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  • #16
    Looks like Apple is only going to sell 14M instead of 15M. Surely not 25% cut, but a sizable cut indeed. As Goldman Sachs points out, it likely has nothing to do with demand, more to do with building up for the forthcoming holiday rush.

    Claims that surfaced on Monday suggesting Apple had cut iPad 2 orders for the fourth quarter have reportedly been confirmed. JP Morgan analysts Mark Moskowitz and Gokul…


    Claims that surfaced on Monday suggesting Apple had cut iPad 2 orders for the fourth quarter have reportedly been confirmed. JP Morgan analysts Mark Moskowitz and Gokul Hariharan wrote in a note to investors on Monday that Apple had reduced its fourth-quarter iPad 2 orders from 17 million to 13 million units, suggesting that demand for Apple’s market-leading iPad might finally be waning. Some speculated that a portion of iPad production may have moved to Foxconn’s new factory in Brazil while others suggested that the report was not accurate, and JP Morgan’s Moskowitz would later issue a second note backtracking on the firm’s earlier statements. But should he have been so quick to fold? Read on for more.

    Goldman Sachs analysts Liang-chun Lin and Bill Shope each claim to have independently confirmed the fourth-quarter production cuts for Apple’s slate. Channel checks performed separately by each of the analysts indicate that iPad shipments in the fourth quarter are now expected to fall between 13 million and 14 million units, below the firm’s earlier estimate of 15.4 million. ”Overall, the data points suggest some slack iPad supply, at both the production and component level,” Lin wrote.

    The production cuts suggest a possible decrease in end user demand, however Goldman’s Shope believes that is an unlikely scenario. Instead, the analyst thinks Apple likely increased orders dramatically ahead of the holiday season and is now dropping production down to normal levels. Shope also suggested that Apple may instead be controlling iPad 2 manufacturing very closely in preparation for an iPad 3 launch in early 2012. The firm still sees Apple shipping between 28 million and 30 million iPads in the second half of 2011.

    “We believe a demand-centric bear case on Apple’s stock will quickly disintegrate in the face of multiple October product catalysts (next gen iPhone, iOS5, and iCloud), remarkably strong September quarter results, and what we expect to be solid iPad, Mac and iPhone momentum in the December quarter,” Shope wrote in his note. Goldman Sachs reiterated its $520 price target on Apple stock with a Conviction Buy rating.
    On the plus side, a 520 target price and a 'conviction buy' rating from a global thought leader is about as good as it gets. Time to buy.

    Earnings are going to be very interesting October 18th. I have to wonder how many iPhones they'll actually have sold after tempering the enthusiasm after the previous earnings citing a "product transition". They set the expectations much lower for this quarter after having a hall-of-fame type quarter preceding. The 16 month old iPhone is still the best selling phone. That's a little bit crazy as it's well under-powered by todays standard. Having said that, it's still a faster/better user experience then the competition so I'm not too surprised. I have to imagine the margins are ridiculously high right now as the components are all pretty outdated now. That would be sweet if Apple is making 500-550 per phone that they sell to carriers for 650.
    Last edited by Partial; 09-27-2011, 03:51 PM.

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    • #17
      NERDS!!!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Partial View Post
        http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2011...o-its-defense/

        Not according to the Wall Street Journal. I'm not worried. Apple stock has already rebounded, which means that this news is pretty much bunk. Amazon tablet is a non-factor right now. We'll have to see, they're trying to undercut the iPhone 5 announcement, but they aren't releasing until early next year I've read. That means iPad 2 is the only game in town for the holiday season and they will sell a lot of iPads.

        The big rumor is not that they cut 25% of production, but that they shifted it to Foxconn Brazil over human rights concerns. I think that's far more likely than Apple's demand slowing down... they still can barely keep up with iPad demand.

        I cannot reiterate that to consumers the amazon tablet is a non-factor right now. Those people who are interested in reading a lot already have the 70 dollar kindle.

        Having said that, it will be a stronger competitor long term than HTC, Sammy, etc on the tablet front because they offer a set of services similar to Apple (music store, video store, app store, etc). Proprietary or not, people want a refined, tight user experience. You can't get this with Google. Amazon, like Apple will be able to offer this.



        edit: Just read Skin's link. 3 million tablets is it for 2012? Apple is going to sell 100+ million. #NotWorried

        edit 2: Same article. #NotWorried
        Interesting. PC World seems to think that the Amazon Kindle Fire, which comes out Wednesday, is a little bit more than a new reader. Combined with the iPad reduction, someone should be #Worried.

        Last edited by MJZiggy; 09-27-2011, 06:05 PM. Reason: Because adding the link is really helpful.
        "Greatness is not an act... but a habit.Greatness is not an act... but a habit." -Greg Jennings

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        • #19
          Originally posted by MJZiggy View Post
          Interesting. PC World seems to think that the Amazon Kindle Fire, which comes out Wednesday, is a little bit more than a new reader. Combined with the iPad reduction, someone should be #Worried.

          http://www.pcworld.com/article/24065..._steroids.html
          It gets announced Wednesday. It doesn't come out Wednesday.

          iPads are not really getting reduced according to Goldman Sachs. They're exceeding everyone's wildest expectations. The Goldman Sachs article said, and I quote, "The production cuts suggest a possible decrease in end user demand, however Goldman’s Shope believes that is an unlikely scenario". No sense in debating this. We might as well just wait until October 18th and hear all about the iPad sales. My guess is they'll shatter expectations.

          I agree that Amazon is the chief competitor right now and Apple should be a little worried. I love Amazon, so I'm glad they're entering the fray because it'll push technology forward. Having said that, if competitors are having a very hard time meeting Apple's 500 dollar price point and remaining profitable, it's quite likely that Amazon is either A) losing 250$ per tablet or B) making more of a Nook (as mentioned in your article) then a full-blown tablet. If it's the prior, that's a risky move to make as the Android ecosystem doesn't support buying content. Android app developers don't make very much money at all compared to iOs counterparts. If it's the latter, I think it'll mollywomp the Nook and dominate the hybrid poor mans tablet/reader space.

          Finally, as I've said several times, Apple doesn't need to be a market leader in this space to continue being extremely profitable and seeing growth. Even if their market share drops to 40%, with the way the space itself is blowing up, Apple will come along for the ride.

          There are not clouds for AAPL in the near future beyond iCloud and the benefits that will provide to users and shareholders alike.

          FWIW, JP Morgan redacted their statement. The companies stance does not agree with that particular analysts.



          Originally posted by Deputy Nutz View Post
          NERDS!!!
          Pretty much spot on.
          Last edited by Partial; 09-27-2011, 06:33 PM.

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          • #20
            Seeking Alpha, a stock trading website, just published an article about how mathematically Apple is the most undervalued stock in the world right now. They also make a notion to a 10% jump coming very soon. W00t w00t!



            Apple remains the single most undervalued stock out there.
            Here's another excerpt from


            Apple Inc. (AAPL) – AAPL's stock price has been in an upward trend since 2009. Now, the stock is being traded around $382. Also, the stock has traded in a 52-week range between $265.52 and $404.50.

            Apple's return on invested capital (ROIC) is more than 200% versus its WACC of around 8%. This means that Apple is a great allocator of capital. The profit margin of the company is 23.53%. AAPL stock has price-to-earnings ratio of 15.12 and a forward price-to-earnings ratio of 11.84. Again, price-earnings-to-growth ratio is 0.64, demonstrating a lower value than it should be. Shares could maintain a PEG closer to 1.

            Further analysis of price-to-earnings ratio and price-earnings-to-growth ratio is possible to demonstrate the stock is even cheaper than meets the eye. Subtracting cash and marketable securities per share from its price, the stock is more attractive at an adjusted price-to-earnings ratio and price-earnings-to-growth ratio around 9.0 and 0.41, respectively.

            However, it’s clear that AAPL stock is cheaper than Google (GOOG) stock. Also, price-to-sales ratio is lower and stronger than Google's stock at 3.51. Its earnings-per-share is $25.28 currently compared with Google's at $27.72. I strongly recommend AAPL stock as a buy and hold, especially for long-term investors such as retirees.

            This article lists 20 stocks that are fantastic "value" investments mathematically. Not surprisingly, Apple is in the middle of the road of the top 20.

            Bretsky and Patler alert! Bretsky and Patler alert! Bretsky and Patler alert! Bretsky and Patler alert!



            Here is Yahoo!'s financial analyst breakdown on the stock value. As you can see, every Analyst they have says it's either a great time to Buy, Strong Buy, or Hold.



            On the MSN Finance page for AAPl, they rate it as a 10/10 Strong Buy right now.

            I'd say the future looks good by all accounts from the professionals.


            Update: Read this note from JP Morgan about expecting the next iPhone Big Bang. China and pre-paid penetration are the focus.
            Last edited by Partial; 09-27-2011, 06:51 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Partial View Post

              iPads are not really getting reduced according to Goldman Sachs. They're exceeding everyone's wildest expectations. The Goldman Sachs article said, and I quote, "The production cuts suggest a possible decrease in end user demand, however Goldman’s Shope believes that is an unlikely scenario". No sense in debating this. We might as well just wait until October 18th and hear all about the iPad sales. My guess is they'll shatter expectations.
              There are not clouds for AAPL in the near future beyond iCloud and the benefits that will provide to users and shareholders alike.

              FWIW, JP Morgan redacted their statement. The companies stance does not agree with that particular analysts.
              Lots of conflicting information, including confirmation of the reduction from some Asian analysts. It will be a couple more days before this gets sorted out, but in an up market AAPL dropped below $400 today.

              Neither Goldman Sacks nor JP Morgan are known as particularly accurate analysts in the technology sector (+/- 50% accuracy ratings). Market Edge, Needham and Ned Davis have 90%+ accuracy ratings, and so far they have been silent on this issue as far as I can find out.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Patler View Post
                Lots of conflicting information, including confirmation of the reduction from some Asian analysts. It will be a couple more days before this gets sorted out, but in an up market AAPL dropped below $400 today.

                Neither Goldman Sacks nor JP Morgan are known as particularly accurate analysts in the technology sector (+/- 50% accuracy ratings). Market Edge, Needham and Ned Davis have 90%+ accuracy ratings, and so far they have been silent on this issue as far as I can find out.
                Gene Munster is pretty good or so I've heard. I'm not at all worried about the stock. Down market schmown market. You and I both know what's coming and what's going to move the dial big time for a few months at the very least. Words cannot describe how excited I am for it.

                Just read a story about TMobile's CMO making a very public plea to Apple to give them the iPhone. That speaks volumes about the state of other handsets and how Android is only selling on carriers that don't have the iPhone.

                "T-Mobile USA CMO issues public plea for Apple’s iPhone"

                Expert analysis of the leading stories in tech and entertainment plus reviews of the latest gadgets.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Partial View Post
                  Seeking Alpha, a stock trading website, just published an article about how mathematically Apple is the most undervalued stock in the world right now. They also make a notion to a 10% jump coming very soon. W00t w00t!





                  Here's another excerpt from





                  This article lists 20 stocks that are fantastic "value" investments mathematically. Not surprisingly, Apple is in the middle of the road of the top 20.

                  Bretsky and Patler alert! Bretsky and Patler alert! Bretsky and Patler alert! Bretsky and Patler alert!



                  Here is Yahoo!'s financial analyst breakdown on the stock value. As you can see, every Analyst they have says it's either a great time to Buy, Strong Buy, or Hold.



                  On the MSN Finance page for AAPl, they rate it as a 10/10 Strong Buy right now.

                  I'd say the future looks good by all accounts from the professionals.


                  Update: Read this note from JP Morgan about expecting the next iPhone Big Bang. China and pre-paid penetration are the focus.
                  http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/09/...organ/?iid=EAL
                  There is nothing new with any of that. AAPL has been a strong buy on most everyones' list for the last 18 months or so. Right now it is the only "pure stock" that I own, the rest that I am managing on my own is in ETFs. (I don't include my mutual funds in what I consider to manage myself.)

                  The thing you really have to respect and be atune to, Partial, is that history is repleat with stories of can't miss stocks that fell precipitously with little warning. Just recently, AAPL was at $400, then dropped to $330 rather quickly, before slowly climbing back up again. It has done that several times. You can easily get lulled to sleep, ignore news and expect every drop to be only short term. A stock like AAPL has made a lot of people a lot of money on paper that they will want to lock in at some point. If a "routine" drop of 20% like we have seen several times happens to meet at the bottom with bad news, panic selling in that stock can result from people not wanting to risk their gains. In the market right now, companies that only meet expectations in quarterly reports have seen their stocks drop. That is unusual. For a stock like AAPL, it could be devastating. If it happens, it can take a few years to recover from it.

                  I will continue holding AAPL, but I won't be blind to early warning signs that might arise.

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                  • #24
                    My brother in law has an ipad. They use it for recipes. Other than that it's pretty useless, and he's an IT dork, so it's not like he doesn't know how to use it. The ipad that is, because I'm 100% sure he doesn't know how to have sex. With girls anyway.
                    "You're all very smart, and I'm very dumb." - Partial

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by SkinBasket View Post
                      My brother in law has an ipad. They use it for recipes. Other than that it's pretty useless, and he's an IT dork, so it's not like he doesn't know how to use it. The ipad that is, because I'm 100% sure he doesn't know how to have sex. With girls anyway.
                      Please. I've watched him look up complicated new sex positions with it.

                      Another way to look at this "debate" is to find out who companies are comparing their product to. Is anything on the market the next "Samsung Galaxy killer"?

                      Also penis.
                      Originally posted by 3irty1
                      This is museum quality stupidity.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Patler View Post
                        From a JP Morgan report:



                        A number of advisors have put AAPL on watch lists. Might be time for me to lock in my gains.
                        Originally posted by Patler View Post
                        Several sources are also suggesting that the continuing economic troubles in Europe have caused Apple to adjust forecasts for IPad sales in Europe significantly. A 25% cutback in orders to suppliers is huge. The only way that this is not bad news for AAPL stock is if the cutback is because they are switching to their own new product offering, but so far this does not seem to be the case.
                        Originally posted by Partial View Post
                        http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2011...o-its-defense/

                        Not according to the Wall Street Journal. I'm not worried. Apple stock has already rebounded, which means that this news is pretty much bunk. Amazon tablet is a non-factor right now. We'll have to see, they're trying to undercut the iPhone 5 announcement, but they aren't releasing until early next year I've read. That means iPad 2 is the only game in town for the holiday season and they will sell a lot of iPads.

                        The big rumor is not that they cut 25% of production, but that they shifted it to Foxconn Brazil over human rights concerns. I think that's far more likely than Apple's demand slowing down... they still can barely keep up with iPad demand.

                        I cannot reiterate that to consumers the amazon tablet is a non-factor right now. Those people who are interested in reading a lot already have the 70 dollar kindle.

                        Having said that, it will be a stronger competitor long term than HTC, Sammy, etc on the tablet front because they offer a set of services similar to Apple (music store, video store, app store, etc). Proprietary or not, people want a refined, tight user experience. You can't get this with Google. Amazon, like Apple will be able to offer this.



                        edit: Just read Skin's link. 3 million tablets is it for 2012? Apple is going to sell 100+ million. #NotWorried

                        edit 2: Same article. #NotWorried
                        Originally posted by Patler View Post
                        Lots of conflicting information, including confirmation of the reduction from some Asian analysts. It will be a couple more days before this gets sorted out, but in an up market AAPL dropped below $400 today.

                        Neither Goldman Sacks nor JP Morgan are known as particularly accurate analysts in the technology sector (+/- 50% accuracy ratings). Market Edge, Needham and Ned Davis have 90%+ accuracy ratings, and so far they have been silent on this issue as far as I can find out.
                        In view of AAPL's quarterly "miss" maybe there was some substance to this.

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                        • #27
                          Pat the "miss" is ridiculous. It beat Apple's projected figures. The problem is wall st. overhyped the thing. They were late on the iPhone, simple as that. Apple itself is setting expectations of 37B next quarter, so they'll likely hit 40. That's insane. The stock will bounce back tomorrow when cooler heads prevail.

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                          • #28
                            Buy low sell high.

                            Patler....you own any XOM?
                            C.H.U.D.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Partial View Post
                              Pat the "miss" is ridiculous. It beat Apple's projected figures. The problem is wall st. overhyped the thing. They were late on the iPhone, simple as that. Apple itself is setting expectations of 37B next quarter, so they'll likely hit 40. That's insane. The stock will bounce back tomorrow when cooler heads prevail.
                              Partial;

                              You are doing a dangerous thing, you are making excuses for a report that was a miss, plain and simple. It's not ridiculous, its a miss. Their first in 6 years.

                              In another thread you raved about analysts projections on the stock price, now you say their quarterly projections don't matter. Well, guess what, their stock projections are based on their quarterly projections, and that is what their recommendations come from.

                              In some ways the street's projections are more important, because they should be objective. If you follow only the companies own numbers, you will be misled by overly conservative projections so they never miss. You acknowledged as much when you wrote;"Apple itself is setting expectations of 37B next quarter, so they'll likely hit 40."

                              Stay objective.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Freak Out View Post

                                Patler....you own any XOM?
                                No, I never have owned any.

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