What Are You People Thinking?

[3irty1]

So, if you guys don't believe me, believe Pattler. Never ever use salt in a dry rub or marinade. EVER!

Tarlam, I'm sorry but this is just bad advice. An 8:3:1:1 is a textbook ratio for pork cooked at low temperature, the three being salt. Curing the surface slightly of the meat so a crust (called "bark" forms). When barbecuing pork shoulder to make pulled pork, the bark is called "Mr. Brown," and the interior meat is called, "Miss White." These are well known techniques that are used everywhere by professionals that directly conflict with your advice.

Patler, using a rub as a marinade, leaving it overnight does very little as the most penetration a seasoning will get without any osmosis is 1/4". Every pro I've ever worked with leaves it for about an hour tops.

[Patler]

So, if you guys don't believe me, believe Pattler. Never ever use salt in a dry rub or marinade. EVER!

Tarlam, I'm sorry but this is just bad advice. An 8:3:1:1 is a textbook ratio for pork cooked at low temperature, the three being salt. Curing the surface slightly of the meat so a crust (called "bark" forms). When barbecuing pork shoulder to make pulled pork, the bark is called "Mr. Brown," and the interior meat is called, "Miss White." These are well known techniques that are used everywhere by professionals that directly conflict with your advice.

Patler, using a rub as a marinade, leaving it overnight does very little as the most penetration a seasoning will get without any osmosis is 1/4". Every pro I've ever worked with leaves it for about an hour tops.

Salt is completely unnecessary to form bark. I never have a problem getting a nice crust. Heck, you can develop a smoky bark without a rub, depending on how you use a mop sauce. My pulled pork and rib technique came directly from a Midwest barbeque champ too, who has been a pro chef specializing in grilled foods for 30 years, and he got it from a guy who has several very popular books out. He always puts his rub on the night before, and yes it does make a difference, because I have used both long and short residence times. The turbinado sugar helps because it brings moisture to the surface but will go back in taking flavor with it.

BUT, as I said - cooking is really all just opinion. You have yours and I have mine. Yours works for you, mine works for me, and I bet if we each made ours on a good day, a crowd would like both. And it is even worse in grilling than in other preparations. Heck, people can't even agree if ribs should be wet or dry, and if wet, sauced on the grill or after. They are all different and all good.

As I said, just my opinion.

[Patler]

So, if you guys don't believe me, believe Pattler. Never ever use salt in a dry rub or marinade. EVER!

Tarlam, I'm sorry but this is just bad advice. An 8:3:1:1 is a textbook ratio for pork cooked at low temperature, the three being salt. Curing the surface slightly of the meat so a crust (called "bark" forms). When barbecuing pork shoulder to make pulled pork, the bark is called "Mr. Brown," and the interior meat is called, "Miss White." These are well known techniques that are used everywhere by professionals that directly conflict with your advice.

Patler, using a rub as a marinade, leaving it overnight does very little as the most penetration a seasoning will get without any osmosis is 1/4". Every pro I've ever worked with leaves it for about an hour tops.

You know, I got to thinking this through, and there are two differences in our rub thoughts and the combination explains why yours works for you and mine works for me.

You rub using a lot of salt and cook soon. Salt is not going to dry your meat in such a short time. I prepare and rub the night before using little to no salt. With my rubs, it does make a difference if you let it sit for an hour, or eight. I know that to be true, because I have done it both ways.

Now if I had a lot of salt in my rub, like yours, leaving it on longer would do little, because the salt would dry out the surface, skinning it over and getting no further benefit. In fact, with a lot of rub, it would probably dry out the meat more than either of us would want.

That's why yours works for you, and mine works for me. We each use a rub best suited to the way we use it.

[3irty1]

So, if you guys don't believe me, believe Pattler. Never ever use salt in a dry rub or marinade. EVER!

Tarlam, I'm sorry but this is just bad advice. An 8:3:1:1 is a textbook ratio for pork cooked at low temperature, the three being salt. Curing the surface slightly of the meat so a crust (called "bark" forms). When barbecuing pork shoulder to make pulled pork, the bark is called "Mr. Brown," and the interior meat is called, "Miss White." These are well known techniques that are used everywhere by professionals that directly conflict with your advice.

Patler, using a rub as a marinade, leaving it overnight does very little as the most penetration a seasoning will get without any osmosis is 1/4". Every pro I've ever worked with leaves it for about an hour tops.

Salt is completely unnecessary to form bark. I never have a problem getting a nice crust. Heck, you can develop a smoky bark without a rub, depending on how you use a mop sauce. My pulled pork and rib technique came directly from a Midwest barbeque champ too, who has been a pro chef specializing in grilled foods for 30 years, and he got it from a guy who has several very popular books out. He always puts his rub on the night before, and yes it does make a difference, because I have used both long and short residence times. The turbinado sugar helps because it brings moisture to the surface but will go back in taking flavor with it.

BUT, as I said - cooking is really all just opinion. You have yours and I have mine. Yours works for you, mine works for me, and I bet if we each made ours on a good day, a crowd would like both. And it is even worse in grilling than in other preparations. Heck, people can't even agree if ribs should be wet or dry, and if wet, sauced on the grill or after. They are all different and all good.

As I said, just my opinion.

If you don't mind sharing secrets, PM me your technique and maybe I'll learn something. I'm not advocating any single way to do anything. As you say, its largely opinion a BBQ is a funky art. I simply disagree with the idea that salt should "never ever" be used in a dry rub and that people do it enough to have terminology for it.

[Tarlam!]

Look, it's just a fact of life that salt was once used to preserve meats, fish etc. Why? Because it absorbs moisture.

Salt, therefore, should ever be added until just prior to cooking. It's one of the first things we learn at chef school. Salt drys. Period.

[3irty1]

Look, it's just a fact of life that salt was once used to preserve meats, fish etc. Why? Because it absorbs moisture.

Salt, therefore, should ever be added until just prior to cooking. It's one of the first things we learn at chef school. Salt drys. Period.

You keep saying that salt was once used to preserve food as if that's making your case in some way. Yes salt was used to preserve food--food that people then ate because you're wrong and it wasn't ruined. People also used to preserve food by making confit which is still popular at least in haute cuisine.

Also to preserve something by salt curing it takes much much much more than is contained in the 8:3:1;1 proposed rib rub above. This is not the same. Yes salt draws the moisture out of food. In many scenarios this is desirable and thus you should "never ever" say "never ever." I'm also a trained cook and although they no doubt taught you the properties of salt, I'm skeptical that they taught you your broad statement earlier that you should never ever use salt in a rub. That advice conflicts with so much as I've stated before.

[Tarlam!]

Curing, say ham, is a totally different animal than dry brubbing ribs. Do you put salt in a coq au vin marinade? NO! Salt dries. It's just a fact of life.

[Joemailman]

Sounds like we need to have a Posters Game next year. You guys can have a cookoff before the game.

[SkinBasket]

Sounds like we need to have a Posters Game next year. You guys can have a cookoff before the game.

Food Battle: Salt! Begin!

[3irty1]

Curing, say ham, is a totally different animal than dry brubbing ribs. Do you put salt in a coq au vin marinade? NO! Salt dries. It's just a fact of life.

Coq Au Vin is made with a tough old rooster and the purpose of the wine marinade is to break down the old meat with the acid in the wine. Since the purpose of that marinade isn't to season you are right, I would omit the salt. If I wasn't using a rooster then I wouldn't marinade anything Julia Child style. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't EVER put salt in a marinade/rub. A brine is a marinade and by definition is loaded with salt. More importantly salt is completely appropriate in a rib rub.

[retailguy]

This thread inspired me to put another 20lbs of pork butt on the grill. I seasoned it up last night, wrapped it in plastic, and put it in the fridge overnight.

This morning, bright and early, I got up and got the meat on the grill with some hickory chips at 7:15am at 225.... I have buns all ready to go, buttered and ready for toasting.

I did not leave out the salt, and the meat will not be dry.

My biggest worry? Whether to use my homemade Kansas City red bbq sauce, my Carolina mustard/vinegar based bbq sauce, or to eat 'em nekkid....

Damn it's gonna be good.... 10 hours on the grill, about an hour to go...

CAN'T WAIT!!!

[Little Whiskey]

Coq Au Vin is made with a tough old rooster

could you also say it is made with a tough old cock? if thats the case, you can keep your coq au vin or what ever the hell you call it! sounds to me like it could use some salt

[Little Whiskey]

I'm using retail's stolen bbq rub tonight on some ribs. they've been on the grill since about 1:30 this afternoon. Its about 6:30 now. they've still got more to go. I'll let you know how they are. Thank God the pack play monday night.

[mraynrand]

This thread inspired me to put another 20lbs of pork butt on the grill.

Get your ass off the grill!

[Little Whiskey]

just finished my ribs. I was a hero! they are still singing my praises. I think songs and legends are going to be written about me.

FYI Tar, even cooking these ribs for 6hrs and using the directed amount of salt they were not dry at all! the other ingredients must help to lock in the moisture. DAMN these were good ribs!