Another boring money post

[Little Whiskey]

[retailguy]

I believe the proper term is:

Boom. Game. Set. Match.

Of course, if I employ that, then I have to call Patler "Patty" and respond to Ziggys posts with: Please. Stop. Doing. It.

Maybe your picture is better. At least I'll seem more intelligent.

In all fairness and for the sake of clarification, on my cheapie boost account, I do not receive the following:

4G speed. I get 3G.
Visual Voicemail service, but that's an additional $10bucks on Sprint.
I do not get roaming, so my phone won't work on my ski trip to Wyoming.

This is somehow not a problem for me.... lol

[mraynrand]

.... I'm still on shrinkage...

Sorry to hear that

[Partial]

I disagree. The relevance is that you're preaching to all of us that it is "a great deal" and "everyone" has it, but you don't because it's too expensive. It's "don't do as I do, do as I tell you".

You're probably out of contract on that old phone, and haven't "cashed in" either, most likely. Yet we're all "fools" for not upgrading phones.

More preaching from the peanut gallery.

Huh, when did I do this? I'm not telling anyone it's a good deal because it's not. Cell phone data is ridiculously priced. It's overpriced for every phone, not an iPhone, or a Thunderbolt, or a Tralala. That doesn't change the fact a hundred million people are going to buy iPhones and iPads and that it's not a great stock. I'm not debating anything beyond A) the relative cost of the product to other comparable products b) that the product is not overpriced c) the stock and it's current/future value

I told you that an iphone for her would be $105 a month, estimated including taxes. You said it could be cheaper. I said she would use more than 400 minutes a month and therefore it wouldn 't be cheaper.

Please be specific on how I overstated anything? She uses her phone about 700 minutes a month. She uses text messaging as we have two teenagers, so please show me where it would be less than $105 including taxes? I priced it about 10 times on the AT&T website while we were exploring what to do.

Sure, I was stating the base price. I didn't know of her usage. Again, I'm not looking for a fight. Are you?

Good for you. See my analysis above. Those SERO plans are a really good deal. Probably knocks the math down to an additional $1,200 over 4 years instead of $1,800.

You're a genius Partial. Underappreciated and misunderstood too.

Agreed on both accounts.



--- This was a response to your previous post ----
RG, you're presenting a scenario that was not discussed. Sure, if you went to a prepaid carrier that costs less money, bought a cheaper phone at full cost then the subsidized version it's going to be cheaper.

All I'm saying is this:

I'm paying X amount of money per month to get a shiny new HTC Thunderbolt plus we'll say 200 up front for the subsidized phone.

If after two years, I stick with the same plan without upgrading, I'm getting served. If I do buy a new phone, I'm not getting served as much. The subsidy is built into the base rate of X no matter if I use it or not. I could sign up on a contract and keep and NOT get a new phone to begin with and am still paying X. Same thing.

I'm of the belief that the business model for cell phones is very much business friendly and not consumer friendly at all the way we do it in America (with contracts). The sooner pre-paid makes some dents and forces change, the happier I'll be.

It really is too bad that TMobile got rid of there reverse subsidization plan. On their plan, I could get a phone for 200 and take a 2 year contract, or pay the full price for the phone, not have a contract, and have my monthly charge be significantly less. Someone did the comparison with a Nexus one a few years back and there was a couple hundred bucks in savings over the two year period if I remember correctly.

I cannot emphasize enough that I hate cell phone contracts. I haven't had one in 2 years and don't look forward to going back to one. Having said that, I'm paying the same price whether I do or not so I'm going to take the subsidy and keep my 40$ unlimited plan and get the iPhone.

[retailguy]

Huh, when did I do this?

Virtually every other post since you've been back, you've preached that none of us know what we're talking about.

I'm not telling anyone it's a good deal because it's not. Cell phone data is ridiculously priced. It's overpriced for every phone, not an iPhone, or a Thunderbolt, or a Tralala. That doesn't change the fact a hundred million people are going to buy iPhones and iPads and that it's not a great stock. I'm not debating anything beyond A) the relative cost of the product to other comparable products b) that the product is not overpriced c) the stock and it's current/future value

You've preached the "relative cost" the past few days of the IPAD and what a great deal it is. I, and others, vehemently disagree.

You've encourged me to leap into the tablet market, in part because I've wanted to try some available flight software, but in part to "experience" just how bad an android tablet can be.

Years and years ago, I bought a VHS player instead of a BETAMAX, so I escaped the relative value of obsolecense. I thought I'd take the proceeds, saved over 30+ years and sink them into a couple of android tablets.

I bought an Acer Iconia A500 for my wife, and a Viewsonic G Tablet for myself. I want you to know that I bought the G Tablet specifically because all the "online experts" hated it. I plan to root it, and install the latest version of Honeycomb.

Then I'll benchmark it against my daughters IPAD 1's that their grandfather bought them. I'll be happy to provide the specs for you to benchmark your IPAD 2. Look for the thread in a week or so.

BTW - My cost was $580 for both tablets, $80 bucks cheaper than the best priced 16gb IPAD 2 with GPS that I could find. I needed one tablet with a GPS for the flight software, so a basic IPAD to share between us (which was the original plan until you spouted off over and over about how great they were) wasn't an option, so instead we EACH got a tablet of our own, and I've got $80 bucks left to pay the selling fees on ebay when I can't use the 90k apps that I apparently need.

Sure, I was stating the base price. I didn't know of her usage. Again, I'm not looking for a fight. Are you?

So, is this your way of admitting that you were w-w-wrong? Seriously. You spouted off with limited information about how "smart" you were and how "dumb" I was, then when you got the facts, you reiterated that you "didn't believe" my analysis and then disppeared into the ether.

I don't need to look for a fight, I just have to wait 10 minutes for you to post and there it comes again... Just before I responded to this, I read your post "instructing" skinbasket on how to educate his children.

Your pompous ass knows no bounds, does it? As you'll find out, the decisions to educate your children are yours, and yours (almost) alone, and are best left there. You don't seem to get that, but when some 25 year old idiot tells you "how" to educate your children somewhere in the future after you're no longer 25, (without a request for their expertise), you have my permission to knock their fucking idiot head off. At that point, you just might get it, but my hope for that is fading like a shooting star on a clear night.

--- This was a response to your previous post ----
RG, you're presenting a scenario that was not discussed. Sure, if you went to a prepaid carrier that costs less money, bought a cheaper phone at full cost then the subsidized version it's going to be cheaper.

I am beginning to believe that you don't remember what your little fingers type. Let's refresh your memory, shall we?

With cell contracts and subsidies, you're paid 400 dollars over 2 years essentially to sign a contract. You could go the prepaid route and see significant monthly savings but then you're paying full price for the handset. Seeing as prepaid is such a small fraction of the market in America, why would someone not upgrade? They're not getting the 400 dollars back into their pocket if they don't.

You defined my response. You dismissed prepaid on the basis of a small footprint, and used that "small footprint" to justify an upgrade.

I purposely picked one of the most expensive phones that they offer, AND, I purposely upgraded after two years to the SAME PHONE you were using and paid for both upgrades.

All I'm saying is this:

I'm paying X amount of money per month to get a shiny new HTC Thunderbolt plus we'll say 200 up front for the subsidized phone.

If after two years, I stick with the same plan without upgrading, I'm getting served. If I do buy a new phone, I'm not getting served as much. The subsidy is built into the base rate of X no matter if I use it or not. I could sign up on a contract and keep and NOT get a new phone to begin with and am still paying X. Same thing.

Your analysis was incomplete on so many levels, I just focused on the financial end of the deal.

There are many reasons not to upgrade and enter into a new contract that have ZERO to do with money. You want the freedom to leave at any time with no prepayment penalty, is just one of them.

If I make that decision, I'm not getting "hosed". Rather, I'm choosing to pay slightly higher monthly cost for less risk and the freedom to move service in MY time instead of the carriers.

I'm of the belief that the business model for cell phones is very much business friendly and not consumer friendly at all the way we do it in America (with contracts). The sooner pre-paid makes some dents and forces change, the happier I'll be.

I'll throw this one out to the group. In Partials previous posting, in this and other threads, did ANYONE reach this conclusion as to what he was saying? Anyone?

It really is too bad that TMobile got rid of there reverse subsidization plan. On their plan, I could get a phone for 200 and take a 2 year contract, or pay the full price for the phone, not have a contract, and have my monthly charge be significantly less. Someone did the comparison with a Nexus one a few years back and there was a couple hundred bucks in savings over the two year period if I remember correctly.

So, then, WHY did T-mobile get rid of it? Do you think perhaps, THAT THEY MADE LESS MONEY THIS WAY? Hello? McFly? You in there?

I cannot emphasize enough that I hate cell phone contracts. I haven't had one in 2 years and don't look forward to going back to one. Having said that, I'm paying the same price whether I do or not so I'm going to take the subsidy and keep my 40$ unlimited plan and get the iPhone.

So, let me get this straight. You have been "off" contract for two years. This means that the "advice" that you offered ziggy about her boss not upgrading is something that YOU chose not to do? But he was "stupid" for not doing it? HUH? Are you for real?

I don't have a SERO plan, so I haven't read the details. However, typically when you move to a new handset with Sprint, you have to change plans. Since the Epic requires special data, and the IPHONE certainly will, I won't be shocked when that shiny $40 plan will not work with the IPHONE, or the Epic. You need special data plans with those phones and they weren't in existence when that phone plan you have was developed. Good luck.

[Partial]

You're clearly looking for a fight, so I'm done with you too. As usual, you're misinformed and slant arguments to "prove" your points.

Yes, I have been stupid not to take subsides when I'm paying for them. I agree.

iPhone won't require a special data plan. You're misinformed. Epic requires a special data plan because Clear owns the network and Sprint pays 5$/handset to run on it. That's why they charge a fee.

Obviously, about the TMobile thing. Why are you arguing just to argue??

I'm sure most people reached the conclusion that cell phone data plans suck. Whenever we've discussed the topic, I've talked about how ridiculous it is.

Contract: Of course, but the terms of the discussion were surrounding a contract. Not some atypical use case you dreamt up to prove a point. I'm not looking to discuss prepaid. Why are you shifting the discussion of AAPL to something it never has been or was ever intended to be? Focus, man, focus, this is why so many people are not successful.

Good luck with your Google tablet. I'm sure it'll be an experience. I guess some people demand excellence and some accept adequate.

[retailguy]

You're clearly looking for a fight, so I'm done with you too. As usual, you're misinformed and slant arguments to "prove" your points.

Yes, I have been stupid not to take subsides when I'm paying for them. I agree.

iPhone won't require a special data plan. You're misinformed. Epic requires a special data plan because Clear owns the network and Sprint pays 5$/handset to run on it. That's why they charge a fee.

Obviously, about the TMobile thing. Why are you arguing just to argue??

I'm sure most people reached the conclusion that cell phone data plans suck. Whenever we've discussed the topic, I've talked about how ridiculous it is.

Contract: Of course, but the terms of the discussion were surrounding a contract. Not some atypical use case you dreamt up to prove a point. I'm not looking to discuss prepaid. Why are you shifting the discussion of AAPL to something it never has been or was ever intended to be? Focus, man, focus, this is why so many people are not successful.

Good luck with your Google tablet. I'm sure it'll be an experience. I guess some people demand excellence and some accept adequate.

This is about what I expected. It's what you do. Everytime.

I really want to know how I'm misinformed and I slanted the argument. I used your terms. I'd have done it differently, but then again, I wouldn't have made such a stupid point to begin with.

Let us know when you get your IPHONE connected to your existing plan. I have difficulty believing that they are going to subsidize that phone for you on a $40 per month plan. I'm sure there are holes and cracks in Sprints model, but we'll see. Color me skeptical.

Adequate? Really? How? If all the apps I want to use are on android (they are), and the tablet performs 40% faster than an IPAD (it does when rooted), how am I settling for "adequate"? Have you ever used one, or are you just relying on your "internet experts"?

[MJZiggy]

You're clearly looking for a fight, so I'm done with you too. As usual, you're misinformed and slant arguments to "prove" your points.

Yes, I have been stupid not to take subsides when I'm paying for them. I agree.

iPhone won't require a special data plan. You're misinformed. Epic requires a special data plan because Clear owns the network and Sprint pays 5$/handset to run on it. That's why they charge a fee.

Obviously, about the TMobile thing. Why are you arguing just to argue??

I'm sure most people reached the conclusion that cell phone data plans suck. Whenever we've discussed the topic, I've talked about how ridiculous it is.

Contract: Of course, but the terms of the discussion were surrounding a contract. Not some atypical use case you dreamt up to prove a point. I'm not looking to discuss prepaid. Why are you shifting the discussion of AAPL to something it never has been or was ever intended to be? Focus, man, focus, this is why so many people are not successful.

Good luck with your Google tablet. I'm sure it'll be an experience. I guess some people demand excellence and some accept adequate.

Amazing how EVERYONE else on the forum is misinformed. Are these nice folks misinformed too? http://money.msn.com/mutual-fund/art...4-3fa8c0d97427

Let me summarize. The iPhone trend is wearing off...And so it goes with trends...

And you're absolutely right some people (Like lots--enough to make one wary of inflated stock predictions) accept adequate. And functional.

[Partial]

This is about what I expected. It's what you do. Everytime.

I really want to know how I'm misinformed and I slanted the argument. I used your terms. I'd have done it differently, but then again, I wouldn't have made such a stupid point to begin with.

Let us know when you get your IPHONE connected to your existing plan. I have difficulty believing that they are going to subsidize that phone for you on a $40 per month plan. I'm sure there are holes and cracks in Sprints model, but we'll see. Color me skeptical.

Adequate? Really? How? If all the apps I want to use are on android (they are), and the tablet performs 40% faster than an IPAD (it does when rooted), how am I settling for "adequate"? Have you ever used one, or are you just relying on your "internet experts"?

Bullshit boots on the tablet performing faster than an iPad. That's laughable. It has an Nvidia Tegra 2 chip. No slouch, but certainly not anywhere near the SOC that is the Samsung Equinyox or Apple A5. Show me some benchmarks. What tablet is it? The LG one?

I'm guessing so because you're claiming the chip runs 40% faster, which this article leads me to believe with it's 1.4 ghz overclock that is the case.

ARE YOU F'ING KIDDING ME?????? CLOCKSPEED Is AN EXTREMELY SMALL CHUNK OF THE EQUATION GOOD MAN, IF YOU REALLY BELIEVE THE SYSTEM WILL BE 40% FASTER I HAVE SOME EXCELLENT SWAMP LAND IN FLORIDA I'D LIKE TO SELL YOU. This is simply not the case in overall system performance.

This is a benchmark conducted by Anandtech. Your tablet is not listed, but it has the same guts as every other Tegra 2 based tablet. The Galaxy Tab 10.1 is equivalent for all intents and purposes. Looks like the iPad 2, as expected, mops the floor with it.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4686/samsung-galaxy-s-2-international-review-the-best-redefined/17

I especially enjoy how you were talking shit about how people were having to hack their iOs devices to avoid proprietary software, yet here you are hacking your proprietary software to run unlicensed software (Honeycomb isn't open source yet).

Sprint SERO was a 30 dollar plan. They booted smart phones off of that and introduced SERO premium. Any phone is allowed on SERO premium, the only caviot is if your device has a 4G radio, it has to be active and because Clear runs the network, they pay 5$ per handset to clear. Thus, the additional 10$ 4G fee. Since the iPhone 5 won't have WiMax, it won't run on the Clear 4G network so the 4G fee won't be added on. We'll see if they change their tune, but to the knowledge available today according to their own documentation, it won't be.

Yeah Ziggy, that fucking iPhone trend is coming to an end! The last publicly available data we have on sales was, what? 124% more sales year over year for the 3rd quarter. They're only about to sell a record 30M this upcoming quarter. They only had, what, their 10th straight record setting quarter? The iPad went up 183% sales year over year for the quarter! What in heaven is Apple thinking? Growing? Exploding? Making so much money they're going to take the stock private (probably).

What is your information that the "iPhone trend" is ending? Please give me citations. As a stock holder I'm extremely interested and concerned!

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/07/19Apple-Reports-Third-Quarter-Results.html

Here's a quick graph for you.



What is going on at the most recent end of the graph?

GROWTH.

BTW, Apple is going to continue to blow up in China/Asia, and that will fuel tremendous GROWTH. I guess that trend is ending, though, huh?

http://www.bgr.com/2011/09/14/china-telecom-readying-235m-iphone-5-ad-blitz-pre-orders-start-end-of-september/

http://www.bgr.com/2011/06/23/china-mobile-worker-outs-iphone-5-due-in-september/

[MJZiggy]

Click the fucking link. The one that does NOT come from Apple to find my obviously misinformed source.

[mraynrand]

What is going on at the most recent end of the graph?

Those bars look thick and manly

[Patler]

For what its worth.

[retailguy]

Bullshit boots on the tablet performing faster than an iPad. That's laughable. It has an Nvidia Tegra 2 chip. No slouch, but certainly not anywhere near the SOC that is the Samsung Equinyox or Apple A5. Show me some benchmarks. What tablet is it? The LG one?

I'm guessing so because you're claiming the chip runs 40% faster, which this article leads me to believe with it's 1.4 ghz overclock that is the case.

ARE YOU F'ING KIDDING ME?????? CLOCKSPEED Is AN EXTREMELY SMALL CHUNK OF THE EQUATION GOOD MAN, IF YOU REALLY BELIEVE THE SYSTEM WILL BE 40% FASTER I HAVE SOME EXCELLENT SWAMP LAND IN FLORIDA I'D LIKE TO SELL YOU. This is simply not the case in overall system performance.

This is a benchmark conducted by Anandtech. Your tablet is not listed, but it has the same guts as every other Tegra 2 based tablet. The Galaxy Tab 10.1 is equivalent for all intents and purposes. Looks like the iPad 2, as expected, mops the floor with it.

(redacted the apple propaganda bullshit for brevity)

/

Well, still no answer as to how I misinform and slant. Ok.

Regarding honeycomb, it's linux so I expected it to be open source. Thanks for letting me know. If it'll make you happy, I'll only install Gingerbread for now, and I'll wait until the source is released. Funny, though, you accuse me of "slanting" things but you know that honeycomb WILL be released. It has to be released under the terms of the source. It's just a matter of time.

Here's reality. I can buy a $4 HDMI cable and use it with my tablet. I can buy an SD card and use it, or a jump drive and use it. With IOS? It takes a special PROPRIETARY cable to do that. It takes an APPROVED app, and a REQUIREMENT to use Itunes and the app store... Talk about "slanting", guess it takes one to know one.

I told you earlier, give me a week and I'll put up the thread. I was passing along what I read about what I bought. We'll see if it's true, and I will post the benchmark results (as soon as I figure out how to do them). I'm kinda flying blind here, but I figure since you've turned yourself into an absolute financial wizard with no training, then I can teach myself how to hack a tablet, and can hopefully do a better job of that than you do financial analysis....

Partial, you are a riot, an absolute riot. The best part of it, is that you don't even understand what we all find so hilarious.

[retailguy]

For what its worth.

It isn't worth much, unless you got it from the app store, or had to import it to itunes.

[retailguy]

Click the fucking link. The one that does NOT come from Apple to find my obviously misinformed source.

He probably can't click the link. I had to log into my msn live account to read it. He probably doesn't have one because it doesn't work with itunes. Apple probably has a proprietary software download that he could use, or, perhaps the article is using flash, in which case he'll never see it because it is "too outdated" to be bothered with.