Why We Should Legalize Drugs

[Partial]

But to argue that any illegal substance is easier to come across than something that can be purchased in any state for 20 hours a day at every gas station, grocery store, restaurant, etc. is foolish.

If I wanted to go buy pot, i'd have to call someone up, find a spot to meet them, etc.

If I wanted to buy booze, I can walk down the street and purchase some and be back in 5 minutes.

[MadtownPacker]

But to argue that any illegal substance is easier to come across than something that can be purchased in any state for 20 hours a day at every gas station, grocery store, restaurant, etc. is foolish.

If I wanted to go buy pot, i'd have to call someone up, find a spot to meet them, etc.

If I wanted to buy booze, I can walk down the street and purchase some and be back in 5 minutes.

Maybe where you live that is the case but I get delivery like fucking Dominoes and it doesn't even take 30 minutes!

We live in different worlds P so I can't expect you to understand.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The problem in this country is we treat addition as a criminal problem instead of a medical one.

Does it really matter if it's treated as a criminal problem vs. a medical one? Everyone knows an addict (drugs or alcohol) won't stop until THEY make the decision to do so.

Of course it makes a difference. If you treat it as a medical problem...rehab, therapy, whatever is alot different than incarcerating.

ONLY if they WANT to get better. Most times rehab and therapy are used as a last ditch effort (excuse) to stay out of prison.

Before you make statements you should have some PROOF.

It is foolish to think that you won't have at least some success putting drug addicted criminals in therapy, rehab, etc over incarceration..which effectively does NOTHING.

Let's take a look at the facts:

AZ

In 1996, Arizonans voted in favor of Proposition 200, the Drug Medicalization Prevention and Control Act of 1996, which sends first and second time non-violent drug offenders to treatment rather than incarceration. According to a recent report conducted by the Supreme Court of Arizona, Proposition 200 saved Arizona taxpayers $6.7 million in 1999. In addition, 62% of probationers successfully completed the drug treatment ordered by the court.

CA

In 2000, the independent Legislative Analyst's Office (LAO) predicted that by treating rather than incarcerating low level drug offenders, SACPA would save California taxpayers approximately $1.5 billion over the next five years and prevent the need for a new prison slated for construction, avoiding an expenditure of approximately $500 million. LAO estimated that SACPA would annually divert as many as 36,000 probationers and parolees from incarceration into community-based treatment.

Already, progress reports show that tens of thousands of offenders have been placed in community-based treatment instead of jail thereby improving public health and saving the state hundreds of thousands of dollars. Regulation of treatment facilities has resulted in increased quality and accountability for hundreds of treatment programs, and the overall capacity of these facilities has increased.

Maryland

Maryland's new treatment law immediately diverts several thousand prisoners into drug treatment, saving the state's taxpayers millions of dollars a year in the process. It also provides $3 million in additional funding for treatment and gives judges new discretion in sentencing.

D.C.

In November 2002, an overwhelming 78 percent of DC voters passed the drug treatment initiative, Measure 62. Under Measure 62 the city will provide substance abuse treatment instead of conviction or imprisonment to non-violent defendants charged with illegal possession or use of drugs (except those drugs classified as Schedule I); provide a plan for rehabilitation to individuals accepted for substance abuse treatment; and provide for dismissal of legal proceedings for defendants upon successful completion of the treatment program.

You and the rest can continue down the path we have already trodden..and which has shown NO success. Wow, fighting a drug war since nixon. LOL Yep, kids certainly aren't trying drugs. LOL. Casual users have diminished..

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Who is making excuses for them. I just know that you are always going to have non productive (using your standards) citizens. Always been that way, always going to be that way.

This country is one that loves drugs and the quick fix...be it legal or illegal.

Incentives/Consequences: You are flat out wrong. We lock people up, we imprison them..sentences have gotten harsher...yet, we don't see a reduction in drug use. I'm sure you would advocate even more draconian measures..LOL. We tried prohibition and it FAILED..failed miserably.

Attractive: Who is making it such? I'm not advocating glamorizing drugs. I'm advocating treating it as a medical condition.

CracK: Dude, you need to get a sense of humor. Considering that Chappel was widely popular, i'd say that you are in the minority. Furthermore, addiction has a long history of humor...Arthur, Otis the town drunk, etc.

Get a grip.

Do you even believe the crap you post?

Yes, you are right ... I have no sense of humor. That has been obvious ever since I started posting here.

My point about crack addiction is not that it is off limits for all jokes, but that the reality of it is very different from the jokes and is very unfunny. Given your apparent position on the issue of addictive drugs, I'm inclined to believe that all you know about crack addiction comes from the Chappelle Show.

I don't support more draconian measures in the "drug war." If you re-read my post above, you might notice that I'm not opposed to legalization in the case of marijuana, which I understand to be no more harmful nor addictive than alcohol or cigs.

However, I don't support legalization of everything, and definitely don't support supplying drugs to addicts as a way of keeping them "under control."

I don't care if you think I'm wrong and you think absolutely no people make decisions based upon incentives and consequences. Your position is too far-fetched and (frankly) stupid to be shared by many others.

I completely believe what I say. Deterrence by sending people to jail doesn't work. If it did, why are all prisons more crowded than ever?

As for my knowledge of drugs...let's just say that I know more about drugs and that culture than you will ever know.

I believe, like most educated people on the subject of drugs that HARM REDUCTION is the way to go.

Harm reduction is a public health philosophy that seeks to lessen the dangers that drug abuse and our drug policies cause to society. A harm reduction strategy is a comprehensive approach to drug abuse and drug policy.

Harm reduction rests on some basic assumptions:

1. A basic tenet of harm reduction is that there has never been, is not now, and never will be a drug-free society.

2. A harm reduction strategy seeks pragmatic solutions to the harms that drugs and drug policies cause. It has been said that harm reduction is not what's nice, it's what works.

3. A harm reduction approach acknowledges that there is no ultimate solution to the problem of drugs in a free society, and that many different interventions may work. Those interventions should be based on science, compassion, health and human rights.

4. A harm reduction strategy demands new outcome measurements. Whereas the success of current drug policies is primarily measured by the change in use rates, the success of a harm reduction strategy is measured by the change in rates of death, disease, crime and suffering.

5. Because incarceration does little to reduce the harms that ever-present drugs cause to our society, a harm reduction approach favors treatment of drug addiction by health care professionals over incarceration in the penal system.

6. Because some drugs, such as marijuana, have proven medicinal uses, a harm reduction strategy not only seeks to reduce the harm that drugs cause, but also to maximize their potential benefits.

7. A harm reduction strategy recognizes that some drugs, such as marijuana, are less harmful than others, such as cocaine and alcohol. Harm reduction mandates that the emphasis on intervention should be based on the relative harmfulness of the drug to society.

8. A harm reduction approach advocates lessening the harms of drugs through education, prevention, and treatment.

9. Harm reduction seeks to reduce the harms of drug policies dependent on an over-emphasis on interdiction, such as arrest, incarceration, establishment of a felony record, lack of treatment, lack of adequate information about drugs, the expansion of military source control intervention efforts in other countries, and intrusion on personal freedoms.

10. Harm reduction also seeks to reduce the harms caused by an over-emphasis on prohibition, such as increased purity, black market adulterants, black market sale to minors, and black market crime.

11. A harm reduction strategy seeks to protect youth from the dangers of drugs by offering factual, science-based drug education and eliminating youth's black market exposure to drugs.

12. Finally, harm reduction seeks to restore basic human dignity to dealing with the disease of addiction.


Now, who is full of crap.

[BallHawk]

Legalize stuff like this and you'll have a real problem on your hands.

DALLAS, Texas (CNN) -- A cheap, highly addictive drug known as "cheese heroin" has killed 21 teenagers in the Dallas area over the past two years, and authorities say they are hoping they can stop the fad before it spreads across the nation.

"Cheese heroin" is a blend of so-called black tar Mexican heroin and crushed over-the-counter medications that contain the antihistamine diphenhydramine, found in products such as Tylenol PM, police say. The sedative effects of the heroin and the nighttime sleep aids make for a deadly brew.

"A double whammy -- you're getting two downers at once," says Dallas police detective Monty Moncibais. "If you take the body and you start slowing everything down, everything inside your body, eventually you're going to slow down the heart until it stops and, when it stops, you're dead."

Steve Robertson, a special agent with the Drug Enforcement Administration in Washington, says authorities are closely monitoring the use of "cheese" in Dallas.

Trying to keep the drug from spreading to other cities, the DEA is working with Dallas officials to raise public awareness about the problem. Authorities also are trying to identify the traffickers, Robertson says.

"We are concerned about any drug trend that is new because we want to stop it," he says.

Why should a parent outside Dallas care about what's happening there?

Robertson says it's simple: The ease of communication via the Internet and cell phones allows a drug trend to spread rapidly across the country.

"A parent in New York should be very concerned about a drug trend in Dallas, a drug trend in Kansas City, a drug trend anywhere throughout the United States," he says.

Middle schoolers acknowledge 'cheese'

"Cheese" is not only dangerous. It's cheap. About $2 for a single hit and as little as $10 per gram. The drug can be snorted with a straw or through a ballpoint pen, authorities say. It causes drowsiness and lethargy, as well as euphoria, excessive thirst and disorientation. That is, if the user survives.

Authorities aren't exactly sure how the drug got its name "cheese." It's most likely because the ground-up, tan substance looks like Parmesan cheese. The other theory is it's shorthand for the Spanish word "chiva," which is street slang for heroin.

By using the name "cheese," drug dealers are marketing the low-grade heroin to a younger crowd -- many of them middle schoolers -- unaware of its potential dangers, authorities say.

"These are street dealers, dope dealers," Moncibais recently warned students at Sam Tasby Middle School. "They give you a lethal dose. What do they care?"

Moncibais then asked how many students knew a "cheese" user. Just about everyone in the auditorium raised a hand. At one point, when he mentioned that the United States has the highest rate of drug users in the world, the middle schoolers cheered.

"You know, I know being No. 1 is important, but being the No. 1 dopeheads in the world, I don't know whether [that] bears applause," Moncibais shot back.

Authorities say the number of arrests involving possession of "cheese" in the Dallas area this school year was 146, up from about 90 the year before. School is out for the summer, and authorities fear that the students, with more time on their hands, could turn to the drug.
'Cheese' as common a problem as pot

School officials and police have been holding assemblies, professional lectures, PTA meetings and classroom discussions to get the word out about the drug. A public service announcement made by Dallas students is airing on local TV, and a hotline number has been created for those seeking assistance.

Drug treatment centers in Dallas say teen "cheese" addicts are now as common as those seeking help for a marijuana addiction. "It is the first drug to have even come close in my experience here," says Michelle Hemm, director of Phoenix House in Dallas.

From September 2005 to September 2006, Phoenix House received 69 "cheese" referral calls from parents. Hemm says that in the last eight months alone, that number has nearly doubled to 136. The message from the parents is always, "My kid is using 'cheese,' " she says.

Phoenix House refers them to detoxification units first, but Hemm says at least 62 teens have received additional treatment at her facility since last September.

Fernando Cortez Sr. knows all too well how devastating cheese heroin can be. A reformed drug user who has spent time in prison, Cortez had spoken to his children about the pitfalls of drug use. He thought his 15-year-old son was on the right track.

But on March 31, his boy, Fernando "Nando" Cortez Jr., was found dead after using cheese heroin.

"I should have had a better talk with him," he says. "All it takes is once. You get high once and you die, and that's what happened to my son."

He knows it's too late for his son. Now, he is using his son's story to help others.

"All I can do is try to help people now. Help the kids, help the parents."

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Legalize stuff like this and you'll have a real problem on your hands.

DALLAS, Texas (CNN) -- A cheap, highly addictive drug known as "cheese heroin" has killed 21 teenagers in the Dallas area over the past two years, and authorities say they are hoping they can stop the fad before it spreads across the nation.

"Cheese heroin" is a blend of so-called black tar Mexican heroin and crushed over-the-counter medications that contain the antihistamine diphenhydramine, found in products such as Tylenol PM, police say. The sedative effects of the heroin and the nighttime sleep aids make for a deadly brew.

"A double whammy -- you're getting two downers at once," says Dallas police detective Monty Moncibais. "If you take the body and you start slowing everything down, everything inside your body, eventually you're going to slow down the heart until it stops and, when it stops, you're dead."

Steve Robertson, a special agent with the Drug Enforcement Administration in Washington, says authorities are closely monitoring the use of "cheese" in Dallas.

Trying to keep the drug from spreading to other cities, the DEA is working with Dallas officials to raise public awareness about the problem. Authorities also are trying to identify the traffickers, Robertson says.

"We are concerned about any drug trend that is new because we want to stop it," he says.

Why should a parent outside Dallas care about what's happening there?

Robertson says it's simple: The ease of communication via the Internet and cell phones allows a drug trend to spread rapidly across the country.

"A parent in New York should be very concerned about a drug trend in Dallas, a drug trend in Kansas City, a drug trend anywhere throughout the United States," he says.

Middle schoolers acknowledge 'cheese'

"Cheese" is not only dangerous. It's cheap. About $2 for a single hit and as little as $10 per gram. The drug can be snorted with a straw or through a ballpoint pen, authorities say. It causes drowsiness and lethargy, as well as euphoria, excessive thirst and disorientation. That is, if the user survives.

Authorities aren't exactly sure how the drug got its name "cheese." It's most likely because the ground-up, tan substance looks like Parmesan cheese. The other theory is it's shorthand for the Spanish word "chiva," which is street slang for heroin.

By using the name "cheese," drug dealers are marketing the low-grade heroin to a younger crowd -- many of them middle schoolers -- unaware of its potential dangers, authorities say.

"These are street dealers, dope dealers," Moncibais recently warned students at Sam Tasby Middle School. "They give you a lethal dose. What do they care?"

Moncibais then asked how many students knew a "cheese" user. Just about everyone in the auditorium raised a hand. At one point, when he mentioned that the United States has the highest rate of drug users in the world, the middle schoolers cheered.

"You know, I know being No. 1 is important, but being the No. 1 dopeheads in the world, I don't know whether [that] bears applause," Moncibais shot back.

Authorities say the number of arrests involving possession of "cheese" in the Dallas area this school year was 146, up from about 90 the year before. School is out for the summer, and authorities fear that the students, with more time on their hands, could turn to the drug.
'Cheese' as common a problem as pot

School officials and police have been holding assemblies, professional lectures, PTA meetings and classroom discussions to get the word out about the drug. A public service announcement made by Dallas students is airing on local TV, and a hotline number has been created for those seeking assistance.

Drug treatment centers in Dallas say teen "cheese" addicts are now as common as those seeking help for a marijuana addiction. "It is the first drug to have even come close in my experience here," says Michelle Hemm, director of Phoenix House in Dallas.

From September 2005 to September 2006, Phoenix House received 69 "cheese" referral calls from parents. Hemm says that in the last eight months alone, that number has nearly doubled to 136. The message from the parents is always, "My kid is using 'cheese,' " she says.

Phoenix House refers them to detoxification units first, but Hemm says at least 62 teens have received additional treatment at her facility since last September.

Fernando Cortez Sr. knows all too well how devastating cheese heroin can be. A reformed drug user who has spent time in prison, Cortez had spoken to his children about the pitfalls of drug use. He thought his 15-year-old son was on the right track.

But on March 31, his boy, Fernando "Nando" Cortez Jr., was found dead after using cheese heroin.

"I should have had a better talk with him," he says. "All it takes is once. You get high once and you die, and that's what happened to my son."

He knows it's too late for his son. Now, he is using his son's story to help others.

"All I can do is try to help people now. Help the kids, help the parents."

That is point 10 of harm reduction.

This is what happens all the time when you make drugs illegal.

[Tarlam!]

Crack (and all those synthetic things that have entered the market like it) were man made substances designed to addict people on the first few usages.

They were designed to be inexpensive, but to hook you. The dealers introducing this new stuff used the law of supply and demand.

That law still exists today. If the supply exeeds the demand, the prices drop and the markets consolidate.

Let's say a selection of soft to hard drugs were made legal, including some designer drugs like ecstasy. Let's say the F&D introduced specifications for there manufatcure and they were made prescription. Crack is no longer needed, nor is meth. And the pill poppers no longer need to die from a "bad trip"

At that point you have control. Gang war fueled by drugs ceases. Break and entry to finance drugs ceaase. Social workers can actually go to work.

Look at how the use of tobacco has been reduced by a focussed effort of controlling where and when it can be consumed. Stigmatiznig it, but not banning it.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Crack (and all those synthetic things that have entered the market like it) were man made substances designed to addict people on the first few usages.

They were designed to be inexpensive, but to hook you. The dealers introducing this new stuff used the law of supply and demand.

That law still exists today. If the supply exeeds the demand, the prices drop and the markets consolidate.

Let's say a selection of soft to hard drugs were made legal, including some designer drugs like ecstasy. Let's say the F&D introduced specifications for there manufatcure and they were made prescription. Crack is no longer needed, nor is meth. And the pill poppers no longer need to die from a "bad trip"

At that point you have control. Gang war fueled by drugs ceases. Break and entry to finance drugs ceaase. Social workers can actually go to work.

Look at how the use of tobacco has been reduced by a focussed effort of controlling where and when it can be consumed. Stigmatiznig it, but not banning it.

I don't disagree, but question your thought process about manufacturing. All drugs are manufactured...cultivated, improved upon (today's pot is much stronger than that of the 60s).

Crack is no different than coke. Coke is manufactured. You just don't grind up Coca leaves and get coke. Crack is just a different delivery system for the drug..prepackaged freebase essentially.

Meth is the same. You can find them in nature (obviously without the potency). Hello Khat, huang, etc.

Amphetamines were originally synthesized in Germany in 1887, but were not put to common use until the 1930's, when it was developed for bronchodilation. Sold as an inhaler it was widely used to treat asthma, hay fever and colds. Not only was the Benzedrine Inhaler enormously successful, its marketing an OTC pill form for epilepsy, narcolepsy, night blindness and mood elevator, brought it into mainstream use in a big way.

During WW II and Vietnam, troops were routinely given "pep" pills to help combat fatigue and stress. Over 7 million of these were distributed to combatants on both sides of the conflict. Adolf Hitler was reportedly heavily addicted to methamphetamine, and this has caused historians to speculate that many of his more atrocious acts were in fact triggered by his usage of meth.

As for crack I don't disagree that dealers and such realized that its super potency lead to more repeat sales in a shorter sales cycle.

To me legalizing drugs takes quite a bit of the glamour from them. Any child or immature person is always drawn to that which they are told they can't have.....couple that with false info (reefer madness, crack babies, etc.) and people don't believe anything authorities tell them.

Most people aren't going to do drugs regardless of the legality, just as most people don't smoke tobacco anymore...because we put out the word and educated them. On that point you are exactly right.

Those who haven't travelled overseas often don't understand that. When you can drink at age 12 or so, it takes away the allure/rite of passage that we have here regarding alcohol. Same thing with pot. Young people in amsterdam for the most part don't smoke alot of pot...why? Cause it is in pot cafes..and it is boring to them. It is passe.

[Tarlam!]

I agree with you TB, but I am not really sure what I should be questioning....

[Scott Campbell]

Crack (and all those synthetic things that have entered the market like it) were man made substances designed to addict people on the first few usages.

Speaking of addictive synthetics, how is Veronica?

[Mazzin]

I personally don't belive that any drug, OTHER THAN the sweet sticky cheeba should be legalized.

After a long day of school, and work there isn't anything in this world more relaxing than kicking back, and blazing one up.


Don't knock it till ya try it!

[the_idle_threat]

I completely believe what I say. Deterrence by sending people to jail doesn't work. If it did, why are all prisons more crowded than ever?

As for my knowledge of drugs...let's just say that I know more about drugs and that culture than you will ever know.

I believe, like most educated people on the subject of drugs that HARM REDUCTION is the way to go.

Harm reduction is ...

*Blah blah blah blah*









etc.

Now, who is full of crap.

You, Tyrone. Definitely you.

I could take your word for it that you "know more about drugs and that culture than [I] will ever know," because from the sound of your arguments, you sound like a druggie yourself who is desperate to make excuses for addiction and advocate "understanding" for your cause.

But I'm inclined to point out that you have absolutely no idea what I know.

Your "Harm Reduction" ramblings read like a corporate mission statement, not a coherent plan of action. If you think that explains how to deal with addiction, then I certainly don't believe you are educated on the subject.

Unless you consider cruising druggie websites an "education."

[GrnBay007]

Before you make statements you should have some PROOF.

It is foolish to think that you won't have at least some success putting drug addicted criminals in therapy, rehab, etc over incarceration..which effectively does NOTHING.

Let's take a look at the facts:

Anyone can google and can find any stats they want to find to support their views. The proof I have in making my statements is what I've witnessed for a long time. Addicts do not benefit from treatment unless they WANT to make changes. And yes, you do have some people that get rehab who didn't necessarily want to go that may benefit....but that number is very small. And....almost always the addict has many, many opportunities to go to treatment before it actually comes time for prison. A 30 day inpatient drug treatment for a meth addict? Sorry, that's not working. And the good news is many prisons do offer drug treatment. The meth/crack addict is off the streets for a year or so and is getting treatment while their at it....what a deal!! As for marijuana...legalize possession of small amounts (recreational use).

[Kiwon]

And the good news is many prisons do offer drug treatment. The meth/crack addict is off the streets for a year or so and is getting treatment while their at it....what a deal!!

That is good news. Both/and, not either/or. Now aren't the U.S. taxpayers generous and forgiving? In China, they'd shoot them and sell their organs.

[GrnBay007]

Now aren't the U.S. taxpayers generous and forgiving? In China, they'd shoot them and sell their organs.

Reduced price depending on the harshness of the drug. :P