Questions on Rape - continuing the Ben thread

[Scott Campbell]

I thought your retracted post brought up some good discussion points.

[Scott Campbell]

In that case, I would say that university guidelines have more to do with the safety and conduct of the students than they do with the law.

I think those guidelines do a real disservice to the seriousness of violent rape by lumping it in with a bunch of more marginal offenses.

[Scott Campbell]

The report says:

Another sorority sister, Victoria Garofalo, recalled that the alleged victim was wearing a name tag with the initials "DTF." The tag--which the woman had received at a birthday party earlier that evening--was the subject of an inside joke between the students. When Roethlisberger asked about the initials, "Garofalo explained that 'DTF' stood for 'down to fuck' and that it referred to a joke between" the women.

"I'm not down to fuck, but I like to fuck girls," Roethlisberger replied, according to a police report.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...isberger1.html

I did a web search on DTF to find out just how much of an "inside" joke it is.

Apparently it was an inside joke to Roethlisberger.

I guess my point is that I don't buy the inside joke explanation. It looked like a pretty lame excuse for adorning a widely accepted acronym for "easy ho". Maybe that's the story those girls needed to feed their parents.

And I don't say that to justify what happened. It absolutely does NOT justify rape. But it couldn't have made the case any easier to prosecute.

[Tarlam!]

But it couldn't have made the case any easier to prosecute.

I see your point and while I don't want you to misunstand this as disagreeing, I would say by not putting the case in front of a jury, it's kinda mandating that girls conduct themselves in a certain manner to enjoy the full protection of the law.

If I am the DA, I take into account the contuct of all involve prior, during and post-incident. She had me on her side when it was disclosed she sought out the first police car she could find.

Woman accustomed to frequent sex with men they get to know in bars probably aren't prone to reacting that way.

[Freak Out]

So when does the commissar drop the suspension hammer on the fucker?

How many games will we see Charlie Batch starting?

Wait...is he even in the League?

[Joemailman]

It won't be before the draft.

[Scott Campbell]

It won't be before the draft.

Florio thinks it will be tomorrow.

[MJZiggy]

Goodell refused to say. Apparently he has no set timeline and can drop the boom whenever he feels like it, but the Steelers thought it would be next week.

Not to be political but to show how far some of these lines of thinking can go, a cleric in Iran predicted that a major earthquake was going to hit Tehran because the women were dressing too immodestly and that's what causes earthquakes because they rile all the men up and cause infidelity. Nice that the guys have no personal responsibility. The women cause the infidelity because their headscarves are revealing too much hair and they're not wearing their burkas.

By the way, the DTF tags are kind of a novelty gag popular with the kids these days. I see them in stores.

[Scott Campbell]

Goodell refused to say. Apparently he has no set timeline and can drop the boom whenever he feels like it, but the Steelers thought it would be next week.

Not to be political but to show how far some of these lines of thinking can go, a cleric in Iran predicted that a major earthquake was going to hit Tehran because the women were dressing too immodestly and that's what causes earthquakes because they rile all the men up and cause infidelity. Nice that the guys have no personal responsibility. The women cause the infidelity because their headscarves are revealing too much hair and they're not wearing their burkas.

By the way, the DTF tags are kind of a novelty gag popular with the kids these days. I see them in stores.

If I catch one of my daughters wearing one, they'll be Dead Till Further notice.

[RashanGary]

I'm not so certain Ben raped this girl.


I'd say she went in there feelin sexy, being sexy. She even wore the, "down to fuck" pin and everything. She got brought into the VIP section with Ben. Going out with the "down to fuck" pin, looking hot. . . I think it's safe to say she liked the attention. She probably liked it even more from such a famous, rich guy like Ben. . .

I think there's a good chance Ben doesn't really understand these girls very well. He's taking the, "down to fuck" thing literally. It's a bit of a joke. . . There is that little game, of teetering on safe fun that we play with sex. It's fun to grind against a really awesome football player and know that he's really into you and feel really hot and sexy about it and have the whole, "down to fuck" tag and everything. It's not nearly as fun when he takes you up on it and it goes from, "teetering, safe fun to, oh shit, we're alone and he wants to do what I've been leading him on to do all night".

I can picture a rape happening here, but I can also picture her leading him on. Him taking her up on it. Her feeling obligated, but half heartedly resisting. Him being persuasive. Her going along because she felt obligated and then when he just ditched her ass in a bathroom feeling disgusting, she felt raped. I don't know exactly what happened here, it could have gone either way, but depending on what evidence you give most credit to, there are a few scenerios that could have happened here and none more likely than the other.

I think Ben is a creep. I don't know, based on this story, that he's a rapist, although it's very possible. I'm just not going to judge him that way because if I was in his shoes and I didn't do it, it sure wouldn't be fair. I'd be OK with any suspension, even up to life, for the things he's been involved in. I woudln't be OK with prison, jail or any crime based on just this.

[MJZiggy]

I'm not so certain Ben raped this girl.


I'd say she went in there feelin sexy, being sexy. She even wore the, "down to fuck" pin and everything. She got brought into the VIP section with Ben. Going out with the "down to fuck" pin, looking hot. . . I think it's safe to say she liked the attention. She probably liked it even more from such a famous, rich guy like Ben. . .

I think there's a good chance Ben doesn't really understand these girls very well. He's taking the, "down to fuck" thing literally. It's a bit of a joke. . . There is that little game, of teetering on safe fun that we play with sex. It's fun to grind against a really awesome football player and know that he's really into you and feel really hot and sexy about it and have the whole, "down to fuck" tag and everything. It's not nearly as fun when he takes you up on it and it goes from, "teetering, safe fun to, oh shit, we're alone and he wants to do what I've been leading him on to do all night".

I can picture a rape happening here, but I can also picture her leading him on. Him taking her up on it. Her feeling obligated, but half heartedly resisting. Him being persuasive. Her going along because she felt obligated and then when he just ditched her ass in a bathroom feeling disgusting, she felt raped. I don't know exactly what happened here, it could have gone either way, but depending on what evidence you give most credit to, there are a few scenerios that could have happened here and none more likely than the other.

I think Ben is a creep. I don't know, based on this story, that he's a rapist, although it's very possible. I'm just not going to judge him that way because if I was in his shoes and I didn't do it, it sure wouldn't be fair. I'd be OK with any suspension, even up to life, for the things he's been involved in. I woudln't be OK with prison, jail or any crime based on just this.

Three words killed your post. "half heartedly resisting" End of story right there. The scenario you just laid out is by law rape.

[Scott Campbell]

Three words killed your post. "half heartedly resisting" End of story right there. The scenario you just laid out is by law rape.

Agreed.

I can understand how some might feel that it's a gray area, but it's not. It's black and white.

[MichiganPackerFan]

If there is no suspension, or legal charges, I say once every few downs, his OL simply steps aside and lets an opposing DL or LB tee off on him.

[Tarlam!]

Well, I like:

that the media keeps rubbing his nose in it by continuing the topic.
that Goodell is using salami tactics in dealing with it, which keeps him guessing ie. in his conciousness.
that his teamates are reportedly pissed at him for bringing the distractions to their ball club, yet again.
that the Rooneys are livid and he must be feeling insecure about his mid term future.
that his stock is way down with all 32 teams and if he is allowed to remain in the NFL that next blockbuster deal won't be a blockbuster deal at all.
that he's clinically dead for any corporations that once used him as a media representative, which must cost him millions.
that the fans are reportedly upset and he probably doesn't get to go out in public there much these days.

I don't like that he'll never face 12 peers in a trial and the consequences of his actions for the victim.

[RashanGary]

Well, this girl has changed her stories. Pressure and rape are two different things.

A guy saying he'll break up if he doesn't get sex is pressure.

Threatening to harm one's child, job, financial situation would be rape to me.




Saying, "It's OK" and going forward, after being lead on all night. . . He obviously lacks respect for her and seemingly all women, but if she's like, "OK, have sex with me" after that, I don't know, that's not rape to me.

She got taken advantage of, treated worse than any person should allow another person to treat them, but the fact remains, there's a good chance she allowed that, even if she regretted it, even if she had to be puressured into it.

I understand the, "no means no" thing, but this is a shade of gray, he said, she said. . . And just reading through the story, I'd tend to lean toward what he said although even at best, he's still a piece of shit, just not a violent sex criminal.

It's goign to be popular to side against the evil man and for the girl becuase so many have had horrific rape and it's easier to empathize, but I'm not so sure it's all sowed up here. The courts didn't think so and whether she presses charges or not, the court absolutely will if they have enough evidence to. That is completely beside the point here.