Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Ready for a market correction?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Ready for a market correction?

    Lately I moved a bunch of money out of stocks into gold and other commodities as well as more into bonds. I still own some stocks in my 401k/IRA plans but have really changed my risk % as of late.

    Here was an interesting read I found:

    The Takeover Boom, About to Go Bust

    By Steven Pearlstein
    Wednesday, June 13, 2007; D01

    To understand why there's a credit bubble, how it's inflating the price of stocks and what it will mean for you when it bursts, let's consider the acquisition of Avaya, a large telecommunications equipment maker, announced last week by two private-equity firms, Texas Pacific Group and Silver Lake Partners.

    Avaya is expected to post revenue of about $5.4 billion this year. It has virtually no debt and has $825 million in the bank. Operating earnings -- profit before counting things like interest payments, taxes, depreciation and amortization -- are expected to reach $700 million. And if that's correct, it means the price being paid for Avaya, $8.2 billion, is 12 times operating profit, making it one of this season's richest deals.

    What's driving such high valuations is cheap debt, and plenty of it. We don't know yet how the all-cash purchase of Avaya will be financed, but if it follows the pattern of other recent buyouts, the new owners will take on at least $6 billion in debt. Given the junk-bond rating that has already been assigned to the deal, that is likely to work out to an average interest rate of about 8 percent, along with the obligation to pay back 1 percent of principal every year. Add it all together, and the new, improved Avaya will have to pay about $540 million more a year in debt service than it does now.

    Can the company handle that? Well, consider that only three years ago, Standard & Poor's calculated that operating profits for companies involved in leveraged buyouts were typically 3.4 times debt service. Last year, the number fell to 2.4. So far this year, it is 1.7.

    And the Avaya deal? It's 1.3 to 1, which, if you think about it, isn't much of a cushion if revenue suddenly falls or expenses rise more than expected. Nor would there be much cash left over for the company to increase its investment in research or pay for new plant and equipment.

    In other words, a deal like this would never get financed in normal times. Bank lenders and bondholders would demand that the new owners use more of their own money and take on less debt. Or they would demand interest rates so high that the company, as presently configured, wouldn't be able to generate enough cash to cover debt service. Either way, the buyers would never have agreed to pay $8.2 billion.

    But these are not normal times, and overpriced and over-leveraged deals like Avaya have been getting financed in record numbers. Back in 2004, about $275 billion in loans were issued for such highly leveraged transactions. By last year, that had risen to $490 billion. And in just the first five months of 2007, that record was broken.

    At some point sanity will be restored, triggered by any number of events. A high-profile acquisition could collapse because the new owners could not secure financing. Or a deal could blow up after it is discovered that there's really not enough cash to meet the debt payments. Or interest rates could suddenly rise from their current low level, threatening the viability of recently acquired companies and making it unlikely that the new owners will be able to sell for anything close to what they paid.

    In fact, over the past several weeks, all those things have begun to happen.

    On the bond market, yields on the benchmark 10-year Treasury bill have increased from just under 4.5 percent to more than 5.25 percent -- a three-quarters-of-a-point jump without any action by the Federal Reserve.

    And just last week, William Gross, one of the country's leading bond investors, recanted on his prediction that interest rates were headed down, warning instead that yields on 10-year Treasurys could reach 6.5 percent over the next several years.

    Syndicated loans used to finance the recent purchases of the Minneapolis Star Tribune, Linens 'n Things and Freescale, a semiconductor maker, are trading at significant discounts only months after the deals were closed, after the companies reported disappointing earnings or cash flow.

    Meanwhile, the Wall Street Journal reported that after a period in which lenders were throwing money at leveraged buyouts with few if any conditions, several private-equity buyers are having more trouble financing their deals. Those include KKR's $26 billion acquisition of First Data and Texas Pacific's purchase of JVC, the struggling consumer electronics giant.

    It is impossible to predict when the magic moment will be reached and everyone finally realizes that the prices being paid for these companies, and the debt taken on to support the acquisitions, are unsustainable. When that happens, it won't be pretty. Across the board, stock prices and company valuations will fall. Banks will announce painful write-offs, some hedge funds will close their doors, and private-equity funds will report disappointing returns. Some companies will be forced into bankruptcy or restructuring.

    But the damage won't be limited to Wall Street and its investors. For if we've learned one thing in the past 20 years, it is that what happens on financial markets, in booms and in busts, can have a big impact on the rest of the economy.

    Without the billions of dollars flowing each year to financiers and corporate executives, there will be less money to trickle down to car salesmen, yacht makers, real estate agents, third-home builders and busboys at luxury resorts.

    Falling stock prices will cause companies to reduce their hiring and capital spending while governments will be forced to raise taxes or reduce services, as revenue from capital gains taxes declines.

    And the combination of reduced wealth and higher interest rates will finally cause consumers to pull back on their debt-financed consumption.

    It happened after the junk-bond and savings-and-loan collapses of the late 1980s. It happened after the tech and telecom bust of the late '90s. And it will happen this time.

    The recent decline in home prices and the meltdown in the market for subprime mortgages are the first signs that the air is coming out of the credit bubble. Already, those factors have shaved half a percentage point off the economic growth rate. And you can be sure that there will be a much larger impact on jobs and incomes from a broad decline in stock and bond prices, a sharp tightening of credit and the turmoil that both of those will create in the murky derivatives markets.

    Steven Pearlstein will host a Web discussion today at 11 a.m. at washingtonpost.com. He can be reached atpearlsteins@washpost.com.
    C.H.U.D.

  • #2
    I have been thinking about moving some of our retirement money to different investments. I have half of our funds in international investments and right now I think they are carrying too much risk. Our funds are up 20% for the year, which is my goal every year, so since I reached it I'm think of moving money to more conservative funds. I would never move money to gold or bonds. I'm far too young and if I wantedd the returns they give I'd stick my money in a savings account. Yes credit is tightening and the housing market is in the pits, but the economy always has an area in the down turn of a cycle. I'm a believer in the stock market, and that it's the real way to grow money (outside of starting your own business). If you do your research and pick the right asset allocation for your risk tolerance you should do well. Your risk tolerance might be really low so gold and bonds might be right for you, but I would do more research than just this article before dumping a lot of your money in gold or bonds.

    Comment


    • #3
      The next big market correction = the next good buying opportunity!

      Comment


      • #4
        What does the Ouiji Board say about the Stock Market?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by LL2
          but I would do more research than just this article before dumping a lot of your money in gold or bonds.
          Well duh! Please.

          I'm probably a few years older than you are so have much more to lose if there is a big dump and am caught in the middle. Don't get me wrong, I've made a ton of money in the stock market...the last 18 months or so have been amazing! but there are many signs out that are pointing to a large downturn. I want to be in position to take advantage of it. When I first started buying gold seriously it was in 98/99 and it has done very well since then. Before that it was penny Canadian mining stocks. $$$

          Did you say Voodoo or Ouiji?
          C.H.U.D.

          Comment


          • #6
            Freak,

            You sound like a guy I'd really enjoy talking to. I do some stock research, but not nearly as much as I'd like to. Last week I went to Morningstar, studied my 401K investments, and completely shuffled around my mutual fund allocations.

            I only own about seven stocks now; was on top of the world in the NET craze and then lost my ass, only to make a little profit in the end overall.
            Still read my share of articles and have been considering subscribing to Jon Marksman's newsletter at a stiff price of $200 per year. His articles seem to be dynamic and his picks seem to be pretty solid from what I've read.

            Curious as to what type of investing you do and what outlets you use to research specific stocks ???
            TERD Buckley over Troy Vincent, Robert Ferguson over Chris Chambers, Kevn King instead of TJ Watt, and now, RICH GANNON, over JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY LEONARD. Thank you FLOWER

            Comment


            • #7
              Take a guess from where the 'Private Equity' firms are getting their money.
              "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Freak Out
                Well duh! Please.
                Is this your personal or professional opinion?

                Would you mind sharing your current percentage breakdowns between stocks, bonds, gold, cash equivalents?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bretsky
                  Still read my share of articles and have been considering subscribing to Jon Marksman's newsletter at a stiff price of $200 per year. His articles seem to be dynamic and his picks seem to be pretty solid from what I've read.

                  Curious as to what type of investing you do and what outlets you use to research specific stocks ???
                  You should check out the newsletters at www.fool.com. I subscribe to the Champion Funds newsletter and think it's worth the $150 a year. I'm a DIY type when it comes to investing and love to read finance stuff. Most financial planners scare me and do not think they know more than I do, although I'm sure a decent percent do but most I wouldn't trust giving my money too.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by LL2
                    Originally posted by Bretsky
                    Still read my share of articles and have been considering subscribing to Jon Marksman's newsletter at a stiff price of $200 per year. His articles seem to be dynamic and his picks seem to be pretty solid from what I've read.

                    Curious as to what type of investing you do and what outlets you use to research specific stocks ???
                    You should check out the newsletters at www.fool.com. I subscribe to the Champion Funds newsletter and think it's worth the $150 a year. I'm a DIY type when it comes to investing and love to read finance stuff. Most financial planners scare me and do not think they know more than I do, although I'm sure a decent percent do but most I wouldn't trust giving my money too.
                    Thank you for the url; I also read about other newsletters they have.

                    Right now I'm looking for the newsletter to help me look for a couple stock home runs. I'd doing ok via the traditional methods...401K/IRA..etc....

                    In search of something outside of the norm to help me identify stocks; of course we are all looking for the next Hansen of the past five years or DELL from earlier years. Easier said than done of course.

                    Cheers,
                    B
                    TERD Buckley over Troy Vincent, Robert Ferguson over Chris Chambers, Kevn King instead of TJ Watt, and now, RICH GANNON, over JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY LEONARD. Thank you FLOWER

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yo, so what can I do to be a high powered stock owning Nabisco?

                      I always read this threads when you guys talk about $$$ but don't post in them cuz I don't have any info to contribute. What would be a good starting point?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kiwon
                        Originally posted by Freak Out
                        Well duh! Please.
                        Is this your personal or professional opinion?

                        Would you mind sharing your current percentage breakdowns between stocks, bonds, gold, cash equivalents?
                        I don't base my investment strategy off of one persons opinion. I just thought it was a good read and that's why I shared it.

                        And I learned never to give buy recommendations.
                        C.H.U.D.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bretsky
                          Freak,

                          You sound like a guy I'd really enjoy talking to. I do some stock research, but not nearly as much as I'd like to. Last week I went to Morningstar, studied my 401K investments, and completely shuffled around my mutual fund allocations.

                          I only own about seven stocks now; was on top of the world in the NET craze and then lost my ass, only to make a little profit in the end overall.
                          Still read my share of articles and have been considering subscribing to Jon Marksman's newsletter at a stiff price of $200 per year. His articles seem to be dynamic and his picks seem to be pretty solid from what I've read.

                          Curious as to what type of investing you do and what outlets you use to research specific stocks ???
                          I first got into the market like many do..I guess? Through an employers stock purchase plan. I worked for a drilling company (oil) for many years and got to buy company stocks at a big discount as part of my compensation package. When I first started doing it I was VERY naive about investing in the stock market and would have lost out on some big opportunities if it was not for a friend/coworker who kind of took me by the hand and showed me the ropes. When I bought my first company stock the price was about $6...pretty cheap, and I bought as much as I could afford to buy down to $4 and then back up to about $45 over a 26 month period and then sold for a big profit. After that I just bought and sold company stocks following a pretty amazing historical cycle. It was almost a joke among the company officers and directors as to how much money you could make. The company started offering 401k type packages soon after and I invested in those as well, in a very conservative manner I might add. The things I like most about my 401k and IRA plans that I first got through the drilling company were all the cool tools that come with the investment. The research tools are amazing. The problem with the 401k/IRA plans is that it takes to much time to move stuff around and you can get burned fast if you are not careful so I have always played it pretty safe with that money.
                          It is very hard (for me at least) to recommend subscribing to one newsletter or group just like I will never tell someone to buy a certain stock just because they could lose their ass. I bought a bunch of SRS once, the company who does the WoW music technology... and it was a very good deal and they had just signed up with Microsoft blah blah blah...I told two friends about it. I started buying in at around $6 bucks or so and bought through about $26-$30. I think it went as high as $40 or so...and then crashed with all the other Tech stocks. I sold it all on the way down and made some good money. They never sold and called me freaking when they found out it was about $2 and change! Ooops. That was the last time I ever told anyone about a stock they should buy.
                          As far as newsletters and things like that go $200 is a good deal considering how much can be made but if you are going to put a bunch of money in you might be better off paying someone to manage it for you.

                          As always....buy low and sell high my friend.
                          C.H.U.D.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mraynrand
                            Take a guess from where the 'Private Equity' firms are getting their money.
                            They can get it from many places but are you referring to Pension Funds?
                            C.H.U.D.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by LL2
                              Originally posted by Bretsky
                              Still read my share of articles and have been considering subscribing to Jon Marksman's newsletter at a stiff price of $200 per year. His articles seem to be dynamic and his picks seem to be pretty solid from what I've read.

                              Curious as to what type of investing you do and what outlets you use to research specific stocks ???
                              You should check out the newsletters at www.fool.com. I subscribe to the Champion Funds newsletter and think it's worth the $150 a year. I'm a DIY type when it comes to investing and love to read finance stuff. Most financial planners scare me and do not think they know more than I do, although I'm sure a decent percent do but most I wouldn't trust giving my money too.
                              The Fools are good. Funny to boot.
                              C.H.U.D.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X