RIP Robin Williams

[3irty1]

That's the point! Those others (none of which I've heard are conservative - Arnold certainly wasn't - but whatever) didn't and likely wouldn't. A weird known druggie? Not so much of a shock. It isn't the fact that it's big news that's bad. It's putting this guy on a pedestal. "Everybody" loved the guy? I sure didn't - which was basically my original point. He acted like a damn fool, which I, for one, don't see as funny. I never cared for Steve Martin, Jim Carrey. or going way back, Jerry Lewis or Jonathan Winters either, and arguably all of them were more talented.

As for your first line, EXACTLY! Can't you see the difference between somebody who really has a bad situation - the great majority of them in and out of show business still don't off themselves - on the one hand, and some rich arguably talented idiot who has everything to live for who judges himself and finds himself unworthy? We are suppose to empathize/sympathize with THAT? I don't think so! And don't give me any "he couldn't help it" crap.

Are you some kind of crazy alien that has never been to a funeral? What in the sam hell do you expect them to say about a super famous guy the week that he died? Every single one of those people I listed are conservative and vote exactly like you do and if any one of them died the coverage would "put them on a pedestal" because anything less is absolutely tasteless. Although clearly you missed that memo.

Yes, I can think of a worse situation than the one Robin Williams was in, oh wait, no I can't because I have no idea what its like to be Robin Williams. You're saying he judged himself unworthy of life, when I'm saying its a lot more likely that he judged himself unworthy of pain. By taking that stance not only am I righter than you, I'm also waaaayyyy less of a dick.

[texaspackerbacker]

Are you some kind of crazy alien that has never been to a funeral? What in the sam hell do you expect them to say about a super famous guy the week that he died? Every single one of those people I listed are conservative and vote exactly like you do and if any one of them died the coverage would "put them on a pedestal" because anything less is absolutely tasteless. Although clearly you missed that memo.

Yes, I can think of a worse situation than the one Robin Williams was in, oh wait, no I can't because I have no idea what its like to be Robin Williams. You're saying he judged himself unworthy of life, when I'm saying its a lot more likely that he judged himself unworthy of pain. By taking that stance not only am I righter than you, I'm also waaaayyyy less of a dick.

Are you familiar with the phrase, "assuming facts not in evidence"? Pain? Has anybody even remotely suggested that? Not that I've heard. If somebody is in excruciating pain - cancer or whatever - that can't be relieved, then maybe what you suggest has a small amount of merit - although the great majority of people even in that situation do NOT place so little value on their lives to kill themselves. Can we assume the guy was a show business icon, liked and respected, probably rich, talented in the eyes of most people? Then if he didn't have that excruciating and unrelievable pain, I simply don't see any mitigating circumstance for his offing himself. And don't say that is judging him - he did that for himself. I'm simply saying I don't buy all the empathy crap when the guy had a life like any of us could only dream about. And if you want to bring up this psycho-babble about depression, what in the hell did he have to be depressed about? Give me, give any of us his life, his situation, his money, etc., and I guarantee you, I and the great majority of us would enjoy it and not fuck it up and decide to end it.

And as for those "conservatives" you named, I don't have any evidence they aren't - except for Arnold, who has an extensive record of words and deeds as governor that says he isn't, but I'd sure like to see YOUR evidence that they are conservative.

[bobblehead]

It's that line of thinking that had people with asbergers and autism in mental institutions. Depression and addiction are real illnesses caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. I'm not excusing it or saying I agree with drug usage. What I am saying is look around and tell me hyper successful people aren't generally addicts to something.

Again, culture. I know MANY hyper successful people who are NOT addicts. GW Bush was a fall down drunk who changed his life. Not to get into politics, but like him or hate him, the man was wired to work 24/7. The alcohol and drugs weren't necessary as he eventually found out.

[bobblehead]

Are you familiar with the phrase, "assuming facts not in evidence"? Pain? Has anybody even remotely suggested that? Not that I've heard. .

Has anyone (other than you) suggested that he deemed himself not worthy of living?

[Patler]

Never mind politics. If you like his form of humor, fine, that's your opinion. Mine is that his idea of humor was kinda sick/not really funny - it was all down hill after he played Popeye.

I'm kind of confused by your comments. What form of humor was his, really? Robin Williams played humor in many, many very different ways from far out wacky to the very subtle and thoughtful. I can understand not appreciating some of his work, but he played humor in ways for just about everyone at one time or another.

[Patler]

Fine. We'll also agree to disagree that John Wayne was 100 times the entertainer that Williams was. To me, John only played one kind of character. He was rather limited actually.

Yup. John Wayne played ... John Wayne.

[Patler]

I heard today that the USO considered Robin Williams to be their modern version of Bob Hope. He would go anywhere, whenever asked. For that alone, he will be missed.

[texaspackerbacker]

Has anyone (other than you) suggested that he deemed himself not worthy of living?

I really don't pay too much attention to what others suggest. The smart ones "sound like tex" (the really smart ones don't apologize for it hahahaha). The others? Well, they are what they are.

What other logical conclusion could you come to? That comment can be applied to ANYBODY who commits suicide - the possible exception being extreme physical pain - cancer or whatever, but even then, the great majority of people see their life as more valuable than the pain, and choose not to off themselves.

[Patler]

A column than pretty-well summarizes our debate in this thread:

http://www.jsonline.com/entertainmen...271329801.html

In part:

"I know depression is a horrible thing. But just because he's depressed, it's not a death sentence. Cancer is. ALS is. Depression is not a death sentence. You can get help for it."

He later said: "He made a choice to off himself. It's not like he had no choice in the matter."

And: "This guy had EVERYTHING. And he just blew it all off and killed himself."

There are a lot of apples and oranges in there. Williams — who had drug and alcohol problems — did in fact seek help throughout his career. According to the New York Times he "quit cold turkey" in the 1980s and was sober for two decades before falling off the wagon in 2006. He was recently treated for "severe depression," according to the story.

And on Thursday it was reported he was suffering from Parkinson's disease, a progressive neurological disorder.

Jon Lehrmann, chairman of psychiatry and behavioral medicine at the Medical College of Wisconsin and associate chief of staff for mental health at the Clement A. Zablocki VA Medical Center, said he was "shocked and appalled" by a transcript of Needles' remarks.

"What is not understood or appreciated," he said in an email, is that mental illness "can affect how people think."

Williams' illness likely "affected his thinking and judgment and made him lose control and do something he would not have done if he were thinking rationally," Lehrmann said.

At the VA Lehrmann "worked with national combat heroes who are among the toughest and strongest individuals in the country" whose mental illness caused them "to think the glass is half empty, that there is no hope ... that they are worthless and that life is not worth living, or the world is a better place without them."

(Coincidentally, Williams was a frequent USO entertainer, doing six tours in 13 countries for 90,000 troops.)

Lehrmann said mental illnesses are "medical and biological and can be entirely disabling and lead to death just as a heart attack or cancer can." Depression, he said, "causes more suffering and loss ... than cancer or any other illness."

[texaspackerbacker]

A column than pretty-well summarizes our debate in this thread:

http://www.jsonline.com/entertainmen...271329801.html

In part:

I think I'll go with what the first guy said - Needles? is that his name? It's just common sense.

[Patler]

I don't believe it is common sense. Personally, I think Lehrmann has a better handle on the sources and consequences of depression. I think a person can be successful and otherwise healthy; yet severely depressed. I believe deep seeded feelings of inadequacy and worthlessness can force some to high levels of success which they never see in themselves.

[texaspackerbacker]

Depression is basically unreasoned negativity about oneself, one's condition, one's situation. Giving it a name has made tons of money for a LOT of people - therapists, counsellors, etc. It also has made extreme money for pharmaceutical companies. The key word here is "unreasoned". I can easily empathize/sympathize with people who have reason to feel depressed not caused by their own bad decisions - pain or hopelessness of cancer or other diseases, bad luck resulting in financial problems, etc. However, like that guy said in the article, for somebody with basically everything - a situation almost any of us can only dream of - to take it into his head to off himself - because he is "depressed"? WHY should we feel anything but disgust for that?

[Zool]

Fuck guy. Could you be more obtuse? It's a chemical issue in the brain you fuckwit. Are you pissed at people who get Alzheimer? Are the autistic unworthy? Why do I continue to reply to an ignorant brick wall. Maybe I'm insane?

[Freak Out]

LOL.

[texaspackerbacker]

Why are you getting so hung up on somebody who thought nothing more of himself than to commit suicide? hahahaha So you're claiming depression is somehow a PHYSICAL problem? That may be the modernist point of view; That may be p.c. point of view; But I strongly doubt the guy had any "chemical imbalance" other than what might have been brought on by his own foibles and bad decisions - is anybody in the position to know even suggesting that? Anyway, I really don't give a damn. This whole silly discussion began with me stating my opinion - that I don't like Robin Williams' form of humor. If you guys have a different opinion, fine, this is America - you are entitled to that opinion - just as I am entitled to piss all over your beloved suicidal icon.