I could use some help...no laughing please!

[Patler]

Here's a crazy idea! What if you printed the really important stuff and kept it in, like, you know, a file cabinet? Radical!

For the really important stuff, I have; just as I said I will keep the VHS tapes even after copying them. I suppose I could print many of the slides, but that would get costly, too and the prints or slides are not permanent either. Copying electronically saves the quality as it is now so long as the electronic file remains accessible.

[Zool]

Online back-up is going to be your best bet. Your second best bet is buying some sort of flash solution. My understanding is flash is pretty much indestructible.

Zool, while flash does have a theorhetical max read/write, the number is ridiculously high and often quoted at much lower than it is. The phDs on my Mac forum who are much smarter than I pretty much concluded that flash is by far and away the best back-up solution. I know one of the phDs keeps one SSD with his research in a safe deposit box at a bank, and keeps another in a firebox in his house. He's a super smart guy (phD in CS) so I trust his judgement on the matter.

SSD's have a much higher read/write lifetime than do USB memory sticks. If SSD's were cheaper I would have thrown them into the equation but for now they aren't a great solution for the average person trying to backup pictures and whatnot.

I've seen far too many flash drives go bad to stick with them as a solitary backup.

I also like online backups but I like to keep it as simple as possible for people trying to use a PC at home. Most of the time they arent as nerdy as me and get frustrated easily by technology.

[Zool]

Really? Is that all the longer they can be expected to last??

That's usually the time frame where they start degrading.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...for_burned_CDs

There's a reason they are so cheap to buy.

[Patler]

Is there a progressive degradation of a file, or are we talking about individual files either being readable or not readable? In other words, if the file can be read, is it 100% as it was originally?

[Zool]

Is there a progressive degradation of a file, or are we talking about individual files either being readable or not readable? In other words, if the file can be read, is it 100% as it was originally?

Its actually the media itself breaking down. The dye used is a fairly low grade to keep costs low. If you hold up a CDR or a DVDR to the light you'll be able to see right through it. If the degradation starts in the lead in track the whole thing would be unreadable right then.

[Guiness]

That's usually the time frame where they start degrading.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/107607/Storage_expert_warns_of_short_life_span_for_burned_CDs

There's a reason they are so cheap to buy.

5-7 years? I've never heard a quote that low. Most of what I've seen quotes in the neighborhood of at least 30 years if you buy quality media. Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden (JVC) are the two brands generally considered to be the best.

Here's an article that talks about archival media, and gives you tips on how to find TY disks in the US, since they're not a 'store' brand.

http://adterrasperaspera.com/blog/2006/10/30/how-to-choose-cddvd-archival-media

As you stated above, i think the biggest issue is keeping on top of format changes. How are those 100meg zip disks treating ya? Having said that, DVD's have certainly reached a critical mass where they'll never (at least in our lifetime) totally go away.

[Guiness]

Online back-up is going to be your best bet. Your second best bet is buying some sort of flash solution. My understanding is flash is pretty much indestructible.

Zool, while flash does have a theorhetical max read/write, the number is ridiculously high and often quoted at much lower than it is. The phDs on my Mac forum who are much smarter than I pretty much concluded that flash is by far and away the best back-up solution. I know one of the phDs keeps one SSD with his research in a safe deposit box at a bank, and keeps another in a firebox in his house. He's a super smart guy (phD in CS) so I trust his judgement on the matter.

While it's high, you can certainly hit the 'wall' with SSD's - I did it myself and trashed some $3000 servo drives.

I wrote a program that stored the location of the end of a move. The manual wasn't clear, I thought I was writing to RAM but was actually writing to the SSD. Drive made a move every 10 seconds or so, factory ran 3 shifts...so the machine ran on average about 22h a day. Chips started to fail after 3 months...about 750K r/w operations.

Extreme maybe, but never say never.

[Patler]

All very interesting. I am learning a lot today.

If the problem with a hard drive is not the disc itself but the mechanics of the drive (like bearings), it would seem that a peripheral drive that is started and run only for backup purposes should last a long, long time. I have one now that is switched off except when I run a backup. I flip the power switch, wait for it to boot, run the backup and turn it off again when I am done. Consequently, it is powered up for a short time a couple times each month.

[SkinBasket]

Really? Is that all the longer they can be expected to last??

Reburning your important data every 5 years is probably a good idea no matter how long the media lasts.

[SkinBasket]

All very interesting. I am learning a lot today.

If the problem with a hard drive is not the disc itself but the mechanics of the drive (like bearings), it would seem that a peripheral drive that is started and run only for backup purposes should last a long, long time. I have one now that is switched off except when I run a backup. I flip the power switch, wait for it to boot, run the backup and turn it off again when I am done. Consequently, it is powered up for a short time a couple times each month.

Except you never know when it's going to physically fail. Some will last for years, others for weeks. As Zool pointed out to me when the arm on ours busted and dragged it's pathetic ass all over the disc after about 6 months of light use, HDD don't seem to be made quite like they used to. Mostly because the more storage space, the more parts and platters, the more things can go wrong and a lot of people don't use them for as long as they used to. And just like other storage solutions, they do degrade just sitting there in a static proof baggy in a drawer, which I also learned the hard way.

[Patler]

If I were buying something just for archiving purposes, should I spend a little extra for a consumer grade SSD? No moving parts, right? How is the data actually stored (physics of storage)? What causes failure in these?

Its a given that anything can fail. Absent manufacturing defects, I'm looking for what should be the most reliable.

Then, again, how much longer will I really be around to worry about it anyway???

[SkinBasket]

This is also an interesting topic right now as I'm pressing all 4 of my cores at 98-100% for 3 hours for the first time. I'll come back later to see if my computer caught fire from all the cat dander in it.

[Partial]

If I were buying something just for archiving purposes, should I spend a little extra for a consumer grade SSD? No moving parts, right? How is the data actually stored (physics of storage)? What causes failure in these?

Its a given that anything can fail. Absent manufacturing defects, I'm looking for what should be the most reliable.

Then, again, how much longer will I really be around to worry about it anyway???

I would say yes. There are good deals on SSDs occasionally on Slickdeals.net

[Freak Out]

SSDs for backups? That's fucking money crazy man....do some research and buy some quality hard drives and set up a home server running Ubuntu server or whatever setup in raid. Multiple hard drives with the same data...if one fails you replace it and on you go.....backup online as well and you are set. Hell....online backup is free in many instances. Screw removable media for long term storage as well.

[Freak Out]

Hideaki Takizawa