The ugly truth

[SkinBasket]

EC has been a great addition. But adding one unique and engaging member while losing several dozen others doesn't bode well long term. Maybe Madtown can take Joe to court in California claiming something about the violation of our human rights. They love that shit out there. See Foreskin Man.

[red]

i thought i was the only one so i didn't want to say anything, but i'm clearly not alone. i use to come to the site 2 or 3 times an hour. now i drop in maybe once every few days just out of habit to see if there is anything new going on. there never is

the no football thing doesn't help matters, but that doesn't seem to be affecting other packer sites.

this site was just left in the desert for dead with no food or water, you could see this coming from a mile away

[retailguy]

Ok, time to come clean.

I was Joe, or better phrased, HALF of Joe. Madtown was the other half. Until 5/20/2011 in the middle of the night, when for inexplicable reasons, Madtown changed the password on the Joe account, and also changed the password on this account. It took me two weeks to figure out how to change it, and then it was just a fluke. I’ve called him once every day since, trying to get an explanation, but as some of you who know Madtown might suspect, those calls have not been returned.

At this point, I really don’t know why he’s done what he did. My best guess is that he intends to ride back in here like the savior on the white horse and save you all from the evil Joe. Just a guess though, I really have no idea what he’s planned. I also have no idea how long this post will last. But for those of you who get to read it, at least you’ll know the truth.

Many of you watched Madtown melt down several years back. Trust me when I tell you, that maintaining this place is a thankless job. He was doing the bulk of it by himself, and burn out doesn’t even come close to describing it. He reached out to me, and we concocted this scheme to keep the place running. At that point, he really couldn’t continue by himself.

I had no interest in the software aspect of this whole thing. I have no idea how to do it, and little to no motivation to learn it. What I was willing to do was to keep accounts activated, read the posts, answer the pm’s & emails and deal with all the administrative bull. Zool has stated on here before what a PITA it is, but it’s necessary, and someone had to do it, and Madtown couldn’t any more.

Let’s face it, there are about a dozen folks here that I couldn’t stand. Complicating things further, they couldn’t stand me either. Putting me in charge of that stuff wouldn’t have worked. So, in came Joe. If you read the bio correctly, you’ll see that it’s a combination of me and Madtown. The posting was 95% me, and the ideas were a conglomeration of both of us, but largely his vision.

Trying to be “partners” with him is the most frustrating experience I’ve ever had. The first year, I largely spend begging him to initially upgrade the software and the old stuff was so outdated it almost didn’t run any longer. Later, it was switched to begging him to implement the new software.

I think we started this in April 2009, I finally gave up and bought the Vbulletin suite myself in December 2009, and then begged him to implement it, finally going live in November 2010.

When you don’t have the password to upload files to the server, there is only so much you can do.

To those of you doubting me at this point, I only ask you to remember how long the homepage was down, and how many months it took to get a link to the forum. Even I could have put a link to the old forum. But if you cannot upload a page to the server, what can you do? Beg. And that’s what I did.

Was I perfect? Oh, hell no. You sit there trying to figure out what to do and there are no clear answers. You’ve got a small group of folks, who are active posters that want to express themselves in any manner they choose. If they want to insult someone and their opinions, well, so be it. If that person doesn’t like it, tough. Then you’ve got another group of folks that want to tell you what they think, any time they choose, with absolutely NO criticism of their opinion regardless of how stupid it might be.

Oil and water. No? You can’t balance that.

So I tried to control it the best I could. Clearly didn’t work either. You create a Favre thread to mitigate the damage, just one example, and get mixed results. Some of the other things I tried, I got no results. Or bad ones.

If you guys recall, I, as Joe, posted a sticky in the Packer forum one day asking those without an account to email me and tell me why they didn’t want to join us. I got 12 replies that all pretty much said the same thing. They were worried that if they offered their opinion, they’d get brutally criticized. 12 isn’t a large sample size, but it was what I had to work with. And there was some legitimacy to that.

Look at the early replies to Waldo56. Brutal. Was the guy always right? Hell no. Was he crazy? No. He was a good poster. We drove him away. Then you read what happened to Woodbuck and Partial. You can certainly say that they brought it on themselves, and that’d be true, but why would you register here? So, I tried to move that stuff to the Garbage Can, or at least the Romper Room. That clearly didn’t work, and that was my decision.

Let’s talk about Partial for a moment. He was my friend. I met him, and liked him. But I banned him. I got pm’s and emails from Madtown for months. “You gotta get rid of him”. “We can’t move on without him”. On and on. I agreed with him, but tried everything I could think of first and finally was left with no other options. Partial was a good guy, but jeez you can only take so much.

So I banned him, WITH MADTOWN’S FULL SUPPORT. I have over 75 emails from partial after I banned him. In the span of 30 days. The vast majority were threatening. I reached out to one member privately and asked what I should do. I got some counsel back from an attorney that this person knew, and got some very good advice, which I implemented and the problem stopped. But now, I read Madtown ask if he should bring him back. I know what happened. That’s why I think he’s trying to come in here as the savior.

Maybe all of you will let him. I have no idea. Maybe he’ll fix what ails this place. I have no idea about that either.

In any event, there are a few folks here that I know, whom I have misled about whether or not I was still involved with Madtown. I apologize to each of you for that. In the end, that’s why Joe didn’t post very much. It was too difficult to keep the personalities separate.

Kudos go out to Justin Harrell, who was the only guy (I believe) to figure it out. I think in the end, Joe talked him out of his opinion, but he got it. Or at least, he was the only one to make the accusation. Congrats Justin. There is one other person who can confirm that what I’ve told you is true. They can speak up if they wish, or forever remain silent. It’s entirely up to them.

My time here is done. Some of you will be happy about that. Enjoy. I’ll miss this place, and miss my involvement in it. At the end of the day, I was just trying to make it better, and keep it going. And I truly loved being here and being a participant. My self assessment is that it didn’t go very well, certainly not as well as I had hoped. Hopefully now that I’m out of the way, it’ll go better.

I’ll answer questions if you have any, until Madtown logs in and sees this and either deletes it or bans the retailguy account. Since I trusted him, I don’t have a backup account so I’ll have no other way to even read this. If this remains but you get no replies, that’s why.

Those of you who have my email address, I invite you to contact me if you wish.

Thanks all.

[Patler]

The End has cometh.
R.I.P. Packerrats.
It was good to have known you.

[red]

wow, just wow. thanks for coming clean RG

yup snoopy, i think you're right

although i can see how mad could completely blow up, it is a thankless job running a site

[SkinBasket]

Well, for fuck's sake, leaving now will just ruin the fun. I don't know why people feel the need to excuse themselves after drama. It's what built this place.

FWIW, I always had the strong suspicion this was the case, just unsure how many people were at the helm, but as long as "Joe" didn't act like a cocksucker, I was fine playing along. But then Joe did kind of act like a cocksucker, no offense. And the place went to shit with the software and the non-updates. In other words, kind of the worst of both halves of Joe. I think we should draw and quarter Joe in the town square.

What it comes down to is that I'm not sure anyone even cares enough to care anymore. There's not enough of us left to care. I just want the motherfucking 12 pound turkey thread back.

Anyway, if Madtown can separate his persona from that of the forum, and not try to play god with everyone's relationships here, I think this place would be fine. Bring back the damned. If they want to be retarded again, then send them away again. What else could happen to this place to make it worse? People came once, they'll come again, if they're allowed to and know the place exists anyway.

Oh, and thanks for being honest retail. It does cast the two of you in a pretty creepy light, but at least you can still call yourself a man. If you really are one, anyway. If not, then I'm sure you're a dandy woman. And I guess you have to get extra credit for liking Partial. That isn't an easy attribute to have ingrained in your soul.

[HowardRoark]

[SkinBasket]

End schmend. This is just another new beginning to a place that rose from the ashes of a burning bag of dog shit. Madtown's obviously crazier than a busload of Venezuelan whores on a week long speed run, but I don't think that matters anymore. Those of us who are left have endured the worst of his inept insanity and he's only more lovable for it.

[retailguy]

Well, for fuck's sake, leaving now will just ruin the fun. I don't know why people feel the need to excuse themselves after drama. It's what built this place.

FWIW, I always had the strong suspicion this was the case, just unsure how many people were at the helm, but as long as "Joe" didn't act like a cocksucker, I was fine playing along. But then Joe did kind of act like a cocksucker, no offense. And the place went to shit with the software and the non-updates. In other words, kind of the worst of both halves of Joe. I think we should draw and quarter Joe in the town square.

What it comes down to is that I'm not sure anyone even cares enough to care anymore. There's not enough of us left to care. I just want the motherfucking 12 pound turkey thread back.

Anyway, if Madtown can separate his persona from that of the forum, and not try to play god with everyone's relationships here, I think this place would be fine. Bring back the damned. If they want to be retarded again, then send them away again. What else could happen to this place to make it worse? People came once, they'll come again, if they're allowed to and know the place exists anyway.

Oh, and thanks for being honest retail. It does cast the two of you in a pretty creepy light, but at least you can still call yourself a man. If you really are one, anyway. If not, then I'm sure you're a dandy woman. And I guess you have to get extra credit for liking Partial. That isn't an easy attribute to have ingrained in your soul.

Let's clarify one thing. I'm not trying to post some kind of goodbye drama. I said goodbye and believe I'm gone, because we both know madtown. You really think he's gonna let me stay? I'd stay if I could. But I doubt that's an option.

I agree with you about a lot of what you said. I screwed up plenty. But so did Madtown. If you don't have software that works well, if you don't have ongoing maintenance, or a homepage that works, you can't be listed in google.

In the end, I feel like I betrayed my friend. But then again, I didn't change the password in the middle of the night, and didn't steadfastly refuse for over 3 weeks to return a phone call. So, I feel bad, but not as bad as I'd feel if I'd been the other guy.

And yes, I'm a guy. Flog me in the town square all you wish. I'm not completely to blame, but I've done my fair share and certainly deserve a flogging.

[SkinBasket]

Let's clarify one thing. I'm not trying to post some kind of goodbye drama. I said goodbye and believe I'm gone, because we both know madtown. You really think he's gonna let me stay? I'd stay if I could. But I doubt that's an option.

I agree with you about a lot of what you said. I screwed up plenty. But so did Madtown. If you don't have software that works well, if you don't have ongoing maintenance, or a homepage that works, you can't be listed in google.

In the end, I feel like I betrayed my friend. But then again, I didn't change the password in the middle of the night, and didn't steadfastly refuse for over 3 weeks to return a phone call. So, I feel bad, but not as bad if I'd feel if I'd been the other guy.

And yes, I'm a guy. Flog me in the town square all you wish. I'm not completely to blame, but I've done my fair share and certainly deserve a flogging.

All I can say is that I believe this place can flourish again if simply left alone for the most part and restored to it's original glory and principles. We won't get everyone back, but there's an astounding number of people who still come here simply for each other's company, both friendly and adversarial. With a few new folks every now and again, we would be just as well off as any other place. Better once we get some folks into the tits and ass room.

However, If madtown murders you or your online persona, I firmly believe I won't be alone in finally abandoning this place and finding a feminine hygiene forum to contribute to. If he has any sense left in that pot addled head, he'll use this as a chance to return to our roots instead of a chance to burn the place to the ground out of spite. And yes, that means allowing pictures of lesbians kissing in the romper room.

[Patler]

And yes, that means allowing pictures of lesbians kissing in the romper room.

How about pictures of lesbians kissing in the kitchen or in the bedroom?. Should those be allowed, too?

[Patler]

Ok, time to come clean.

I was Joe, or better phrased, HALF of Joe. Madtown was the other half.

I, for one, am appalled and insulted that someone would come on here and pretend to be someone else. How low can you stoop?

Signed:

Shamrockfan, er... I mean Patler!

[red]

I, for one, am appalled and insulted that someone would come on here and pretend to be someone else. How low can you stoop?

Signed:

Shamrockfan, er... I mean Patler!

oh quit with all the bullshit, tank

[retailguy]

All I can say is that I believe this place can flourish again if simply left alone for the most part and restored to it's original glory and principles. We won't get everyone back, but there's an astounding number of people who still come here simply for each other's company, both friendly and adversarial. With a few new folks every now and again, we would be just as well off as any other place. Better once we get some folks into the tits and ass room.

However, If madtown murders you or your online persona, I firmly believe I won't be alone in finally abandoning this place and finding a feminine hygiene forum to contribute to. If he has any sense left in that pot addled head, he'll use this as a chance to return to our roots instead of a chance to burn the place to the ground out of spite. And yes, that means allowing pictures of lesbians kissing in the romper room.

Well, yeah, I understand. I was always looking for the happy medium but never found it. The cynical part of me doesn't think it exists.

But really, when you have a very long term member who has contributed a bunch around here saying that occasionally he reads PR with his 8 year old daughter on his lap, he has to be very careful where he strays, and asks politely that the definition we all agreed to, be adhered to, is that really an unreasonable request?

On the flip side, not being able to post the pic can occasionally really derail the discussion too.

Just isn't so easy when you're "that guy" making the call as to what is OK and what isn't.

I guess the good news is, this time, I'm really useless to move anything.

[retailguy]

I, for one, am appalled and insulted that someone would come on here and pretend to be someone else. How low can you stoop?

Signed:

Shamrockfan, er... I mean Patler!

Now, if Greenday would really come out of the closet, we'd all have a clean slate.