Sitting as a Juror on a murder trial

[the_idle_threat]

It's the temp you serve it at that's the problem. You don't need it to melt steel or in this case when you make a dumb mistake end up with permanent disfigurement.

Melt steel? Good thing nobody is resorting to hyperbole ... :P

You say or imply that people should be protected from their own dumb mistakes. But if a person knocks a pot of boiling water off the stove, is there a case against General Electric because the stove allowed the temperature to get that high? The "protection from one's own mistakes" rationale is about as weak as can be. When a person has reason to know something is a burn hazard, and yet acts in a way that causes a spill, the person should take responsibility for screwing up. The temperature is immaterial unless it is way outside the bounds of reasonableness, because the victim surely knew there was a burn hazard.

Who gets to decide what temperature is reasonable? Lawyers with a financial stake in the case?

According to the National Coffee Association of the U.S.A., coffee should be brewed at 195 to 205 degrees F, and should be maintained and consumed at 180 to 185 degrees F. McDonald's was following the industry standard that was set for optimally-brewed coffee, a standard that the majority of its customers seemed to be okay with, and many other restaurants meet. I wonder if anyone asked how many customers would prefer that coffee be served at a "safe" 110 or 120 degrees.

(Source: http://www.ncausa.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=71)

To put the 700 burn incidents over ten years (most of which were admitted to be very minor incidents) in context, consider how many cups of coffee were sold. It was 49 cents per cup, with an estimated $1.35 million in coffee revenue per day. That's approximately 2.75 million cups per day, multiplied by 365 days and then by ten years equals more than ten billion cups sold in ten years.

Over ten billion cups sold, over ten billion satisfied customers, and 700 burn complaints, most of them minor. Doesn't sound to me like an issue where Mcdonald's was even negligent, much less reckless. Everyone knows shit happens, and it really didn't happen all that much in the scheme of things here.

Sure, there are even more blatant examples of bad lawsuits, like for example where the "victim" was never even truly injured, but that doesn't redeem this suit where there may have been actual injury, but the cause was the victim's own conduct. Just because McDonald's can afford to pay doesn't mean it should have to.

[Merlin]

I totally agree with that! I guess it's like anything else, there are always a few bad apples that make the system seem flawed. I disagreed with the Tort Reform they were mulling over. I do however think there needs to be some common sense in our judicial system. Just because someone has the money to pay doesn't mean they should have to for someone else's lack of common sense. It goes right in step with those that think life is a free ride and they aren't responsible for themselves.

About 10 years ago I was standing on an office chair with wheels at work to replace a light bulb. Needless to say I fell off the chair and dislocated my shoulder. I felt like such a dork because I knew better. The employer had a strict policy that all injuries on the job get reported. I pleaded with the employer to let my insurance cover it but they were adamant that I use Workman's Compensation. It was my fault, I was the moron who didn't use common sense, yet they had to pay for it.

[the_idle_threat]

.44 Desert Eagle is a pansy gun compared to the .454 Casull.

And then there's this thing: http://emuse.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/16789

None of those schmucks even know how to shoot! Look at the stance of most of them. Can you say pain?

I used to guide for a bit and I had a 375 HH magnum brush gun that was about the same length. Just a kicking beast but good for close work in an alder thicket.

Yeah, I was watching this vid with a friend, and we remarked on their stances as well. Especially the ones who were actually leaning backwards.

Of course, they're a bunch of shrimpy little guys too, and that doesn't help them either.

[LEWCWA]

Ed Gein is his name and well he didn't even go to prison as he was insane!

[LEWCWA]

He was incarcerated, but in the mental health ward....From what I understand he liked it.

[LEWCWA]

he was just a curious chap!

[Rastak]

BTW Freak..

My condolences to you.. I was on a murder jury about 5 years ago, fairly small town, local girl shot by "out of town gangsta girlfriend" claiming self defense.

Man, was it ugly... deliberations for 8 days!

I was on a murder trial.....that was sure stressful.....I felt like shit even though the guy was an asshole and we sent him up the river. They hide alot of evidence from you as a juror so it's REALLY a tough decision. I guess that's the point. I felt TERRIBLE...until I found out some facts after he was sentenced....then I felt damn good.

[Freak Out]

We should get the case this Friday.....I have a feeling it is going to be a long hard deliberation. There is so much evidence to go through...and no smoking gun. Big fun.

[Rastak]

We should get the case this Friday.....I have a feeling it is going to be a long hard deliberation. There is so much evidence to go through...and no smoking gun. Big fun.

Yea, and it's a guys life so there ain't no joking around. I ended up in the hotel for one night and we delivered a verdict the next day. It was very hard but a very interesting experience.

[Merlin]

I think the hardest part would be to remain objective to all of the evidence. Say they pile up 100 things that says the person did it but the defense has 1 thing that says "maybe he didn't". According to the law, you have that shred of doubt thrown in there, you have to let em go.

I don't really know what I would do being I have never served.

[Little Whiskey]

desert eagle .44 cal. check out the smith and wesson 50 cal. talk about a handgun with a kick. better not have weak wrists to shoot that thing, or even think of shooting that thing "gangsta style". i've even seen a pistol that shot a 300 ultra mag. (rifle ammo). looked like a sawed off rifle. even i thought that was a little over kill.

[Little Whiskey]

I've never been on a jury or been called for jury duty. but at least where i live when you get called for jury duty all you have to do is call a number the night befor and they let you know if you have to show up the next morning.

I was called as a witness to testify once. that was an experience. damn jury didn't convict the guy even though i thought all the evidence pointed to him. howvever all they had was circumstantial evidence.

[Freak Out]

Closing arguments went all day......some heavy shit. The defense went off for almost 2 and a half freaking hours strait. Talk about a bladder buster. When all was said and done we got instructions from the Judge...went back and elected a foreman who promptly said were done for the weekend.

[MJZiggy]

Nothing like making the defendant sweat all weekend...

[Freak Out]

Guilty of Murder in the 1st.....I had no idea how I would feel when we entered the courtroom.......It was intense. I can say my heart was racing when I sat down in the jurors box for that last time. I had to almost meditate to calm myself down, but I looked him in the eye when the verdict was read.
This guy was stone. Tense stuff. Of course the defense made the judge poll us so we had to answer one at a time when the judge called our name to confirm we had voted guilty. All of the victims family were crying and the defense was pissed. There was no doubt for me.
After it was over the judge came into the jury room and talked to us for some time and also informed us that NBC Dateline and CBS 48 hours had been following the entire case and had letters for us asking to please contact them. I'll have to think about that one.....
I have to give the local media here some credit....most of the jurors bailed out the back door but myself and a fews other went out the front of the courthouse and all the the reporters were very respectful. None of them were hounding you for a comment.
If called I would do it again but I hope I never have to.