Paying Taxes

[mraynrand]

Some f-er from the IRS gets on the radio and says that filling out tax forms is "One of the greatest examples of voluntary compliance. People pay their taxes on time because they know it's the right thing to do."

What a tool. Everyone has already paid tons of taxes in the insidious automatic payroll withdrawals. People fill out their returns because they want (some of) their money back or they know they'll get fined or thrown in the slammer is they don't pay taxes due. If they could get Capone, they can get you. That f-er from the IRS can go to hell.

[SkinBasket]

Imagine a world with a fair tax system, based on what an individual consumes, not what they produce. Imagine a world without the IRS. The savings from virtually eliminating the need for the IRS would probably warrant the switch alone.

Of course, old white people with lots of money would be lynched by the poor unwashed masses for not giving enough of their personal wealth to them.

Then again, we wouldn't have to pay for old people's health care anymore.

[Tarlam!]

Imagine a world with a fair tax system, based on what an individual consumes, not what they produce. Imagine a world without the IRS. The savings from virtually eliminating the need for the IRS would probably warrant the switch alone.

Of course, old white people with lots of money would be lynched by the poor unwashed masses for not giving enough of their personal wealth to them.

Then again, we wouldn't have to pay for old people's health care anymore.

Have you ever run numbers on this model? The reason it doesn't work is because the unwashed masses couldn't afford to buy anything anymore. So they'd steal. Unless you free basic 0foodstuffs and non alcholic basic beverages. Then they could eat, but they couldn't afford to clothe themselves.

I agree with your principle thought. I don't believe there is any such thing as a fair tax system.

[Freak Out]

Did the fuckers leave you enough to buy movie tickets today?

[mraynrand]

Did the fuckers leave you enough to buy movie tickets today?

I bought out an entire theater to watch Atlas Shrugged with all my friends. You don't know how empty a theater is when there are only two people in it....

[mraynrand]

Have you ever run numbers on this model? The reason it doesn't work is because the unwashed masses couldn't afford to buy anything anymore. So they'd steal. Unless you free basic 0foodstuffs and non alcholic basic beverages. Then they could eat, but they couldn't afford to clothe themselves.

I agree with your principle thought. I don't believe there is any such thing as a fair tax system.

The fair tax - or national sales tax - as it's been promoted, would have an exemption for spending up to a certain level. The Feds would actually send you a check, based on your income, to cover your spending on essential items, up to a certain level. Other than that, you'd get taxed to hell. Buy a Yacht for 150 million? Pay 15-30 million in tax. Buy a car for 30K, pay 3-6K in tax. Buy a box of delicious, politically incorrect, Little Debbie Zebra cakes for $1.50, pay 15 to 30 cents in tax.

[swede]

Wouldn't you need a new federal organization to catch the rich people trying to escape consumption taxes by trading original Van Gogh's to Paraguayan drug lords for sweet yachts? I assume that representatives from the new IRS would then go on the radio and praise the citizenry for their voluntary compliance with consumption taxes.

[SkinBasket]

Have you ever run numbers on this model? The reason it doesn't work is because the unwashed masses couldn't afford to buy anything anymore. So they'd steal. Unless you free basic 0foodstuffs and non alcholic basic beverages. Then they could eat, but they couldn't afford to clothe themselves.

I agree with your principle thought. I don't believe there is any such thing as a fair tax system.

They can eat all the tax free bugs and roadkill they want for all I care.

Seriously though, if we had an actual free market and a federal government that didn't want to play robin hood for anyone making under 50k a year and waste all our corn making a shitty, horrendously inefficient source of fuel (1200 gallons of water are used to produce 1 gallon of ethanol - now that's green!), the kind of foods that sustain people would be amazingly affordable. But now all the poor people expect their government check to go buy McDonalds. It's their "human right." I mean, who could possibly live on tortillas, beans and rice, right? That's downright torture! And very unAmerican!

The poor people are already stealing. They just use the federal government to do it instead of doing it themselves. They're much better armed.

[mraynrand]

Wouldn't you need a new federal organization to catch the rich people trying to escape consumption taxes by trading original Van Gogh's to Paraguayan drug lords for sweet yachts? I assume that representatives from the new IRS would then go on the radio and praise the citizenry for their voluntary compliance with consumption taxes.

How did they get the Van Gogh in the first place? I had to buy both of mine with U.S. dollars. That's a shitload of tax monies under the fairtax laws...

[Tarlam!]

It all sounds great in theory, but so did the "war" on drugs. The way I was raised (my father served for 5 years as a paratrooper in the French Foreign Legion, and proudly!), people die in wars. There are POWs in wars. There are curfews in occupied territories in wars, if not Marshall law outright. There is certainly a military presence in wars. The pathetic alibi attacks on Columbian drug lords didn't do much to cease the problem, did it?

The fact is, the grey economy of the drug trade is sooooooo damned vital to the continued prosperity of most countries, nobody wants to solve the problem. Just like the tax gained from cigarette smokers is very welcome in most states' coffers.

I saw an interesting docu about China today. The demographics currently have 10% of the population is over 65. By 2050, the number will be 50%. This is due to the "one child" policy. Pensions in China do not cover the cost of living - not by a long shot! Traditionally, sons are charged with taking care of their elders. too bad if you have a daughter, which is why infant mortality is outrageous amongst little girls in China and orphanages are full of girls. The government makes it nearly impossible for non Chinese to adopt, so, they get to rot. The other thing is, there are not enough brides in China for all of the bride grooms. Having been there a number of times, I can tell you, Chinese girls will do almost anything to marry a foreigner, especially if they grew up as orphans.

Anyway, today's generation of Chinese male is going to be responsible for caring for SIX elderly people. Plus himself, his bride and his child. This is a country that will not thrive as a democracy, IMHO. It's already a powder keg and it will blow big time. Since 80% of their workforce live close to the poverty line, they won't have much use for "fairtax".

My message is, unless the hypocrisy in governments the world over comes to a grinding halt it's every (wo)man for him/herself!

[mraynrand]

Anyway, today's generation of Chinese male is going to be responsible for caring for SIX elderly people. Plus himself, his bride and his child. This is a country that will not thrive as a democracy, IMHO. It's already a powder keg and it will blow big time. Since 80% of their workforce live close to the poverty line, they won't have much use for "fairtax".

As you say, it's not a democracy. But so what? What good is a democracy anyway? It depends on the values of the people who populate it. Do you think the Chinese government will let the burden of the elderly stop their 'progress?' I doubt it. Soylent Green - or Yellow or Brown, is pretty easy to whip up, and saves you paying pensions.