Oxymoron - Intelligence and the Media

[Kiwon]

Support Bush policies=Patriotism

Oppose Bush Policies=Support The Terrorists

Succinctly stated, very good. That's exactly the way the jihadists see it.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Support Bush policies=Patriotism

Oppose Bush Policies=Support The Terrorists

Succinctly stated, very good. That's exactly the way the jihadists see it.

Exactly, that is why it is imperative that we elect bush again, forget term limits. Only he can save us.

If not him, i'm sure a suitable republican is up for the job.

[RashanGary]

Really, does anybody think Hillary Clinton hates America? Does anyone think she wants troops to die? Many Liberals disagree with the war and want it stopped. That is not an attack on the troops. It's an attack on the decision maker. The mentality and intellectual shortcomings of a person who can truely believe that liberals hate America (or troops) is baffling to me.

John Murtha is the new liberal whipping boy for the underground right wing (who I believe shed a very negative light on much of the republican party). He has a history of not wanting to be in war. Believe him or not, he says it's because he does not like the brutality and tragedy that goes with it. The easy thing to do is to draw a line in the sand and get on some entertainment driven side of the arguement and have an old fashioned us against them mentality. I'm not a big fan of killing people, so I tend to side with the "prevent war at all costs" ideology and I tend to give teh benefit of the doubt to politicians who think this way. I really don't understand the "Al Queda attacked us, let's get Iraq" mentality. With that said, I tend to understand a person who has been in the Vietnam war, and sees the true tragedy and then just wants to get out. He said that our troops committed some wrongs (something that happens in all war) while under pressure. I don't know how many of you have been in a fight, but once a fight starts, it's hard to stop because you don't want to be hurt. There is a "I'm not stoppping until you can't move" mentality, just out of self preservation. That is what I've experienced, anyway. I can imagine if I was breaking down a door with a miliary weapon in my hand, searching for the enemy that I would feel some "pressure" to preserve my life. I'd kick open the door and shoot anythign that moves if I was just being fired at. Really, it's you or them. You're forced into war by the decision makers, you might as well try to stay alive. Murtha said some of our troops committed some tragedy's while under pressure and to be honest, it probably happened a lot even if it didnt' happen in this particular instance. That is no knock on the troops, it's an unfortunate part of being in war (told by someone who has been there) and I thought the point he was making was "lets get out because this happens in war". Instead of taking his words for what they were, the conservative media ran with it as anti American and here we are bitching back and forth about a pretty irrelivant issue during a very important time. It's embarassing for me, as a conservative, to hear our main arguement be something so twisted, biased and quite frankly; untrue.

Newt is the most inspiring candidate and he's not entering. After economic issues (sadly), I'm also pretty big on anti killing (abortion or war). I'm almost considering voting for Hilary because republicans are just so pathetic right now as far as not focusing on the econoimic issues or life saving issues or our time. If I do decide to vote for Hillary, I'm going to start a "don't vote for women" mentality online in hopes of inspiring women to vote. This way, I get 1000's of votes through reverse phychology rather than just one vote

[the_idle_threat]

I'm also pretty big on anti killing (abortion or war).

Fact 1: I supported the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and still do. I don't think everything has gone well, but that's to be expected because real life is messy.

Fact 2: I support abortion rights.

Fact 3: I strongly support 2nd Amendment rights, and believe it is an individual right rather than a collective right to be exercised by the National Guard (are there any other rights in the Bill of Rights that are only to be exercised by government entities rather than the individual people)?

Verdict: I am apparently pretty big on pro-killing.

Just wanted to clear that up.

[mraynrand]

Don't you understand, Tyrone?

Support Bush policies=Patriotism

Oppose Bush Policies=Support The Terrorists

My favorite part is how the WHOLE Gov't is out to get Bush. Including the Homeland Secutity...which HE created, and put his guy in charge. Oh lord.

Well, I guess i wasn't fair...HUD, Dep't of Ag, etc. don't appear to be to get him, but I wouldn't put it past them...sneaky bastards.

Bush just isn't on the same page as the rest of the Govt. Condi basically ousted any remaining so-called neo-cons from the State Dept. They have different goals than Bush. The experiment has been tried - you can't build a democracy from the top down, but it's still very possible to make a stable Iraq that is a good ally of the U.S.

[Joemailman]

It's hard for me to decide what Bush is thinking. I've always believed that the Iraq war was more Cheney's idea than it was Bush's. Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz were all members of PNAC, Bush was not. I suspect if Bush could do it all over again, he would stay out Of Iraq, but that is not the case with Cheney.

Rice has been able to increase her influence because the neocons have been discredited because nearly all their predictions about what would happen in Iraq have been proved wrong. I think Rice probably has more in common with the foreign policies of George H.W. Bush. I think Bush's problem is it is difficult for him to make a clean break from the neocons without making it appear that he thinks the Iraq war was a big mistake. There fore I think the President is just playing the string out until the end of his Presidency. He knows he can't fix Iraq, but is afraid of what kind of chaos will ensue if he packs up and leaves.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Don't you understand, Tyrone?

Support Bush policies=Patriotism

Oppose Bush Policies=Support The Terrorists

My favorite part is how the WHOLE Gov't is out to get Bush. Including the Homeland Secutity...which HE created, and put his guy in charge. Oh lord.

Well, I guess i wasn't fair...HUD, Dep't of Ag, etc. don't appear to be to get him, but I wouldn't put it past them...sneaky bastards.

Bush just isn't on the same page as the rest of the Govt. Condi basically ousted any remaining so-called neo-cons from the State Dept. They have different goals than Bush. The experiment has been tried - you can't build a democracy from the top down, but it's still very possible to make a stable Iraq that is a good ally of the U.S.

So, you are in agreement with Kiwon. NSA, CIA, FBI, Homeland Security are all out to bet Bush...not now, but since 9/11..that is what he posited.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

It's hard for me to decide what Bush is thinking. I've always believed that the Iraq war was more Cheney's idea than it was Bush's. Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz were all members of PNAC, Bush was not. I suspect if Bush could do it all over again, he would stay out Of Iraq, but that is not the case with Cheney.

Rice has been able to increase her influence because the neocons have been discredited because nearly all their predictions about what would happen in Iraq have been proved wrong. I think Rice probably has more in common with the foreign policies of George H.W. Bush. I think Bush's problem is it is difficult for him to make a clean break from the neocons without making it appear that he thinks the Iraq war was a big mistake. There fore I think the President is just playing the string out until the end of his Presidency. He knows he can't fix Iraq, but is afraid of what kind of chaos will ensue if he packs up and leaves.

I don't think Bush looks at the war as mistake. He has had ample time to at least tell us what were mistakes made, yet none have ever been mentioned.

Right now, our best hope is that Laura and barney withdraw their support of the war.

[Joemailman]

Tyrone, your argument suggests that if Bush felt the war was a mistake, he would publicly admit it. I think not.

[MJZiggy]

Has he admitted a single mistake since he took office?

[Freak Out]

Has he admitted a single mistake since he took office?

I think there was the mistake with him not chewing the pretzel before swallowing.....I still don't understand how you get claw/nail marks on your face from choking on a piece of food though.

[Joemailman]

He might have panicked if he was choking. People do strange things when they panic. I once choked on a piece of pizza crust, and was alone. That's the closest I've ever felt to death. I was trying to cough it up and so little air was coming through that I was making a high whistling sound at first.

What a strange twist this thread has taken.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Tyrone, your argument suggests that if Bush felt the war was a mistake, he would publicly admit it. I think not.

Joe,

You have seemingly drawn the exact opposite meaning from what i intended.

[Kiwon]

What a strange twist this thread has taken.

You can say that again!