The Inside Story of How the NFL's Plan for Its 1st Openly Gay Player Fell Apart

[mraynrand]

I agree that the here and now is the best measure. I do not know if I can articulate the target. Everything I write read like a Supreme Court Justice writing about pornography.

The trend is encouraging though. And despite the utter uselessness of the phrase, we'll know when we get there.

I'm trying to just stick to analysis where we are with respect to the issue in the NFL. If anyone wants to discuss the underlying issue of gay behavior right or wrong, that's for FYI.

As far as trends go, it is interesting to note that the Duck Dynasty controversy represents the dramatic change in the culture. The issue there was not whether gay behavior is right or wrong, the issue there was whether popular culture (not 'the law') was going to tolerate (not accept) the expression of the viewpoint that gay behavior is sinful (wrong). With the trend among 30 and under being 70-30 in favor of acceptance (not tolerance) of gay behavior, the future seems pretty certain - gay players will be known, accepted and celebrated in the NFL as in society at large.

[MadtownPacker]

I'd shake Skinbasket's hand and say 'Right on Mate'.

Might want to wear gloves foo!

[SkinBasket]

Well, I am wise enough not to expect the Mardi Gras celebration to be a perfect reflection of life in New Orleans. Many writers have noted that the parades are double-edged swords (there you go). There are always people willing to be publicly confrontational in groups, that is not unique to homosexuals.

And I think that if we tally the efforts to ignore, marginalize, suppress or deny homosexuals and balance it against more recent efforts working toward tolerance and acceptance, the balance sheet is still tilted in favor of suppression. Pray away the Gay is simply the silliest effort on that front (the commercial version, no problem with anyone praying for help, guidance or providence).

The point being that homosexuality is defined by the specific type of sexual behavior, as the name suggests. I'm not reducing homos to their sexuality, but that is their defined uniqueness. I'm not sure what is strange about that.

As far as your balance sheet goes, I'm struggling to think of even a collection of "anti-gay" efforts that would counter just one episode of Glee as far as influence on popular culture and opinion, not to mention the 402 other television shows that paint homos in a sympathetic, victimized, or otherwise protagonist role (whereas conservatives who would be their antagonist are usually painted as comically ignorant, backwards and square) the Bravo network, a vast majority of outspoken celebrity, academia, and political support, and the Rose Parade, among others. I think you're being more than a little disingenuous on that account.

Anyway, the original point being that pressuring a gay athlete to come out to fulfill the goals of a sociopolitical movement that has more than enough other spokespeople, champions, and pop culture influence seems wrong and degrading.

[mraynrand]

Anyway, the original point being that pressuring a gay athlete to come out to fulfill the goals of a sociopolitical movement that has more than enough other spokespeople, champions, and pop culture influence seems wrong and degrading.

for some reason this reminds me of Jim Caldwell, but I can't imagine why

[Tony Oday]

This just in there are straight people in the NFL, nobody talks about that! I'm sick of the gay agenda, you want tolive the gay lifestyle or are born to it rock on but I don't give a shit who you are banging as long as it is a consenting adult.

[pbmax]

Its strange that you choose to focus specifically on the sexual behavior as the defining characteristic. The attraction to the same sex might be the defining characteristic of the group, but it is not the defining characteristic of any individual. And that is the entire point. I doubt any of the people hoping for another athlete to emerge wants that athlete to detail, promote or otherwise advertise a specific sexual behavior or practice.

Just as Jordy Nelson's ad with his wife is not meant to be a testimony for heterosexual behavior, the appearance of a active, out professional athlete is not meant to be an advertisement for homosexual behavior.

I would hope that any person who chooses to do this does not do it to fulfill a sociopolitical movement. I hope they do it so the appearance of the object of their affection in Wisconsin Tourism ad, at a game, or in an interview is as run of the mill and unremarkable as the appearance of Mrs. Nelson in the ad.

[pbmax]

This just in there are straight people in the NFL, nobody talks about that!

No one talks about who Jay Cutler was dating, got married to? No one talks about Tony Romo and Jessica Simpson or whomever he eventually got married to?

No one ever talks about Rothliesberger's escapades and well-timed marriage? Is there no chance you know who Tom Brady is married to? The chances of you knowing who he USED to be dating must be terrible, right?

I don't see McCarthy and his wife on my TV every 15 minutes soliciting donations for the Children's Hospital at UW-Madison?

I have nearly lost track of how many articles I have read about Ryan Pickett's wife and family. How about Strahan and his divorce? Howie Long's wife and kids?

Really, no one talks about straight relationships in the NFL?

[gbgary]

I would hope that any person who chooses to do this does not do it to fulfill a sociopolitical movement.

maybe later on but the first few will definitely be of the sociopolitical variety. it can't be helped. the media, the movement, politicians, won't allow it to be anything else.

[mraynrand]

Its strange that you choose to focus specifically on the sexual behavior as the defining characteristic.

the sexual behavior is the issue. Otherwise you're just talking about close friends

[pbmax]

maybe later on but the first few will definitely of the sociopolitical variety. it can't be helped. the media, the movement, politicians, won't allow it be anything else.

Oh, it will be all tied together to the point that denying or proclaiming otherwise would be ineffectual.

But I hope it is not the sole reason. But there is no guarantee. Any sane person would harbor reservations.

[pbmax]

the sexual behavior is the issue. Otherwise you're just talking about close friends

The public acknowledgment is not simply about behavior. Its an effort to lead an open and honest life.

There is a natural tension between private and public realms, but this particular public realm remains unchartered.

[mraynrand]

The public acknowledgment is not simply about behavior. Its an effort to lead an open and honest life..

Yes, an open and honest life about behavior. Otherwise there is nothing to be 'open and honest' about. No one would care.

[pbmax]

Yes, an open and honest life about behavior. Otherwise there is nothing to be 'open and honest' about. No one would care.

I doubt no one would care, but the salaciousness the topic lends itself to no doubt helps with the fascination.

[mraynrand]

The NFL may be a tough nut to crack:

As [my teammates and I] sat down in our chairs, Mike Priefer, in one of the meanest voices I can ever recall hearing, said: ‘We should round up all the gays, send them to an island, and then nuke it until it glows.’ The room grew intensely quiet, and none of the players said a word for the rest of the meeting.

Former Vikings punter says he lost job due to stance on gay marriage
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/01/chri...-mike-priefer/

Perhaps part excuse-making, but will be interesting to see if Kluwe ever punts again. I guess Tampa Bay won't be calling.

[pbmax]

The NFL may be a tough nut to crack:




Former Vikings punter says he lost job due to stance on gay marriage
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/01/chri...-mike-priefer/

Perhaps part excuse-making, but will be interesting to see if Kluwe ever punts again. I guess Tampa Bay won't be calling.

I had a hard time buying that Priefer had that kind of pull, until I read in his article that the Pioneer Press said he was the only in house candidate with a chance.

Then on Twitter I discovered he interviewed with the Bears for the HC job last year. Harbaugh, Cowher and whatshisface have really improved the visibility of the ST Coordinator.