John Murtha (Doing his best or hating his country)

[Freak Out]

I don't think a number of dems are trying to hurt the country with their war opposition. But I do think Murtha's a bad guy - but that predates the Iraq war by a generation. ABSCAM!

Ha ha..ABSCAM! What a shocker......corrupt politicians. Sorry..they were the dumb ones that get caught sometimes.

Harrell...many are naive about what goes on in Washington.

[mraynrand]

Murtha wasn't ignored because the press continually supports the anti war position.

the press like Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity? Those guys go after him because he has credibility.

The right wing isn't trying to portray him as a liberal, but as a fucking liar and scoundrel, which he is.

well, I don't know what you are talking about, you may have something specific in mind. But Murtha has been very straight forward and consistent for four years (at least prior to this fall, when he became conciliatory with Republicans.) He has been attacked by the right for his very clear, even simplistic, positions.

If I didn't know better, I'd be tempted to say you have no idea what you are talking about. But there must be another explanation.

He's been attacked for the same reasons a lot of these guys get attacked - for presuming Marines guilty of atrocities until proven innocent. He, like Durbin assumed the worst, and he was blasted for it. It didn't matter whether he was right about the facts or wrong (which he turned out to be), the point is that he assumed the Marines were guilty of misconduct and then publicly denounced them. And of course, there was that little ABSCAM thing. Why defend this piece of garbage? There are plenty of respectable dems who don't support the war (e.g. Webb, Shuler) to whom you could attach your anti-war carriage.

[Harlan Huckleby]

ABSCAM was almost 30 years ago! Several people went to prison, but not Murtha.

Murtha made stupid remarks about the marines in spring of last year. Murtha is not the sharpest tool in the toolbox, no doubt about that.

I find this character assasination crap pointless. Maybe Murtha is a sleazeball, maybe he isn't. The whole purpose of the attacks are to discredit the positions he takes on issues without having to discuss the merits.

[RashanGary]

He's been attacked for the same reasons a lot of these guys get attacked - for presuming Marines guilty of atrocities until proven innocent. He, like Durbin assumed the worst, and he was blasted for it. It didn't matter whether he was right about the facts or wrong (which he turned out to be), the point is that he assumed the Marines were guilty of misconduct and then publicly denounced them. And of course, there was that little ABSCAM thing. Why defend this piece of garbage? There are plenty of respectable dems who don't support the war (e.g. Webb, Shuler) to whom you could attach your anti-war carriage.

I think his main attacks were on the tragedy's of war. Murtha was in Vietnam, he knows a little something about the horrors of war. He assumed that the troops went in and shot unarmed residents of a home they were breaking into (maybe because he knows how easily it can happen when you are trying to protect your life and you have a deadly weapon in your hand). He never called the troops evil or bad. He said the committed an atrosity in the face of severe pressure. Have you ever been in that situation? I'll bet a lot of troops did things they regretted because of the pressure to stay alive. Let's say you're getting fired at. Now you breaking into a house that you think people are trying to kill you from. You kick down the door, and there is a some aggressive movement, out of fear (the pressure of war), you fire and kill an innocent person.

For Murtha to bring that up, is really no knock on the soldier. The soldier is trying to stay alive. They make mistakes while under extreme pressure. I thought that is what Murhta was trying to say. I thought that was why he added the pressure part. I thought the whole jab was at the administration for putting our troops in such a bad situation when we were not at risk. It got twisted way out of porportion by talk radio like every other attack on the administration. It's very similar to Barry Bonds using his kid as a human shield. The right uses troops as the human shield, making every attack on Bush seem like an attack on the troops if at all possible.

[RashanGary]

Horrible, ungodly damage occurs in war. Some of our pilots drop bombs on babys heads. Some break down doors and in the pressure of war they kill a few innocent kids.

The media and "left" as you say, play this up because they picture these poor innocent people dying the awfull deaths and they (as constituants of the United States) would rather use any ulternate means of getting a job done before attacking another country.



The troops are just the right's human shield. How can you attack Bush's war decisions; how would that make the soldiers feel? ? ? If that's not disgusting spin, I don't know what is.

[mraynrand]

ABSCAM was almost 30 years ago! Several people went to prison, but not Murtha.

Murtha made stupid remarks about the marines in spring of last year. Murtha is not the sharpest tool in the toolbox, no doubt about that.

I find this character assasination crap pointless. Maybe Murtha is a sleazeball, maybe he isn't. The whole purpose of the attacks are to discredit the positions he takes on issues without having to discuss the merits.

No. The purpose of the attacks were to castigate him for assuming the worst about the Marines with spotty info prior to investigation. He was attacked specifically on the demerits of his positions - both the premature judgment of the Marines (presumed guilty) and his 'plan' for a fall back position in Okinawa were stunningly naive. Durbin, Kerry, and Reid were also attacked for the words they used to wrongly describe the troops, not necessarily their 'position' regarding Iraq. Murtha is a sleazeball - there's no 30 year statute of limitations on that.

The overall main problem with many Dems and their position(s) on the war is that they've been wholly irresponsible, with the exception of a few that I know of - like the aforementioned Webb and Shuler. You could add Joe Biden too. As much as I dislike Biden, at least he's taken a position on the situation in Iraq based on credible knowledge and stuck with it. His position actually has a long term plan for Iraq and a strategy to withdraw. Others, like Murtha, presented vague, naive withdrawal plans and never had their feet held to the fire about planning for likely eventualities following U.S. withdrawal.

JH, when war supporters use the 'don't question the war because it demoralizes the troops' argument, they should be blasted for it. But that's very different than blasting politicians who accuse the troops of misdeeds based on preliminary and sketchy info or accusing the troops of deliberate killing of civilians. The far left blogosphere is chock full of lies about the role of U.S. troops in civilian casualties in Iraq. It's shameful. And when guys like Durbin, Kerry and Reid take their orders from these far left nuts - or just echo them, that's deplorable and they should be called out on it.

[RashanGary]

Politics is pretty disgusting. I hope you hold the right to the same fire when they use their deplorable god tactics to win over christians.

YOu think Rudy Giuliani is a devote christian? I'll bet he plays that role over the next few months. You think that is admirable? He's already acting like he's against abortion to appease christian conservatives.

As far as Murtha's comments. Again, he wasn't calling the troops evil. He was saying the backlash of war is evil and the actions done under pressure are awfull. That's not a knock on the person doing it, it's a knock on the people who put the person under the pressure that causes it. Get out of Iraq and troops won't be forced to kill people (some undeservingly out of pressure)

[Kiwon]

Murtha's a fucking liar. You can believe him if you want, but I don't trust a damn thing outta that guy's pie hole. Murtha wasn't ignored because the press continually supports the anti war position. He would have been ignored if he had been pro war. The right wing isn't trying to portray him as a liberal, but as a fucking liar and scoundrel, which he is.

July 2007 - "It's rhetoric, it's an illusion." (Response to reports of progress in Iraq)

November 21, 2007 - "We can't win militarily."

Four-day trip to Kuwait, Iraq, Turkey, Belgium over Thanksgiving

November 30, 2007 - "I think 'The Surge' is working..."

Shhh...... Don't tell anyone that Joe Lieberman and John Murtha now agree.

[Freak Out]

Four-day trip to Kuwait, Iraq, Turkey, Belgium over Thanksgiving

November 30, 2007 - "I think 'The Surge' is working..."

Shhh...... Don't tell anyone that Joe Lieberman and John Murtha now agree.

A four day trip? I'm surprised he could tell what time it was let alone whether or not the surge was working.