is it only a robbery if the thief has a gun?

There are usually differing levels of sexual assault charges. The use of violence puts you in greater degree of jeopardy than if no violence occurred. But both crimes would still be rape.

[pbmax]

The report says:

Another sorority sister, Victoria Garofalo, recalled that the alleged victim was wearing a name tag with the initials "DTF." The tag--which the woman had received at a birthday party earlier that evening--was the subject of an inside joke between the students. When Roethlisberger asked about the initials, "Garofalo explained that 'DTF' stood for 'down to fuck' and that it referred to a joke between" the women.

"I'm not down to fuck, but I like to fuck girls," Roethlisberger replied, according to a police report.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...isberger1.html

I did a web search on DTF to find out just how much of an "inside" joke it is.

Apparently it was an inside joke to Roethlisberger.

[Scott Campbell]

Using threats and intimidation to get sex is sexual violence.
"My partner threatened to break up with me if we didn't have sex soon, so I just went along with it even though I didn't want to."

Anyone that willingly caves into this kind of pressure has some serious issues. It does not fit what I would define as sexual violence.

Why must there be violence for there to be a crime of rape? This is an odd notion. Rape is about consent.

In this case I think it depends on what specifically "just went along with it" meant. If a woman puts up less of a fight without offering consent then that is rape. If a woman or man says yes out their own fear of being broken up with, then they made that choice. If they allow themselves to be influenced by someone who says they don't intend to stay involved with somebody that won't put out, then that's on them. The man or woman using such a "threat" may be a scumbag, but I don't believe they've crossed what should be a legal threshold of sexual violence. The prudent response when someone threatens abandonment absent the consent for sex is to take them up on the offer.

If someone is threatened physically or manipulated by threats of extortion, then that is rape.

IMO

[pbmax]

This post retracted. I see the source of much of the confusion. The Guidelines list everything as Sexual Violence.

In that case, I would say that university guidelines have more to do with the safety and conduct of the students than they do with the law. The difference between what you should consider acceptable versus what you are legally required to do (or not do). I though Scott was classifying all rape as requiring violence. My bad.