The Dog Whisperer

[Homer Jay]

I've read a couple books on dog training and they mention pack mentality, and how dogs look for the humans to be the pack leader. It seems like he is able to get the dog's attention and as he says get them be a member of the pack and not the dominant one.

[Bretsky]

I've read a couple books on dog training and they mention pack mentality, and how dogs look for the humans to be the pack leader. It seems like he is able to get the dog's attention and as he says get them be a member of the pack and not the dominant one.

Yes, Caesar would subscribe to that mentality. And I'm not saying he's right or wrong. I find him entertaining. I've watched him be effective and watched the spouse be effective with the same problems using other methods.

As for the books, you could find plenty that support his methods as well as bash his methods.

What's right ? How the heck do I know. I'm a mortgage Lender.

[GBRulz]

I have picked up a few pointers from the show as I have two dogs myself. However, most of the time I am left asking myself "ok, well, what exactly did he even do?" He makes a "chhh" noise at the dog and that's about it.

B, I'm curious to know what methods that your wife doesn't agree with? Does she just think it's kinda fake?

Some of his methods are negative reinforcement when implementing the behavior modification. Lots of different ways to achieve the results and the trainers who believe in clicker training..aka..positive reinforcement do not like this guy.

Actually B, I think Caeser very much practices positive reinforcement with the dogs. His methods are much like clicker training, but instead of having the dog pay attention to a command after they hear a clicker sound, the dog is taught to pay attention to Caesar. It's the same concept.

Well, you should discuss this with my wife; but if you compare Caesar to clicker training you'll get an earful. When you think about it Caesar teaches being the dominant alpha over your dog; If that means using a little force to get that dog to lay down...aka be submissive that's OK. Caesar..aka...the owner is the dictator. That is not clicker training. At a recent convention for clicker training they actually discussed differences in methods. Caeser is not well liked by them at all.

maybe I don't fully understand clicker training then. I thought it was just something that was used to get a dogs attention and then you give the command.

Of course you have to let your dog know YOU are in charge. Otherwise, that is when their behavioral problems start.

Everyone is going to have their ways of what works and what doesn't. it doesn't mean one party is right and one is wrong. one thing that I do not agree with at all are inhumane devices, such as prong collars that are supposed to elimate barking and pulling on leashes. Eventually, your dog is going to be immune from the pain and it will desensitive him/her.

[Bretsky]

"maybe I don't fully understand clicker training then. I thought it was just something that was used to get a dogs attention and then you give the command. "


You are a bit off on this. The clicker is used as a means of positive reinforcement to reward the dog for his/her good action. It's not an attention getter. You use positive training methods to teach a dog something, and when he does the correct action you click the clicker and immediately reward him with the treat...hot dog...etc. Dogs learn to love hearing the clicker because it means they did something right and will get rewarded in the short term. And you reward them healthy at the beginning and then slowly back the reward up until the action becomes habit. More of a team mentality that focuses on the positive morale of the dog in the learning situation. No alpha...get dogs attention with interesting ways... to follow the master mentality because we're the boss and our shit don't stink in clicker training.

[GBRulz]

ok, yeah that is not what I thought clicker training was. Does your wife use that, B ?

I'm having a problem with my 8 month old puppy. Bretta, who is a miniature Schnauzer, does NOT like to be left home alone. I am fortunate to be able to work remotely from home, so at the most, she is by herself for 3-4 hours at a time when I'm out with clients. So, she basically knows me as almost always being home.

When I am not home, she will find something to get into. Usually it's paper of some kind...magazine's, the toilet paper roll, or even chewing on the rugs around the house. When I come home, she KNOWS she did wrong, but yet continues to do so.

I have another dog, so she isn't really "alone" but she does not like it when I leave the house. My parents also have the same breed of dog and said he did exactly the same thing when he was left alone, until he was about a year old. So, is this just a "puppy" phase?

I crate trained her for housebreaking, so I still have a crate. At times I will put her in there and she just cries. My neighbors are probably wondering what the hell is going on, as it is the most piercing cry! As far as accidents in the house, never. She is really good about that, just likes to get into things when i am not home.

Any ideas on how to correct this?

[GrnBay007]

GBR, how big does a miniature Schnauzer get?

[Bretsky]

ok, yeah that is not what I thought clicker training was. Does your wife use that, B ?

I'm having a problem with my 8 month old puppy. Bretta, who is a miniature Schnauzer, does NOT like to be left home alone. I am fortunate to be able to work remotely from home, so at the most, she is by herself for 3-4 hours at a time when I'm out with clients. So, she basically knows me as almost always being home.

When I am not home, she will find something to get into. Usually it's paper of some kind...magazine's, the toilet paper roll, or even chewing on the rugs around the house. When I come home, she KNOWS she did wrong, but yet continues to do so.

I have another dog, so she isn't really "alone" but she does not like it when I leave the house. My parents also have the same breed of dog and said he did exactly the same thing when he was left alone, until he was about a year old. So, is this just a "puppy" phase?

I crate trained her for housebreaking, so I still have a crate. At times I will put her in there and she just cries. My neighbors are probably wondering what the hell is going on, as it is the most piercing cry! As far as accidents in the house, never. She is really good about that, just likes to get into things when i am not home.

Any ideas on how to correct this?

Yes, my wife does clicker training.

Sounds like your dog has separation anxiety. One of our dogs once had this too. I'll have my wife log in tonight and respond to this; but you have to give them praise praise praise and treats treats treats for getting into that kennel. Our dogs didn't mind getting in much. Didn't love it while they were in it, but it helps some.

[GBRulz]

I don't want to have to leave her in the kennel while I'm gone. Especially when the other dog has free roam of the house. But I do need to get her to understand that I won't put up with her tearing schitt up around the house, either. She probably already associates the kennel as a bad thing because the last couple times I've left, i've put her in there. Except this morning, I left her out. I closed all the doors and moved all the temptations, like magazines, out of her reach. I also left several dog toys on the floor. I came home and she didn't destroy anything, so it might be a good start.

007, Bretta is 18 pounds and is about full grown. My parents have a male mini Schauzer (2 years old) and he is 22 pounds. I've never seen dogs with such personalities before, they are awesome!

Are you still looking around at getting a dog?

[Homer Jay]

If you've never seen the show you can check out some video here

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/dogwhisperer/videoPreview.html

[Packers4Ever]

I caught the show this morning, 11:00 Central,
thought it was quite good and will definitely watch
again. One segment though, the elderly lady's
dog was on the wild side - German Shepherd I think,
and I thought Cesar had him toned down awful fast.
Faster than it would have worked for me !!
Another segment was on Katrina orphans and that
was very interesting.
Will check the video you mentioned too, thanks Homer.
GBR, my son has same problem you do with his
Australian Shepherd, good luck...

[GrnBay007]

Are you still looking around at getting a dog?

Yep, actually looking for two now. One for us and one for my Mom. She will need a small dog and one that is very friendly.....not too hyper.

[MJZiggy]

GBR, Clicker training is based on Pavlov's work. He did a lot of experiments on dogs and discovered lots of things like learned helplessness, physical responses to stimulation, etc. One of the things he discovered was that if you rang a bell immediately before feeding a dog, eventually the dog would salivate at the sound of the bell without food being anywhere near. Clicker training uses this bit of information.

In clicker training, the click becomes a secondary reinforcer, meaning that when the dog hears the click, he knows he's done something right and a reward is coming. He then wants the reward again and repeats the behavior in order to earn another click. The beauty of clicking is that it is an immediate reinforcement of the exact behavoir you want. For a really good explanation of exactly how it works, the psych behind it and how it developed, check out Karen Pryor's book, Don't Shoot the Dog. There is likely to be stuff in there about separation anxiety and crate training as well.

Cesar Milan works with the pack mentality to dominate the dog. I was once watching and in a crowd of dogs when one did something he didn't like, he stared that dog down to the ground. I have two dogs and trained one each way. My stubborn, alpha wannabe (my first dog) got trained Cesar's way and my shy little one was clicker trained. I tried teaching her the other way, but by the time we came home from the first class she was a train wreck who couldn't even do a sit she was so worried about making me unhappy. I think the way you train really has a lot to do with the dog you're training. I was astounded when the instructor told me that my little 25 lb. girl needed a prong collar (NEVER!) and she showed him by learning admirably with the clicker. Anyway, that's my thesis on the subject.

[GBRulz]

Are you still looking around at getting a dog?

Yep, actually looking for two now. One for us and one for my Mom. She will need a small dog and one that is very friendly.....not too hyper.

My sister has a floor mop which is part Bichon, part Shit-zu (sp?) and he is the most laid back dog in the world. Each dog is different though. For example, my mini-Schnauzer is a hyper little thing, while my parents (same breed of dog) is so laid back.

Maybe adopting an adult dog would be the best thing for you. At least then you know their personalities. www.petfinder.com is a great site for adopting animals. It's basically a database of the humane societies of the U.S.

[Bretsky]

'DOG WHISPERER' TRAINING APPROACH MORE HARMFUL THAN HELPFUL

DENVER, Sept. 6, 2006 – The training tactics featured on Cesar
Millan's "Dog Whisperer" program are inhumane, outdated and improper,
according to a letter sent yesterday to the National Geographic Channel
by American Humane, the oldest national organization protecting children
and animals.

In the letter, American Humane, which works to raise public awareness
about responsible pet ownership and reduce the euthanasia of unwanted
pets, expressed dismay over the "numerous inhumane training techniques"
advocated by Cesar Millan on "Dog Whisperer."

Several instances of cruel and dangerous treatment – promoted by
Millan as acceptable training methods – were documented by American
Humane, including one in which a dog was partially asphyxiated in an
episode. In this instance, the fractious dog was pinned to the ground by
its neck after first being "hung" by a collar incrementally tightened by
Millan. Millan's goal – of subduing a fractious animal – was
accomplished by partially cutting off the blood supply to its brain.


The letter requests that National Geographic stop airing the program
immediately and issue a statement explaining that the tactics featured
on the program are inhumane, and it encourages National Geographic to
begin developing programming that sets a positive example by featuring
proper, humane animal training. In its letter, American Humane said: "We
believe that achieving the goal of improving the way people interact
with their pets would be far more successful and beneficial for the
National Geographic Channel if it ceased sending the contradictory
message that violent treatment of animals is acceptable."
"As a forerunner in the movement towards humane dog training, we find
the excessively rough handling of animals on the show and inhumane
training methods to be potentially harmful for the animals and the
people on the show," said the letter's author, Bill Torgerson, DVM, MBA,
who is vice president of Animal Protection Services for American Humane.
"It also does a disservice to all the show's viewers by espousing an
inaccurate message about what constitutes effective training and
appropriate treatment of animals."

Torgerson noted that the safety of a woman and her German shepherd were
jeopardized in one episode by the use of an electric shock collar, which
forced the tormented dog to redirect its aggression at its owner, biting
her arm. "Furthermore, the television audience was never told that Mr.
Millan was attempting to modify the dog's behavior by causing pain with
the shock collar," he said.

For more information about humane training techniques, please visit

https://www.americanhumane.com

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The only clicker training needed is for WOMEN and the remote. They just don't understand how to use it.