RIP Robin Williams

[MJZiggy]

Ok, I came here to read about football and pop in here only to find this bullshit. Here's the deal. I have mild chemical depression. For me it comes on every now and again and hangs around for a little while and then is gone again. Is is physical, you're damn right it is. I usually don't sense it starting, but after a few days of increasing frustration with everything, episodes of crying for no reason and feeling like the world really doesn't need me around, there's something I've learned. If I'm having this going on, I can feel it. It feels like a veil behind my eyes. It makes beautiful sunshine feel like an annoyance. It feels strange behind my sinuses. But because my depression is mild, I can recognize what it is and I can know it will go away. And sure enough, within a couple of days I can feel the veil breaking up and the light and warmer thoughts can get back in. I am lucky that way and I can't imagine how I would deal with it if it were more severe. If you don't think it affects your reasoning, I almost quit my job a few times before I figured it out. Was I thinking clearly? Hell no!

It is very common for depression sufferers to become addicted as they are self-medicating, trying anything that might make them feel better. I have, in the past taken a couple different anti-anxiety medications. I never saw any benefit from them. Some do, some don't. It's not a cure-all. If you think that Robin Williams didn't think anything of himself, you would be wrong. His self worth was evident in the way he treated people. I read an article today from someone who wanted to book an appearance with him. Williams' publicist sent a rider requiring that anyone he worked for had to hire homeless people as a condition of working with him. Any time he appeared anywhere, by the time he left, he had spoken to every camera man, sound dude, makeup person and food supplier in the place. He genuinely loved people and they loved him back. That is a worthy human being. But if you don't think the anguish involved in depression is real pain that could cause someone to do this, you clearly have never felt it. Don't judge what you don't know.

[texaspackerbacker]

Ok, I came here to read about football and pop in here only to find this bullshit. Here's the deal. I have mild chemical depression. For me it comes on every now and again and hangs around for a little while and then is gone again. Is is physical, you're damn right it is. I usually don't sense it starting, but after a few days of increasing frustration with everything, episodes of crying for no reason and feeling like the world really doesn't need me around, there's something I've learned. If I'm having this going on, I can feel it. It feels like a veil behind my eyes. It makes beautiful sunshine feel like an annoyance. It feels strange behind my sinuses. But because my depression is mild, I can recognize what it is and I can know it will go away. And sure enough, within a couple of days I can feel the veil breaking up and the light and warmer thoughts can get back in. I am lucky that way and I can't imagine how I would deal with it if it were more severe. If you don't think it affects your reasoning, I almost quit my job a few times before I figured it out. Was I thinking clearly? Hell no!

It is very common for depression sufferers to become addicted as they are self-medicating, trying anything that might make them feel better. I have, in the past taken a couple different anti-anxiety medications. I never saw any benefit from them. Some do, some don't. It's not a cure-all. If you think that Robin Williams didn't think anything of himself, you would be wrong. His self worth was evident in the way he treated people. I read an article today from someone who wanted to book an appearance with him. Williams' publicist sent a rider requiring that anyone he worked for had to hire homeless people as a condition of working with him. Any time he appeared anywhere, by the time he left, he had spoken to every camera man, sound dude, makeup person and food supplier in the place. He genuinely loved people and they loved him back. That is a worthy human being. But if you don't think the anguish involved in depression is real pain that could cause someone to do this, you clearly have never felt it. Don't judge what you don't know.

excuses excuses - lame excuses

[Patler]

excuses excuses - lame excuses

Man, you are so far off base in you beliefs about depression that you are not even in the ball park.

[texaspackerbacker]

Man, you are so far off base in you beliefs about depression that you are not even in the ball park.

Yeah, whatever. Go with the modernist shit if you want to.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for people who commit suicide. I have no sympathy whatsoever for people who choose to abuse drugs. They are what they are; They make their own consequences. I will stop short of saying they deserve what they get, because that would be judging hahahaha. However, opinions are like assholes - everybody's got one. This is mine; You got yours. BFD.

[Patler]

So, what is your opinion of people who have poor eyesight, are hard of hearing, are bald, have arthritis, are diabetic, schizophrenic, are left handed, etc?
Why do you assume depression is any less of a physical issue than those?

We are only scratching the surface in our understanding of brain chemistry.

[MJZiggy]

excuses excuses - lame excuses

Excuses for what exactly? For feeling a physical presence behind my face? or for my mind feeling better when that physical (did I mention physical) presence goes away. As I said, clearly you've never felt it. So if I expect you to run marathons and you tell me you can't, that's making the exact same kind of excuse. Your body physically won't let you run marathons. My body physically changes when I am going through a bout of depression. Don't judge what you don't know.

The ball park Patler? He's not even in the same part of town as the ball park. By the way, Patler's "opinion" is also backed up by a whole lot of medical science. What's yours backed up by?

[Joemailman]

In Tex's world, people who get Alzheimer's are just too fucking lazy to remember anything.

[texaspackerbacker]

Alzheimers, cancer, other true physical maladies, yeah, they deserve sympathy. A lot of people have a lot of reasons to really be depressed. The HUGE majority, however, don't stoop to committing suicide; The solid majority also don't stoop to drug addiction.

Some of you seem to totally eat up the shit about "depression" being an actually physical problem. That's modernist; That's a theory; That's unproven; If you choose to believe it, fine, that's your opinion. My opinion is that "depression" is what it was thought to be for generations: purely a psychological thing - sometimes valid to the extent that the person has some depressing crap in their life, most of the time not valid - just some rich asshole with everything to live for conjuring up problems in their head.

And it provides a convenient EXCUSE for a lot of weird and bad behaviors including but probably not limited to suicide and drug use. That's just an opinion, of course - same as the modernist crap about screwed up body chemistry or whatever are just opinion.

I really don't give a damn. This all started by me saying I didn't care for the form of humor of the guy. I was willing to let him RIP - until somebody saw fit to dig him up again hahahaha.

[texaspackerbacker]

So, what is your opinion of people who have poor eyesight, are hard of hearing, are bald, have arthritis, are diabetic, schizophrenic, are left handed, etc?
Why do you assume depression is any less of a physical issue than those?

We are only scratching the surface in our understanding of brain chemistry.

Why do you assume that it isn't? The stuff you mention - except for schizophrenia - clearly is physical. There's no proof the psychological crap is in the same category. Also, most of the stuff you mention is not used as an excuse for suicide, drugs, and other bad behavior.

[MJZiggy]

You clearly don't understand what physical means. A disease attacks the brain is no different than one that attacks the pancreas. The only difference is in the function of the organ being attacked.

[Patler]

Why do you assume that it isn't? The stuff you mention - except for schizophrenia - clearly is physical. There's no proof the psychological crap is in the same category. Also, most of the stuff you mention is not used as an excuse for suicide, drugs, and other bad behavior.

Actually there is a lot of proof regarding physical differences in the brains of people with a lot of mental diseases. Many of them can be helped significantly with drug therapies to correct certain imbalances. As I said, we are just beginning to understand brain chemistry. It is becoming very clear, for example, that the chemistry of the brains of schizophrenics is quite different from that of "normal" people. There also seems to be a strong hereditary link to schizophrenia. People don't chose to become schizophrenic, nor allow them selves to be schizophrenic. They can not force their brain to function normally anymore than a person with poor eyesight can force themselves to see clearly.

I think there are a lot of people who use mental disease excuses when they aren't justified, just like there are many who feign back ailments and other physical issues to scam the system. But legitimate back injuries exist as do legitimate mental diseases. People with physical pain often become drug dependent and drug abuser. People with mental diseases often self-medicate and become abusers. In neither case is the drug abuse justified, or even excused, but the reasons behind it should be understood in an effort to help those who are actual sufferers and not merely those looking for excuses. But yes, there are many drug abusers of all types who reach for any excuse they can, many without justification.

Suicide is a complex issue. To dismiss every suicide as a weak-willed person is naive.

[texaspackerbacker]

"Just beginning to scratch the surface" - your own words. You are confusing proven facts with speculation. I will give you credit for a fairly fair and balanced post, but you seem to have your finger on the scales when it comes to conclusions. I say this from the perspective of somebody without a degree om medicine, so I guess I will have to label my words as speculation too hahahaha: it seems to me in order to conclusively prove anything regarding "brain chemistry", they would have to do research on a live person that would not be possible to do.

Additionally, you have advanced from speculation about depression, which I think would be classified as a neurosis to schizophrenia, which I'm pretty sure is regarded as a psychosis - a quantumly different situation. You may very well be correct that schizophrenia has a "physical" or "brain chemistry" aspect - although even that is speculative. The original premise, however, was depression - which since long before the time of Freud was seen as some sort of lunacy. Does the person CHOOSE to be depressed? I suppose not hahahaha, but I would suggest the person indeed DOES choose how to deal with the situation: ignore/overcome/stoop to drug addiction/commit suicide.

One more thing: you seem to use the word "mental" as a synonym for "psychological". It's not.

[Patler]

No, I'm not at all confusing fact with speculation. The facts are what tests reveal, what the facts mean is what we strive to understand. We know there are differences in the brains of many people suffering disorders, the causes and effects of those differences are what we need to figure out. Some may prove relevant, some not.

I went into more depth about schizophrenia, because I understood your response to be that it is not a physical disorder. There are very strong indications that it has even hereditary causes.

To dismiss any ailment of any type based on what we thought it to be in the past is silly. Research is all about questioning past beliefs based on newer understandings.

[texaspackerbacker]

No, I'm not at all confusing fact with speculation. The facts are what tests reveal, what the facts mean is what we strive to understand. We know there are differences in the brains of many people suffering disorders, the causes and effects of those differences are what we need to figure out. Some may prove relevant, some not.

I went into more depth about schizophrenia, because I understood your response to be that it is not a physical disorder. There are very strong indications that it has even hereditary causes.

To dismiss any ailment of any type based on what we thought it to be in the past is silly. Research is all about questioning past beliefs based on newer understandings.

What was thought in the past were the "facts" at that time. What you call "facts" now, I repeat, are nothing more than modernist speculation. You said yourself, there is no way to understand the "facts" as modern research has derived them. Tell me - educate me - HOW can you do any definitive "brain chemistry" research on a living human body? What do modernist researchers/speculators have to say about neuroses - depression being one of many? Caused by things like viruses or other external factors? Or psychological - conjured up in the mind? Do those modernist types regard neuroses like depression to be completely beyond the control of the people having them? Or is it like I said, the neuroses, and particularly depression can be ignored or overcome if the person so chooses?

I've said, I don't have a medical degree or anything. I just read stuff in an analytical and sometimes critical way. What are YOUR credentials, if any? Do you have a valid claim to speculate better than I can speculate? Just asking hahahaha.

[Patler]

What was thought in the past were the "facts" at that time. What you call "facts" now, I repeat, are nothing more than modernist speculation. You said yourself, there is no way to understand the "facts" as modern research has derived them. Tell me - educate me - HOW can you do any definitive "brain chemistry" research on a living human body? What do modernist researchers/speculators have to say about neuroses - depression being one of many? Caused by things like viruses or other external factors? Or psychological - conjured up in the mind? Do those modernist types regard neuroses like depression to be completely beyond the control of the people having them? Or is it like I said, the neuroses, and particularly depression can be ignored or overcome if the person so chooses?

I've said, I don't have a medical degree or anything. I just read stuff in an analytical and sometimes critical way. What are YOUR credentials, if any? Do you have a valid claim to speculate better than I can speculate? Just asking hahahaha.

What are my credentials? For this topic, absolutely nothing, just as I have absolutely no credentials for football. However, I do have certain backgrounds and experiences allowing me to form beliefs and opinions about many things that I am willing to discuss with anyone.

One of my first degrees was in chemistry, with an emphasis in organic & biochemistry. That was many, many years ago, and I never worked as a chemist of any type. However, all of my careers since then have been in technology fields. Even now, hardly a week goes by that I am not in a lab or in contact with engineers/researchers about projects they are engaged in. I've not worked directly in any medical field, but at one time I was regularly involved for years with several leading suppliers of medical implants, joint replacement structures, etc. I remain involved with a retired physician who developed several medical tools and is bringing to the market an over-the-counter treatment he has worked on for 10+ years (I have worked with him since the start).

I have spent my adult life reading and evaluating technical reports and studies about things I know quite well. While I don't pretend to know the chemistry involved at any high level at all, when I read reports about the differences in neurotransmitter levels for schizophrenics compared to others, I have a certain rudimentary understanding even if I am not equipped to evaluate the report. When I read about investigations of hereditary connections, I understand the arguments for and against. When I read about studies showing people with certain gene mutations having a much greater likelihood of developing schizophrenia, I understand the logic. Do I know how all of the tests are taken? No, I am willing to trust the data-taking ability of research institutions of good repute. The data for a patient or subject are facts for that patient. Whether or not they are facts for the condition are yet to be determined, but there appear to be strong connections, and it is that body of knowledge that we are scratching the surface of.

I know little about psychiatry, but I know enough about the sciences to understand, even expect the likelihood of physical connections for many conditions. Heredity, lifestyle, environmental influences, etc. are probably all involved to greater and lesser degrees depending on the condition and subject, just as they are with other conditions like heart disease, obesity, cancers, etc.

In the end, why should brain disorders be much different than heart disorders, liver disorders, etc? To dismiss out of hand any physical connection is, in my opinion, naive, and to assume that every suicide is merely the result of flawed character is worse than naive.