I'm not planning an exit!

[Patler]

Just to be clear, the only reason I have considered other boards is my impression that this board is dying. The only things that need to change are bringing in new blood and encouraging some of the dearly departed to return. <snip> I just don't like feeling that I am be jerked around or toyed with. I know that wasn't the intent, but I don't think I am the only one who feels that way.

Did I procrastinate making changes? To quote our former VP candidate, "YOU BETCHA". In hindsight, I think it might be a good thing but there was certainly no forethought. Was I "jerking you around"? No, surely not intentionally anyhow, but I did go through a period of time where I didn't care whether or not it ever got fixed. I probably should have explained that, but, at the time, I didn't want to listen to the comments so I stayed quiet.

I'm glad that we aren't out there in the search engines right now. We didn't really have anything attractive to offer anyone to sign up, except a bunch of drama.

New blood will follow once we have changes to the home page, and get listed in the search engines. But from my perspective, that's only a small part of it.

The real attraction comes from the posters. If you all post quality analysis, and quality opinion, that is what will drive folks to this site and make it a destination again. What I can provide is relatively minor. I think you guys drive the traffic flow here. It either becomes an attractive place to spend time or an unattractive place to spend time.

Until very recently, and for the past year, I don't think you guys have had much to offer and I believe that is the biggest reason folks have wandered away.

Some will never come back, and some probably will.

I have quoted your entire reply to my post.
I have made no changes in it, other than bolding, which I will discuss below.

I believe there is a common theme in your reply to my post, which is that the major problem here is us, the posters. I believe the sentences I have highlighted in bold text support my opinion. I think that you should see that, save for the last, single sentence paragraph, every paragraph in your reply to me focused on shifting the blame for your actions or inactions to us, the posters. Perhaps I am wrong in that interpretation, but never the less, all your comments came back toward us.

Now I could offer comments on your replies to other posters' postings, but I don't see the value in that when you provided a direct response to one of my posts. I believe it is more productive to keep my replies to your response to my original post. That way, you and I can have a discussion about specific issues.

[Administrator]

Patler, I think now I understand.

My responses last night were designed to be taken as a composite whole, that's why I went to the effort to past quotes and comments into a single post. At the same time, I wanted to address individual points that were important to particular posters.

Just because I didn't mention my responsibilities in the context of the reply to you doesn't mean that they aren't relevant. I do not believe that you can read the entire post and come away with a singular perspective that I believe the forum responsible.

I do believe that the forum shares responsibility for the state we're in today. I also believe that I did not follow through on what I said I would do, and I also bear responsibility.

It is also my opinion that if we weren't in google search, and we didn't have a home page, but had great discussion, folks would find us and stay. I further believe that if we had a great home page, the top ranked google search, and crappy discussion full of infighting, folks would easily find us and then almost immediately leave. I would clearly prefer situation 1 if I had to choose, others may not. Hope that puts my overall message into context.

[mraynrand]

It is also my opinion that if we weren't in google search, and we didn't have a home page, but had great discussion, folks would find us and stay. I further believe that if we had a great home page, the top ranked google search, and crappy discussion full of infighting, folks would easily find us and then almost immediately leave. I would clearly prefer situation 1 if I had to choose, others may not. Hope that puts my overall message into context.

You've set up a strawman argument here in a sense. Who wouldn't prefer choice 1 over choice 2? The truth is Packerrats has great discussion and infighting. The combination of a great homepage, easy linkage, a strong moderating presence and reasonable, simple rules (Harlan?) would result in an exciting dynamic page. As with anything else, you get out what you put in. Garbage in, garbage out.

Right now, the attraction of Packerrats - the only attraction - are the quality posters, almost exclusively in the Packer forum. I mean Patler, Harv, PBmax, Fritz, and others like them. I can list off at least 5 other forums that currently provide what you provide (and more). What exactly are you providing? What do you intend to provide in the future? What would you like from us? What do you expect/demand of us? How can we move forward and get out of this rut?

[Freak Out]

It is also my opinion that if we weren't in google search, and we didn't have a home page, but had great discussion, folks would find us and stay. I further believe that if we had a great home page, the top ranked google search, and crappy discussion full of infighting, folks would easily find us and then almost immediately leave. I would clearly prefer situation 1 if I had to choose, others may not. Hope that puts my overall message into context.

You've set up a strawman argument here in a sense. Who wouldn't prefer choice 1 over choice 2? The truth is Packerrats has great discussion and infighting. The combination of a great homepage, easy linkage, a strong moderating presence and reasonable, simple rules (Harlan?) would result in an exciting dynamic page. As with anything else, you get out what you put in. Garbage in, garbage out.

Right now, the attraction of Packerrats - the only attraction - are the quality posters, almost exclusively in the Packer forum. I mean Patler, Harv, PBmax, Fritz, and others like them. I can list off at least 5 other forums that currently provide what you provide (and more). What exactly are you providing? What do you intend to provide in the future? What would you like from us? What do you expect/demand of us? How can we move forward and get out of this rut?

[red]

i think a lot of the infighter or the deterioration of the content has to do with the fact that many of us have been together for many years, in same cases as many as 7 or 8 years. we already know what each other is thinking and we've already discussed the same topics over and over again numerous times. thats why we absolutely have to have new blood, to add something new to the mix

you don't have to do everything now. just fix the log-in and registration, and get a simple home page up and running so people can find us on a search engine.

if things then start to pick up and turn around then do the other things you have in mind.

if that doesn't work, then this site will continue to die a very slow death.

keeping things the way they are now is not going to improve anything, and really doesn't give anyone any reason to invest much time here

[red]

and where exactly is all this infighting and crappy posting? i don't see it.

i see things that every forum has. except there's only like 10 people taking part in everything

[sheepshead]

Joe,

I dont think you have the correct demeanor and/or life experience for an open forum like this.

[CaptainKickass]

Joe Admin -

I appreciate your compliment, and your wish that I post more often. I come here for entertainment, information, and questions that others think of that I had not thought of. In that order.

Historically - I post more often when I have more time. It comes and goes with the demands on my life, and of course with the football season.

Contributing to this place is a completely voluntary act and on my terms - basically when I feel like it. Anything else - again on a voluntary basis - involves added responsibility. Write an article, do an analysis, run some numbers for stats, review a game - once, monthly, weekly whatever it is - I would feel compelled to meet a deadline or deliver on a promise, something I'm not currently willing to do for this place because I have no real vested interest.

You'll either make this place into your vision of what you want - or you won't. I'll be fine either way. So will everyone else. What I wouldn't do in your shoes is cater to the requests of the people that post here because - as you've already pointed out - you get a bunch of mixed messages and feedback about this that or the other. I'm not saying folks won't have good suggestions, but you can't make anyone happy. I repeat: You can't make anyone happy.

If you're good with how this site is, leave it be. If you want it to be different, change it the way you want. Do it all yourself, the way you want it. If it takes you a long time - so what? Do it the way you feel is correct. I'd be curious to see it as a finished creation based solely on your vision.

[MJZiggy]

Joe Admin -


If you're good with how this site is, leave it be. If you want it to be different, change it the way you want. Do it all yourself, the way you want it. If it takes you a long time - so what? Do it the way you feel is correct. I'd be curious to see it as a finished creation based solely on your vision.

While I think this was a good post, the problem with this little bit is that as I understand what Joe wants from this place, one person (with any kind of life) can't do that alone. It takes contributions from those who do have an interest.

[CaptainKickass]

Joe Admin -


If you're good with how this site is, leave it be. If you want it to be different, change it the way you want. Do it all yourself, the way you want it. If it takes you a long time - so what? Do it the way you feel is correct. I'd be curious to see it as a finished creation based solely on your vision.

While I think this was a good post, the problem with this little bit is that as I understand what Joe wants from this place, one person (with any kind of life) can't do that alone. It takes contributions from those who do have an interest.

I agree with you Zig. The spirit of my post was just for Joe to do it his way on his own terms, with a nod to the old adage "If you want something done right - you do it yourself".

[MadtownPacker]

What the fuck is all this shit?? You sory MFers are talking about leaving?? Oh fuck no, Joe what is going on?

Joe, this place cant die, thats not what we agreed to. Check it out, I am gonna be off work for the next few weeks, let me help you out man. I dont know about vbulletein shit but I didnt know about PHPBB either and got it to work good enough. Call me I can still be reached at the same number,

[Little Whiskey]

Check it out, I am gonna be off work for the next few weeks,

Call me I can still be reached at the same number,

I thought your phone service got cut off?

and what do you mean your off work? this is harvest time. get your ass up here and start picking apples!

[SkinBasket]

What the fuck is all this shit?? You sory MFers are talking about leaving?? Oh fuck no, Joe what is going on?

If you could read American English, you would know that no one's planning to leave, thus the title of the thread. But people sure seem to be getting bored of waiting for nothing to happen, and with the broken homepage, broken link to the forum, nonexistent search results, and broken registration all being factors in the past 2 years or whatever it's been now, it's obvious the membership is suffering, and not for lack of poster content - in my opinion.

[red]

What the fuck is all this shit?? You sory MFers are talking about leaving?? Oh fuck no, Joe what is going on?

Joe, this place cant die, thats not what we agreed to. Check it out, I am gonna be off work for the next few weeks, let me help you out man. I dont know about vbulletein shit but I didnt know about PHPBB either and got it to work good enough. Call me I can still be reached at the same number,

no, we weren't allowed to talk about leaving

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=21060

good to see you back mad, and thanks for offering to help turn things around. as you can see, we're a complete fucking mess

[Scott Campbell]

Today was one of the most active days I've ever seen here. And then it wasn't.