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  • Turkish Incursion Into Iraq



    Big Turkey incursion in Iraq would be U.S. nightmare

    Thu Jun 7, 2007 9:06PM EDT

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A large-scale invasion of Northern Iraq by Turkish forces would be a nightmare for the United States and could destabilize the one part of the country that is relatively calm, analysts said on Thursday.

    A Web site report on Wednesday that 50,000 Turkish troops poured into Northern Iraq to fight Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) guerrillas set off alarms in Washington, where U.S. officials scurried to try to find out what, if anything, had happened.

    While Turkish, U.S. and Iraqi officials denied any major incursion had taken place, a military source said Turkish troops conducted a limited raid across the mountainous border.

    While such operations are not uncommon, analysts said the incident focused attention on the possibility that recent attacks in Turkey blamed on the PKK could prompt major Turkish retaliation against rebels that use Iraq as a safe haven.

    Ankara blames the PKK for more than 30,000 deaths since the rebels launched their armed campaign for an ethnic homeland in southeast Turkey in 1984.

    The risk, analysts said, is that Turkey might become drawn into a wider conflict with Iraqi Kurds even if it initially sought to conduct a small-scale operation, and that other countries, including Iran, might also feel emboldened.

    "It could open a Pandora's box for the quagmire -- the fiasco -- in Iraq to turn into a regional quagmire, with regional countries starting to fight wars on Iraqi territory," said Brookings Institution analyst Omer Taspinar.

    Jon Alterman, director of the Middle East program at the CSIS think tank in Washington, said, "A complete mess in the North of Iraq creates problems for everything we are trying to do in Iraq. It creates problems for our deep defense relationship with Turkey and it creates an even more chaotic situation in a part of the world where we are desperate for less chaos."

    'UNFORSEEN CONSEQUENCES'

    The roughly 155,000 U.S. troops in Iraq are already stretched fighting the insurgency and the last thing Washington wants is fighting in northern Iraq, which won autonomy from Saddam Hussein in 1991 and is among the least violent parts of the country.

    The United States has made no secret of its views and U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates made the point again on Sunday, telling reporters he hoped "there would not be a unilateral military action across the border into Iraq."

    Analysts said there is growing public sentiment in Turkey for its government to do more to combat the PKK following a series of attacks, but they said there appears to be little appetite in Turkey for any major cross-border action.

    "Both the civilian and the military (leadership) do not really want to do an operation that the U.S. government strongly opposes. They have also learned a lesson from Israel's experience with Hezbollah in southern Lebanon, so they don't want to get into a situation where they are trapped or will be in a protracted conflict," said Zeyno Baran, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute think tank in Washington.

    "My concern is that at some point they will have to do something, which is probably going to be limited. The big question is that the intentions could be small scale but ... sometimes there are unforeseen consequences," she added.

    A U.S. official said the key indicator on what Ankara will do will be whether there are additional attacks inside Turkey blamed on the PKK. The group, which the United States views as a terrorist organization, killed seven paramilitary policemen in Turkey this week in the single deadliest attack in a year.

    "I think they are likely to hold back short of more significant terrorist attacks inside Turkey," the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter, said.


    This story is getting little play in the American press (Surprise, Surprise). If it becomes worse, it would pose a real problem for the U.S. It would pit two American allies, the Iraqi Kurds and the Turks, against each other. It would be just one more obstacle in attempts to stabilize Iraq.
    I can't run no more
    With that lawless crowd
    While the killers in high places
    Say their prayers out loud
    But they've summoned, they've summoned up
    A thundercloud
    They're going to hear from me - Leonard Cohen

  • #2
    The last thing the Turks want is an Independent Kurdistan...they have been fighting it's creation for years and would be hard pressed to accept one now. The Kurds believe a part of Turkey is theirs and want it back to add to the reclaimed Iraqi lands we helped them get. It can still get ugly.
    C.H.U.D.

    Comment


    • #3
      The Turks want to get into the E.U. The last thing they want to do is piss off one of their biggest backers for doing so.
      "There's a lot of interest in the draft. It's great. But quite frankly, most of the people that are commenting on it don't know anything about what they are talking about."--Ted Thompson

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by HarveyWallbangers
        The Turks want to get into the E.U. The last thing they want to do is piss off one of their biggest backers for doing so.
        Turkey getting to the EU, regardless of this, is a longshot any way. Economic divide within the country and political disagreements with many other member countries have strained discussions of acceptance into The EU. That's not even to mention the Turkish occupation of Cyprus.
        "I've got one word for you- Dallas, Texas, Super Bowl"- Jermichael Finley

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by BallHawk
          Turkey getting to the EU, regardless of this, is a longshot any way. Economic divide within the country and political disagreements with many other member countries have strained discussions of acceptance into The EU. That's not even to mention the Turkish occupation of Cyprus.
          It is a longshot, but that doesn't mean they aren't striving for it. Personally, I say let them in.
          "There's a lot of interest in the draft. It's great. But quite frankly, most of the people that are commenting on it don't know anything about what they are talking about."--Ted Thompson

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by HarveyWallbangers
            Originally posted by BallHawk
            Turkey getting to the EU, regardless of this, is a longshot any way. Economic divide within the country and political disagreements with many other member countries have strained discussions of acceptance into The EU. That's not even to mention the Turkish occupation of Cyprus.
            It is a longshot, but that doesn't mean they aren't striving for it. Personally, I say let them in.
            The US has supported adding Turkey to the EU, but a lot of pundits think that adding a Large Islamic Country to the EU would upset the balance and make things a lot more difficult for the other countries. I can see the cause for concern and tend to agree with them, but the human rights issues in Turkey are horrible and those defintely need to improve over the next few years. The issue with the Kurds is a big problem they need to sort out.

            However, this is all in naught unless Turkey recognizes Cyprus as an official county, Cyprus being an EU member.

            It's also of concern that only a very small amount of Turkey is in Europe. I believe it something less then 5%. If you allow Turkey in you have a member state that borders Syria, Iraq, and Iran. That could play out some awkward situations in the future.
            "I've got one word for you- Dallas, Texas, Super Bowl"- Jermichael Finley

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by HarveyWallbangers
              The Turks want to get into the E.U. The last thing they want to do is piss off one of their biggest backers for doing so.
              If they have to choose between joining the EU and preventing an independent Kurdistan, they may forego the EU. An independent Kurdistan carved out of southern Turkey and Northern Iraq could be a relatively powerful and rich country because a good portion of Iraq's oil wells are located in the Kurdish portion of Iraq.
              I can't run no more
              With that lawless crowd
              While the killers in high places
              Say their prayers out loud
              But they've summoned, they've summoned up
              A thundercloud
              They're going to hear from me - Leonard Cohen

              Comment


              • #8
                Not to mention the political crisis ongoing in the country with the new president and his wife's choice of clothing.
                Busting drunk drivers in Antarctica since 2006

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by falco
                  Not to mention the political crisis ongoing in the country with the new president and his wife's choice of clothing.
                  The President isn't really new, he's been in office for 7 years. Or do you mean Prime Minister Erdogan?
                  "I've got one word for you- Dallas, Texas, Super Bowl"- Jermichael Finley

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by falco
                    Not to mention the political crisis ongoing in the country with the new president and his wife's choice of clothing.
                    I believe he is talking about Islamic dress.
                    C.H.U.D.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BallHawk
                      Originally posted by falco
                      Not to mention the political crisis ongoing in the country with the new president and his wife's choice of clothing.
                      The President isn't really new, he's been in office for 7 years. Or do you mean Prime Minister Erdogan?
                      I'm actually talking about the new president elect, I believe, who was forced to resign the position when the generals of the country told him they wouldn't accept a president whose wife wore the traditional Muslim garb. I thought he had been elected, and now they are having new elections next month, but perhaps I was wrong and he was only a candidate.
                      Busting drunk drivers in Antarctica since 2006

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ah, I think I know who you're talking about now.
                        "I've got one word for you- Dallas, Texas, Super Bowl"- Jermichael Finley

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BallHawk
                          Ah, I think I know who you're talking about now.
                          It says a lot about the strength of your democracy when a series of generals has veto power over your executive branch.
                          Busting drunk drivers in Antarctica since 2006

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by falco
                            Originally posted by BallHawk
                            Ah, I think I know who you're talking about now.
                            It says a lot about the strength of your democracy when a series of generals has veto power over your executive branch.
                            Yeah, pretty sad, isn't it?
                            "I've got one word for you- Dallas, Texas, Super Bowl"- Jermichael Finley

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              My compliments, PackerRats.

                              This thread and the ensuing discussion is excellent and world clas, in my himble opinion!

                              Living in Europe, I am a front row witness to what you have been discussing.

                              I demand Turkey be admitted to the EU.

                              My best friend is a Turk. He saved my life! Literally. I will name him Rain ( Cause that's his name) for this.

                              Rain is the most educated person I have ever met. My family and I have been guests at Rain's house in Istanbul. He has servants. He has an elevator in his private home. Rain is wealthy.

                              Rain's mother was Jewish. His father was Moslim. Since apparently Jewish people feel only mothers guarantee birthright and Moslims hold Fathers in higher regard, Rain had it made from Day One. The Jews and t6he Moslims recognized him as one of their own!

                              As mentioned, Rain is the best person I have ever met. He is a Turk and he struggles in an international organization to be ragarded as a person and not a nationality.

                              Due to Rain's personality. and knowing his nationality, I am compltetely in favour of Turkey's admission to the EU.

                              I only wish Rain were their Prime Minister. Then, we wouldn't even be dicussing this. It would be so.

                              Comment

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