Over/Under On The Thompson Bashers

[Bretsky]

Too much hate in here.

Best to just eat the popcorn and hope the thread fizzles.

It didn't take a rocket scientist to know this thread would lead to plenty of quarrels from the second you saw the title.

[retailguy]

I agreed with you, just adding on i spose. I wouldnt agree with the "remotely negative" part tho. I'm probably seen as one of the optimists, but Ive posted plenty of negatives without getting bashed too hard. Just cant keep beating the dead horse without someone lashing out.

Actually, I used remotely negative purposely and here's why:

You have two examples from above that state they didn't have a problem with what Zach said (Ziggy & Partial). If they had an issue they'd have weighed in. Then someone else would have had an issue to what they said and chimed in too. Then it gets repeated adinfinitum...

If you have an opinion, not shared by the majority of posters/readers/responders, you'll hear about it many, many, many times. The more negative/gloomy/or repeated, the more the responses. After the multiple responses, and some banter from the original poster about why they believed they were correct, or why they thought what they did, then one of the responders will "brand" you with the negative label, and on and on and on it goes. From that point on, EVERYTHING that person said is viewed through those glasses. Hence, the "majority" keeps the "minority" in line with it's viewpoint, and teaches them not to speak freely, or worse educates them that if they do speak, there is a cost to be paid in the form of ridicule (which was the purpose of Shadow's topic to begin with). It also seems to be teaching others (less frequent posters) to "judge" what they can say, and what they cannot say.

Somewhat the nature of forums perhaps, but also, there is a piece where "likeminded" folks like to hear that they, and their opinion, are in fact correct. No one likes to be wrong, but sometimes when you talk about your opinions, you are in fact wrong, that's why they call it an opinion... lol

Don't believe me? Revert to the original post, and Shadow's basic point - I WAS CORRECT and the rest of you fools just didn't believe me. IT IS WEEK FOUR, for heavens sake. Lots can still happen, however, but Shadow decided that TODAY, all of those "negativists" need to own up to the "facts" right now, no more waiting because it's clear. We don't need to watch the team play the other 12 games, because today at 4-0 his "opinion" is forever validated, even if the team goes off the ski slope and ends the year at 4-12, I guess...

But lets not lose sight of the original point, a poster with 72 posts and some significant time here as a member "felt" he was going to get bashed for saying something most of us think is reasonable. How many others KEEP SILENT because of the same perspective? This is my concern. I had a permanent flak jacket installed six months ago, and I'll always be covered in teflon the way it looks, and that's fine, you can't keep me from telling you over and over and over what I think. Sadly, you won't lose me, I'll still be here. But, how many have posted, been bashed/branded/ridiculed/contridicted never to return because it is just not worth it?

I just want to hear what more people like Zach think, and less about what people like Shadow and JH think. It looks like Zach's discussion is missing and not likely to return any time soon.

[woodbuck27]

Re: Over/Under On The Thompson Bashers

We (the so called and labeled TT haters. . .Haha) are the fact based, truthfully accountable objective posters that only want the Packers to move towords winning and real growth.

These kind of statements remind me of when I bought my second car when I was about 19. I remember dealing with the used car salesman "Honest Bill Kowalski". He kept telling me how he would never steer me wrong.

I am no car salesman Scott. Simply a concerned Packer fan that can see clearly that we need more fr. our GM for a secured future.

GO PACK GO !

[PackerBlues]

Well golly......wish I would have gotten to this post sooner.


I do not think anyone should be taking an "I told you so" point of view on anyone else right now. People who were upset with Thompson had reasons to be.


You can start with the running game. I was one of the people bitching about Thompson not improving the running game. Certain people said screw it, because they had faith that Thompson knew what he was doing, and the running game would be ok. Those same people are now upset, that the Packers do not have the running game they thought we would have. In my opinion, we were all right, and wrong at the same time. I think Thompson was ok with the running game being half-ass, because he was planning on having Favre carry the load with a pass-heavy Offense. I think it's working great, and I could care less about the run game now.


Another thing some people were pissed at Thompson about, was Randy Moss. While some of us wanted Moss for his big play potential, his veteran skills, and depth, others said they did not want him because he was washed up, to costly, and a locker room nightmare. Looks like us "Thompson Bashers" were right to want Moss. Thing is, we really do not seem to need him. So again, everyone was right and wrong at the same time, in one way or another.


I think that a lot of us are awful damned happy with what this team has accomplished so far. I do not think anyone would have thought that our Packers would be 4-0 right now, without a run game, and using a Pass-Heavy Offense. Not one singe one of the "Thompson Supporters" ever suggested that what we have now is what they expected all along. I think if anyone would have suggested that Thompson was building the Offense the way he was........to build what we have now, they would have been laughed out of the forums. I am so freaking pleasantly surprised with our Offense, that I am shocked that it is all because of a guy that I spent the entire pre-season bashing. If this is what Thompson had planned all along, putting so much trust in Favre, ..............wow, I am impressed, and I do have new found respect for Thompson. (I still want Moss!!! )

[the_idle_threat]

I think Shadow and JH can be excessively combative at times, but all in all I enjoy reading what they think.

Some of the folks on the other side of the debate can be very in-your-face at times also, including those who Shadow was calling out here. That being said, they add to the diversity of opinion in this forum, and they give as good as they get, so I don't see a problem.

I'm not too worried about those who are (supposedly) too meek to post because they're over-sensitive regarding criticism. If they can't take the heat, they'll stay out of the kitchen. If we baby-proof this place, it will get pretty boring pretty fast.

[the_idle_threat]

Well golly......wish I would have gotten to this post sooner.


I do not think anyone should be taking an "I told you so" point of view on anyone else right now. People who were upset with Thompson had reasons to be.


You can start with the running game. I was one of the people bitching about Thompson not improving the running game. Certain people said screw it, because they had faith that Thompson knew what he was doing, and the running game would be ok. Those same people are now upset, that the Packers do not have the running game they thought we would have. In my opinion, we were all right, and wrong at the same time. I think Thompson was ok with the running game being half-ass, because he was planning on having Favre carry the load with a pass-heavy Offense. I think it's working great, and I could care less about the run game now.


Another thing some people were pissed at Thompson about, was Randy Moss. While some of us wanted Moss for his big play potential, his veteran skills, and depth, others said they did not want him because he was washed up, to costly, and a locker room nightmare. Looks like us "Thompson Bashers" were right to want Moss. Thing is, we really do not seem to need him. So again, everyone was right and wrong at the same time, in one way or another.


I think that a lot of us are awful damned happy with what this team has accomplished so far. I do not think anyone would have thought that our Packers would be 4-0 right now, without a run game, and using a Pass-Heavy Offense. Not one singe one of the "Thompson Supporters" ever suggested that what we have now is what they expected all along. I think if anyone would have suggested that Thompson was building the Offense the way he was........to build what we have now, they would have been laughed out of the forums. I am so freaking pleasantly surprised with our Offense, that I am shocked that it is all because of a guy that I spent the entire pre-season bashing. If this is what Thompson had planned all along, putting so much trust in Favre, ..............wow, I am impressed, and I do have new found respect for Thompson. (I still want Moss!!! )

PB=The voice of reason? :P

[Partial]

You have two examples from above that state they didn't have a problem with what Zach said (Ziggy & Partial). If they had an issue they'd have weighed in. Then someone else would have had an issue to what they said and chimed in too. Then it gets repeated adinfinitum...

If you have an opinion, not shared by the majority of posters/readers/responders, you'll hear about it many, many, many times. The more negative/gloomy/or repeated, the more the responses.

Bitching and moaning gets very, very old after awhile. You have taken the same sarcastic approach that rubs people the wrong way all off-season and now into the season. Everyone makes their own persona here. Whether you're a negativist or a kool-aid drinking SOG(son of a gun) like Nick Collins, you'll hear about it either way.

People get consistently torn down when they keep bitching about the same damn thing and not saying anything constructive at all. Your sarcastic fashion certainly affects posters opinions and it puts that negative spotlight on yourself.

Essentially, you are what you make yourself out to be. You're looked at as a TT hater because thats how your posts come across. Whether thats your intention or not, perception is everything. It's not like you made one snide comment once. You did multiple times a day, day in and day out without acknowledging the good that goes with the bad.

Just to play devil's advocate, by saying it is jumping to conclusions that we're a good team after 4 weeks, it should also be considered jumping to conclusions that letting green walk, the concerns about our running game, etc are all a bit premature this season. After all, we've only played 4 games. Guys that would rather watch football and break it down than bitch about it like myself and I suspect Harv have reason to believe based on what we've seen that we may end up being a pretty solid running team when all is said and done.

[retailguy]

I think Shadow and JH can be excessively combative at times, but all in all I enjoy reading what they think.

Some of the folks on the other side of the debate can be very in-your-face at times also, including those who Shadow was calling out here. That being said, they add to the diversity of opinion in this forum, and they give as good as they get, so I don't see a problem.

I'm not too worried about those who are (supposedly) too meek to post because they're over-sensitive regarding criticism. If they can't take the heat, they'll stay out of the kitchen. If we baby-proof this place, it will get pretty boring pretty fast.

I'm not talking about "baby proofing" one bit, but I think you know that. There is a point of being civil and courteous that has disappeared, or is rapidly disapearing. I don't think most of us would refer to "civility" as baby proofing.

I've done the best I know how to leave the "drama" out of my posts above. I do not know if I've succeeded as I have some strong views on the topic.

Here is a real example. JH has told me multiple times that my "sarcasm" ticks him off. I guess he can't help himself when my take on something "reeks" of sarcasm. I'm not changing, it's how I view the situation, and he's not changing, for probably the same reasons, but somewhere we've lost respect for each other. I have ZERO respect left for him or his opinions. I try hard to ignore what he says, UNLESS, he comes after me or my point of view. Then I respond. I'm sure it is the same for others.

But, if you've read what Packer Blues has to say above, then you know that we can be right, and wrong. I've taken more heat for my perspective on Ahman Green than any other member of this forum. I was bitching about it on March 3rd and haven't really changed my opinion since that day.

I was right, and I was wrong. I was convinced we would not be able to run the ball, and to week 4 I've been correct. I was equally convinced that we'd be affected by not being able to run the ball. To week 4, I've been wrong about that and 4-0 indicates that. But, we've got 12 games yet to play and BOTH of those perspectives might yet change. Talk to Shadow, or JH, though, and I'm a damn negative fool who couldn't see, much less hit, the broad side of the barn. Talk to me, and I'll tell you that they don't understand that you can't win sustained over a longer period WITHOUT running. Who is right? We'll see, won't we?

[arcilite]

I would think that the majority of the people in here read most of the posts and do not reply. Those people are, and have been, the cautiously optimistic people.

That is me.... even though I have loved TT from day one.

[The Shadow]

[quote="retailguy"]

Hence, the "majority" keeps the "minority" in line with it's viewpoint, and teaches them not to speak freely, or worse educates them that if they do speak, there is a cost to be paid in 1. the form of ridicule (which was the purpose of Shadow's topic to begin with). It also seems to be teaching others (less frequent posters) to "judge" what they can say, and what they cannot say.


Don't believe me? Revert to the original post, and Shadow's basic point - 2. I WAS CORRECT and the rest of you fools just didn't believe me. IT IS WEEK FOUR, for heavens sake. Lots can still happen, however, but Shadow decided that TODAY, all of those "negativists" need to own up to the "facts" right now, no more waiting because it's clear. We don't need to watch the team play the other 12 games, because today at 4-0 his "opinion" is forever validated, even if the team goes off the ski slope and ends the year at 4-12, I guess...

1. Nope. Not ridiculing anyone. Just countering the months of TT-bashing on every single move the guy makes - while never giving him an iota of credit for the team's development.
Someone even actually claimed in an earlier post that it was Brett Favre ALONE who was solely responsible for the team's success.
I am simply pointing out that many of us reserve the right to disagree with the single-minded Thompson haters who can't stand to see his plan for the team successfully folding.
Of COURSE it's early - but does not 4-0 seem infinitely better than 0-4?

2. Nonsense. I am not alone. Many, many of us have refused to kowtow to the blind, vitriolic TT hate when our eyes and ears could plainly see the team was improving. It is only right and fair that the bleating of the chronic negatives is allowed to be countered by a reminder of the facts.

[bbbffl66]

I said it last week, and I'll say it again. I was apparently wrong about TT. But not getting Moss still bothers me!

[Zool]

What bothers me is the running game. I lay it about 50/50 on the oline and the RB's. In the NFL backs have to make someone miss, and the Oline has to open holes. Maybe the ZBS isnt the way to go, or maybe losing Jagz is hurting us more than we know in the run game. He was supposed to be the man to teach it.

The problem I always had with Moss is what does he do if the team he's on starts losing?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Some of the folks on the other side of the debate can be very in-your-face at times

wait ... which side is that? is the other side like the opposite sex?

If we baby-proof this place, it will get pretty boring pretty fast.

well, maybe putting covers over the electric outlets wouldn't be a bad idea. somebody libel to stick a fork or tongue in there.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The problem I always had with Moss is what does he do if the team he's on starts losing?

ya, that's true. but a risk worth taking for the Pats. Or the Packers.

[the_idle_threat]

I'm not talking about "baby proofing" one bit, but I think you know that. There is a point of being civil and courteous that has disappeared, or is rapidly disapearing. I don't think most of us would refer to "civility" as baby proofing.

Fair enough.

I agree that we sometimes lose track of civility on this board and it's a shame when it happens. But I think this board is better than most at getting back on track. Just about everyone here makes a post with a hard edge to it once in a while, but for the most part we have a sense of community here that brings things around.

The "baby-proofing" idea comes from the rather hypothetical idea that we have lurkers here who are afraid to post for fear of being mocked and ridiculed. I don't buy it, or perhaps a better way to put it is that I think this board is better than any other I've seen at welcoming new viewpoints rather than squashing them. We're not perfect, but who is?