A History Lesson

[mraynrand]

Must be nice for you to dismiss Clarke's assertion that Bush wanted/demanded a link between the two.

It's tempting to dismiss a lot of what Clarke has said. CYA much? It's interesting that you're willing to accept Clarke's assertions as absolute truth, but you don't give the same consideration to say, British intelligence, just for example.

The people who voted for going into Iraq knew the distinction between Iraq being operationaly involved and being a threat independent of 911, they decided that Iraq was certainly more relevant and immediate a threat because of 911. The reason we are supposed to have reps is that they deal with things that the average citizen either can't become an expert at or doesn't have the clearance to view. Plus, the average person can listen to the various arguments for the war, which included many things other than 911. The average citizen realized that the bar had been lowered. The average citizen understood the basic similarity and common threat of a terrorist supporter, WMD user like Saddam and the same bastards who carried out 911, whether Saddam was giving Bin Laden double coupons or not.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Must be nice for you to dismiss Clarke's assertion that Bush wanted/demanded a link between the two.

It's tempting to dismiss a lot of what Clarke has said. CYA much? It's interesting that you're willing to accept Clarke's assertions as absolute truth, but you don't give the same consideration to say, British intelligence, just for example.

The people who voted for going into Iraq knew the distinction between Iraq being operationaly involved and being a threat independent of 911, they decided that Iraq was certainly more relevant and immediate a threat because of 911. The reason we are supposed to have reps is that they deal with things that the average citizen either can't become an expert at or doesn't have the clearance to view. Plus, the average person can listen to the various arguments for the war, which included many things other than 911. The average citizen realized that the bar had been lowered. The average citizen understood the basic similarity and common threat of a terrorist supporter, WMD user like Saddam and the same bastards who carried out 911, whether Saddam was giving Bin Laden double coupons or not.

The british/blair were in bed with bush. Most foreign intelligence didn't back up any of this admin's assertion. Nor did our own CIA. Let's just count how many times this admin put those words back in speeches.

Even today, the right wingers are still linking 9/11 and Saddam. Just had ads out with pics of both in the ad.

I think you give the senate/congress way to much credit. They are briefed just like citizens. They were given flawed evidence.

Average citizen doesn't know squat, and this admin exploited it. The average citizen still believes saddam and 9/11 are linked.

[mraynrand]

I think you give the senate/congress way to much credit. They are briefed just like citizens. They were given flawed evidence.

That's both funny and frightening that you believe this.

Do you concede that there existed people prior to the war that were fully informed as possible, without being mislead in any way by the Bush administration, that had the best interests of the U.S. as their overwhelming guiding criteria, who were in favor of ousting Saddam?

[Kiwon]

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?p=148375&highlight=#148375

[Freak Out]

Yo Kiwon...
I thought of you last night as I was driving back from Denali and the CD changer in my ride went Tango Uniform...I was forced (well...not really) to listen to an AM talk radio station that was the only thing that would come in for about 80 miles.... it was a show with that Savage guy and all he could talk about was bombing Iran to dust....he said he has been dreaming every night about nuking Iran with as many bombs as we can throw at them and that he prays every morning that his dreams have come true.

Do you have those same dreams my friend? Does the image of a fried Ayatollah give you morning wood?

It was funny and frightening listening to Savage, His guests and the calls that would come in to the show for an hour or so, thankfully I was able to pick up a station with MNF just south of Talkeetna.

[Kiwon]

Yo Kiwon...

...that was the only thing that would come in for about 80 miles.... it was a show with that Savage guy and all he could talk about was bombing Iran to dust....

....thankfully I was able to pick up a station with MNF just south of Talkeetna.

Oh my gosh, 80 miles of listening to Michael Savage is torture. Are you okay? No blurry vision or suicidal thoughts?

I'm no fan of "The Savage Nation." After listening to him, I think everyone in San Francisco is crazy, liberal or conservative. You need to spring for satellite radio, specifically Sirius since I own their stock.

Like my new avatar? That's a real picture of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad checking in with the Grand Ayatollah Khomeini. Reminds me of Darth Vader consulting the Emperor in "Star Wars."

Any other time we would have already attacked Iran over their many provocations or at least begun a campaign to aid reformers that want to topple the government. But we are going to wait until a crisis is impending as usual.

Israel bombed Syria and degraded their nuclear capacity recently and the world did not stop spinning. Iran is coordinating terrorist activities around the world, including the manufacture of armor-piercing IEDs that are killing our troops and training Iraqi Shite militia groups.

When you hear the president of France warn of war with Iran then you know that they are up to some serious no-good.

[Kiwon]

Here's an interesting little tidbit...
.................................................. ..........................................

'Dozens died in Syrian-Iranian chemical weapons experiment'

Proof of cooperation between Iran and Syria in the proliferation and development of weapons of mass destruction was brought to light Monday in a Jane's Defence Weekly report that dozens of Iranian engineers and 15 Syrian officers were killed in a July 23 accident in Syria.

According to the report, cited by Channel 10, the joint Syrian-Iranian team was attempting to mount a chemical warhead on a Scud missile when the explosion occurred, spreading lethal chemical agents, including sarin nerve gas.

link to article

[mraynrand]

Michael Savage is a cross between Howard Beal and Jonathan Swift.

[Kiwon]

Michael Savage is a cross between Howard Beal and Jonathan Swift.

mraynrand, unreal.

You need to change your moniker to "Conservative, Eclectic Rat."

We aren't worthy.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think you give the senate/congress way to much credit. They are briefed just like citizens. They were given flawed evidence.

That's both funny and frightening that you believe this.

Do you concede that there existed people prior to the war that were fully informed as possible, without being mislead in any way by the Bush administration, that had the best interests of the U.S. as their overwhelming guiding criteria, who were in favor of ousting Saddam?

Congress/senate: Have you actually heard some of them. C'mon, they are no different than the rest of us, other than having alot of ambition and/or money.

I'm quite sure you are aware that many prominent families sent the "idiot" son into politics so as to gain advantages, but more importantly not screw up the business.


Concede: I will agree that there are people who have the best interes...ousting saddam. What i also believe is that they were also fed misleading evidence that swayed them as to what action to take. Those people are the ones authorizing change.

The people you refer to are in the military/intelligence field..which for the most part didn't feel that saddam posed much of a threat to us.

[Freak Out]

Michael Savage is a cross between Howard Beal and Jonathan Swift.

Well I definitely heard a little mad as hell in my 80 miles but I don't remember anything resembling Swift. Maybe it was an off night.

[mraynrand]

I think you give the senate/congress way to much credit. They are briefed just like citizens. They were given flawed evidence.

That's both funny and frightening that you believe this.

Do you concede that there existed people prior to the war that were fully informed as possible, without being mislead in any way by the Bush administration, that had the best interests of the U.S. as their overwhelming guiding criteria, who were in favor of ousting Saddam?

Congress/senate: Have you actually heard some of them. C'mon, they are no different than the rest of us, other than having alot of ambition and/or money.

Yes, they are human. But they are humans who get briefed on confidential materials that the rest of us don't see. Isn't that obvious? They knew much more than the 'average American' and voted for the war.

Your military claim is a bit of chicanery. The military thought that Saddam didn't pose much of a threat - of course - he was ousted in 3 weeks. he was no military threat. Neither was the Taliban. Saddam's military capabilities were not the reason for overthrowing him. The miliray estimated that his rockets plus his older anthrax would only kill about 800 Israelis if launched into tel aviv. That wasn't considered "much of a threat" either. The bombing of the WTC (twice) wasn't much of a military threat either. Saddam's proven track record of supporting terrorism, allowing terrorists safe haven (including terrorists that bombed the WTC in '93) and continuing to (at the very least) convey the appearance of running WMD prrogams, U.N. violations, etc. etc. were the reasons for ousting him.

[Freak Out]

Ok Kiwon...a little more news involving your favorite Iranian leader.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09/19/iranian-leader-seeks-to-visit-ground-zero/index.html?hp

[Kiwon]

Having the United Nations based in the U.S. brings these awkward moments when the U.S. public has to bend over and grab their ankles as dictator and thug leaders get to come into "enemy territory" and play it up for all its worth.

So this piece of crap wants to go to the WTC site? What's next, visiting the Memorial to the Holocaust that he claims never happened?

Oh, it'll be a fun few days as he and Chavez will rip Bush in every way possible. The media will report it with relish. Anything to embarass Bush.

If Bush were a wild cowboy as portrayed, he would let this guy leave the country until the American citizens that they are holding in Iran are released.

Now, if we could only arrange Ahmadinejad to attend a NYC policemen's or firemen's union meeting while he's in New York.

[Scott Campbell]

Having the United Nations based in the U.S. brings these awkward moments when the U.S. public has to bend over and grab their ankles as dictator and thug leaders get to come into "enemy territory" and play it up for all its worth.

I don't mind that so much as the abuse of diplomatic immunity.