The Last jedi

[mraynrand]

Star Wars has been such a clusterfuck after the first 3. The stupidity is strong with all who have written, directed, and casted these movies. I'll agree on the exception of Rogue One, that was quality. But the others, I regret spending money on them. I'm fully expecting Episode 9 to be as dumb as when Capt Kirk had to go back in time to save the whales to save Earth in the Trek movies.

Was talking with a Star Wars nut last night. I think I convinced him that the problem was storytelling and characters (including poor acting). There were some interesting themes available, and some of it should have been salvageable, but the art is poor quality. For example, Emo Vader is interesting. He has one parent strong with the force and into politics, and another parent who is force-less, and is anti-government, anti-joiner by nature. If that conflict had played out better in Emo Vader over the course of episodes 7-9, it would have been very intriguing, but it required some decent exposition. All we get is a uniformly whining, tantrum throwing kid, not a kid who has to balance the disparate wishes of his parents to follow the path of one or the other. His story has no arc, his character has no journey and no destination.

Much of this results probably from what I call a 'serialization defect.' If you've watched any long-running show, that lasted longer than the original story, it's usually easy to detect when new, thin story lines are invented to draw the thing out. Too often these story lines are murky tangents which corrupt characters, rather than expanding them or challenging them in new ways. So instead of telling a cohesive story, and complete story that is the product of the creative mind of - usually - a single individual with a vision, the story becomes a slave to the necessity of having multiple episodes for commercial purposes, even if the ideas to sustain several episodes are not there.

[mraynrand]

Bite yer phuqqing tongue. That was second only to KHhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnn!

word

[red]

Was talking with a Star Wars nut last night. I think I convinced him that the problem was storytelling and characters (including poor acting). There were some interesting themes available, and some of it should have been salvageable, but the art is poor quality. For example, Emo Vader is interesting. He has one parent strong with the force and into politics, and another parent who is force-less, and is anti-government, anti-joiner by nature. If that conflict had played out better in Emo Vader over the course of episodes 7-9, it would have been very intriguing, but it required some decent exposition. All we get is a uniformly whining, tantrum throwing kid, not a kid who has to balance the disparate wishes of his parents to follow the path of one or the other. His story has no arc, his character has no journey and no destination.

Much of this results probably from what I call a 'serialization defect.' If you've watched any long-running show, that lasted longer than the original story, it's usually easy to detect when new, thin story lines are invented to draw the thing out. Too often these story lines are murky tangents which corrupt characters, rather than expanding them or challenging them in new ways. So instead of telling a cohesive story, and complete story that is the product of the creative mind of - usually - a single individual with a vision, the story becomes a slave to the necessity of having multiple episodes for commercial purposes, even if the ideas to sustain several episodes are not there.

Yeah, so, they knew it was gonna be a trilogy, but instead of writing a 3 movie story. They decided to take one movie at a time and let each different director make up his own story

Which is very dumb

[Zool]

The prequels would have written themselves if Lucas wasn't such a money grubbing shit bag.

EP 1, First half: Annikan origins, introduction to the force, small glimpse of things not being quite right. Second half, teen Annikan being shown as far stronger with the force than even anticipated. Warnings from Yoda. Scrap the force Jesus routine.

EP 2, Annikan having a secret life outside the Jedi. Not getting married and having terribly written love scenes. Action scenes of the clone wars and growing bond with Obi Wan. Emperor finds him and sees the darkness. Cultivates the darkness ultimately turning him in the final scene.

EP 3, Vader being a killing machine.

In EP 4 Obi Wan said "Vader hunted down and killed all the Jedi". He said nothing about "Clones had a secret code implanted that turns them on the Jedi". Lucas neutered Vader in EP1-3. And as Rand said, there is no main character that makes any sense or that you give 2 shits about.

[red]

did the prequels ever make anakin out to be the most powerful jedi ever? or even come close to being "the one"

he was pretty much always obi wans sidekick in the first 3, i never really got the feeling he was anything special, other then being told multiple times that he was

it was the clone wars cartoons that made him look like a complete badass

also, what just struck me. anakin wasn't allowed to be with portman because the jedi code says priests, i mean jedi, aren't allowed to do that because of the code. and now in the last jedi, the ultimate jedi syas that none of the jedi code is really worth a shit and doesnt matter. if yoda would have just said that about 60 years or so earlier, you never would have had darth vader, and millions and millions of people wouldn't have died

just more proof that maybe the jedi weren't the good guys after all

[red]

The prequels would have written themselves if Lucas wasn't such a money grubbing shit bag.

EP 1, First half: Annikan origins, introduction to the force, small glimpse of things not being quite right. Second half, teen Annikan being shown as far stronger with the force than even anticipated. Warnings from Yoda. Scrap the force Jesus routine.

EP 2, Annikan having a secret life outside the Jedi. Not getting married and having terribly written love scenes. Action scenes of the clone wars and growing bond with Obi Wan. Emperor finds him and sees the darkness. Cultivates the darkness ultimately turning him in the final scene.

EP 3, Vader being a killing machine.

In EP 4 Obi Wan said "Vader hunted down and killed all the Jedi". He said nothing about "Clones had a secret code implanted that turns them on the Jedi". Lucas neutered Vader in EP1-3. And as Rand said, there is no main character that makes any sense or that you give 2 shits about.

you would really hope that one of the planned spinoffs would have been about vader being a complete killing machine. hell that would make a great trilogy

what happened between episode 3 and roge one that made everyone so terrified of him? THAT, would be the ultimate star wars story. make it dark as shit too

[Cheesehead Craig]

Bring black Qui-Gon Jinn!

[George Cumby]

you would really hope that one of the planned spinoffs would have been about vader being a complete killing machine. hell that would make a great trilogy

what happened between episode 3 and roge one that made everyone so terrified of him? THAT, would be the ultimate star wars story. make it dark as shit too

This.

[Zool]

If you want to get nerded up good, go read the Darth Bane trilogy. It's everything Darth Vader could have been.

https://www.amazon.com/Darth-Bane-Le.../dp/B009MYAQQS

[mraynrand]

If you want to get nerded up good, go read the Darth Bane trilogy. It's everything Darth Vader could have been.

https://www.amazon.com/Darth-Bane-Le.../dp/B009MYAQQS

I've never read any Star Wars books, and stopped reading Trek books 30 years ago, but I do know tangentially that there are far better stories told in some of these books than have ever made the screen. A faithful retelling of the best of them on screen would be reasonably smart, which means Disney will never do it.

[red]

I've never read any Star Wars books, and stopped reading Trek books 30 years ago, but I do know tangentially that there are far better stories told in some of these books than have ever made the screen. A faithful retelling of the best of them on screen would be reasonably smart, which means Disney will never do it.

that would be the thrawn trilogy. it was seen as many as the follow up trilogy after jedi

and star wars rebels recently introduced the thrawn character to cannon. so it could happen

[3irty1]

you would really hope that one of the planned spinoffs would have been about vader being a complete killing machine. hell that would make a great trilogy

what happened between episode 3 and roge one that made everyone so terrified of him? THAT, would be the ultimate star wars story. make it dark as shit too

I wonder if we'll get any of that in the upcoming Obi Wan movie.

If ever there were a purpose for spinoff movies it would be to get Boba Fett on screen. Is there any character in anything that is more beloved yet less explored?

[red]

I wonder if we'll get any of that in the upcoming Obi Wan movie.

If ever there were a purpose for spinoff movies it would be to get Boba Fett on screen. Is there any character in anything that is more beloved yet less explored?

i think the obi wan movie has been canceled, due to solo not making enough money

[Zool]

They said all spinoffs are on hold. Hadn't heard cancelled yet.

Thrawn is a great series. Really well done.

[mraynrand]

I wonder if we'll get any of that in the upcoming Obi Wan movie.

If ever there were a purpose for spinoff movies it would be to get Boba Fett on screen. Is there any character in anything that is more beloved yet less explored?

Kennedy would write Boba Fett as a female to male transgender with gynecological issues exacerbated by the costume.