The ugly truth

[Scott Campbell]

That MFer SC probably just calls every Mexican "Pedro".

[get louder at lambeau]

Just shows you dont know shit about PR or its posters. Both of them are great guys. Thats why neither of them would want to do that shit. We are a family here, regardless of how fucked up it is.

Maybe if being a mod didn't involve sneaking around playing make believe bullshit, great guys like them would want to be mods. Other sites have great guys as mods. There are a lot of great guys on this site who might give it a shot, if you can avoid being a dickhead to work with.

[Guiness]

I was going to let this go by, but think I need to address it. Your point is fair, and you're entitled to have it.

None of us are perfect, and I'm certainly not. But this forum has been around for 5 years, and I'd been a moderator for about 4 of those years. So there are lots of potential items that you can point to and say "that guy screwed up again". Sometimes you'll be correct, and sometimes you'll be whining and sniveling.

In the above cases, you're looking at a snapshot in time. It is ONE post. I rarely yelled at someone for ONE offense. Usually, these things built for days and weeks. Without the benefit of hindsight, I don't remember the circumstance, and even using search, you won't have the whole background that could have been going on for days, or weeks.

In any event, it's my record, and if you find fault with it, that's actually just fine with me. We've had about 600k posts here, so however you want to do the math, that's a lot of potential for error. So, if a few dozen of these complaints show up, or hell, even a hundred, I'll be fine with it. 999 out of 1,000 times you make the right call. That one time? Sometimes you fuck it up pretty good.

A good thing with Joe, that I personally liked - When no one knew I was Joe, I was able to post here and give my opinion and even get into an argument sometimes. No one pulled the "moderator" card. You know, when I post something, someone tells me I'm an idiot, I respond, and they trot out the "You can't talk that way to your posters when you're a moderator!" line. Even though the whole debate had zero to do with moderating. I didn't miss that, AT ALL.

You might think your record is good, but the truth is you're pretty much an unmitigated asshole. And by your response, make that a self-righteous unmitigated asshole.

You don't remember the argument with me because you end up arguing with everyone. I remember, because, although I registered for this site the first day it was up I've had exactly one (1) (un) argument. With you.

[Joemailman]

Whatever anyone may think about certain decisions made by Mad and Retail, the fact is they've somehow managed to keep this crazy place going for over 5 years. That is no small feat in such a free-wheeling forum. There is dialogue allowed in here which makes this site the most interesting, and sometimes most maddening Packer site out there. None of us have some inherent right to be here, and although I sometimes leave for a while, I'm glad they've kept this place going. I've met both Mad and Retail in person, and found neither to be an asshole, much less an unmitigated, self-righteous asshole. This despite the fact that I had made unfair comments about one of them on the forum prior to meeting them.

[MadtownPacker]

You might think your record is good, but the truth is you're pretty much an unmitigated asshole. And by your response, make that a self-righteous unmitigated asshole.

You don't remember the argument with me because you end up arguing with everyone. I remember, because, although I registered for this site the first day it was up I've had exactly one (1) (un) argument. With you.

You are right, RG is an asshole on here. That is why I got love for him. That is also part of why he was made admin and later "Joe" to run the place. I felt like I needed a ying to my yang, a balance between good and evil, someone who could pull the plug where I could not. While I didnt control what RG said or did as "Joe" I take complete responsibility for anything that has happened.

Every since Father Harlan gave life to PackerRats, and everyone moved from JSO (Thank you Upnorth for CE but it was always just a stop on our trip home) I have felt responsibility to the forum and it's posters. I am not the kind of person that can be cold towards anyone I had conversations with for years even online. Yeah those emotions might be happy or angry or worse but they are always real. Yeah I have steered the ship wrong at times but it still floats and I hope me trying to fix things proves I give a fuck.

It is not the working on forum stuff that is discouraging it is the constant balancing of being a poster and admin. It is like being a cop and partying with a bunch a MFers doing coke and you cant have none. I want to party too but how can I enforce rules when I want to break them? That is why Joe came to be. I didnt have anything to do with posters from an admin stance. RG's hand would be stricter than mine, I could speak freely as a poster without the stigma of admin. That's is why I when I got a chance to post (Im always reading, its good shit) I would go off Charlie Sheen style because it was like back at JSO. Even then people would spit stuff in my face from when I was admin.

So really the question needing answer is how do I run this place and still get to participate? I really dont want to decide someones fate, so maybe we can get a jury for that? Maybe we can have a 3 strikes system? Issue minor penalties for minor offense? Fuck I dont know, because Im a dirty cop.

[MadtownPacker]

Maybe if being a mod didn't involve sneaking around playing make believe bullshit, great guys like them would want to be mods. Other sites have great guys as mods. There are a lot of great guys on this site who might give it a shot, if you can avoid being a dickhead to work with.

You dont get it huh? I know Patler and PBMax. They would not want to be an admin. This comes from years of posting not from saying "oh that guy would be great!".

Again your advice is not wanted but you are still welcome to come to the PackerRats posters game.

[red]

You are right, RG is an asshole on here. That is why I got love for him. That is also part of why he was made admin and later "Joe" to run the place. I felt like I needed a ying to my yang, a balance between good and evil, someone who could pull the plug where I could not. While I didnt control what RG said or did as "Joe" I take complete responsibility for anything that has happened.

Every since Father Harlan gave life to PackerRats, and everyone moved from JSO (Thank you Upnorth for CE but it was always just a stop on our trip home) I have felt responsibility to the forum and it's posters. I am not the kind of person that can be cold towards anyone I had conversations with for years even online. Yeah those emotions might be happy or angry or worse but they are always real. Yeah I have steered the ship wrong at times but it still floats and I hope me trying to fix things proves I give a fuck.

It is not the working on forum stuff that is discouraging it is the constant balancing of being a poster and admin. It is like being a cop and partying with a bunch a MFers doing coke and you cant have none. I want to party too but how can I enforce rules when I want to break them? That is why Joe came to be. I didnt have anything to do with posters from an admin stance. RG's hand would be stricter than mine, I could speak freely as a poster without the stigma of admin. That's is why I when I got a chance to post (Im always reading, its good shit) I would go off Charlie Sheen style because it was like back at JSO. Even then people would spit stuff in my face from when I was admin.

So really the question needing answer is how do I run this place and still get to participate? I really dont want to decide someones fate, so maybe we can get a jury for that? Maybe we can have a 3 strikes system? Issue minor penalties for minor offense? Fuck I dont know, because Im a dirty cop.

we can take you right out of the decision making process? how bout we elect as a forum 3 or 5 people every few months or so that can watch over things and decide what to do in a tough situation? we can be our own judge, jury and executioner. police ourselves? and if someone goes on a power trip, he can be voted out the next time.

this can keep mad out of doing any dirty work where he can just be a poster, and pay for this shit, at least until he gets banned for being a prick.

no one person could then just go nuts and start banning folks either

just an idea

[retailguy]

So really the question needing answer is how do I run this place and still get to participate? I really dont want to decide someones fate, so maybe we can get a jury for that? Maybe we can have a 3 strikes system? Issue minor penalties for minor offense? Fuck I dont know, because Im a dirty cop.

Ok, I'll throw my ideas out there.

I propose the following:

A Systems Administrator
Head Moderator for each forum
Three Member Rat Council
Front Page Website Facilitator
Packer Forum Discussion Champion
Marketing/Reciprocal Link Promoter
Bloggers
A Forum Administrator (not a moderator)


Systems Administrator - The person that oversees the design and construction of the website. This will involve working with a minimum of 2 volunteers who will implement said changes. The systems admin will have complete discretion regarding look, feel and functionality of this website. My Pick - Madtown Packer. (2 open volunteer slots)

Head Moderator for each forum - These people will regulate topics, determine appropriateness and pass out any needed infractions. Their decisions to relocate posts or censor posts will be final. I recommend that the leader of the rat council will serve as head moderator of the Packers forum, and the two other members will act as Packer forum moderators. (My picks listed later)

Romper Room Moderator - My pick - Deputy Nutz
FYI Moderators - Should be two, one from each persuasion - My picks - Mraynrand & Hoosier
Other Forums - (Light Traffic) - My Pick - Bretsky

Three member Rat Council - These folks will serve as moderators for the Packers forum, but they will also handle all poster relations and decisions. These folks will make the decision to ban membership and their decisions will be final. I suggest a leader and two members.

Leader - My Pick - Guiness
Members - My Picks - GrnBay007, Skinbasket

Front Page Website Facilitator - This person will have complete control of the content placed on the main page. Volunteers can write articles, but user posts & blogs can also serve as front page material as they choose. As many folks as are interested can volunteer to assist.

My pick - MJ Ziggy

Packer Forum Discussion Champion - This person is responsible to engage the membership in talking Green Bay Packer football, year round. They can start challenging topics, or serve as a frequent commentator to encourage discussion of other users posts.

My Pick - Patler

Marketing/Reciprocal Link Promoter - This person will work with other forum websites, other websites, and off internet relations to promote the existence of and the popularity of the PackerRats community. A number of volunteers can assist in this area.

My Pick - Scott Campbell

Bloggers - These people will maintain Packer related blogs by writing articles, or promoting other posters material as appropriate. We can have a maximum of 10 volunteer bloggers.

My Picks - Vince, KY Pack, Bretsky

Forum Administrator - This person is only responsible for user activation, email response, user group maintenance, and all the other miscellaneous functions (non membership decision making). This person will implement any rat council decision related to membership, but will have no voice in the actual decision.

My Pick - Retailguy



A couple of other notes. The marketing role and the front page design are very difficult to do without some money available to them.

With regard to marketing, I recommend that we create a fund that users can make a donation to, but is also supplemented by banner ads, ONLY FOR FOLKS THAT ARE NOT LOGGED IN. This software supports that functionality, and disclaimers can and should be placed that the ads will disappear immediately upon logging in under your user name. Banner ads should NEVER be visible to logged in membership.

With regard to the front page, I have found a couple of image website that allow the use of paid, copyrighted images. In the beginning, fees are nominal, and I would commit to funding these images myself for the 1st year. After that, hopefully membership will be such that another revenue stream will be found to continue this. We can, of course, use our own, user donated, copyright legal images where appropriate.

I have not spoken with ANY of these people, and I have no current decision making authority. These are my recommendations, and I invite your comments.

[MadtownPacker]

FYI - I have suspended louderatlambeau because of one reason and one reason only. He owns another site so his shit stirring and BS are not ok when it comes to us discussing our forum. Once this is settled he will be taken off his time out and welcome back as a poster. I know this wont be viewed favorably but it is the kind of fucked up decisions that have to be made.

[MadtownPacker]

That is a great structure RG but will it be able to happen? BTW MJZiggy will also be taking care of marketing/promotion stuff.

[retailguy]

That is a great structure RG but will it be able to happen? BTW MJZiggy will also be taking care of marketing/promotion stuff.

That's up to the membership and their willingness, I guess. Ziggy will be great at that, but now for sure she will need several volunteers to help her. Anyone willing? I'd also propose that PBMax team with Patler on the Discussion Champion role, and maybe Vince too.

[MJZiggy]

That's up to the membership and their willingness, I guess. Ziggy will be great at that, but now for sure she will need several volunteers to help her. Anyone willing? I'd also propose that PBMax team with Patler on the Discussion Champion role, and maybe Vince too.

She will need several volunteers to help her...I will probably reach out to a few folks as soon as I figure out what the hell I'm doing (excuse the dust until I do), but if anyone's interested in having a role on the home page--even if you don't know exactly what role you might want--I need to hear from you. Maybe we need a stickied thread with a list like RG's list and folks can volunteer to take on what they want.

[red]

what kind of help do you need zig? let me know, i might be willing.....

and for you, ready and able

[SkinBasket]

I suggest we take a cue from our president and give all of these positions "czar" titles.

I also agree there should be a way to donate. And banning people should be made an event, where everyone gets to say goodbye or go fuck yourself until you die, and the condemned is given a chance for his/her last words. Then we send them a $5 giftcard for Applebee's so there's no hard feelings.

[MJZiggy]

It looks like once I get everything figured out, it will take less time than the old software, but I'm working now, so I have less time to devote to it. I need folks who:

want to write (don't need to know what you want to write about, just that you like writing).
have photos (especially game day photos).
can help gbpackfan upload his photos (either tell him how or volunteer your photobucket skills for him and folks like him who need a hand).
are reading the homepage and thinking "I wish they had an article about ________" to fill in the blank and speak up.

I need people with blogs, facebook, and twitter accounts to post and tweet and let people know we're back. Not only now, but when the league and players quit being idiots and get back to business.
I need someone who likes to do research occasionally. (I have an idea and could use a hand)

And, of course, I always need stats people and prognosticators!