THE draft thread (2013 version)

[Gunakor]

I'd love Dysert here. So it won't be.

[RashanGary]

Rontez Miles

[pbmax]

Barrington, Sam OLB 6'1" 246 South Florida

[Badgerinmaine]

I hope so
I looked it up. It was even worse than I thought there. Danny O'Brien left and transferred to Wisconsin (and did not work out well). They then proceeded to lose not two, not three but FOUR quarterbacks to season ending injuries: http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/10/maryland-quarterbacks-four-up-and-four-down-for-the-terrapins-81591.html (http://http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/10/maryland-quarterbacks-four-up-and-four-down-for-the-terrapins-81591.html)
And yeah, they did have to start a true freshman linebacker at QB: http://www.testudotimes.com/2012/12/13/3761456/maryland-footballs-season-in-review-quarterbacks (http://http://www.testudotimes.com/2012/12/13/3761456/maryland-footballs-season-in-review-quarterbacks)
So considering how much better Dorsey was before this patchwork crew was throwing to him...he just might be a diamond in the rough.

[RashanGary]

37" vert and 10'2" broad at his proday. . . . Explosive guy.

[RashanGary]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiB5MdtvgQ0

[rbaloha1]

37" vert and 10'2" broad at his proday. . . . Explosive guy.

Bigger olb to hold-up the edge.

[pbmax]

Dunne at JSO Tweeted him as an ILB

[pbmax]

Dougherty also thinks he looks like an ILB. Going to need to hear from coaches.

[RashanGary]

Carries himself like a leader of the Black Panthers. Plays mean as fuck too.

[red]

well, now we have 8 rb's,15 wr's, 30 OG's, and 19 OLB's

to go along with

3 tackles, one has been hurt since we drafted him, one sucks and one is decent.
1 center, who sucks
1 backup QB who sucks
2 inside LB's, and we're trying to trade one of them

would have been nice to diversify a bit

[pbmax]

Bigger olb to hold-up the edge.

He is smaller than 3 of the other OLBs. I think he is an ILB unless they like him small and fast on the edge like Moses.

[Badgerinmaine]

Here he is being interviewed before last season: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1ncTNj-is4

[rbaloha1]

After reviewing the video looks more like an ilb.

Banger and a hitter. Hopefully replaces Hawk and not Bishop.

Whys is this guy a seventh rounder?

[RashanGary]

The first OL we picked is a tackle. Bet on it.

[pbmax]

well, now we have 8 rb's,15 wr's, 30 OG's, and 19 OLB's

to go along with

3 tackles, one has been hurt since we drafted him, one sucks and one is decent.
1 center, who sucks
1 backup QB who sucks
2 inside LB's, and we're trying to trade one of them

would have been nice to diversify a bit

The two new OGs you have will start out at Tackle and Center most likely.

[Badgerinmaine]

Carries himself like a leader of the Black Panthers. Plays mean as fuck too.
Sounds good to me. I liked what I heard in the interview I listened to.

[rbaloha1]

He is smaller than 3 of the other OLBs. I think he is an ILB unless they like him small and fast on the edge like Moses.

Moses is weak against the run.

TT is currently speaking.

[rbaloha1]

http://www.packers.com/media-center/live-webcasts.html

[RashanGary]

Ted Thompson "Our quarterback is a pretty good player, he doesn't need very much help"

LMAO

[red]

The two new OGs you have will start out at Tackle and Center most likely.

thats great that one or two guys say those two can play LT or center. everything i'm reading from everyone else says they are both guards in the NFL. and i don't think either has even player center before

need a center? draft a fucking center. great centers were available in this draft

thats my biggest gripe with TT. he drafts guys that are squares and have been squares their whole careers, and he tries to shove them into the triangle hole

need a triangle, draft a triangle, need a circle, draft a circle. don't draft a 4th tier square and try and make him a circle

[wist43]

Just looked up the LB'er turd TT drafted - CBS had him ranked as the 593rd player, LOL

TT - you go girl!!!

[pbmax]

Pete Dougherty
Thompson on barrington: athletic, good size, has capability to play outside and inside linebacker in 3-4.

[wist43]

This just keeps gettin worser and worser... amazing to watch TT operate, lol

[woodbuck27]

Anyone get:

OLB Sam Bearington, Fr. Lower Staffer Community College (or is that correct?) in S. Florida ?

Mae says that he finished High School. He loves sandlot football. He played RB at Terry Parker HS, Barrington, Florida.

He ran for 1188 yards and 17 TD's on 108 carries. He also played LB and had 109 tackles; 5 SACKs and 1 Pick and 2 FF's...add 2 fumble recoveries and 6 pass breakups.

Forget Margus Hunt !! This is 'the REAL DEAL'.

Sam 'the Bear' Bearington ...otherwise 'the Bear'.

Mae says his hands are large but that he's a tad slow...at 4.91 for the 40 yard ...ahhhhhhh ...dash.

There's more....

Mae says that he's not weak...22 Reps and a 32 1/2 inch Vert....a broad jump of 9' - 9".

Another TT ... Diamond in the rough.

Thank God this edition of the 2013 draft is overrrrrrrrr !

Now someone please ... Give TT a massage. Toss some money in a cap. He is in bad need of a 2 week vacation. I'm thinking a canoe trip for him and his partner in Kalazoo Junction, West Virginia.

Ted loves great banjo music. Ted can dance.

[rbaloha1]

thats great that one or two guys say those two can play LT or center. everything i'm reading from everyone else says they are both guards in the NFL. and i don't think either has even player center before

need a center? draft a fucking center. great centers were available in this draft

thats my biggest gripe with TT. he drafts guys that are squares and have been squares their whole careers, and he tries to shove them into the triangle hole

need a triangle, draft a triangle, need a circle, draft a circle. don't draft a 4th tier square and try and make him a circle

IMO EDS is fine.

Larry McCarren agrees with you -- constant flip flopping of positions leads to breakdowns.

[pbmax]

thats great that one or two guys say those two can play LT or center. everything i'm reading from everyone else says they are both guards in the NFL. and i don't think either has even player center before

need a center? draft a fucking center. great centers were available in this draft

thats my biggest gripe with TT. he drafts guys that are squares and have been squares their whole careers, and he tries to shove them into the triangle hole

need a triangle, draft a triangle, need a circle, draft a circle. don't draft a 4th tier square and try and make him a circle

Has he ever drafted a Center? I am just telling you where it looks like they will line up at minicamp.

No one though Newhouse would be a tackle either.

[wist43]

Ted Thompson "Our quarterback is a pretty good player, he doesn't need very much help"

LMAO

Well, if Rodgers gets sacked another 51 times this year (which he will) - we're gonna get some good tape of Graham Harrell.

[red]

Has he ever drafted a Center? I am just telling you where it looks like they will line up at minicamp.

No one though Newhouse would be a tackle either.

newhouse shouldn't be a tackle

and no, he never has drafted a center, thats my point. hell, he might not have ever drafted a guard either

he has drafted about 20 so-so LT's and tried to turn them into centers and guards and RT's

[red]

i'm thinking its time to move bulaga back to his natural position LT

he's the best tackle we have, get him on the blind side

[wist43]

What are the odds that Mr. 4.91 forty, is nothing more than training camp fodder, special teams fodder, or practice squad fodder??

We already have 68 guys like Bearington.

Can you redraft a guy after you cut him?? I vote for Caleb Schlauderaff - just cause I like the name.

[RashanGary]

TT gave us absolutely nothing in that press conference. He didn't talk about anyone, at all. I always look forward to hearing what he has to say about players AFTER the draft. He tends to give away little bits of info. This time, nothing. Absolutely nothing.

[woodbuck27]

Just looked up the LB'er turd TT drafted - CBS had him ranked as the 593rd player, LOL

TT - you go girl!!!

I'm trying to understand this bean supper.

Do you suppose that when TT left the War room last night. He took his board with him and lost it at some disco? I heard that ...TT's a wild man at the clubs.

Maybe he was tossing darts all day at his board and his aim was off?

I mean WTF was that mess? I'm absolutely astounded that he could do so poorly.

The strong TT defenders cannot even excuse that debockle. He needs a rest...seriously he's in trouble.

Clay and Aaron took him down HARD!! I think that has to be a part of this excuse for a draft today.

[woodbuck27]

TT gave us absolutely nothing in that press conference. He didn't talk about anyone, at all. I always look forward to hearing what he has to say about players AFTER the draft. He tends to give away little bits of info. This time, nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Just like his draft today...nothing...absolutely nothing.

Zippo ...sweet fuck all. Even I can't joke about that charade. I'm in shock now that it's over.

[woodbuck27]

What are the odds that Mr. 4.91 forty, is nothing more than training camp fodder, special teams fodder, or practice squad fodder??

We already have 68 guys like Bearington.

Can you redraft a guy after you cut him?? I vote for Caleb Schlauderaff - just cause I like the name.

Heck...just go out and grap the first male on the street you see TT.

If it wan't for all his massaging of the NFL elite ( the 49ers;the Broncos).

The media would cricify him. I'm really incapable of describing just how bad his draft was today. That speaks mountains. I just feel really sad for Ted.

His time has come>>>his time to be gone>>>began today.

Mark those words.

I'll add this and I don't give a shit who doesn't like it.

The entire Packers Scouting Dept. should be FIRED!!!

[wist43]

newhouse shouldn't be a tackle

and no, he never has drafted a center, thats my point. hell, he might not have ever drafted a guard either

he has drafted about 20 so-so LT's and tried to turn them into centers and guards and RT's

I made this point before the draft.

The Packers evaluate all offensive lineman in the same way. They value a certain type of player, and just about every offensive line draft pick is a cookie cutter of their standard. If he's not, he doesn't survive to the 53 man roster.

"Versitile", "mobile", "underpowered", "needs to get stronger", "good in the open field", "has trouble with speed", "has trouble with power"... all we need now is MM's speech about "pad level".

TT's drafts are beginning to take on a comedic quality - next year, we can add at least 7 or 8 of these 10 picks to the scrap heep - and the other 2 or 3 can be added the next year.

Wow

[Bretsky]

David Bass...would be nice


DA RATS have been calling for this guy for a while
Oakland just took him
Let's watch his career and if we were all right we need to collectively scout for TT :))

[red]

boy, today was pretty shitty in my eyes

franklin is the only pick i liked, but after the lacy pick it just made no sense

i don't know what we actually gained today, i'm guessing a lot of them won't even be on the roster and off the team around this time next year

basically it was a bottom of the roster turnover

maybe we gained some more valuable special team aces

[pittstang5]

What a circus! Just got back from spending some time with the family, all hell has broken loose. Two tackles? Let me guess, both guard prospects. Two scrub wrs. Two fn RBs that will do nothing behind this crap line.

No safety, no center, no decent ILB. No A.J. Klein! wtf. I only like the 1st round pick.

[red]

i give our first round a B

second day i give a B- . i like lacy but hate we traded out of the third for jack shit

and i'll give the third day a solid D

[red]

What a circus! Just got back from spending some time with the family, all hell has broken loose. Two tackles? Let me guess, both guard prospects. Two scrub wrs. Two fn RBs that will do nothing behind this crap line.

No safety, no center, no decent ILB. No A.J. Klein! wtf. I only like the 1st round pick.

yes

2 guard prospects, though 2 or 3 people in the world think one of them can be a right tackle. the cb we took some say would be better playing safety, so we might have a saftey, just a project one. 2 wr's who probably won't make the roster and at best will be practice squaders for a couple years

[Bretsky]

Has he ever drafted a Center? I am just telling you where it looks like they will line up at minicamp.

No one though Newhouse would be a tackle either.

I still don't :)

We had a lot...lot of guys I wanted to see in GB fall off the board between the 3rd and when TT ended up picking after trading that pick away

[woodbuck27]

Ted Thompson "Our quarterback is a pretty good player, he doesn't need very much help"

LMAO

Yea! He's Iron Man.

He throws >>> catches his own pass.

[Bretsky]

boy, today was pretty shitty in my eyes

franklin is the only pick i liked, but after the lacy pick it just made no sense

i don't know what we actually gained today, i'm guessing a lot of them won't even be on the roster and off the team around this time next year

basically it was a bottom of the roster turnover

maybe we gained some more valuable special team aces

I am warming to this draft but looking at the round 3 to round 4 trade
There were a LOT......LOT of guys that went off the board who IMO would have offered immediate help...IMO starters
however
be doing that deal we gained depth....but not sure about any immediate help

We got a lot deeper today; we have two RB's better than anybody we had on the roster at the end of last year at the position. I would have been fine with drafting only Franklyn to be honest. He's a really nice player. Getting him makes me feel better about Lacy because if he turns out to be a Sherry at least we have a nice plan in the wings

[Old School]

Thanks guys. Rats is the best Packer Draft Tracker going. There was no shortage of great insight and good links to info. There are sites that charge for a lesser product. You're a great bunch to hang with.

I'm withholding judgment for now. I try to be positive until proven otherwise. It's always exciting to see how it all shakes out.

Wist, come on in off the ledge and have some dinner.

[Bretsky]

What a circus! Just got back from spending some time with the family, all hell has broken loose. Two tackles? Let me guess, both guard prospects. Two scrub wrs. Two fn RBs that will do nothing behind this crap line.

No safety, no center, no decent ILB. No A.J. Klein! wtf. I only like the 1st round pick.


Pitt......value wise.......I love the 1st round pick, Frankly, the 4th round RB from UCLA, the first WR we took, and I kind of like the OLB too.

We took the old TT mentality.......quantity quantity quantity......if you have ten darts cheap darts hopefully you get four bullseyes.....that was the strategy....as opposed to maybe last year....last year....instead of using ten plastic darts.....we traded a few of them away for higher quality darts.....so we only got seven throws with better darts.

The right way ? Who knows..........

[RashanGary]

Goin to my mas to make burgers. . . . Fuck, guys, relax. . . . D Jones and E Lacy are gonna play right away. That tackle, the first one, I really think we have ourselves a player there. He's tough as nails, consistent, strong. . . . . He's a run blocker.

[Brandon494]

Both running backs are going to play right away along with our 1st round DE and we have some guys with nice potential in the lower rounds. BTW haven't we learned how dumb it is to grade a draft right away? No one truly knows how these guys will turn out.

[Bretsky]

Was today verificatoin that our expectatoins for Sherry are next to nothing ?

[Brandon494]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/55883/nfc-north-draft-analysis-5

ESPN has us with the best move out of the division


The Green Bay Packers have gone 43 games without a 100-yard rusher, the longest active streak in the NFL by more than twice. Their running backs have combined for 12 rushing touchdowns over the past three seasons, the fewest in the NFL, and their average of 3.8 yards per rush over that span is tied for last in the league.

[Teamcheez1]

I'm generally happy with our draft.

With several of the posters on this forum, not so much.

[red]

Was today verificatoin that our expectatoins for Sherry are next to nothing ?

no, to me it looks like we have complete faith that sherry will be our starting LT today

because IMO, we didn't draft any LT's

[woodbuck27]

Thanks guys. Rats is the best Packer Draft Tracker going. There was no shortage of great insight and good links to info. There are sites that charge for a lesser product. You're a great bunch to hang with.

I'm withholding judgment for now. I try to be positive until proven otherwise. It's always exciting to see how it all shakes out.

Wist, come on in off the ledge and have some dinner.

That's cool. It was difficult to observe Packer fan.

I mean Mae and I literally had our own 'War room' setup and we've prepared for this draft for weeks.

I've spent 200-300 hours preparing for this draft personally and Mae has worked right along with me. She's a very savvy lady and loves the NFL. She see's things very well too.

I'm hard core. I would never believe that TT could screw that day up as he did.

Looking at the draft, as a whole.

Datone Jones ... too light for a rush DE in a NFL 3-4 'D' or our defensive scheme. look at the size of our DE's. He has to gain muscle but he can't gain speed. TT had a better option on the DL. In defense of this pick.That pick covered our highest priority need based on a roster analysis...arguably that need might have been RB.

OK the 1. priority pick>>> RB or 34DE; 2. SS; 3. 3-4 OLB and LT/OL. If TT went RB then he needed to go to SS ILB as a 5th priority pick. In every case he had to draft for:

value/toughness/athleticism/scheme

Picks at WR,TE,CB had to be strictly luxury picks for depth or absolute BPA.

After waiting too long and after trading down to help the 49ers...TT went to Eddie Lacy. This move looked brilliant as Eddie Lacy might have gone round one. He might have been drafted before Datone Jones except for his re-hab from the leg injury.

So after three rounds we had two picks and ten to come. TT was doing fine.

TT goes OL...OL...RB, 'when he decided to' use his pick. It looked like TT was making an admission, a statement that he was unsatisfied with the landscape on the OL; and that he was serious about a stable of RB's.

I accepterd those picks ... that strategy on that basis. He got arguably the two ... or two out of three best RB's in the draft with his fifth pick. Solid move yet surprizing. He was doubling down at OL and RB. OK These moves all designed to protect his $22 million$ investment in Aaron Rodgers.,

I have to go along with TT's picks on the OL as I looked carefully at both in the 200 hours that I used to build my mock draft. I actually had one of them on my Mock, that shifted like dessert sand.

Then TT's draft in my view went nowhere that made real sense. It became a mess. It lacked quality and neglected need or imagination.

Where was a strong pick at SS or SILB?

What about that 3-4 OLB?

Why pass over a solid BPA at CB or WR?

What about a backup QB?

TT had created eight more picks>>> 10 picks to begin the Sat. April 27, Rd.4 - Rd. 7 portion of the 2013 draft. TT had created some 'real' day three power. I waited and waited waited for TT to get it done. Do something benefitial for the Green Bay Packers.

Over and over >>> not much.

You get the picture as to how I feel; and I've tried my best to back up my position. I've done so as a disappointment like today needs to be explained as real not imaginative.

Today ...TT wasted five/six draft picks as I viewed it.

In consolation, I wish all those picks all the best. It must be amazing to even be considered as a Green Bay Packer.

Sorry... but I'm simply disappointed in TT; worse, his Scouting team. Any six Packerrats that would give it a real effort would do a superior job.

I'll not back down from that position. Today... was one of the worst days in Green Bay Packer draft history and I've experiece many. I've survived some poor ones but how did Ted Thompson manage that shit storm....of a wanna be draft today. I've been on top of this draft for weeks.Sure it's not my job but it has to be the Green Bay Packers Scouts job and they certainly messed up....unless they cannot influence Ted Thompson.

Todat the reputation Ted Thompson Draft Guru...Draft Genious... took a hard hit.

Todat Ted Thompson failed the Green Bay Packers.

PACKERS !

[red]

theres no more excuses for not having a strong running game anymore

we should no longer have to (as PFT likes to put it) pass to set up the pass

if we don't have a solid running game from now on, then that falls squarely on M3's shoulders. like B said, we just drafted our best two running backs we've had in awhile

[red]

There were a LOT......LOT of guys that went off the board who IMO would have offered immediate help...IMO starters



jones and schwenke, both there at our third round pick, jones was there in the 4th.

both were guys that would be an immediate upgrade at center, a position m3 said was an area that "needed to get better"

[Bretsky]

no, to me it looks like we have complete faith that sherry will be our starting LT today

because IMO, we didn't draft any LT's


The first dude is a LT we took and many projected him at LT

[Bretsky]

jones and schwenke, both there at our third round pick, jones was there in the 4th.

both were guys that would be an immediate upgrade at center, a position m3 said was an area that "needed to get better"


If that 2nd pick doesn't play Center I don't get the pick
EDS.....we need better play than he gives
Lang I think could also move to Center

[RashanGary]

Datone Jones is a thug on the field. I really like the Pick
Eddie Lacy was the unanimous top RB in this class according to McGinn's scouts, and a few of them liked him better than both Ingram and Richardson

The first OT we took is my favorite pick. He's a good run blocker and a good pass blocker. He'll be a tackle.

The 2nd OT, I'm not as big of a fan of. He's a project, a future C or Guard. He's an athlete. He's going to take a year or two before we know what we have.

Franklin, I think he's probably a solid player. Nothing special, but a solid player. He could be our 2nd best RB after Lacy, so probably a contributor right away.

I love the Michah Hyde pick. He's a guy I talked about on another board. He was voted by the coaches as the best DB in the big-10. Smart zone player. We need more guys who can play with their eyes to the back-field. Teams still do run the ball in the NFL, and some of them do it well. When we play those teams, we get shredded because we can't play a lick of zone defense. Either we get shredded by the pass against our shit zone corners or we get shredded by the run when half of our defense has their backs to the line.

After that, it's a bunch of projects. The DE/DT is probably the most ready to play, but he doesn't have any special quality that will show up right away. He's going to need to build strength and technique to be a decent player in the league.

[Bretsky]

I didn't know that about Hyde; where did you see that ? I'm not as sold on the LT as you are but hopefully you are right.
I still had some blind faith that Sherry will turn his game up; maybe that is not happening so the coaches knew they needed to address it
Coming out of college he's definitely a better LT prospect than the marshmellow was a couple yrs ago

[wist43]

I am warming to this draft but looking at the round 3 to round 4 trade
There were a LOT......LOT of guys that went off the board who IMO would have offered immediate help...IMO starters
however
be doing that deal we gained depth....but not sure about any immediate help

We got a lot deeper today; we have two RB's better than anybody we had on the roster at the end of last year at the position. I would have been fine with drafting only Franklyn to be honest. He's a really nice player. Getting him makes me feel better about Lacy because if he turns out to be a Sherry at least we have a nice plan in the wings

"We got deeper..."??

"We gained depth..."??

Isn't that what TT's 48 picks between rounds 4-7 the last 8 years was supposed to be about?? Is TT's goal to ensure that the average age of the team is always 25.6 years old??

WTF is he doing??

So what if Johnson replaces Ross... so what if Barrington replaces Zombo!! They're just fringe players, and that's all they'll ever be.

TT had a chance to add some quality football players that could actually contend for starting jobs - this year, and he spit on them to draft a bunch of slugs that no one has ever heard of, and will be forgotten after they're cut during training camp.

cbssportsline had some of these knobs rated as follows:

Nate Palmer - 593rd ranked player
Kevin Dorsey - 416th ranked player
Sam Bearington - 319th ranked player

1. What are the odds they even make the team??
- and if they do make the team, all they'll be doing is moving the previous years slug off the roster.

2. Odds are all of these players would have been available in FA - and if they weren't, so what - TT likely has the number of the 594th ranked player.

Seriously - Ted is doing nothing more than spinning his wheels now. I thought this would happen 8 years - unless of course he adapted as the situation changed, i.e. the team improved.

Ted is just churning the bottom of the roster year after year now - that's all he's accomplishing with the late round spitball picks.

[RashanGary]

Yeah, drafting Rodgers, Collins, Matthews, Raji, Hayward, Jennings, Cobb, Nelson, Bulaga and others had really transformed the bottom of our roster to the point we can't even compete in our own division let alone the post season. Hell, TT will never get us a SB ring.

[RashanGary]

I didn't know that about Hyde; where did you see that ? I'm not as sold on the LT as you are but hopefully you are right.
I still had some blind faith that Sherry will turn his game up; maybe that is not happening so the coaches knew they needed to address it
Coming out of college he's definitely a better LT prospect than the marshmellow was a couple yrs ago


http://www.hawkeyesports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/112612aac.html

Except for the one OG/C project, all of the top players we took were ball players, guys who can play right away. Even the LT. . . . IMO, the things I read about him, he's more ready to play right now than Sherry. He came from good coaching and excels both as a run blocker and pass blocker. Good feet. Tough. Strong. Smart. Hard working. Sound. Consistent.

[wist43]

Thanks guys. Rats is the best Packer Draft Tracker going. There was no shortage of great insight and good links to info. There are sites that charge for a lesser product. You're a great bunch to hang with.

I'm withholding judgment for now. I try to be positive until proven otherwise. It's always exciting to see how it all shakes out.

Wist, come on in off the ledge and have some dinner.

Just had dinner and feel better :)

Nothing can fix this disaster of a draft though... I like some of the guys, but all they accomplish is knocking a guy currently on the roster back into his bartending gig.

All TT accomplished with this draft is bottom of the roster churn, and a few developmental prospects.

This draft, outside of Jones, did nothing to improve the team in either the short, or long term. TT is going to do the same thing next year, and the year after, on and on... and we will perpetually reside at the level of a 2nd tier playoff team - until Rodgers retires or has his head ripped off by an unblocked DE. Without Rodgers, the Packers are a sub .500 team.

In order to take the next step and compete with the big boys - TT needs to hit on a few of these guys, but in 8 years Sitton is the best he's done, and no one else is even close to Sitton.

TT's philosophy is valid, but only to a point. The SB was, in fact, "a fart in the wind", and we really aren't a serious contender.

[red]

Datone Jones is a thug on the field. I really like the Pick
Eddie Lacy was the unanimous top RB in this class according to McGinn's scouts, and a few of them liked him better than both Ingram and Richardson

The first OT we took is my favorite pick. He's a good run blocker and a good pass blocker. He'll be a tackle.

The 2nd OT, I'm not as big of a fan of. He's a project, a future C or Guard. He's an athlete. He's going to take a year or two before we know what we have.

Franklin, I think he's probably a solid player. Nothing special, but a solid player. He could be our 2nd best RB after Lacy, so probably a contributor right away.

I love the Michah Hyde pick. He's a guy I talked about on another board. He was voted by the coaches as the best DB in the big-10. Smart zone player. We need more guys who can play with their eyes to the back-field. Teams still do run the ball in the NFL, and some of them do it well. When we play those teams, we get shredded because we can't play a lick of zone defense. Either we get shredded by the pass against our shit zone corners or we get shredded by the run when half of our defense has their backs to the line.

After that, it's a bunch of projects. The DE/DT is probably the most ready to play, but he doesn't have any special quality that will show up right away. He's going to need to build strength and technique to be a decent player in the league.

so in your opinion JH does hyde stay at corner then?

cause most of what some of us have been hearing is safety

it would be nice if he was another casey heyward

[Old School]

UDFA's coming in
Texas A&M center Pat Lewis
Illinois State
Ben Erickson S 6'1" 194
Matt Brown QB

Mississippi State
DL Gilbert Pena 6'3" 330 lbs

[red]

The first dude is a LT we took and many projected him at LT

i haven't seen those projections

the ones i see call him an interior prospect or maybe a RT

[Bretsky]

Yeah, drafting Rodgers, Collins, Matthews, Raji, Hayward, Jennings, Cobb, Nelson, Bulaga and others had really transformed the bottom of our roster to the point we can't even compete in our own division let alone the post season.

I think part of Wists point is he's very against the constant trade downs and sacrificing of quality for quantity. I don't have time but a roster analyis of GB may be in order.

What sticks out when I read all the players you listed.....what was the lowest round guy up there ? Two ? Sitton and Bishop were the two strong hits we got in four or after.
I think Sitton was round four, right ?

I'm still not sure how much I liked giving up that three but if the OT is as good as you think he is maybe we'll be fine.

[wist43]

Yeah, drafting Rodgers, Collins, Matthews, Raji, Hayward, Jennings, Cobb, Nelson, Bulaga and others had really transformed the bottom of our roster to the point we can't even compete in our own division let alone the post season.

What is the common link for all those guys??

Let's see: 1st round, 2nd round, 1st round, 1st round, 2nd round, 2nd round, 2nd round, 2nd round, 1st round.

Strange, don't see any 5th, 6th, or 7th round picks there.

This year?? We drafted 2 guys in the first 2 rounds - and 38 guys in the last 3. What are the odds any of those 38 slugs is a household name in a few years??

[Bretsky]

UDFA's coming in
Texas A&M center Pat Lewis
Illinois State
Ben Erickson S 6'1" 194
Matt Brown QB

Mississippi State
DL Gilbert Pena 6'3" 330 lbs

Made a separate thread for this as a fyi

[wist43]

I'm still not sure how much I liked giving up that three but if the OT is as good as you think he is maybe we'll be fine.

If the Islamic guy is a player and lands at LT?? Hallelujah - but that is a bittersweet find then, b/c that means that TT's 1st round pick from 2 years (Sherrod) is a bust, and he's either riding PUP, IR, or outright looking for that bartender job.

TT was supposed to have fixed the LT position 2 years ago - but of course missed very badly on Sherrod. Those misses are all the more glaring given TT's 7.08% success rate in rounds 4-7.

[red]

i can also see wists point about just churning over the bottom of the roster

there's a chance one of those guys becomes something, but in all honesty, they're just bottom of the roster fodder until next draft

[Bretsky]

As you recall Bretsky was never a fan of that pick as I was busy pimping somebody else back then....who had one stellar year and one injured year...aka...Brooks Reed

[smuggler]

This year?? We drafted 2 guys in the first 2 rounds - and 38 guys in the last 3. What are the odds any of those 38 slugs is a household name in a few years??

Samuel Wordsworth Shields.

[red]

Samuel Wordsworth Shields.

undrafted free agent

[wist43]

Samuel Wordsworth Shields.

He wasn't even drafted, he was a street FA.

Which only further buttresses my argument that TT should be focusing on quality, not quantity. There are plenty of FA's out there that fill the same bill that 6th and 7th round draft choices do.

It's a beauty contest, and when you get to the bottom of the draft it's what flavor you like as opposed to manuevering around to get a "can't miss guy".

What TT did in the 2013 draft was nothing short of moronic. I really do believe that Schneider, McKenzie, and Dorsey were the voice of reason in his ear, and now that they're gone there's no one there to stop him from doing stupid shit.

[smuggler]

Shields is a scattershot gem. The more looks you get at the pebbles, the higher chance you have to uncover a sapphire.

You're right that this draft isn't energizing, but it's almost a testament to the characteristic of this class itself. I'll give them until training camp before I write everyone off has HORBZ like you, wist. No offense, but you are over-reacting.

And as always, the Bears still suck.

[rbaloha1]

He wasn't even drafted, he was a street FA.

Which only further butresses my argument that TT should be focusing on quality, not quantity. There are plenty of FA's out there that fill the same bill that 6th and 7th round draft choices do.

It's a beauty contest, and when you get to the bottom of the draft it's what flavor you like as opposed to manuevering around to get a "can't miss guy".

What TT did in the 2013 draft was nothing short of moronic. I really do believe that Schneider, McKenzie, and Dorsey were the voice of reason in his ear, and now that they're gone there's no one there to stop him from doing stupid shit.

Lets wait and see. Overall I liked this draft.

6th and 7th round selection which may have been free agents in the past are important since its not worth gambling on bringing them in as free agents.

Other teams are scouting the same potential Sam Shields. The only late one I question is the wr from Maryland.

[RashanGary]

There are a couple common themes of TT's best picks.

1. Yes, they are mostly high round picks.

2. They were known ball players.

Rodgers - A proven college QB. Winner. Questions about his ball carriage, but was a competitor.
Collins - Small school, but he had filthy game.
Jennings - Small school, not as tall as you'd like, didn't run in the 4.3's. But he was a fuckin baller
Sitton - Small school, but they played the same style OL play as we played here. TT talked about him "always blocking his guy." Translation, *baller*
Bulaga - Underwealming athlete, but he came from a school that teaches NLF style OL play and did it well. Baller
Bishop - Bad athlete, but he was a baller in college
Hayward - Underwealming athlete, but he was toted as knowing the game and being a natural football player
Raji - High pick. Beast, baller
Hawk - Drafted way to high, but he's a solid player. He was a baller in college
Cobb - Could do it all. He's as pure of a football player as you'll find
Nelson/Matthews - Both only did it for a year. Unusual for TT's successful picks.

This year, we took football players. Datone Jones is an A+ hand fighter for a college player. Plus he's got physical talent. He's a football player though. He does it with his technique, competitiveness too. Lacy is a legit running back. Some of McGinn's scouts liked him better than both Ingram and Richardson. All of them thought he was the best back in this draft (but has injury concerns.) The OT is toted by coaches and the NFL comittee as a 2nd or 3rd round junior talent coming out. Unfortunately he wasn't as big or athletic as everyone thought when they watched him play. His combine hurt him. But he's a ball player. He blocks his guy (both run and pass.) Franklin is the UCLA all time leading rusher. Does everything well. He's a player. Hyde was the big 10's best DB. He's smart, savvy, natural. He's a football player.

Sherry was a project. Neal and Worthy were projects. Mike Daniels, he was a football player later in the draft. Of course, he played better than the project, Worthy. We didn't take projects this year, and I completely disagree that these guys are bad picks. Outside of the one OG/C project, TT went with what's worked for him and he took guys who play good fucking football. Not shitty athletes, but like Bulaga, Jennings, Bishop, Nelson, and Rodgers he took guys who are competitive, quality, smart, tough footballl players. I get a great feel for the first 5 picks of this draft. Later, it's a bunch of projects, but that's life. He definitely stayed true to football players first and he kept taking good ones all the way through the 5th round with Hyde. Even the DE/DT is a good player. He's just too marginal of an athlete. He's going to need to work at it for a bit I think.

[wist43]

Shields is a scattershot gem. The more looks you get at the pebbles, the higher chance you have to uncover a sapphire.

You're right that this draft isn't energizing, but it's almost a testament to the characteristic of this class itself. I'll give them until training camp before I write everyone off has HORBZ like you, wist. No offense, but you are over-reacting.

And as always, the Bears still suck.

There are players to like in there - but we said that about the guys they are going to replace.

The overriding point has to be - if you've been drafting for depth for years, you've hit on a few earlier picks here and there, you're a playoff team, but you're just below the best teams - you have to upgrade your starting lineup, i.e. you have to fill holes with competent and better starters.

If the 4-7 picks are longshots - which they are - and rounds 1-3 are where the starters are - why in poo-perfect-hell is TT running as fast as he can from from the orchard with good, ripe fruit, for the orchard with dead, rotting fruit that he picks thru hoping to find one he can wash up and say, hey, look what I found??

That is completely illogical - yet that is TT's 2013 draft; and in general his philosophy overall.

TT even said it himself in a presser a few years ago - that you can't just keep doing what he did today - you have to surgically go after the guys you know you can plug into your starting lineup, and churn the bottom of your roster more thru street FA's and minimum wage vets (something that TT rejects out of hand).

What TT did in this draft is indefesible given those facts.

[RashanGary]

Wist,

He also said he thought this draft was deep through the middle rounds, that's why they made so many picks there. Every draft is different. And there was a lot of talk going into this draft about the top being so/so, but it being deep.

[smuggler]

If the 4-7 picks are longshots - which they are - and rounds 1-3 are where the starters are - why in poo-perfect-hell is TT running as fast as he can from from the orchard with good, ripe fruit, for the orchard with dead, rotting fruit that he picks thru hoping to find one he can wash up and say, hey, look what I found??

I think in a normal draft, 1, 2-3, and 4-7 are the three distinct tiers. Thompson's team obviously thought that the tiers were different in this years' draft.

If, for instance, he believed that the tiers were #1overall-#10overall, #11overall-#40overall, #41overall-5th round, and then 6th-7th, his moves on draft day are more understandable.

[wist43]

1-18 Eric Reid FS LSU Grade: B

2-40 Cornellius (Tank) Carradine DE Florida State Grade: A-

2-55 Vance McDonald TE Rice Grade: B

3-88 Corey Lemonier DE Auburn Grade: A

4-128 Quinton Patton WR Louisiana Tech Grade: A

4-131 Marcus Lattimore RB South Carolina Grade: A-

5-157 Quinton Dial DT Alabama Grade: B+

6-180 Nick Moody OLB Florida State Grade: C-

7-237 B.J. Daniels QB South Florida Grade: C-

7-246 Carter Bykowski OT Iowa State Grade: C-

7-252 Marcus Cooper CB Rutgers Grade: B

-------------------------------------------------------------

Now that's a draft.

I can only imagine how much laughter there had to be in their 'war room' everytime they scammed TT - truly a pathetic display by TT this weekend :doh:

[Teamcheez1]

1-18 Eric Reid FS LSU Grade: B

2-40 Cornellius (Tank) Carradine DE Florida State Grade: A-

2-55 Vance McDonald TE Rice Grade: B

3-88 Corey Lemonier DE Auburn Grade: A

4-128 Quinton Patton WR Louisiana Tech Grade: A

4-131 Marcus Lattimore RB South Carolina Grade: A-

5-157 Quinton Dial DT Alabama Grade: B+

6-180 Nick Moody OLB Florida State Grade: C-

7-237 B.J. Daniels QB South Florida Grade: C-

7-246 Carter Bykowski OT Iowa State Grade: C-

7-252 Marcus Cooper CB Rutgers Grade: B

-------------------------------------------------------------

Now that's a draft.

I can only imagine how much laughter there had to be in their 'war room' everytime they scammed TT - truly a pathetic display by TT this weekend :doh:

Can you just go away for awhile? You are hell bent on proving that you are apparently a "GM in waiting" to be hired by an NFL team.

Come back in 2-3 years when we can evaluate all of these players fairly. If a GM can hit on about half of his picks, he is doing an excellent job.

The statistics you use fall into two categories - lies and damn lies.

[sharpe1027]

What is the common link for all those guys??

Let's see: 1st round, 2nd round, 1st round, 1st round, 2nd round, 2nd round, 2nd round, 2nd round, 1st round.

Strange, don't see any 5th, 6th, or 7th round picks there.

This year?? We drafted 2 guys in the first 2 rounds - and 38 guys in the last 3. What are the odds any of those 38 slugs is a household name in a few years??

I am confused. Just how many picks do you expect teams to have in the first two rounds?

If you think there is a huge difference between the bottom of the third and the middle of the fourth, then maybe you have a point. That was what they gave up. l

[wist43]

I think in a normal draft, 1, 2-3, and 4-7 are the three distinct tiers. Thompson's team obviously thought that the tiers were different in this years' draft.

If, for instance, he believed that the tiers were #1overall-#10overall, #11overall-#40overall, #41overall-5th round, and then 6th-7th, his moves on draft day are more understandable.

TT said a few things with this draft

1) he thinks EDS is good enough
2) he thinks Marshall Newhouse is good enough
3) he thinks the problem with the running game is the running backs, and not the OL
4) he thinks Hawk and Bishop are good enough
5) he thinks the Defensive Line is good enough - 1 player added to an underpowered, dysfunctional unit?? (wow)
6) he thinks the team that drafts the most players every year is the winner

To me, this was the most critical draft for the Packers in many years - we are at a crossroads with where we are as a team.

We're so completely draftcentric, that missing on any high pick hurts, but missing on a 1st rounder like Sherrod, then having other high picks severely injured like Neal and Worthy, then drafting duplicate replacement players high in the draft (Lacy for Benson, and Franklin for Harris), and then missing on almost all of your round 4-7 picks year and year...

Add it all up, and we are a deeply flawed, underpowered team that has an all-pro QB slinging the ball and masking the teams shortcomings.

The Packers roster is just a basketcase - what a mess.

[Patler]

theres no more excuses for not having a strong running game anymore

Campen

[rbaloha1]

TT said a few things with this draft

1) he thinks EDS is good enough
2) he thinks Marshall Newhouse is good enough
3) he thinks the problem with the running game is the running backs, and not the OL
4) he thinks Hawk and Bishop are good enough
5) he thinks the Defensive Line is good enough - 1 player added to an underpowered, dysfunctional unit?? (wow)
6) he thinks the team that drafts the most players every year is the winner

To me, this was the most critical draft for the Packers in many years - we are at a crossroads with where we are as a team.

We're so completely draftcentric, that missing on any high pick hurts, but missing on a 1st rounder like Sherrod, then having other high picks severely injured like Neal and Worthy, then drafting duplicate replacement players high in the draft (Lacy for Benson, and Franklin for Harris), and then missing on almost all of your round 4-7 picks year and year...

Add it all up, and we are a deeply flawed, underpowered team that has an all-pro QB slinging the ball and masking the teams shortcomings.

The Packers roster is just a basketcase - what a mess.

Completely disagree with your assessment.

There is competition at all the positions you mentioned.

Lets wait until the season opener which gives us a true barometer if this is a championship team.

[rbaloha1]

Campen

Well we shall find out quickly if Lacy's stats were more due to the bama line.

IMO no and Lacy shall make the packer line appear decent.

[woodbuck27]

1-18 Eric Reid FS LSU Grade: B

2-40 Cornellius (Tank) Carradine DE Florida State Grade: A-

2-55 Vance McDonald TE Rice Grade: B

3-88 Corey Lemonier DE Auburn Grade: A

4-128 Quinton Patton WR Louisiana Tech Grade: A

4-131 Marcus Lattimore RB South Carolina Grade: A-

5-157 Quinton Dial DT Alabama Grade: B+

6-180 Nick Moody OLB Florida State Grade: C-

7-237 B.J. Daniels QB South Florida Grade: C-

7-246 Carter Bykowski OT Iowa State Grade: C-

7-252 Marcus Cooper CB Rutgers Grade: B

-------------------------------------------------------------

Now that's a draft.

I can only imagine how much laughter there had to be in their 'war room' everytime they scammed TT - truly a pathetic display by TT this weekend :doh:

I just did the same thing. The 49ers did very well. That's an 0.850 Avg. A very solid draft for 11 picks.

[HarveyWallbangers]

1) he thinks EDS is good enough
2) he thinks Marshall Newhouse is good enough
3) he thinks the problem with the running game is the running backs, and not the OL
4) he thinks Hawk and Bishop are good enough
5) he thinks the Defensive Line is good enough - 1 player added to an underpowered, dysfunctional unit?? (wow)
6) he thinks the team that drafts the most players every year is the winner

1) Perhaps, but their 4th round pick projects to OC. Only one OC was drafted in the first three rounds. Does that mean only one team thinks it has a need at OC? Probably not, more likely that OCs are undervalued and teams think they can find what they need in the middle rounds.
2) Possibly. Or it could mean Sherrod is further along in his rehab then we think.
3) Likely.
4) Possibly, and they are. They started on a Super Bowl winning team that had a solid defense. I'd say that he thinks Hawk and Bishop on 1st and 2nd down with Jones on 3rd down are good enough. Plus, he may like what he's seen from Manning and Lattimore, and he may be right. Barrington looks like your kind of player. Not real fast, but he plays nasty.
5) The one player was their 1st round pick, so your theory is wrong. He knew he needed to improve the DL... particularly the RDE spot.
6) Non-sense.

[wist43]

I am confused. Just how many picks do you expect teams to have in the first two rounds?

If you think there is a huge difference between the bottom of the third and the middle of the fourth, then maybe you have a point. That was what they gave up. l

In the 2nd they traded back, and the inbetween picks only had one guy I had an eye on - D.J. Swearinger, S; but they passed on good players there in areas of need. They passed on Sio Moore, Brian Winters, Bennie Logan - I would rather have any of those guys over Lacy.

It's not even a knock on Lacy, it only has to do with the fact that the Packers are a passing team, and always will be. When I think of the Lacy pick, I think of Mark Ingram going in the 1st round to the Saints a couple of years ago - I knew it was a wasted pick, b/c they simply don't utilize the position enough; and when they do, it is out of the spread and most of the production goes to Darren Spoles - just as that same production in Green Bay should be going to Dujuan Harris.

Instead, TT wasted 2 picks on the RB position when he had players who were quite similar to the draft picks on the roster already. Benson wasn't bad for what he was running behind, and now Lacy goes from running behind the best OL in college football, and certainly better than the Packers, to having to run behind a terrible run blocking line on a predominant passing team. Lacy will likely post numbers similar to Benson's - assuming MM runs the same bullshit running plays he ran last year.

So TT completely fucked the Lacy and Franklin picks up... even if they're productive, it's production we already had on the team, and didn't need to waste a 2nd and 4th round pick on.

----------------------------------------------

As for the 3rd round, that was a complete debacle.

TT chose to completely ignore the gaping holes he has on his roster while players that could step right in and contribute were there for the taking. Brandon Williams went #94 to Baltimore; SF used the pick they stole from us to pick Corey Lemonier - guy would have looked great in a Packer uniform; he spit on Schwenke - he passed on every C, i.e. EDS is good enough - really??

------------------------------------------------

A lot of good players came off the board while TT bided his time waiting to pick the Islamic kid.

All so TT could have the opportunity to turn some 6th and 7th round spit balls into a bunch of developmental, never gonna-be's who will be off the roster in 6 months - and most of whom would just as likely not been drafted had TT not drafted them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Add it all up, and this draft is nothing more than a big ol' pile of poopy.

[woodbuck27]

thats great that one or two guys say those two can play LT or center. everything i'm reading from everyone else says they are both guards in the NFL. and i don't think either has even player center before

need a center? draft a fucking center. great centers were available in this draft

thats my biggest gripe with TT. he drafts guys that are squares and have been squares their whole careers, and he tries to shove them into the triangle hole

need a triangle, draft a triangle, need a circle, draft a circle. don't draft a 4th tier square and try and make him a circle

Are you a Math teacher....Your an expet in shapes /geometry. The anology is perfect.

I'm thinking from your observation that TT was intimidated by Mathematics as so many are. Could you give TT a Free Clinic?

[HarveyWallbangers]

My thoughts on the late round picks:

Hayward last year and now Hyde this year has us going away from bump and run corners to more zone corners. I've personally always preferred bump and run corners, but with all of these read option QBs I've changed my tune a bit. It puts more of an emphasis on your corners needing to see what's happening at the LOS and having the ability to tackle on the outside.

Barrington is nasty, but he looks slow.

Palmer has the length that Capers likes.

Charles Johnson is the most intriguing prospect to me. The guy was productive (albeit at a lower level), has great measurables, and looks good on film.

Tretter is also intriguing to me. The measurables are there. You'd think he'd have the intelligence also--having gone to an Ivy League school.

Interesting takes here by the Houston Chronicle writer. Makes me feel much better about this draft. Seriously, is this writer Ted Thompson? It's amazing how many sleepers/underrated guys he has that we drafted. Plus, he was high on Jones, Ball, and Franklin.

http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2013/04/top-10-rankings-per-positions-with-overrated-underrated-sleepers/


Defensive End School Round
1. Ezekial Ansah^ BYU 1st
2. Datone Jones^ UCLA 1st
3. Bjoern Werner Florida St. 1st
4. Tank Carradine Florida St. 1st/2nd


Running Back School Round
1. Eddie Lacy Alabama 2nd
2. Montee Ball Wisconsin 2nd
3. Johnathan Franklin UCLA 2nd/3rd


Wide Receiver School Round
Sleeper: Charles Johnson, Grand Valley St.


Tackle School Round
Underrated: David Bakhtiari, Colorado


Guards / Centers School Round
Underrated: J.C. Tretter, Cornell

[RashanGary]

The 49ers started with what? 5 picks in the first 3 rounds? Totallly different ammo.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Some other interesting takes from that guy. This guy is good. Many of the guys he thought were overrated fell in the draft (Moore, Lemonier, Patton). He also liked a couple of guys wist and I liked, so he must know what he's talking about.
:)


Overrated: Damontre Moore, Texas A&M
Overrated: Corey Lemonier, Auburn <-- a guy San Fran took
Underrated: Sio Moore, UConn <-- a guy wist liked
Underrated: Josh Evans, Florida <-- a guy I liked
Overrated: Le’Veon Bell, Michigan State
Overrated: Quinton Patton, La. Tech <-- a guy San Fran took

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'll put it down now for future reference:

Picks that were quite obvious:
1 DE Datone Jones
2 RB Eddie Lacy

Picks that I didn't like:
4 OL David Bakhtiari
5 DT Josh Boyd

Picks that I like:
4 OC J.C. Tretter
7 WR Charles Johnson (highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAnnqcgkCfc)

I kind of like the Franklin pick with the combination of Lacy. I'm indifferent on the rest--although Barrington looks too slow for me. I like his nastiness though.

[Guiness]

I have this feeling that TT is going to pass one the guys I like--even though they'll be available.
:)

OC Barrett Jones
WR Quinton Patton
OC Brian Schwenke
DT Jesse Williams
S Phillip Thomas
QB Tyler Wilson

TT wasn't listening to you today - he certainly did pass over a few of these. Jones in particular was on the board, he was a guy I liked too.

[wist43]

1) Perhaps, but their 4th round pick projects to OC. Only one OC was drafted in the first three rounds. Does that mean only one team thinks it has a need at OC? Probably not, more likely that OCs are undervalued and teams think they can find what they need in the middle rounds.
2) Possibly. Or it could mean Sherrod is further along in his rehab then we think.
3) Likely.
4) Possibly, and they are. They started on a Super Bowl winning team that had a solid defense. I'd say that he thinks Hawk and Bishop on 1st and 2nd down with Jones on 3rd down are good enough. Plus, he may like what he's seen from Manning and Lattimore, and he may be right. Barrington looks like your kind of player. Not real fast, but he plays nasty.
5) The one player was their 1st round pick, so your theory is wrong. He knew he needed to improve the DL... particularly the RDE spot.
6) Non-sense.

I'm glad they took DL in the first round - and I've warmed up to Jones.

About Lacy, I think the Mark Ingram comparison is pretty close, b/c I thought the same thing about Ingram that I think about Lacy. A tough runner going to a predominant passing team. Ingram hasn't done much of anything since he came into the league - but Darren Sproles has certainly helped my fantasy teams.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I know most of you guys are just hopelessly optimistic, and every season everyone starts 0-0... but I clearly remember the last game we played, and how our defense routinely collapses, and how our offense faces 3rd and 1 as a passing down.

I clearly remember being destroyed in a beating that rocked the football world, and catapulted Colin Kapnerfucker into near superstardom.

If you guys aren't looking at the flaws in our team that give rise to those problems - then I don't know what you're looking at.

Our defense suffers massive breakdowns far too often; 3rd and 1 really is a passing down for us - we can't run the ball; our ILBer's are very pedestrian (Hawk wasn't involved in a single turnover play last year), and there's no depth there (at least Zombo and Walden are gone); our LT and C are rated as worst starters at their positions in the league; et al...

We do have problems.

[Bretsky]

I'll put it down now for future reference:

Picks that were quite obvious:
1 DE Datone Jones
2 RB Eddie Lacy

Picks that I didn't like:
4 OL David Bakhtiari
5 DT Josh Boyd

Picks that I like:
4 OC J.C. Tretter
7 WR Charles Johnson (highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAnnqcgkCfc)

I kind of like the Franklin pick with the combination of Lacy. I'm indifferent on the rest--although Barrington looks too slow for me. I like his nastiness though.

ON RECORD

Liked
Datone Jones, Jonathyn Franklyn in round 4, and Charles Johnson

In Between
Eddie Lacy, JC Tretter

Disliked
Bakhtiara (crappy trade down)
Boyd

Indifferent on the rest

[HarveyWallbangers]

I didn't like Mark Ingram, and I think I was on record that I didn't want us drafting him. I liked Richardson. I think Lacy is more comparable to Richardson than Ingram. To me, Ingram was relatively small with pedestrian speed, little shiftiness, total product of the system. Richardson has a bit of the wow factor with more speed and size than Ingram. Lacy has a bit of wow factor in him. Big guys aren't supposed to be that nimble. He has shiftiness, some burst, and that spin move is ridiculous. I doubt I'd take any of the guys in the first round though. Unless an RB has Peterson, Tomlinson, Faulk game-changing skill, I think it's better to spend the pick at another position. I'm okay with Lacy late in the second round.

[RashanGary]

Liked:
Jones
Lacy
Bakhtiara
Franklin
Hyde

Disliked:
None

Projects I have no clue on:
Everyone else

[wist43]

I didn't like Mark Ingram, and I think I was on record that I didn't want us drafting him. I liked Richardson. I see Lacy in the Shaun Alexander mold with some injury concerns--although I'm not that concerned because he played through his injuries.

I didn't like Ingram either, and I do think Lacy is better than Ingram - I only make the comparison b/c both of these were revered runners in college that went to 'chuck til ya puke' passing teams.

I expect Lacy to outpace Benson's numbers, but not by much. He'll also catch a couple of balls/game too.

Benson, Starks, and Green rushed 277 times, for 967 yds - a 3.5 yd/carry avg., and 2 TD's.

Lacy won't get every carry, and Harris or Franklin, or both will get their carries; so let's say Lacy gets 225 carries, and let's increase his yds/carry average from the last years backs from 3.5 to 3.9 yds/carry, and increase his TD's 200% over what the 3 backs combined did - I think that's pretty generous given the shaky the state of the line.

That comes out to 877 yds, on 225 carries, 3.9 yd avg, with 6 TD's.

Sound about right??

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'd be very disappointed if he only averaged 3.9 yards/carry. I think even Benson could have bettered that, if he had stayed healthy. Our OL always starts out slow run blocking for whatever reason and Benson came in late with little time to practice. Harris averaged 4.6 yards/carry late in the year (albeit with a small sample size), Starks averaged 4.3 and Grant averaged 4.2 in 2011, Grant averaged 4.3 in his career. I'm going to say Lacy gets 250 carries and averages 4.4 yards/carry for 1100 yards and 8 TDs.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Kind of funny.

Cordarelle Patterson = 6'2" 216, 4.42 40, 37" vertical; career college receiving stats = 46 catches, 778 yards, 5 TDs in 1 year; cost: 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 7th round picks
Charles Johnson = 6'2" 215, 4.38 40, 39" vertical; career college receiving stats = 128 catches, 2229 yards, 31 TDs in 2 years; cost: 7th round pick

[wist43]

I'd be very disappointed if he only averaged 3.9 yards/carry. I think even Benson could have bettered that, if he had stayed healthy. Our OL always starts out slow run blocking for whatever reason and Benson came in late with little time to practice. Harris averaged 4.6 yards/carry late in the year (albeit with a small sample size), Starks averaged 4.3 and Grant averaged 4.2 in 2011, Grant averaged 4.3 in his career. I'm going to say Lacy gets 250 carries and averages 4.4 yards/carry for 1100 yards and 8 TDs.

WOW

I just don't see that kind of production behind that line. 40% of the line is made of 2 guys who are rated as the worst starters at their positions in the league, we have one of the pass happiest playercallers in the league, and we have just a brutal schedule. If we played the Raiders every week I'd grant you those numbers, but we won our division and play the big boys week after week.

Week 1, SF?? I think the over/under on Lacy's yardage will be about 27 yds - unless he gets some garbage time work, which is quite possible given that it could be a blowout.

[Brandon494]

QB Rodgers
RB Lacy/Franklin
FB Kuhn
WR Nelson, Jones, Cobb, Johnson (Hopefully hes a gem)
TE Finley Ouarless
LT ?
LG Lang
C EDS
RG Sitton
RT Buluga

LDE Raji
DT Pickett
RDE Jones
LOLB Perry
LILB Hawk
RILB Bishop
ROLB Matthews
CB Williams, Sheilds, Hayward, House
FS McMilliam
SS Burnett

Thats a damn fine starting lineup if you ask me

[pbmax]

16th most attempts in the NFL last year with Benson/Green/Starks/Harris starting. I think Lacy might get as many. I am not worried about the rushing attempts. The O line needs to get healthy and it would be great if EDS was either replaced by a 5th round pick or beat him outright. Because production would be light years ahead of last year.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Interesting stat regarding trading down:


The third day of the draft is where you make your team, and here's the evidence: All five clubs that entered Saturday with seven or more choices were playoff teams in 2012. Six of the seven clubs with three or fewer were not.

[LEWCWA]

I really get a kick outta all this. You have to remember that GB overhauled on D last year...like 6 picks in a row on D....You have to assume these players will be better this year....plus he gave them another piece in the first round this year....TT has stocked the D, now the players have to perform....most rookies don't do much, so I have opptimism that the d will improve. Burnett should be better as well. It is the year he should make a big step toward being a probowl type player....

[Brandon494]

I wonder if they will move Buluga to LT and give one of the rookies at shot at RT? Or Lang to RT and one of the rookies to LG?

[green_bowl_packer]

Green Bay Packers UDFA
Lane Taylor, OT, Oklahoma State
Patrick Lewis, C, Texas A&M
Angelo Pease, RB, Kansas State
Matt Brown, QB, Illinois State
Ben Ericksen, S, Illinois State
Gilbert Pena, DT, Mississippi
Jake Stoneburner, TE, Ohio State
Andy Mulumba, DE, Eastern Michigan
Jeremy Vujnovich, OT, Louisiana College

[sharpe1027]

16th most attempts in the NFL last year with Benson/Green/Starks/Harris starting. I think Lacy might get as many. I am not worried about the rushing attempts. The O line needs to get healthy and it would be great if EDS was either replaced by a 5th round pick or beat him outright. Because production would be light years ahead of last year.

I agree that the number is not that important. To me what is important is being able to consistently take four yards when the defense allows it. I thought they were starting to do that before Benson got hurt.

When you have a no name back step in and make your running game look much better late in the year, I have to believe that the problems were not all with the oline. Only time will tell if they can improve further with either of the two rookies, but they have a better chance then when they were only bringing in guys like Saine to compete for roster spots.

[wist43]

16th most attempts in the NFL last year with Benson/Green/Starks/Harris starting. I think Lacy might get as many. I am not worried about the rushing attempts. The O line needs to get healthy and it would be great if EDS was either replaced by a 5th round pick or beat him outright. Because production would be light years ahead of last year.

Rodgers, Harris, Kuhn, and Harrell accounted for 125 carries. Benson/Green/Starks accounted for 277 carries.

I don't include Harris with those guys b/c he was mostly a sub-package guy, and either he or Franklin, or a combination of the 2 will still get those carries.

Harvey and I covered this. He thinks Lacy will end up with 250 carries, 4.4 yd avg, 1100 yds, 8 TD's.

I don't see that at all. Green, or whichever back is still going to get carries. And those other backs combined to average only 3.5 yds/carry. Even granting Lacy some increases in production just b/c he's a better back than all those guys - let's say you give him 225 atts, 4.0 yd avg, 900 yds, 6 TD's.

He's still going to have to run behind one of the worst run blocking offensive lines in the league, and has one of the pass happiest play callers in the league in MM.

That's why I didn't want to invest such a high pick in a RB - he's going to have a lower ceiling than his talent would warrant b/c of the offense he is in.

[Fosco33]

Based on the Packers needs vs. picks, you have to think TT/MM and staff assume the following on current players:

- McMillian/Jennings are starting quality safeties
- EDS is a starting quality center
- Worthy/Perry will perform much better in years 2-4
- Not a lot of confidence in Sherrod coming back and being a contributor

I'm worried about SS and Center.

On Draft picks:
- Lacy, despite injury history, was worth the gamble. I think they hedged the bet with Franklin. It's beyond obvious that the Packers know they need to have more than RB by committee in the next 2-3 years. Teams know Arodg's tendencies and create good game plans. Having to think about all aspects of quality offense will allow us to be less predictable. I.e., being able to get a 1st down on 3rd and 1 without passing it.
- Many here are down on Bakh, I just know that when TT has traded UP for people - that he generally thinks highly of them... worth a shot
- 3 guys from Illinois State (one draft, 2 UDFAs ) - wonder what scout went down there or the back connection. For a small school to have 3 packers (until mid/late Aug) says something...
- Twotone must have impressed them with the read-option creaping back.

[Badgerinmaine]

I didn't know that about Hyde; where did you see that ?
Tatum-Woodson Award winner for best DB in the Big Ten last year: http://blog.packers.com/2013/04/27/packers-add-iowa-cb-micah-hyde-in-fifth-round/ (http://http://blog.packers.com/2013/04/27/packers-add-iowa-cb-micah-hyde-in-fifth-round/)
Good write up on Hyde from an Iowa blog: http://www.blackheartgoldpants.com/2013/4/26/4269086/micah-hyde-nfl-draft-profile-iowa-2013

[Bretsky]

Based on the Packers needs vs. picks, you have to think TT/MM and staff assume the following on current players:

- McMillian/Jennings are starting quality safeties
- EDS is a starting quality center
- Worthy/Perry will perform much better in years 2-4
- Not a lot of confidence in Sherrod coming back and being a contributor

I'm worried about SS and Center.

On Draft picks:
- Lacy, despite injury history, was worth the gamble. I think they hedged the bet with Franklin. It's beyond obvious that the Packers know they need to have more than RB by committee in the next 2-3 years. Teams know Arodg's tendencies and create good game plans. Having to think about all aspects of quality offense will allow us to be less predictable. I.e., being able to get a 1st down on 3rd and 1 without passing it.
- Many here are down on Bakh, I just know that when TT has traded UP for people - that he generally thinks highly of them... worth a shot
- 3 guys from Illinois State (one draft, 2 UDFAs ) - wonder what scout went down there or the back connection. For a small school to have 3 packers (until mid/late Aug) says something...
- Twotone must have impressed them with the read-option creaping back.

TT did not trade up to get Bakh.....he was the pick TT was left with when TT traded out of round three and about eighteen picks back. The quality of need picks IMO...that came off the board in between those two picks were up there. TT traded up to get the second RB in Franklyn, the RB from UCLA. That was a great value pick. Whether the need was there to get another RB and neglect other spots seems to be what some are debating on.

[3irty1]

I think Green and Starks are probably as good as cut. Harris and the new guys will handle the load. if any of them are decent there should be a back that pretty effortlessly gets enough attempts for 1k in yards. MM's playcalling is usually a reflaction of what the defense is giving him. We'll be running the ball when the front is favorable and it appears to be McCarthy's favored answer to facing 2-deep coverage. Historically we've run the ball a lot against the Bears and now every team is approaching us with a smothering coverage like that.

I have a feeling JC Tretter is a future center and have a feeling that Sam Barrington might even be a fullback. Clearly they want to be effective when they run the ball this year.

[pbmax]

Rodgers, Harris, Kuhn, and Harrell accounted for 125 carries. Benson/Green/Starks accounted for 277 carries.

I don't include Harris with those guys b/c he was mostly a sub-package guy, and either he or Franklin, or a combination of the 2 will still get those carries.

Harvey and I covered this. He thinks Lacy will end up with 250 carries, 4.4 yd avg, 1100 yds, 8 TD's.

I don't see that at all. Green, or whichever back is still going to get carries. And those other backs combined to average only 3.5 yds/carry. Even granting Lacy some increases in production just b/c he's a better back than all those guys - let's say you give him 225 atts, 4.0 yd avg, 900 yds, 6 TD's.

Subtract Rodgers and Harrell rushes (58) from the team total give you 375 running back carries. Subtract Cobb in backfield (which probably doesn't go away immediately) gives you 365 to pass around.

Benson will not be back and Starks isn't probably long for the team either. Harris looks to make it on production and Green might get a shot on the hope he is healthy.

Kuhn will be the fullback and might handle third down passing sets if Franklin doesn't pick it up.

If we assume Lacy wins the competition, he picks up the carries of Benson, Starks, Green (who was starting) and Grant. Call 35 Green carries some kind of 3rd down run that will go to Kuhn/Cobb/Franklin/Harris. Let Harris and Kuhn keep their 2012 carries in specialist roles.

That leaves a legitimate 100 (Green)+71 (Benson)+ 71 (Starks)+ 23 (Grant) carries for a 2 down RB = 273.

If DuJuan Harris can get 4.6 yards per carry, Lacy can do 4.0. Bulaga will be healthy as will Lang. EDS is a run blocking upgrade to Saturday. Left Tackle is a mystery.

273 X 4 = 1092

Packers scored 9 rush TDs 2 of which are Rodgers and let's call both of those designed QB rollouts. Lacy will be the short yardage guy so this number won't go down. Say its a wash Lacy short TDs versus Rodgers now functional play action.

7 TDs. Well worth a late second round pick.

So his line will read 270 carries, 4.0 ypc for 1080 yards and 7 TDs

But all of this is meaningless if someone, anyone, stays healthy, starts and develops some timing and chemistry with the line and M3. Because that will solve a large part of the problem by itself. Personally, I think M3 has been dissembling for some time about 2 RBs and going with the hot hand. He has previously shown the willingness to stick with one guy and ride him while its working. Lacy can easily be that guy.

He doesn't need to be Peterson in this offense, or Eddie George. He just needs to be Corey Dillon in NE.

[Guiness]

Lacy won't get every carry, and Harris or Franklin, or both will get their carries; so let's say Lacy gets 225 carries, and let's increase his yds/carry average from the last years backs from 3.5 to 3.9 yds/carry, and increase his TD's 200% over what the 3 backs combined did - I think that's pretty generous given the shaky the state of the line.

That comes out to 877 yds, on 225 carries, 3.9 yd avg, with 6 TD's.

Sound about right??

I think this could be about right (even if I agree with about nothing else you've posted in this thread!) and I'd be pretty happy with that. I think having a back with even mediocre production is enough to keep opposing defenses a bit more honest.

If we get this sort of production out of a late second round pick, that's not a bad return.

[Guiness]

I just did the same thing. The 49ers did very well. That's an 0.850 Avg. A very solid draft for 11 picks.

Pie in the sky numbers if ever I saw them Woody! Talk to me in 3 years and - and if those draft evaluations hold true, we'll be talking about the incredible 3-peat by SF, which I doubt 8-)

[wist43]

Subtract Rodgers and Harrell rushes (58) from the team total give you 375 running back carries. Subtract Cobb in backfield (which probably doesn't go away immediately) gives you 365 to pass around.

Benson will not be back and Starks isn't probably long for the team either. Harris looks to make it on production and Green might get a shot on the hope he is healthy.

Kuhn will be the fullback and might handle third down passing sets if Franklin doesn't pick it up.

If we assume Lacy wins the competition, he picks up the carries of Benson, Starks, Green (who was starting) and Grant. Call 35 Green carries some kind of 3rd down run that will go to Kuhn/Cobb/Franklin/Harris. Let Harris and Kuhn keep their 2012 carries in specialist roles.

That leaves a legitimate 100 (Green)+71 (Benson)+ 71 (Starks)+ 23 (Grant) carries for a 2 down RB = 273.

If DuJuan Harris can get 4.6 yards per carry, Lacy can do 4.0. Bulaga will be healthy as will Lang. EDS is a run blocking upgrade to Saturday. Left Tackle is a mystery.

273 X 4 = 1092

Packers scored 9 rush TDs 2 of which are Rodgers and let's call both of those designed QB rollouts. Lacy will be the short yardage guy so this number won't go down. Say its a wash Lacy short TDs versus Rodgers now functional play action.

7 TDs. Well worth a late second round pick.

So his line will read 270 carries, 4.0 ypc for 1080 yards and 7 TDs

But all of this is meaningless if someone, anyone, stays healthy, starts and develops some timing and chemistry with the line and M3. Because that will solve a large part of the problem by itself. Personally, I think M3 has been dissembling for some time about 2 RBs and going with the hot hand. He has previously shown the willingness to stick with one guy and ride him while its working. Lacy can easily be that guy.

He doesn't need to be Peterson in this offense, or Eddie George. He just needs to be Corey Dillon in NE.

You're into "WOW" territory with Harvey if you think Lacy will get the rock 273 times.

You're assuming all the carries go to Lacy; that he won't miss any games; that he won't hit the proverbial wall; that our pathetic OL can open holes going up against some pretty damn good defenses; and that McCarthy won't lose his cheat sheet with the running plays on it.

That's a lot of things falling perfectly for your boy to get those numbers.

[rbaloha1]

A big part of packer success shall be lacy averaging 20+ carries per game.

[KYPack]

A big part of packer success shall be lacy averaging 20+ carries per game.

There's another plus that Lacy can bring. The defenses we face will have to account for him. Last season when Benson went down, Indy made a great adjustment in mid-game. They went to a light box with Green in there. With only 6 defenders in the box, Rodgers wasn't as successful throwing vs the Colts from that point on.

If Lacy can keep 7 defenders in the box and keep those LB's honest, his biggest contributions may be reflected in keeping the passing game souped up.

[rbaloha1]

There's another plus that Lacy can bring. The defenses we face will have to account for him. Last season when Benson went down, Indy made a great adjustment in mid-game. They went to a light box with Green in there. With only 6 defenders in the box, Rodgers wasn't as successful throwing vs the Colts from that point on.

If Lacy can keep 7 defenders in the box and keep those LB's honest, his biggest contributions may be reflected in keeping the passing game souped up.

Yes sir -- teams take the running game more seriously plus MM has the confidence to call more running plays.

[King Friday]

He's still going to have to run behind one of the worst run blocking offensive lines in the league, and has one of the pass happiest play callers in the league in MM.

Wist, I continue to wonder why you think McCarthy is pass-happy. In recent years, he hasn't had a capable RB and has had troubles with the OL...of course he's going to lean on the passing game. However, when McCarthy has been in control of an offense that possessed a capable RB, he has never been pass reliant. In reality, his offenses have been immensely balanced in those instances where he had a capable RB at his disposal.

Deuce McAllister ran the ball a lot in New Orleans when McCarthy was there (2000-2004), averaging 21 carries a game from 2002-2004.
In 2005 in SF, Barlow and Gore combined for 300 carries.
Then, as a head coach in GB, we've seen the following:
2006: 350+ carries between Green/Morency [capable starter]
2007: 300 carries between Grant/Morency/Wynn [mediocre backs...Grant was good, but he obviously came to the roster late in camp and took awhile to settle in]
2008: 350+ carries between Grant/Jackson [capable starter]
2009: 350 carries between Grant/Jackson/Green [capable starter, awful backups]
2010: 270 carries between Jackson/Kuhn [I'm amazed we even bothered to hand it off at all that year]
2011/2012: 270 carries between the top 2-3 backs, who were all mediocre at best

The issue isn't McCarthy IMO. The issue is that Thompson has put NO VALUE on a back since he's been here. He can't identify capable backs in the draft and has yet to draft even ONE back who becomes worth a damn to the team. Thompson is the one who has put our running game into the category of endangered species. It is clear from his history in charge of various offenses that McCarthy is more than willing to run a guy 300 times a year if he is capable. He just has never had that type of guy here outside of Ahman during McCarthy's first year here, who did get 266 carries in 14 games played. Even Ryan Grant was not a 300 carry a year type guy...he was a capable starter, but not a workhorse.

[King Friday]

As far as Lacy...

I think McCarthy is going to emphasize his abilities foremost in short yardage/goal line situations this year. I can't see him giving Lacy the rock more than 250 times in his rookie year...unless the kid comes out and just blows the doors off from day one. I expect about 200 carries for Lacy...and the ability to pick up 3rd-and-1 on a consistent basis. The backs will still be by committee, although I do believe we'll see the backs get back up over 300 combined carries. That hasn't happened in the last 3 years. Without Jennings and with the potential for the loss of Finley at year end, McCarthy HAS to find a way to get the running game back up to snuff. Lacy will be the key cog in making that happen.

[woodbuck27]

Rodgers, Harris, Kuhn, and Harrell accounted for 125 carries. Benson/Green/Starks accounted for 277 carries.

I don't include Harris with those guys b/c he was mostly a sub-package guy, and either he or Franklin, or a combination of the 2 will still get those carries.

Harvey and I covered this. He thinks Lacy will end up with 250 carries, 4.4 yd avg, 1100 yds, 8 TD's.

I don't see that at all. Green, or whichever back is still going to get carries. And those other backs combined to average only 3.5 yds/carry. Even granting Lacy some increases in production just b/c he's a better back than all those guys - let's say you give him 225 atts, 4.0 yd avg, 900 yds, 6 TD's.

He's still going to have to run behind one of the worst run blocking offensive lines in the league, and has one of the pass happiest play callers in the league in MM.

That's why I didn't want to invest such a high pick in a RB - he's going to have a lower ceiling than his talent would warrant b/c of the offense he is in.

That's why I didn't want to invest such a high pick in a RB - he's going to have a lower ceiling than his talent would warrant b/c of the offense he is in. Wist43

Why help out a team 'the 49ers' by allowing them to trade up 2X; for a watered down pick?

With the Rd. 2 Pick #55 ...Pick a need BPA at SS or 34 OLB. Hold the pick @ RB to Rd. 4 or later.

Use the top three rounds to nail down quality talent to cover need priority.

a) ie 34 Rush DE (got him..Datone Jones in Rd. 1 pick #28).

b) Rd. 2 Pick #55 ... BPA Priority Need a) SS b) 34 OLB c) OL and d) SILB.

Options:

SILB Arthus Brown 6'0" 241; Kansas St.... Grade 90.3

SS DJ Swearinger 5'10" 208; South Carolina... Grade 81.4

OT's Terron Armstead 6'5" 306; Arkansas-Pine Bluff...Grade 84.0 or Dallas Thomas 6'5" 300; Tennessee Grade 82.7

OG's Larry Warford, 6'3" 332; Kentucky ... Grade 88.3; Brian Winters 6'4" 320; Kent St.....Grade 71.1

an **Option for depth on the DL or target DT Brandon Williams in Rd. 3 Pick #88.:

** DT's Bennie Logan 6'2" 309; LSU ... Grade 78.7 or John Jenkins 6'4" 346 Georgia ... Grade 81.3

Big/talented/athletic/hard hitting FS >>>SS TJ McDonald 6'2" 219; USC ... Grade 66.5

SS Shawn Williams 6'0" 213, Georgia ... Grade 74.8.

Well I won't go on. You get the idea.

Frankly I agree so much with Wist43 as he makes entirely good sense. His forecast is ominous.It's difficult for many to imagine it's headed... where... it... is... headed.

I look at it all now and cringe.

Today two players eat up 28.5 % of the packers Salary CAP. Yup less than 4% of the roster enjoys 28.5% of the CAP. Is TT seriously considering adding the third side of 'the Big Triangle'...BJ Raji at 'a conservative' cost of $8 Million$? If so 'that Big triangle' or 5.67% of the Packer Roster will eat up 35% of our CAP.

Let's not forget CB Tramone Williams and TE Jermichael Finley ... wringing 'the Salary Cap Neck' for another 13.62%.

48.6 % of the Packer Salary CAP would belong to 9.43% of the Roster.

If your a young and talented prospect.Would you be over joyed to become a Green Bay Packer? Wouldn't you have concerns?

If your currently on the roster and not one of these 'Big Five'. Would you be perfectly content? Would you be anticipating a long term future as a Green Bay Packer?

The prognosis is that Ted Thompson has to solve this issue. He has to ensure that doing so has this focus focus. A harmonious Green Bay Packer 'Locker Room'. Some sembalance of team morale...team Spirit.

Good Luck Ted Thompson.

Protect the Green Bay Packers Ted.

[denverYooper]

I wonder if they will move Buluga to LT and give one of the rookies at shot at RT? Or Lang to RT and one of the rookies to LG?

I've heard a lot of speculation about Bulaga to LT lately.

[rbaloha1]

I've heard a lot of speculation about Bulaga to LT lately.

That talk exists.

Let the rook win the job if it fails -- move BB.

[smuggler]

Still enjoying wist in meltdown mode. Really hoping you eat crow ASAP dude. (You should hope this, too.)

[Carolina_Packer]

There's another plus that Lacy can bring. The defenses we face will have to account for him. Last season when Benson went down, Indy made a great adjustment in mid-game. They went to a light box with Green in there. With only 6 defenders in the box, Rodgers wasn't as successful throwing vs the Colts from that point on.

If Lacy can keep 7 defenders in the box and keep those LB's honest, his biggest contributions may be reflected in keeping the passing game souped up.

Totally agree. If anyone is on this board complaining that these RB's are not our identity as a team, are missing the point. The team is obviously addressing what they perceive to be a need, and trying to change the balance of the offense. If Lacy and Franklin can make the offense less predictable, create match-up issues, and keep the defense guessing more, isn't that the point?

I think you saw glimpses of what a talented back can do to help the offense with DuJuan Harris's late season/playoff contributions to the run/play action game. I'm not sure how anyone can sit there and argue against the running back picks if it diversifies the Green Bay offense, and possibly makes them that much harder to defend. I don't think anyone thinks we are going to become a run first team, but if you make the other team respect what you can do with the run, then it keeps them off balance, where the offense wants them to be, and that can make Rodgers even scarier to deal with.

The WR Johnson out of Grand Valley State...I think he has a chance to distinguish himself. Watch his pro day and game highlights on YouTube. He's put together. Here's to good health to all the picks and to the returning players.

[MJZiggy]

Some of you ladies need to take your tampons out for a while. Your vaginas need some air. Yeesh. Wist, has it ever occurred to you that TT drafted TWO running backs and a bunch of offensive linemen because he wants to make the running game more prominent? That makes anything that the running game was or was not expected to do BEFORE kinda irrelevant, don't you think? See, when you change the type of personnel you have, you can change what you focus on as a team...

[pbmax]

You're into "WOW" territory with Harvey if you think Lacy will get the rock 273 times.

You're assuming all the carries go to Lacy; that he won't miss any games; that he won't hit the proverbial wall; that our pathetic OL can open holes going up against some pretty damn good defenses; and that McCarthy won't lose his cheat sheet with the running plays on it.

That's a lot of things falling perfectly for your boy to get those numbers.

But that is true of any season and any running back. To get that number of carries, you need to be healthy, have a functional passing game and be competitive in games. If the offense was the Vikings or some other terribly inept passing outfit, Lacy or someone would get 350 carries.

But we have lost the forest for the trees. Absent offensive collapse, Lacy makes the running game better. Platoon or no. Either he gets the carries or someone playing as well or better gets the carries. Its not going to be worse unless other parts fail on the offense. So a second round pick that makes the offense better is well worth the price paid.

[pbmax]

I am going to be curious to see the WR from Maryland. Danny O'Brien left that offense when they switched coaches and went some kind of option deal. The forward passing game took a backseat and then disappeared when injuries hit the QB position.

He might simply have been lost in the shuffle.

[woodbuck27]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--2013-nfl-draft-winners-losers--sam-bradford-fully-equipped--bill-belichick-thinking-too-hard-233525109.html

Jason Cole... Yahoo!

2013 NFL draft winners/losers: Sam Bradford fully equipped; Bill Belichick thinking too hard

"Before anybody cries foul about how the Minnesota Vikings, Miami Dolphins and the New York Jets were left out of the winners section of this story, read my column from Thursday night. All of those teams had great opening nights of the draft and deserve plenty of praise."

WINNERS !

The St. Louis RAMS: (Read)

The San Francisco 49ers:

The 49ers were particularly impressive this weekend as ** they filled in every major need they had with a safety (Eric Reid) to takeover for departed Dashon Goldson, a defensive lineman (Tank Carradine) to eventually replace Justin Smith, a tight end (Vance McDonald) to replace Delanie Walker and ** a potential star at running back (Marcus Lattimore) to eventually replace Frank Gore, assuming Lattimore returns to health.

The Baltimore Ravens: (Read)

Chicago Bears:

"General manager Phil Emery continued his pragmatic approach to getting the Bears back to contention by getting a couple of really nice prospects to fill vital spots. Offensive lineman Kyle Long helps a unit that has to be on its game to protect deliberate, must-see-it-first quarterback Jay Cutler.

On defense, the Bears picked up linebacker Jon Bostic from Florida to replace Brian Urlacher. Mark this down: In five years, people will be talking about how much better Bostic is than Manti Te'o."

LOSERS:

The Dallas Cowboys: (Read)

New England Patriots: (Read)

Eddie Lacy and all running backs

" For the first time since 1963 (when the NFL had only 14 teams), a running back didn't go in the first round of the draft. Lacy was expected by many to go in the first round and be the first one taken. He ended up going No. 61 overall and was the fourth back to go despite having a stellar career at Alabama.

There are two reasons for that.

The first is specific to Lacy; he is beaten up.

This is a kid who runs hard and runs with power, but has taken more than his share of hits along the way. He's currently nursing a turf toe injury, but he has had other problems since high school.

The second issue is the devaluing of the position.

This is a full-on passing league that features so many wide-open sets with three, four and even five receivers that a running back isn't much more than window dressing. The most telling proof of that is Giovani Bernard, who at 5-foot-10 and all of 205 pounds, was the first back off the board."


Comment woodbuck27:

Ted Thompson invested not just one mid round Pick on RB; but two pics at RB. Including a 2nd Rd. Pick on RB Eddie Lacy!? When Ted Thompson double downed with his 5th Pick on a RB he devalued Eddie Lacy. Again like his general draft philosophy he watered down the overall value of his draft class. He did the same on the OL with his 3rd and 4th picks.

Again none of those picks 2-5 addressed the second and third priority needs on our team...SS and 23 OLB.It gets worse. When TT decided to use a pick he ignore superior talent. Again and worse talent for real need in legitimate BPA prospects on the board.

i.e. What did Ted Thompson and his Scouting Dept. have against *** this prospect among many? While drafting (prospects!?) that wern't on the map of the most highly developed and deserving or close to NFL ready 'REAL' prospects? Sure it's all a crap shoot but come on Packer fans. Can't we avoid that as a lame excuse for an inattention to certain detail? Let's get real in terms of the quality that Ted Thompson neglected in this draft.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/chase-thomas?id=2539314

*** OLB Chase Thomas 6' - 3" 244 lbs; Stanford

He earned honorable mention All-Pac 12 accolades as a linebacker in Fangio's 3-4 scheme by leading Stanford in tackles for loss (11.5) and tying for the lead in sacks (7.5).

His playmaking skills flourished as a junior, garnering All-American and first-team All-Pac 12 honors by increasing his production (17.5 tackles for loss, 8.5 sacks) for the second straight season.

The Stanford program didn't miss a beat after losing Luck to the NFL. Riding the strength of their running game and defense, they lost just one game (in overtime to Notre Dame) and largely shut down many high powered offenses.

Thomas had another year of gaudy production (71 tackles, 14.5 tackles for loss, 7.5 sacks) on his way to earning first-team All-Pac 12 honors once again.

How many that were here on this thread yesterday were pulling for this pick?

ILB Kevin Reddick 6'1" 243; North Carolina with a very solid Grade.

Not decent enough for Ted Thompson? Not decent enough when he was a better fit than some others that TT selected? Why Ted?

Not a decent fit for Ted Thompson? He wanted a fella with what? 7 TD pass receptions in 2 seasons Fr. some obscure small College!? Hey any young man must be delighted to get the nod fr. Ted. I'm going to pull for all of them and maybe adopt a favourite for awhile before he gets cut. Is that it.T selects lesser talent that's simply easier to cut as that pick doesn't have 'a snowball in July's' chance of surviving?

No the above two 'real prospects' and candidates to maybe? cover real needs and really possibly? ...ensure an upgrade. Are again in this draft neglected....for TC fodder. Big hopes without any real chance.

That IMO SUCKS! That IMO offers little in terms of integrity and common sense in terms of attaining a very solid draft class.

That refelects rather poorly on Ted Thompson.

What really sucks is that for the likes of Wist43 and I to be correct TT has to be wrong and the Green Bay Packers have to not really get there.

That SUCKS !



PACKERS!

[wist43]

Still enjoying wist in meltdown mode. Really hoping you eat crow ASAP dude. (You should hope this, too.)

Just reading the writing on the wall.

We have a lot of holes, and where we don't have holes, we have average starters. Without Rodgers, we're a sub .500 team; with Rodgers, we're a low level playoff team, but not a real contender.

With respect to the starting lineup, we upgrade 1 position, DE; and slightly improved another, RB. Were we those small upgrades away from overcoming the Niners??

TT ignored holes, and did what TT usually does - throw a million darts at the wall and hope 1 of the bartenders that falls out of the net can play. While he's doing that, the holes on the roster go unfilled.

We're not a 5-11 team, bereft of talent - we have enough talent to compete at the bottom level of the playoffs - how do you take the next step from here?? TT says you draft a bunch of chaff, hope the stars align, and "grow from within". What?? do the Packers meditate everyday, and sing kumbaya?? I say he should move around in the draft to get the approriate value for the pick, and fix the teams obvious defects.

The truth is, TT and MM don't think they're defense is 579 yds and 45 pts worth of bad - they obviously didn't watch the train wreck - and neither did most of you guys apparently.

[woodbuck27]

Some of you ladies need to take your tampons out for a while. Your vaginas need some air. Yeesh. Wist, has it ever occurred to you that TT drafted TWO running backs and a bunch of offensive linemen because he wants to make the running game more prominent? That makes anything that the running game was or was not expected to do BEFORE kinda irrelevant, don't you think? See, when you change the type of personnel you have, you can change what you focus on as a team...

Of course. Don't look at common sense and reason.

Don't sit back and think about the points that Wist43 and I are trying so hard for you and others here to see clearly.

Just insult us MJ. That's all you have. Low life trash posting?

Get real... have some decency and respect. Act like you have half a brain.

Maybe even learn something about football in terms of adding talent to our team. Upgrading our team, so it can better compete with the real players for the Super Bowl.

Arn't we all pulling for the same team here at Packerrats MJ Ziggy? I thought we were!?? I thought we are all basically Packer fans. Are you more qualified than Wist43 or I to see what's happening clearly?

I'll answer that question MJ:

NO!

"Some of you ladies need to take your tampons out for a while. Your vaginas need some air." MJ Ziggy

That's a shitdirt 'insulting to yourself' post ...MJ Ziggy You 'only' reveal yourself in that style of post. Try not to act so pathetic. I feel badly for you.

I might ask you...what do you know about being a Lady? I wouldn't... as I'm sure, there are times when you try really hard to be one.

Lady / man!?

It doesn't matter as a poster here we're on equal ground. So toss down 'shit' and be prepared to back yourself up. Why? Because you open yourself up to just that. An intelligent defense of a decent position.

Can't you post a rebuttal without the indignation, the insult? I'm sure it's somewhere in you.

GO PACK GO!

[KYPack]

Shitdirt?

C'mon moose.

Don't limit the girls to dick jokes.

It's a free country, they can talk about pussy when they see one.

[mission]

I am going to be curious to see the WR from Maryland. Danny O'Brien left that offense when they switched coaches and went some kind of option deal. The forward passing game took a backseat and then disappeared when injuries hit the QB position.

He might simply have been lost in the shuffle.

It got so bad in Maryland that they actually started one of their LBs at QB who played a little QB in high school. It was a catastrophe.

[woodbuck27]

Shitdirt?

C'mon moose.

Don't limit the girls to dick jokes.

It's a free country, they can talk about pussy when they see one.

What does 'pussy' have to do with drafting and Ted Thompson....ahhhhh...now I get it ... Ok.

To be direct:

Did you see 'that poster' on the draft thread when it was all going down yesterday KY?

The poster can't 'with any credibility', spill milk on anyone ...when the poster didn't come for a serving of milk. :-)

I thought we're commenting on the results of TT's draft. Isn't it OK to critique it negatively here without reference to any form of gender bias or anatomical sexual part (s)? Hahahahahahaha.

Hey ...again... the poster I'm referring to here is free to make a fool of herself.

We all do at times.

GO PACKERS !

[3irty1]

Just reading the writing on the wall.

We have a lot of holes, and where we don't have holes, we have average starters. Without Rodgers, we're a sub .500 team; with Rodgers, we're a low level playoff team, but not a real contender.

With respect to the starting lineup, we upgrade 1 position, DE; and slightly improved another, RB. Were we those small upgrades away from overcoming the Niners??

TT ignored holes, and did what TT usually does - throw a million darts at the wall and hope 1 of the bartenders that falls out of the net can play. While he's doing that, the holes on the roster go unfilled.

We're not a 5-11 team, bereft of talent - we have enough talent to compete at the bottom level of the playoffs - how do you take the next step from here?? TT says you draft a bunch of chaff, hope the stars align, and "grow from within". What?? do the Packers meditate everyday, and sing kumbaya?? I say he should move around in the draft to get the approriate value for the pick, and fix the teams obvious defects.

The truth is, TT and MM don't think they're defense is 579 yds and 45 pts worth of bad - they obviously didn't watch the train wreck - and neither did most of you guys apparently.

What holes are left after the draft? I would have thought you'd love this draft. 4 players in the front 7. Huge investments in all aspects of running the ball. Don't pretend that you disagree with the concept of "growing from within." 2nd and 3rd year players account for a lot.

[wist43]

Some of you ladies need to take your tampons out for a while. Your vaginas need some air. Yeesh. Wist, has it ever occurred to you that TT drafted TWO running backs and a bunch of offensive linemen because he wants to make the running game more prominent? That makes anything that the running game was or was not expected to do BEFORE kinda irrelevant, don't you think? See, when you change the type of personnel you have, you can change what you focus on as a team...

Talk of tampons just throws me off a bit... a most confusing shopping task I will say.

As for the mess that TT drafted - it's deja vu all over again.

TT's drafts are nothing short of bizaare - and I think that's why he drives some of us nuts. Last year he takes dead aim at the mess he created in the front seven - but then didn't actually fix it. He drafted a bushel of good players - most of whom belong playing in another scheme - WTF??

Now our front seven is still a mess, but with different problems. So we take it on the chin for 579 yds, 323 yds rushing, and 45 pts - seemed pretty obvious to me that the whole thing was dysfunctional and that reconoiter was in order. TT responded by drafting Jones - okay fine - but then goes on a dart throwing rampage.

In other words - he moved down in the draft and passed on competent players at positions of great need for the opportunity to draft a bunch of developmental projects, most of whom will be cut in 6 months.

The other idiotic thing he did was drafting 2 RB's that are almost clones of 2 players he already has on the roster (Benson and Harris). While they may be slight improvements over the previous guys, the picks are essentially lateral moves. We did not appreciably improve by drafting Lacy and Franklin - we already had most of that production on the roster.

We're not going to overcome the embarrassing beat down the Niners laid on us by drafting laterally and mining for bums.

[mission]

The other idiotic thing he did was drafting 2 RB's that are almost clones of 2 players he already has on the roster (Benson and Harris). While they may be slight improvements over the previous guys, the picks are essentially lateral moves. We did not appreciably improve by drafting Lacy and Franklin - we already had most of that production on the roster.

Couldn't be more wrong, strongly underestimating Lacy. Benson has no big play ability and isn't even on the Packers (small detail there). The 230 pounds thing is deceptive as I've never seen someone catch him from behind not to mention maybe already having the best spin move in the NFL without even playing a down. These picks allow a backfield of Lacy, Franklin and Harris. Gotta factor Franklin was a hedge pick to not have all our eggs in one basket. Lacy only started for a year in Bama and ran over the highest ranked defense in the country not to mention breaking 1st and 2nd round pick tackles all season. Big holes, sure, but watch some of his "tape" and you'll see he made the most out of everything.

Turn a couple 3rd and short into conversions and our defense gets to stay off the field. 49ers game was more a result of piss-poor game planning than anything else.

[wist43]

What holes are left after the draft? I would have thought you'd love this draft. 4 players in the front 7. Huge investments in all aspects of running the ball. Don't pretend that you disagree with the concept of "growing from within." 2nd and 3rd year players account for a lot.

We got 1 front seven player - Jones. The other guys are either camp fodder, special teams guys, or lateral replacements, in othe words, no improvement.

Is the muslim guy gonna supplant Newhouse?? Is EDS still our starting C?? Is MM going to stick with only those 3 running plays??

Lacy and Franklin might be improvements on Benson and Harris, but with all those other problems, how much did we really improve?? The RB's weren't entirely lateral moves, but the benefit to the team is marginal.

Now if the muslim guy is a player, then we're making some progress - but - have you seen that guy?? He has the strangest build I think I've ever seen on a human being :whaa:

The muslim guy is all legs, fairly long arms, and a torso about 1/2 the size of a normal human. The guys true calling might be circus freak - really a strangely built guy.

[rbaloha1]

The Packers defense will not be able to control new NFL offenses until Capers is replaced.

Capers career is defensing against pro offenses. The defense had an advantage since it did not have to account for the qb.

Carroll and Kiffin both had problems in college defensing zone read plays. Carroll figured it out -- Kiffin has yet to prove it. Belichek initially had problems with the wildcat but figured it out quickly.

Can Capers figure it out?

[wist43]

Couldn't be more wrong, strongly underestimating Lacy. Benson has no big play ability and isn't even on the Packers (small detail there). The 230 pounds thing is deceptive as I've never seen someone catch him from behind not to mention maybe already having the best spin move in the NFL without even playing a down. These picks allow a backfield of Lacy, Franklin and Harris. Gotta factor Franklin was a hedge pick to not have all our eggs in one basket. Lacy only started for a year in Bama and ran over the highest ranked defense in the country not to mention breaking 1st and 2nd round pick tackles all season. Big holes, sure, but watch some of his "tape" and you'll see he made the most out of everything.

Turn a couple 3rd and short into conversions and our defense gets to stay off the field. 49ers game was more a result of piss-poor game planning than anything else.

Lacy is better than Benson, but he's in for a rude awakening when he starts running behind Green Bay pathetic line. Lacy running behind a kickass line is what is deceptive I think. He was running thru holes that looked like Alex Green running down the middle of the field in Hawaii's offense.

Ingram is pretty fair comparison. Super productive Alabama RB, gets drafted a passcentric team - he hasn't done much in the NFL. Ingram was a wasted pick for them if for no other reason than they simply weren't going to make use of him enough to justify the selection.

I think MM will try to call more running plays than New Orleans has offered to Ingram, but New Orleans OL is much better than ours. Lacy has no idea what he's in for I don't think.

As Merrill Hoge screamed at the idea of Green Bay drafting Lacy, "... NOOOOO!!! WHAT A WASTE!!!".

[rbaloha1]

Talk of tampons just throws me off a bit... a most confusing shopping task I will say.

As for the mess that TT drafted - it's deja vu all over again.

TT's drafts are nothing short of bizaare - and I think that's why he drives some of us nuts. Last year he takes dead aim at the mess he created in the front seven - but then didn't actually fix it. He drafted a bushel of good players - most of whom belong playing in another scheme - WTF??

Now our front seven is still a mess, but with different problems. So we take it on the chin for 579 yds, 323 yds rushing, and 45 pts - seemed pretty obvious to me that the whole thing was dysfunctional and that reconoiter was in order. TT responded by drafting Jones - okay fine - but then goes on a dart throwing rampage.

In other words - he moved down in the draft and passed on competent players at positions of great need for the opportunity to draft a bunch of developmental projects, most of whom will be cut in 6 months.

Just like everyone else its all speculation today. Jones better start. The other dt/ng appears to be a decent rotational player. Both appear to be one gap penetrators which is required against spread options.



The other idiotic thing he did was drafting 2 RB's that are almost clones of 2 players he already has on the roster (Benson and Harris). While they may be slight improvements over the previous guys, the picks are essentially lateral moves. We did not appreciably improve by drafting Lacy and Franklin - we already had most of that production on the roster.

We're not going to overcome the embarrassing beat down the Niners laid on us by drafting laterally and mining for bums.

The rbs are huge upgrades and allow to call more running plays.

[rbaloha1]

Lacy is better than Benson, but he's in for a rude awakening when he starts running behind Green Bay pathetic line. Lacy running behind a kickass line is what is deceptive I think. He was running thru holes that looked like Alex Green running down the middle of the field in Hawaii's offense.

Ingram is pretty fair comparison. Super productive Alabama RB, gets drafted a passcentric team - he hasn't done much in the NFL. Ingram was a wasted pick for them if for no other reason than they simply weren't going to make use of him enough to justify the selection.

I think MM will try to call more running plays than New Orleans has offered to Ingram, but New Orleans OL is much better than ours. Lacy has no idea what he's in for I don't think.

As Merrill Hoge screamed at the idea of Green Bay drafting Lacy, "... NOOOOO!!! WHAT A WASTE!!!".

It is a fair assessment about Lacy and Green. Green ran in parking lots at Hawaii.

[mission]

Career stats at Alabama
Mark Ingram 572 3261 5.7 42
Eddie Lacy 355 2402 6.8 30

Over a yard per carry difference. That's extra effort, agility and speed that Ingram just doesn't have.

Ingram was much more of a product of getting what was there (and what you're describing). I assumed you watched the national championship game... how many times did ND have 9 men in the box and at least one with a chance to make a tackle and Lacy would make the first guy miss? Seems like that will be happening to him a lot in Green Bay! lol

Here's every touch from the national champ game... not just highlights. He makes open field tacklers look like fools.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9NeqNEApgU

I never saw that kind of lateral quickness from Ingram. Ingram was much of an entitled NFL player's son with a little extra weight on him. We watch most Bama games around here and I wanted nothing to do with Ingram and everything to do with Lacy... it's not a "oh wow we got a Bama back" thing.

And I know you were just as frustrated as I was last year with how many times we'd have a running back just completely miss a hole or a cutback lane. I just don't see it here and I definitely don't see any similarities with Mark Ingram. None at all besides they both wore Crimson.

[rbaloha1]

We got 1 front seven player - Jones. The other guys are either camp fodder, special teams guys, or lateral replacements, in othe words, no improvement.

Is the muslim guy gonna supplant Newhouse?? Is EDS still our starting C?? Is MM going to stick with only those 3 running plays??

Lacy and Franklin might be improvements on Benson and Harris, but with all those other problems, how much did we really improve?? The RB's weren't entirely lateral moves, but the benefit to the team is marginal.

Now if the muslim guy is a player, then we're making some progress - but - have you seen that guy?? He has the strangest build I think I've ever seen on a human being :whaa:

The muslim guy is all legs, fairly long arms, and a torso about 1/2 the size of a normal human. The guys true calling might be circus freak - really a strangely built guy.

The Iranian guy's build looks squished from the video. He should start pronto or it is a bad selection.

[mission]

It is a fair assessment about Lacy and Green. Green ran in parking lots at Hawaii.

It's not close. Green highlight videos show holes 10 yards wide... Lacy almost single-handily cost Manti Te'o millions of dollars in dropping draft stock. Exposed him.

True Alabama had a great offensive line, but he faced NFL quality players in 8/9 man boxes in the best conference in the country. While we don't have the line, having Aaron Rodgers will definitely mean he'll never see 8 in the box. That's a wash IMO.

[mission]

Who's the muslim guy? Bukkake?

[Gunakor]

The other idiotic thing he did was drafting 2 RB's that are almost clones of 2 players he already has on the roster (Benson and Harris).


Benson isn't on our roster. He hasn't been since February. And even if he and Lacy are clones, Lacy is almost a decade younger. If the two were exactly the same on the field I'd still rather have Lacy simply because Lacy is a rookie with room to improve while Benson is what he is and isn't getting any better at this point.

[mission]

Just for fun here are Trent Richardson's Alabama stats: 540 3130 5.8 35
Lacy still has him by 1 ypc. I do think TR is a better pro prospect, but the offensive line thing allows us to compare these pretty honestly. Hoge's "waste" comment had more to do with wasting Lacy's potential in a passing attack than wasting the Packers #61 draft pick on a special talent.

[3irty1]

We got 1 front seven player - Jones. The other guys are either camp fodder, special teams guys, or lateral replacements, in othe words, no improvement.

Is the muslim guy gonna supplant Newhouse?? Is EDS still our starting C?? Is MM going to stick with only those 3 running plays??

Lacy and Franklin might be improvements on Benson and Harris, but with all those other problems, how much did we really improve?? The RB's weren't entirely lateral moves, but the benefit to the team is marginal.

Now if the muslim guy is a player, then we're making some progress - but - have you seen that guy?? He has the strangest build I think I've ever seen on a human being :whaa:

The muslim guy is all legs, fairly long arms, and a torso about 1/2 the size of a normal human. The guys true calling might be circus freak - really a strangely built guy.

Boyd is certainly going to see enough snaps to matter on the DL and is just the 2-gap tree stump we need to do dirty work for us. That's a very exciting pick in this fit.

On the OL, on or both of these guys can make a difference. I doubt either is more likely than Sherrod to supplant Newhouse but Bakhtiar certainly could. I don't have a problem with Bakhtiar's build, just that to me it doesn't seem like his strengths as an athlete don't seem to match his strengths as a football player. Physically with his feet and mobility you'd think he'd be a nice fit for the ZBS but he seems to overreach and play out of control when blocking at the 2nd level. He was pretty highly regarded predraft, 2nd or 3rd round pick so getting him in the 4th seems like good value especially with the premium that was on the position.

Tretter will be a factor this year IMO because I think he's a center. He's got the perfect build for it and with his tight end background you know he's got the hands required. Last year McCarthy went with Saturday because of how good he was between the ears, Tretter is an Ivy League player and every coach who gets a chance mentions how bright he is. I don't think EDS is a liability at center but it would be pretty awesome to get a bigger stronger guy in there who can do more at the 2nd level.

Even if both of those guys are just competing at G/T McCarthy mentioned in his presser yesterday that Lang can play center so if either of these guys can play anywhere, we'll have a way to get them on the field.

[MJZiggy]

Talk of tampons just throws me off a bit... a most confusing shopping task I will say.

As for the mess that TT drafted - it's deja vu all over again.

TT's drafts are nothing short of bizaare - and I think that's why he drives some of us nuts. Last year he takes dead aim at the mess he created in the front seven - but then didn't actually fix it. He drafted a bushel of good players - most of whom belong playing in another scheme - WTF??


Now our front seven is still a mess, but with different problems. So we take it on the chin for 579 yds, 323 yds rushing, and 45 pts - seemed pretty obvious to me that the whole thing was dysfunctional and that reconoiter was in order. TT responded by drafting Jones - okay fine - but then goes on a dart throwing rampage.

In other words - he moved down in the draft and passed on competent players at positions of great need for the opportunity to draft a bunch of developmental projects, most of whom will be cut in 6 months.

The other idiotic thing he did was drafting 2 RB's that are almost clones of 2 players he already has on the roster (Benson and Harris). While they may be slight improvements over the previous guys, the picks are essentially lateral moves. We did not appreciably improve by drafting Lacy and Franklin - we already had most of that production on the roster.

We're not going to overcome the embarrassing beat down the Niners laid on us by drafting laterally and mining for bums.

If it makes you feel any better, it's gotten so it confuses us as well and we have to use the damned things. I was referring to your contention that drafting Lacy was like a punishment to him because we don't run the ball. But we just drafted a bunch of personnel to shore up the offensive line, no? That suggests to me that we want to put more of an emphasis on that part of the game. And I don't watch college ball, so I don't know any of these kids, but I can kinda see where TT was going, here. I do know that we've had crap at RB the last few seasons and the chatter around here implies that Lacy and Franklin could contribute. And that is what you want from the draft. Kids with potential, who in a couple years could be feared.

And Mission, I think you may have just coined Bakhtiari's new nickname (probably only used by fans of other teams). Ew.

[HarveyWallbangers]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/blog/rob-rang/22158614/2013-nfl-draft-nfc-north-grades


Green Bay Packers

Anyone who watched the Packers get dismantled by San Francisco in the playoffs anticipated that general manager Ted Thompson would focus on defense early. He did so, nabbing productive defensive end Datone Jones from UCLA in the first round. Jones was terrific this past season and carried that over to the Senior Bowl. The Packers only had one selection on Day Two, but he could prove a steal, nabbing running back Eddie Lacy, a player whom many (including myself) projected them to take a round earlier. Lacy has drawn comparisons to Steven Jackson for his blend of power and agility. Considering the red-zone opportunities that he could get with Aaron Rodgers throwing the football, Lacy could be an offensive rookie of the year candidate -- if he beats out fourth-round selection Jonathan Franklin, who left UCLA as the team's all-time rushing leader and also turned heads at the Senior Bowl. Franklin was the headliner but was just one of the standouts from the Packers' impressive haul on Day Three. Frankly, no team got better value in rounds four and five than Green Bay. David Bakhtiari and J.C. Tretter are future contributors to an offensive line that needed reinforcements, and defenders Micah Hyde and Josh Boyd are good football players who didn't get enough national attention after being overshadowed by more high profile teams in their power conferences. Grade: A

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/jason-la-canfora/22152820/massive-weekend-for-the-packers-and-other-thoughts-after-7-rounds-of-the-nfl-draft

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2013/story/_/id/9200335/2013-nfl-draft-mel-kiper-gives-grades-every-nfl-team-draft


Summary: I love what Green Bay got out of this draft, particularly at two spots -- defensive end and running back. Datone Jones is a perfect scheme-fit for the defense. He's the penetrating 3-4 defensive end who should line up to the right of B.J. Raji. The Packers improved their pass rush last year after a disastrous 2011, and Jones is going to provide yet another player who can cause some problems for opposing quarterbacks. I know some teams have health questions with Eddie Lacy, but getting the guy I had as the No. 1 RB in the draft all the way down at No. 61 is terrific value. The Packers build their offensive portfolio off Aaron Rodgers' arm, but it'd be nice to see that 43-game streak of no running backs reaching 100 yards come to an end. Remember, Rodgers also took plenty of hits over the last two years, so a little more reliability in the run game is key. Adding to that, Johnathan Franklin will produce if called upon. That position is now a strength. There isn't a lot else here that will factor into the 2013 plans. J.C. Tretter can give them reps, but won't be needed early. One sleeper here is Charles Johnson from Grand Valley State. I thought he might come off much earlier than No. 216. Green Bay did well with its early picks, and that's plenty.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/55883/nfc-north-draft-analysis-5

BEST MOVE


Thompson and the Packers had been trying to patch together the position ever since Ryan Grant broke his ankle in Week 1 of the 2010 season. It was time to find a more permanent solution, and Lacy and Franklin give them the personnel infusion they needed.

[red]

lots of A's and A-'s out there right now for our draft

the more i think about it, the more excited i am about our brand new thunder and lightning running game

should help keep the defense fresh, and keep teams honest so a-rod can blow them away. and we should have no problem running out the clock at the end of games anymore

[rbaloha1]

Its clear the packers are moving away from 2 gap to more 1 gap as evidenced by Tgorvac stating he is looking for penetrators on film.

Maybe this helps Raji.

[woodbuck27]

Here 's some NFCN Draft Grade LINKS:

http://fansided.com/category/nfl/nfc-north/

[pbmax]

Its clear the packers are moving away from 2 gap to more 1 gap as evidenced by Tgorvac stating he is looking for penetrators on film.

Maybe this helps Raji.

The Packers have normally 1 gapped more than 2 gapped. But there is a difference between 1 gapping and a headlong rush into the backfield, separating yourself from your teammates with too much depth (see Raji versus Vikings, 2nd half, 2nd Vikings game) and creating gaps for backs to scoot through.

Back in the day of its initial installation, the Steelers of Cowher, Capers and LeBeau 2 gapped like a traditional, static 3-4. If I am not mistaken, the Steelers had already installed a 3-4 before Cowher's arrival (Dungy was on the staff that left). That changed as the decade wore on until LeBeau came back as DC and essentially started to use 1 gap as the basic approach. Darren Perry talked about this happening during his time in the Burgh. He was responding to reporters who expected 2 gap, all the time.

Dungy, by the way, kept his 3-4 principles in place through his stint in Minnesota until he landed the HC gig in Tampa. There he and holdover Monte Kiffin hashed out an approach that kept Kiffin's 4-3 Under and merged it with Dungy's zone. Boom, Tampa 2.

Kiffin BTW, taught that Defense to a guy named Pete Carroll and a bunch of others.

[pbmax]

BTW red, congrats on the second highest number of views in Packerrats, Packers Room thread history. You are above Tebow and below Favre.

[mission]

BTW red, congrats on the second highest number of views in Packerrats, Packers Room thread history. You are above Tebow and below Favre.

That's big time right there.

[red]

BTW red, congrats on the second highest number of views in Packerrats, Packers Room thread history. You are above Tebow and below Favre.

thank ya

my goal is 100 pages

[Guiness]

Here 's some NFCN Draft Grade LINKS:

http://fansided.com/category/nfl/nfc-north/

At least that site had the good sense not to automatically give the Vikings an A+ simply because they drafted three names they recognized.

Questionable move by them, as well, drafting Jeff Locke, the punter from UCLA. I'd guess they're getting tired of his activism, and this is a message to him to concentrate on football. I don't think it will work.

[rbaloha1]

All gapping requires discipline and trust in your teammates.

The Lebeau zone blitz creation was to occupy blockers with large 2 gappers and disguise where the blitzes are coming from.

The problems are teams know where the blitzes are coming from and receivers run to the vacated areas. The geometry of the zone read option and pistol creates more problems.

CK is a long strider -- needs to be tackled before he turns shoulders up the field. CK's footwork from college has improved and is taking smaller strides which present more issues.

Capers better have some schemes ready.

[wist43]

Boyd is certainly going to see enough snaps to matter on the DL and is just the 2-gap tree stump we need to do dirty work for us. That's a very exciting pick in this fit.

On the OL, on or both of these guys can make a difference. I doubt either is more likely than Sherrod to supplant Newhouse but Bakhtiar certainly could. I don't have a problem with Bakhtiar's build, just that to me it doesn't seem like his strengths as an athlete don't seem to match his strengths as a football player. Physically with his feet and mobility you'd think he'd be a nice fit for the ZBS but he seems to overreach and play out of control when blocking at the 2nd level. He was pretty highly regarded predraft, 2nd or 3rd round pick so getting him in the 4th seems like good value especially with the premium that was on the position.

Tretter will be a factor this year IMO because I think he's a center. He's got the perfect build for it and with his tight end background you know he's got the hands required. Last year McCarthy went with Saturday because of how good he was between the ears, Tretter is an Ivy League player and every coach who gets a chance mentions how bright he is. I don't think EDS is a liability at center but it would be pretty awesome to get a bigger stronger guy in there who can do more at the 2nd level.

Even if both of those guys are just competing at G/T McCarthy mentioned in his presser yesterday that Lang can play center so if either of these guys can play anywhere, we'll have a way to get them on the field.

If Tretter blows us away, and seizes control of the C job?? If the muslim guy wins the RT job, and Bulaga solidify's LT?? If Boyd can actually play the nose (I don't think he can - I think he's CJ Wilson's replacement, i.e. a lateral move)?? If Capers gets his head out of his ass and actually plays more than 1 DL at a time?? If, if, if... and they're much bigger if's b/c TT went on the cheap again and went shopping for these items at the flea market.

Had TT just bitten the bullet and actually drafted a freaking Center, or drafted Brandon Williams when he had the chance, we could be talking about the prospects of an improved running game, and a no-doubter fire hydrant in the middle our D-line.

Instead, TT passed on Schwenke and Jones for an OG from Cornell, that they'll try at C - again, another patented TT/MM "versatile", master of none project; and passed on Williams for Boyd who is JAG.

Typical Ted draft... I think he's being paid cash under the table, and is running a Fight Club like training camp for the Arena League - that explains why he needs the all the bodies. Kind of like the Running Man - that's where Caleb Schlauderaff is right now.

[denverYooper]

thank ya

my goal is 100 pages

There's a lot of bumpable material in here.

[KYPack]

The Packers have normally 1 gapped more than 2 gapped. But there is a difference between 1 gapping and a headlong rush into the backfield, separating yourself from your teammates with too much depth (see Raji versus Vikings, 2nd half, 2nd Vikings game) and creating gaps for backs to scoot through.

Back in the day of its initial installation, the Steelers of Cowher, Capers and LeBeau 2 gapped like a traditional, static 3-4. If I am not mistaken, the Steelers had already installed a 3-4 before Cowher's arrival (Dungy was on the staff that left). That changed as the decade wore on until LeBeau came back as DC and essentially started to use 1 gap as the basic approach. Darren Perry talked about this happening during his time in the Burgh. He was responding to reporters who expected 2 gap, all the time.

Dungy, by the way, kept his 3-4 principles in place through his stint in Minnesota until he landed the HC gig in Tampa. There he and holdover Monte Kiffin hashed out an approach that kept Kiffin's 4-3 Under and merged it with Dungy's zone. Boom, Tampa 2.

Kiffin BTW, taught that Defense to a guy named Pete Carroll and a bunch of others.

Pitt two gapped all along their 30 front. LeBeau likes to play it super conservative on his down lineman. They also did it bc they had the troops to get 2 gapping done. That may change with Hampton gone, Keisel in his final years, etc.

GB only two gaps at the zero tech. When Raji moves to a 5 tech, he one gaps. Very few GBP DLineman CAN two gap. The NFL rule of thumb is usually if you have a hand in the dirt guy who can two gap, you do it. Haloti Ngata two gaps regardless of his technique. Because he can do it.

[3irty1]

If Tretter blows us away, and seizes control of the C job?? If the muslim guy wins the RT job, and Bulaga solidify's LT?? If Boyd can actually play the nose (I don't think he can - I think he's CJ Wilson's replacement, i.e. a lateral move)?? If Capers gets his head out of his ass and actually plays more than 1 DL at a time?? If, if, if... and they're much bigger if's b/c TT went on the cheap again and went shopping for these items at the flea market.

Had TT just bitten the bullet and actually drafted a freaking Center, or drafted Brandon Williams when he had the chance, we could be talking about the prospects of an improved running game, and a no-doubter fire hydrant in the middle our D-line.

Instead, TT passed on Schwenke and Jones for an OG from Cornell, that they'll try at C - again, another patented TT/MM "versatile", master of none project; and passed on Williams for Boyd who is JAG.

Typical Ted draft... I think he's being paid cash under the table, and is running a Fight Club like training camp for the Arena League - that explains why he needs the all the bodies. Kind of like the Running Man - that's where Caleb Schlauderaff is right now.

It does kind of seem counterproductive for Ted to use his team of nfl scouts, weeks of game tape analysis, personal interviews, personal workouts, and considerable other resources to draft a dozen JAGs when he had numerous chances to pick the future hall of famer from Missouri Southern State that you watched a youtube video of.

[RashanGary]

Pitt two gapped all along their 30 front. LeBeau likes to play it super conservative on his down lineman. They also did it bc they had the troops to get 2 gapping done. That may change with Hampton gone, Keisel in his final years, etc.

GB only two gaps at the zero tech. When Raji moves to a 5 tech, he one gaps. Very few GBP DLineman CAN two gap. The NFL rule of thumb is usually if you have a hand in the dirt guy who can two gap, you do it. Haloti Ngata two gaps regardless of his technique. Because he can do it.


Whoa! Does Pickett always 2-gap?

[KYPack]

Whoa! Does Pickett always 2-gap?

No.

When he plays 5 tech, he one gaps.

Capers only two gaps from his zero tech guy.

[wist43]

It does kind of seem counterproductive for Ted to use his team of nfl scouts, weeks of game tape analysis, personal interviews, personal workouts, and considerable other resources to draft a dozen JAGs when he had numerous chances to pick the future hall of famer from Missouri Southern State that you watched a youtube video of.

Williams and Schwenke were drafted before your guys for a reason. Boyd might not even make the team... my good man, he had all of 2 1/2 TFL's last season. Jones had 19.

We're talking about completely different caliber of player. Williams is a legit trench player - nobody doubts that. A lot of people have doubts that Boyd is even a rosterable player. I watched the Senior Bowl practices and game of Boyd, and another MSU game... pretty sure he can't 2-gap or hold up against double teams. He might not make the roster.

That's the difference between what you and I are talking about. Arthur Brown, Sio Moore, Bennie Logan, Brian Winters, Hugh Thorton, Corey Lemonier, Alex Okafor, Barrett Jones... those are a lot of players to pass over for the muslim guy and JC Tretter - who you want to project to another position. Then you want to move this guy here, and that guy there... seems like a lot of unknown moving parts. What could possibly go wrong??

Sounds like a pretty dicey approach to protecting your $100 million investment?? 51 sacks?? ouch :doh:

[3irty1]

Hahaha your boy played in DII MIAA, Boyd played in the SEC and you want to compare their stats. That is beyond retarded wist, even for your usual brand of Skip-Bayless-in-a-vodka-soaked-depression sensationalism.

[run pMc]

I'm warming up to the draft picks.
Datone Jones doesn't wow me, but we needed more troops at the DL, and he's a bigger leaner guy -- again, something the DL needed. They had a lot of squatty guys. Boyd was kind of a sleeper for some people and I think they want to try him inside first but if he's another C.J. Wilson that's not horrible in terms of run defense. Not expecting a whole lot of 'wow' plays from Boyd, but if he can do his job and tie up blockers so the LBs can smash someone that's not awful.

I don't think Lacy gets more than 180 carries; he has to get pass pro down, he has to beat out a crowded stable of backs. He and Franklin raise the quality of competition, and an improved running game (or the threat thereof) will help as much as anything to keep the passing game humming along. The injury history thing with Lacy is another concern; I'm not sure he can take 16+ games of 20 carries. For that reason, taking Franklin is a nice handcuff move. Again, this assumes both are on the roster opening day -- a good bet, considering their draft status and the preexisting stable of backs.

The OL picks are for depth and improve the level of competition. Pushing the starters and providing depth that's a cut above UDFA's is a plus. I don't like Bulaga moving to LT -- I think he should stay RT. He has had trouble with speed rushers going back to his college days and I think playing LT would really expose that. I'll be really curious to see where they put Bahktiari and Tretter -- that will tell us a lot about where the team thinks they can play and help best.

The WR picks are...well, they're R7 picks so I'm not expecting much. I was hoping they'd go for a WR much earlier, but based on the measurables alone -- which is a horrible thing to do -- they sound like they were good value. The Maryland WR supposedly had so much turnover at QB that even Rico Dynamite's time machine got a chance at snaps.

Don't know a thing about the OLB (Palmer?) so I have no comment other than they needed more competition there. They only have Matthews, Perry, and Moses at OLB. One of the UDFA's -- Mulumba or whatever -- supposedly is kind of a sleeper and I could see him becoming this year's So'oto. The Barrington kid is supposedly kind of a knucklehead but a pretty good player. He'll play ST and push for time. If nothing else he's bigger than D.J.Smith.

Some other teams seem to have really done well and drafted a lot of "name" players, so it's tempting to think they did better. I'm not a scout so I can't say I'm smarter than they are, but I do know that 3 years from now we'll know if these guys are any good or not.

[3irty1]

And yeah, you said yourself they draft for versatility. Gee I wonder if they want them to play multiple positions. Most of the guys on our roster were left tackles in college, and so were the two guys picked up this year. Clearly most of them change positions so I don't know why you're pretending its even remotely sketchy.

[woodbuck27]

Hahaha your boy played in DII MIAA, Boyd played in the SEC and you want to compare their stats. That is beyond retarded wist, even for your usual brand of Skip-Bayless-in-a-vodka-soaked-depression sensationalism.

Hey man. Your way too smart for this:

I'll omit a few names of fellas above that all went much earlier than when TT selected DE Josh Boyd.

Arthur Brown, Bennie Logan, Brian Winters, Corey Lemonier, Alex Okafor, Barrett Jones or:

TT's pick of DE Josh Boyd Rd. 5 (Pick 167 overall)

Why are we even wanting to look at any comparison? Why waste that time? Clearly the players above are more solid projections into the NFL.

TT had a focus in that draft that didn't have alot to do with growing where we're obviously 'still' weakest:

DEFENSE

Did you not see how we did last year against 'serious' Super Bowl contenders? I did and we got our asses handed to us.

The San Francisco 49ers were much more competitive that us last year and this off season their kicking TT's ass. It's not even close now.

Damn... to be straight up. The Minnesota Vikings are licking TT's ass this off season. They had 'arguably' the best draft of all 32 teams. That's ** two very solid drafts in consecutive years for Minny.

**Are you paying attention to that fact Packer fans?

Add the Seahawks and their Off Season. That thank goodness, fell off somewhat in this draft.

Check out the Bears results in this draft.They did very well in my view but opinions on that are mixed. Inspite of that the Bears graded out at least as well as the Packers.

The Packers were just ahead of Minny and the Bears last season and both of those teams are certinly addressing that fact in this of season. The Packers...not so much. The Packers are relying on time and healing and the status quo. That adversity will ease up in 2013. That a playoff berth will lead to good fortune and a deep run in the playoffs.

This draft for TT could best be described as:

STRANGE. Too weird. I'll be very kind...puzzling.

That draft by TT was a certain head scratcher. It's like he was under some serious strain. As Packer fans we might look at this draft in a certain light of reality and be very concerned for the team and Ted Thompson.

Why so many members of Packerrats don't get it (see this) amazes me.

Are posters like Wist43 and I supposed to be excited or brain washed?

Forget that bullshit. We see it clearly as it is. We post with nothing but real concern.

Wist43 and I really care.

PACKERS!

[rbaloha1]

woodbuck27,

I share your Packer passion and courage to continually bring up the niner game debacle. Too many posters had many excuses like only six days to prepare, gimmick/trendy offense (just like the wildcat), fluke, etc. etc. Other posters recognized the immense defensive problems but were crucified by apologists (not analysis).

IMO TT addressed the overall team toughness issue with bringing in these type of players across the roster. While I wanted more front seven help at least there are a few players that could be part of a rotation. Several players with little playing time could step-up.

Capers ego has been destroyed. Hopefully he found some schemes that could work against the niners.

Woodbuck27, can we wait until the niner opener before we trash or praise TT's draft and lack of free agent moves to address the front seven?

[woodbuck27]

woodbuck27,

I share your Packer passion and courage to continually bring up the niner game debacle. Too many posters had many excuses like only six days to prepare, gimmick/trendy offense (just like the wildcat), fluke, etc. etc. Other posters recognized the immense defensive problems but were crucified by apologists (not analysis).

IMO TT addressed the overall team toughness issue with bringing in these type of players across the roster. While I wanted more front seven help at least there are a few players that could be part of a rotation. Several players with little playing time could step-up.

Capers ego has been destroyed. Hopefully he found some schemes that could work against the niners.

Woodbuck27, can we wait until the niner opener before we trash or praise TT's draft and lack of free agent moves to address the front seven?

First of all Packer fan. Your posting here >>> Impressive now. Congratulations.

It takes some time to fit in if you feel any need to embrace 'the clique'. My advice... take them with a grain of salt and defend your observations as merited.

I enjoyed your contributions to the Draft thread. Especially when it was, IMO getting very strange on Saturday. Those of us that were here; felt TT's draft really know.The peanut gallery...pffffftt. It's easy to make generalizations when your 'a homer'. Easy to make generalizations when you don't have a clue as to the merits or not of the argument.

Ignorance is bliss.

Out front:

You belong here and forget the posters that are blind to anything even approaching real. Forget the 'homers' here. They cannot see much past anything, not Green and Gold.

OK to your suggestion. Please... don't get me wrong. I'm by nature analytical. The bottom line ...'just' like Wist43 ... a solid and concerned Green Bay Packer fan. Posters like Wist43 and I have thick skin. We certainly believe in our stances and thus cannot back off....demonstrate such weakness.

As to the prospects that Ted Thompson selected.

Our teams Draft Class and infusion of lifeblood. I'm totally pulling for every one of them. At the same time know that of the eleven men TT picked. Most won't make any real contribution. Certainly not based in their resume's. Yet, sometimes we cannot account for heart and determination. I wish them all well.

One more thing and Packerrats:

It's 'only' tough here if you miss the obvious. I've suffered the ultimate insult here as a 50 plus year Packer fan. I've read stuff from homers here... inferring that I'm a TROLL. Some here love to throw stones. My advice... ignore their ignorance. Ignore their obvious stupidity and arrogance. Ignore their slide ways.

I don't take that (my own) advice. I'm a realist.

Encountering such ignorance is a part of living life's challenge. I've never been 'a turn the other cheek' guy. I'm an 'in your face' guy. Bring shit down on me and you get something you don't need back.

It takes 'skill and integrity' to show them up for what they are. A definite style. The bottom line overall; their hardly worth the spit. There's the rub and the caution. :wink:

At Packerrats...there are NO leaders.

We have a benevolent/fair/owner/leader... that sometimes has to deal with over the top, too much crap; I'm 'just' guessing. I'm sure he takes it all the best he can and in stride. It's one of those 'it comes with the territory' things. Some posters cannot get out of their own way and merely imagine they're more important than the rest of us. I assure of this. I never complain to a soul here. I merely defend myself / my positions as I feel necessary.

Brush those posters off with 'your honesty...your strength and integrity'. Don't ever let any of them get inside of you. Best poicy again...ignore them. There's not many left anyway. That kind usually comes and goes when their frustration level exceeds themselves.

Some hang on as it's in their nature to try to dominate and force their agenda's on the whole. Usually their exposed; lack any punch.

Be your 'own man' with 'a good style'. **Post with goodness.

** Just where your at now. :wink:

BE all about this:

GO PACK GO !

[wist43]

Hahaha your boy played in DII MIAA, Boyd played in the SEC and you want to compare their stats. That is beyond retarded wist, even for your usual brand of Skip-Bayless-in-a-vodka-soaked-depression sensationalism.

I didn't say anything about Williams stats - Jones had 19 TFL's.

Williams outperformed Boyd at the Senior Bowl, and nobody would argue otherwise. He's much bigger, stronger, and more athletic.

Take some time to watch games of Boyd... he's invisible. That's what you guys seem to like in your linemen though - invisibility isn't on my checklist.

[woodbuck27]

Packers GM Ted Thompson speaks briefly to the media after the draft:

http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/Ted-Thompson-2013-Draft-increases-competition/0da085ab-d3b9-4592-bc87-15ceb830ae5c

GO PACK GO !

[wist43]

And yeah, you said yourself they draft for versatility. Gee I wonder if they want them to play multiple positions. Most of the guys on our roster were left tackles in college, and so were the two guys picked up this year. Clearly most of them change positions so I don't know why you're pretending its even remotely sketchy.

They do draft "versatile" lineman... but I've never liked it. You need a guard, at least make sure you're drafting a guard. If he can play C or OT is incidental to what I'm trying accomplish, which is to put a quality guard in the lineup. Same holds for the other positions - TT has never, get that - never, drafted a center.

You wonder why our OL has been in constant upheavel since TT and MM arrived?? And what good play we did get out of the line had a lot to do with offensive linemen they inherited, Clifton and Wells. Now that those 2 are gone - LT and C are a mess.

Yeah, "versatility" has served us well hasn't it?? Everyone agrees that Green Bay has now, and has had for years, a lot of problems on the OL. This nonsense has been going on for 8 years now - we've never had a good line since TT has been here.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2013/4/27/4275760/green-bay-packers-picks-2013-nfl-draft

Green Bay Packers draft: Complete list of picks

By Kevin McCauley on Apr 27 2013, 5:53PM

Here is the full Packers' Draft board.

Round Pick # Overall Selection

1 26 26 Datone Jones, DE, UCLA

2 29 61 Eddie Lacy, RB, Alabama

4 12 109 David Bakhtiari, T, Colorado
4 25 122 J.C. Tretter, G/T, Cornell
4 28 125 Johnathan Franklin, RB, UCLA

5 26 159 Micah Hyde, DB, Iowa
5 34 167 Josh Boyd, DT, Mississippi State

6 25 193 Nate Palmer, OLB, Illinois State

7 10 216 Charles Johnson, WR, Grand Valley State
7 18 224 Kevin Dorsey, WR, Maryland
7 26 232 Sam Barrington, LB, South Florida

GO PACKERS !

[Bretsky]

I'm on record as not being fond of the Boyd pick although I hope I'm wrong.
I really do hate the trade down from round three though; I think a bunch of guys were snatched up before us that could have offered up immediate impact. I think the upside is low for Boyd. We'll get what we'll get. Another big body to throw into the mix that can give our guys some rest.

Overall I"m ok with this draft.

IF the rats truly want to go on record, we should create our own draft.....list every pick we'd have made in TT's spot. And make the trade down from round 3 optional. Either you take the picks or not.

Anybody want to give it a try ??

[gbgary]

I really do hate the trade down from round three though; I think a bunch of guys were snatched up before us that could have offered up immediate impact.

Overall I"m ok with this draft.



i agree with this.

[Guiness]

IF the rats truly want to go on record, we should create our own draft.....list every pick we'd have made in TT's spot. And make the trade down from round 3 optional. Either you take the picks or not.

Anybody want to give it a try ??

Interesting.

I'm not enough of a draftnick to pick all the way down to the 7th round, but I'll chime in on some of the earlier ones, and I won't trade.

R1 - I would have gone with Cyprien, but I like the Datone pick and think it was a better choice
R2 - Lacy
R3 (88) - A couple of players I like here. Barrett Jones, and Matt Barkley. I thought Barkley had fallen enough to make him a good pick
R4 (122 and 125) - I like the Franklin pick, I don't know why he was still there. Not so much the Tretter pick. I'm sure when these picks came up TT was wishing he had the R2 pick back. On the board at this point is Gholston (taken with next pick), Quinton Patton and Williams, the big Alabama DT, all intriguing players.

[KYPack]

I'm on record as not being fond of the Boyd pick although I hope I'm wrong.
I really do hate the trade down from round three though; I think a bunch of guys were snatched up before us that could have offered up immediate impact. I think the upside is low for Boyd. We'll get what we'll get. Another big body to throw into the mix that can give our guys some rest.

Overall I'm ok with this draft.



Yeah, for what I can understand of the draft, this was a good one.

The trade down was painful.

But...

Everybody said the middle of the draft was target rich.

We had to give up something to get those extra mid picks.

So, we did.

It stung a little bit , but we may have really scored with TT's strategy.

[3irty1]

I didn't say anything about Williams stats - Jones had 19 TFL's.

Williams outperformed Boyd at the Senior Bowl, and nobody would argue otherwise. He's much bigger, stronger, and more athletic.

Take some time to watch games of Boyd... he's invisible. That's what you guys seem to like in your linemen though - invisibility isn't on my checklist.

Williams certainly has a rare game I won't fight you on that. Dudes that big with that kind pop off the line are not normal. But the fact that he exists doesn't take away from Boyd especially since you're mostly into Williams so much because you're looking to replace Raji because of your perception that he's a lousy nose tackle. I've never known you to change your mind so I won't argue with that again but its not a popular view. I'm not really looking to replace Raji with a diet version of the same thing.

[Joemailman]

The only thing I can definitely say I would have done differently is I would have drafted Quinton Patton instead of one of the O-linemen in the 4th round.

[wist43]

Williams certainly has a rare game I won't fight you on that. Dudes that big with that kind pop off the line are not normal. But the fact that he exists doesn't take away from Boyd especially since you're mostly into Williams so much because you're looking to replace Raji because of your perception that he's a lousy nose tackle. I've never known you to change your mind so I won't argue with that again but its not a popular view. I'm not really looking to replace Raji with a diet version of the same thing.

I don't want to replace Raji - I want to maximize his talent... which means getting him off the nose.

I wouldn't be looking for pass rush out of Williams - I'd want him to eat offensive lineman alive and beat the hell out of any running back in his zip code.

Boyd is just another one of these generic DT's who lacks any special talent that would set him apart. Williams on the other hand possesses special traits that make him much more valuable.

What we're arguing about here, is the muslim guy and Boyd, worth Williams. IMO, not even close.

[Joemailman]

I don't want to replace Raji - I want to maximize his talent... which means getting him off the nose.

I wouldn't be looking for pass rush out of Williams - I'd want him to eat offensive lineman alive and beat the hell out of any running back in his zip code.

Boyd is just another one of these generic DT's who lacks any special talent that would set him apart. Williams on the other hand possesses special traits that make him much more valuable.

What we're arguing about here, is the muslim guy and Boyd, worth Williams. IMO, not even close.

Perhaps TT shared your concern expressed last week that Williams' thin legs would lead to injury. Every GM in the league passed on him 4 times. There must be some reason why a guy thought at one time to be a late 1st/early 2nd pick was still available in the 5th round.

[rbaloha1]

Perhaps TT shared your concern expressed last week that Williams' thin legs would lead to injury. Every GM in the league passed on him 4 times. There must be some reason why a guy thought at one time to be a late 1st/early 2nd pick was still available in the 5th round.

Raji dominates inferior linemen but gets dominated by pro bowl caliber linemen.

Hopefully Boyd emerges as Raji's replacement.

[3irty1]

I don't want to replace Raji - I want to maximize his talent... which means getting him off the nose.

I wouldn't be looking for pass rush out of Williams - I'd want him to eat offensive lineman alive and beat the hell out of any running back in his zip code.

Boyd is just another one of these generic DT's who lacks any special talent that would set him apart. Williams on the other hand possesses special traits that make him much more valuable.

What we're arguing about here, is the muslim guy and Boyd, worth Williams. IMO, not even close.

Seems to me like Williams is is a poor man's Raji. Both a big blobs but with enough explosion to get after the passer. Raji has some better movement skills and a lot more big boy experience but they're in the same mold. What makes you think what's right for Williams is wrong for Raji?

What sets Boyd apart for me is motor, lateral movement, and his quickness with his hands. He's not a super sexy freak of nature like Williams or Dontari Poe last year but I do think he's got the skill set to perform well above his pay check and is a damn near perfect fit for LDE in our scheme. If moving Raji is all that matters a LDE can do it just as well by displacing Pickett who can displace Raji. Not sure how you feel about Johnathan Hankins but I see Boyd as a player who can do some of what Hankins does but a lot more pigeon-holed to scheme and for a lot better value to the Packers. Boyd plays high more often than Hankins but gives better effort over the course of a game. I think the motor is the harder part to coach. Get Boyd focused as a 2-gap specialist at LDE and he can be a rangy run stuffer like Jolly has been for us.

[woodbuck27]

The only thing I can definitely say I would have done differently is I would have drafted Quinton Patton instead of one of the O-linemen in the 4th round.

Yup...it just went on and on and on with the TT way in this draft.

I was certainly pulling for that WR as well. So what pissed me off there. Look who he slipped by TT too? Ohh Dear...there's the San Fran 49ers again! What's this buddy-buddy thing with TT and the 49ers, or so it appears... from this draft? This is three significant moves by the Green Bay Packers that allowed that team to have an outstanding performance in this draft.

Even after their Rd. 1 move that netted them FS Eric Reid. Didn't we like Eric Reid on this board? Wern't we aware of the 49ers strong potential pressence in this draft? TT sure ...should have been.

Wasn't TT aware of what that team is capable of?

Excuse me for being 'just a fan'.

The Green Bay Packers chance at WR Quinton Patton. At 6'- 0" 204 ... didn't he look like a WR to TT? Wasn't Quinton Patton excellent value at Pick #122?

Rd. 4 (109) Packers (From Saints through Dolphins) ... David Bakhtiari, OT; Colorado

Rd. 4 (122) Packers ... JC Tretter, OT; Cornell

Rd. 4 (128) San Fran 49ers ... Quinton Patton, WR; Louisiana Tech

It's too late now for the draft but not ever too late to learn.

PACKERS !

[Joemailman]

Yup...it just went on and on and on with the TT way in this draft.

I was certainly pulling for that WR as well. So what pissed me off there. Look who he slipped by TT too? Ohh Dear...there's the San Fran 49ers again! What's this buddy-buddy thing with TT and the 49ers, or so it appears... from this draft? This is three significant moves by the Green Bay Packers that allowed that team to have an outstanding performance in this draft.

Even after their Rd. 1 move that netted them FS Eric Reid. Didn't we like Eric Reid on this board? Wern't we aware of the 49ers strong potential pressence in this draft? TT sure ...should have been.

Wasn't TT aware of what that team is capable of?

Excuse me for being 'just a fan'.

The Green Bay Packers chance at WR Quinton Patton. At 6'- 0" 204 ... didn't he look like a WR to TT? Wasn't Quinton Patton excellent value at Pick #122?

Rd. 4 (109) Packers (From Saints through Dolphins) ... David Bakhtiari, OT; Colorado

Rd. 4 (122) Packers ... JC Tretter, OT; Cornell

Rd. 4 (128) San Fran 49ers ... Quinton Patton, WR; Louisiana Tech

It's too late now for the draft but not ever too late to learn.

PACKERS !

To learn what? None of these guys have played yet. Maybe TT didn't take Patton because he thought there were WR's later in the draft who are just as good.

[woodbuck27]

To learn what? None of these guys have played yet. Maybe TT didn't take Patton because he thought there were WR's later in the draft who are just as good.

Well indeed...I'm guessing that your correct.

[wist43]

To learn what? None of these guys have played yet. Maybe TT didn't take Patton because he thought there were WR's later in the draft who are just as good.

On that score, I'd say TT may have hit on Johnson. His measureable are great - while I hate TT's constant bum mining, and the numbers do not support his approach, he may have found a player in Johnson.

All of the other spitballs will likely be cut along the way as we approach the season, but I'd try to find a way to keep this guy on the roster and develop him.

[RashanGary]

Grand Valley Coach says he has great ball skills. Obviously he's an impressive physical specimen.

[woodbuck27]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1621026-nfl-draft-2013-results-biggest-winners-losers-of-the-nfl-draft#/articles/1621400-2013-nfl-draft-highlighting-each-teams-best-individual-selection/page/13

2013 NFL Draft: Highlighting Each Team's Best Individual Selection

By Brandon Holstein (Featured Columnist)

on April 30, 2013

GREEN BAY PACKERS:

Johnathan Franklin, RB, UCLA: Round 4, Pick 28

" Everyone wants to talk about what a steal the Packers got in Eddie Lacy in Round 2, but I'm not so sure Johnathan Franklin doesn't provide the better overall value in the fourth round.

As a back that's built low to the ground and exhibits an excellent blend of patience, burst and overall vision, Franklin will pair with Lacy to finally give the Packers the one-two punch in the running game they have went far too long without.

The best general managers do a good job of maximizing need with value, and Ted Thompson nailed this draft by making a pair of selections that only further complement the Packers' already potent offensive attack—once again proving why he is the man in charge up in Green Bay." Fr. LINK

GO PACK GO !

[woodbuck27]

Ted Thompson's constant failure to make Draft Trade Transactions and fail to get decent value back for 'the Green Bay Packers'.

Here is one of the biggest reasons that Ted Thompson let me down in this draft. I watched it happen once and was shocked. To watch it happen 2-3-4 times was ridiculous... not acceptable.

Here are the details. Is this really OK?

NFL DRAFT - TRADE VALUE CHART:

http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php

All Transactions in the 2013 NFL DRAFT:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap1000000161121/article/2013-nfl-draft-trade-tracker-details-of-all-the-moves

Packers Transactions - 2013 NFL DRAFT:

#4 Transaction

Johnathan Franklin drafted by Packers after trade with Broncos

The Packers receive: 2013 fourth-round pick...No. 125: RB Johnathan Franklin

Broncos receive:

2013 fifth-round pick... No. 146 Was Fr. Dolphins: DE Quanterus Smith

and ... 2013 sixth-round pick ... No. 173: Was Fr. 49ers ... OT Vinston Painter

Transaction ... Packers owe Broncos 14 Pts

Surely TT will make this work OK for the Green Bay Packers...NO WAY !

Ted Thompson gives back to the Broncos Rd. 6 Pick #173 or 22.2 Pts.

That's 'a loss' to the Green Bay Packers of 8.2 Pts; or a mid 7th rd. pick value value... gone !

Add it all up and see for yourself what Ted Thompson; 'just' gave away to the 49ers,Dolphins and finally Broncos.

Why did Ted Thompson allow this to happen.

It all adds up to 78 Trade Value Points or Equivalent to a Mid 4th round Pick.

Was that insignificant to Ted Thompson? Just a little spilled milk?

Analysis: The Packers traded up to select another high-profile running back, taking UCLA's Johnathan Franklin. The Packers drafted Alabama running back Eddie Lacy at No. 61 overall Friday.

NFL Network analyst Charles Davis liked the move by the Packers:

"I think this is a big-time value pick. Johnathan Franklin plays bigger than what you think. He's compact, but he'll run inside the tackles. His problem in the past: Putting the ball on the ground." Charles Davis

**********************************************

#3 Transaction: Friday, April 26

Dolphins trade for another third-round pick

Dolphins receive: 2013 third-round pick No. 93: Was Fr. 49ers ... CB Will Davis

The Packers receive:

2013 fourth-round pick No. 109: OT David Bakhtiari

2013 fifth-round pick No. 146: Traded to Broncos

2013 seventh-round pick... No. 224: WR Kevin Dorsey

This trade is worth 52 Pts back to the Packers. We 'only' got 33 + 2 = 35 Pts back.

The -ve differential >>> Dolphins = 17 Pts or on the Trade Value Chart = Rd. 6 (26) Pick # 126 overall.

TT's taken again !

Analysis: The Dolphins continued to make moves in the third round of the 2013 NFL Draft, sending three picks to the Packers in order to select Utah State cornerback Will Davis at No. 93 overall.

NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock didn't see Davis going in the third round: "I had a fifth-round grade on Davis. But he's a man corner with good ball skills. He'll be physical."

**********************************************

#2 Transaction:

San Fran 49ers make deal with Packers to draft DE Corey Lemonier

49ers receive:2013 third-round pick ...No. 88: DE Corey Lemonier

Packers receive: 2013 third-round pick...No. 93: (Traded to Dolphins)

2013 seventh-round pick ... No. 216: WR Charles Johnson

Trade Value to Packers Fr. San Fran 49ers = 22 Pts

7th Rd. #216 = 5 Pts

SO ... The San Fran 49ers now take Ted Thompson and the Green Bay Packers down for:

17 Pts + 35.8 Pts = Total of 52.8 Pts or equiv. to a 4th Round Pick (25) # 121 overall.

Why did Ted Thompson let this slide by him 'not just one but two times'?

Take or 'Fool' me once 'shame on you'...Take or (fool) me twice, 'shame on me'.

AND It doesn't end there.... See Ted Thompson's 3rd and 4th Transactions in his 2013 DRAFT. He gets take down two (2) more times. In total in this draft; Ted Thompson is used like a doormat four times. TT gets 'taken downtown' in all four (4) transactions in this draft.

Why... Packer fans?

Analysis: The 49ers went after a pass rusher in the third round, drafting Auburn defensive end Corey Lemonier at No. 88 after trading two picks to the Packers.

NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock likes what Lemonier could provide the Niners: "Fits what they do. Kind of a somewhat conflicted pick in the sense that his talent would be a late-first to late-second round."

************************************************

#1 Transaction:

San Fran 49ers move up in second round

49ers receive: 2013 second-round pick ...No. 55: TE Vance McDonald

Packers receive:

2013 second-round pick ...No. 61: RB Eddie Lacy

2013 sixth-round pick...No. 173: (Traded to the Broncos)

Trade up Fr. #61 >>> #55 San Fran owes Packers 58 Pts. Trade Value

Note #173 = 22.2 Pts

San Fran 49ers took Ted Thompson down for 35.8 Pts in this transaction. That's worth a value equivalent to a mid 5th Rd. pick. They won't get away with that 'trick' again.... or will they?

See Transaction #2 with San Fran 49ers where Packers GM Ted Thompson gets taken again, by The San Fran 49ers.

Analysis: The 49ers moved up six picks in the second round by shipping two 2013 selections to the Packers.

Rice's Vance McDonald is considered one of the top tight ends available in the draft.

[3irty1]

I now see why you're upset Woody but if I wouldn't put so much stock in the trade value chart. The rookie pay scale changes it and this draft was particularly light at the top which throws the values way off.

One thing you should check out is this: http://www.sportsplusnumbers.com/2013/04/nfl-draft-trade-machine.html

The draft trade machine weights every pick by the average of the production of all the players to ever be picked there (with some smoothing). Ultimately though, Ted can justify any trade he wants because value is always dependent of his evaluation of the player(s) available at the given slot. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

[Fritz]

On that score, I'd say TT may have hit on Johnson. His measureable are great - while I hate TT's constant bum mining, and the numbers do not support his approach, he may have found a player in Johnson.

All of the other spitballs will likely be cut along the way as we approach the season, but I'd try to find a way to keep this guy on the roster and develop him.

TT's constant bum mining?

Are you slighting his rumored sexual preferences here, Wist?

[wist43]

TT's constant bum mining?

Are you slighting his rumored sexual preferences here, Wist?

You're a sick man Fritz :lol:

[Bretsky]

Perhaps TT shared your concern expressed last week that Williams' thin legs would lead to injury. Every GM in the league passed on him 4 times. There must be some reason why a guy thought at one time to be a late 1st/early 2nd pick was still available in the 5th round.

Didn't Williams get taken at the end of round 3 by the Ravens ????

[Joemailman]

Didn't Williams get taken at the end of round 3 by the Ravens ????

You're right. I thought they were talking about Jesse Williams, but looking back through the thread, I guess they were talking about Brandon Williams. Jesse Williams was drafted early in the 5th by Seattle.

[Bretsky]

You're right. I thought they were talking about Jesse Williams, but looking back through the thread, I guess they were talking about Brandon Williams. Jesse Williams was drafted early in the 5th by Seattle.

Brandon Williams was a pretty heavily pimped player in PR and Wist lead the group. In fact, had they taken Brandon Williams in round three instead of trading down, I think Wist might have actually been a fan of the draft.

Let's say we lose the OT and one of the 5th round picks (preferrably not the Upside WR).

If Brandon Williams turns out to be a pro bowler wist will have eternity to remind us

[3irty1]

Brandon Williams was a pretty heavily pimped player in PR and Wist lead the group. In fact, had they taken Brandon Williams in round three instead of trading down, I think Wist might have actually been a fan of the draft.

Let's say we lose the OT and one of the 5th round picks (preferrably not the Upside WR).

If Brandon Williams turns out to be a pro bowler wist will have eternity to remind us

Not eternity, just until the establishment pulls the trigger on the collapse of capitalist society and seizes control of all the internet service for brainwashing the populace with glee and soccer. Then he'll only be able to remind those of us with CB radios.

[woodbuck27]

TT's constant bum mining?

Are you slighting his rumored sexual preferences here, Wist?

Whhhhhaaaaattt !!? What 'you' sayin'?

[woodbuck27]

Brandon Williams was a pretty heavily pimped player in PR and Wist lead the group. In fact, had they taken Brandon Williams in round three instead of trading down, I think Wist might have actually been a fan of the draft.

Let's say we lose the OT and one of the 5th round picks (preferrably not the Upside WR).

If Brandon Williams turns out to be a pro bowler wist will have eternity to remind us

Is the air finally purer?

It takes forever to get this stuff through to some here.

If you really wanted to go right to it. Any Packerrat with a desire to do so could post a better draft than what some of us endured and saw from TT this past weekend. Well certainly that... after Thursday night.

Why are there so many Home Sucking Ted Thomson apologists here when that's just simply passe? hey Y'all nobody hates Ted Thompson at least that I know of at Packerrats.

Generally we LOVE Ted Thompson. Well ... I like Ted thompson. I'm just a regular guy. (-:

Ted Thompson' job is very secure Packerrats.

Ted thompson does very well...but he's far from perfect. When I see him still on video talking to the media. I genuinely feel sorry for him.

He's not at all well scripted. He says things that are meaningless.

Examples:

"Well yea! He looks like a... WR ...LB....(fill in the blank)." TT

What Ted !? What in blue blazes does that mean....Ted? He looks like ..... ? That's not .... comforting Ted.

Bottom line.... Ted Thompson is still no less uncomfortable in front of a camera as he ever was. How well can he operate under duress? Like in a draft? I think that TT is a nice man. I see that he really cares. Great qualities there but that man under the gun !!?

Thus we see TT lose 4 trades in this draft.

Count them ONE-TWO-THREE-FOUR.

Give me a break if I get annoyed. Especially when two of those muggings came at the hand of the fricken' San Fran 49ers. I hate that !!

"Ohh I couldn't comment on that" TT

What Ted? Why you cannot get fair value back in a draft trade? That and the fricken team that's kicking your butt in this off season. The team that won the draft according to too many. Thanks for helping out the San Fran 49ers Ted.

And this classic Ted Thompson response to a simple question:

"Now ...that's classified." TT

What Ted?? This is the Green Bay Packers, not the fricken' CIA Ted.

Ohh Boy ! :smile:

[woodbuck27]

Brandon Williams was a pretty heavily pimped player in PR and Wist lead the group. In fact, had they taken Brandon Williams in round three instead of trading down, I think Wist might have actually been a fan of the draft.

Let's say we lose the OT and one of the 5th round picks (preferrably not the Upside WR).

If Brandon Williams turns out to be a pro bowler wist will have eternity to remind us
Second response to your post:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1424923-2013-nfl-draft-missouri-southern-defensive-tackle-brandon-williams

Didn't DT/NT Brandon Williams go to 'a defensive minded' team?

Well ...Yes he did:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1621026-nfl-draft-2013-results-biggest-winners-losers-of-the-nfl-draft#/articles/1621026-nfl-draft-2013-results-biggest-winners-losers-of-the-nfl-draft/page/2

The Green Bay Packers don't have need .... on defense. (sarcasm intended) for emphasis. Everything is hunky dory on our DL. NOPE !! That line is secure for years to come. NOPE !! Arn't five players on that DL in a final contract year this season?

I know that TT made two picks for the DL but one of them wasn't named Sylvester Williams or Brandon Williams.

Some of us here at Packerrats do our homework too. Some of us here at Packerrats just don't come home and check the Packer game score on the late news. Some of us 'live' Packers.

GO PACK GO !

[woodbuck27]

I now see why you're upset Woody but if I wouldn't put so much stock in the trade value chart. The rookie pay scale changes it and this draft was particularly light at the top which throws the values way off.

One thing you should check out is this: http://www.sportsplusnumbers.com/2013/04/nfl-draft-trade-machine.html

The draft trade machine weights every pick by the average of the production of all the players to ever be picked there (with some smoothing). Ultimately though, Ted can justify any trade he wants because value is always dependent of his evaluation of the player(s) available at the given slot. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

As far as I could determine researching the current standard for making a trade. The old standard is still used. What's it called? The Jerry Jones Chart or something like that. This one:

http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php

Now I just looked at that LINK you provided and Wooooaaahhh !

To understand that a GM would need to attend a 3 credit course from a credited university to understand it all. Can you really buy into two GM's in their respective War Rooms and going over all that 'Higher Mathematics' to seal the deal in trading up or down in the draft?

I have to take some time to study that and thank God I have a minor in Mathematics and taught math or I'd never have the courage to.

TT has difficulty discussing the particulars of a certain draft pick. He's not going to handle wheeling and dealing with that information in his mug... well...at all.

I think that Ted is just so pumped to trade down for more picks that he will take anything in that trade to just get there. That seems perfectly realistic analyzing..... TT's...Ohh Boy...here it goes again!!!...

last ........ Ohh Nooooo....here it goes again...... last

Ok ... there ... just a second....ooops....there....Uuuummm NO !! .... OK....Wait ... There....I've stopped shaking.

Last Draft

I just had a flashback. The agony of it.

[KYPack]

As far as I could determine researching the current standard for making a trade. The old standard is still used. What's it called? The Jerry Jones Chart or something like that. This one:

http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php

Now I just looked at that LINK you provided and Wooooaaahhh !

To understand that a GM would need to attend a 3 credit course from a credited university to understand it all. Can you really buy into two GM's in their respective War Rooms and going over all that 'Higher Mathematics' to seal the deal in trading up or down in the draft?

I have to take some time to study that and thank God I have a minor in Mathematics and taught math or I'd never have the courage to.

TT has difficulty discussing the particulars of a certain draft pick. He's not going to handle wheeling and dealing with that information in his mug... well...at all.

I think that Ted is just so pumped to trade down for more picks that he will take anything in that trade to just get there. That seems perfectly realistic analyzing..... TT's...Ohh Boy...here it goes again!!!...

last ........ Ohh Nooooo....here it goes again...... last

Ok ... there ... just a second....ooops....there....Uuuummm NO !! .... OK....Wait ... There....I've stopped shaking.

Last Draft

I just had a flashback. The agony of it.

Woody, Jimmy Johnson put that chart together 21 years ago to evaluate draft value. I thought that's what you referring to when you said you "checked the draft value's". That chart has been out-moded and not used for for quite a few years.

The NFL has changed a lot since Jimmah and Jerrah used that table of values There have been newer tables developed, some teams only use their own tables as rough guides, and some teams don't use 'em at all.

Using that old table, you figure that TT "lost" that trade with SF in the second round. TT traded down, got the RB he wanted, and picked up a 6th rnd pick. You use the ancient table and somehow think TT got snookered in the deal. You are dead nuts wrong in your assumptions.

But, you could end up right if Lacy busts. That is possible, Lacy is a good hand, but he also a plodder, he has a stomping running style that might not translate into a talented NFL running back. That's the crap shoot the NFL draft is.

TT creates his draft board based on the evaluations of his scouts. He then follows his scouts advice and makes his draft picks by religiously following his board. That is a radical departure from his predecessor. Shermy thought he knew better than his scouts and barred them from the draft room. I'll take TT and his methods. This regime uncovered two UDFA's who were out of position in college, we moved them to their NFL jobs and wound up with two NFL players out of the deal. Other teams scouting departments aren't uncovering guys like Dezman Moses and Sam Shields, the two guys I'm talking about. They are the football talent evaluating professionals, not rabid fans like you. You are so close to the forest, you can't see the trees (or the ground, maybe).

I believe in TT and his regime. It's good we have dedicated fans, but I'm glad the fans aren't drafting our talent for us. The fans are clueless in that regard.

[Gunakor]

Using that old table, you figure that TT "lost" that trade with SF in the second round. TT traded down, got the RB he wanted, and picked up a 6th rnd pick. You use the ancient table and somehow think TT got snookered in the deal. You are dead nuts wrong in your assumptions.

But, you could end up right if Lacy busts. That is possible, Lacy is a good hand, but he also a plodder, he has a stomping running style that might not translate into a talented NFL running back. That's the crap shoot the NFL draft is.

The 6th we got from San Fransisco here was the one used to trade up and get Franklin. So if Lacy busts and Franklin doesn't then we still win this trade IMO.

[rbaloha1]

TT does not believe in charts -- trusts scouting dept.

[pbmax]

I am pretty sure the Packers have the personnel on hand to do a draft chart calculation during trade discussions. I doubt that Ted has to have a calculator on standby to do it himself.

[rbaloha1]

If you listen to TT's post draft audio the draft chart issue was brought up -- He talked about draft charts as just "numbers" and its players and trusting scouting departments that he utilizes.

TT is not a moneyball guy.

[pbmax]

If you listen to TT's post draft audio the draft chart issue was brought up -- He talked about draft charts as just "numbers" and its players and trusting scouting departments that he utilizes.

TT is not a moneyball guy.

The trade value chart is not moneyball. And he said they tended to use the old chart this year, despite the arrival of new charts after the new CBA because not every team was using the new chart. To bridge the differences he trusted the scouts.

[pbmax]

JSOnline Draft Bio of Barrington


Weighed 246 at the combine and ran the 40 in 4.85. Was 235 at pro day and clocked 4.73. Vertical jump of 37, broad jump of 10-2 and 22 reps on the bench. Arms were 32¼, hands were 10¼.

I think 4.85 would be the low end of his combine number as the official number is 4.91. Pro Day is a better number but I suspect is still low for an ILB.

[rbaloha1]

The trade value chart is not moneyball. And he said they tended to use the old chart this year, despite the arrival of new charts after the new CBA because not every team was using the new chart. To bridge the differences he trusted the scouts.

The point is TT is not a stats guy -- thank goodness.

With TT its all about grinding and scouting.

[woodbuck27]

Woody, Jimmy Johnson put that chart together 21 years ago to evaluate draft value. I thought that's what you referring to when you said you "checked the draft value's". That chart has been out-moded and not used for for quite a few years.

The NFL has changed a lot since Jimmah and Jerrah used that table of values There have been newer tables developed, some teams only use their own tables as rough guides, and some teams don't use 'em at all.

Using that old table, you figure that TT "lost" that trade with SF in the second round. TT traded down, got the RB he wanted, and picked up a 6th rnd pick. You use the ancient table and somehow think TT got snookered in the deal. You are dead nuts wrong in your assumptions.

But, you could end up right if Lacy busts. That is possible, Lacy is a good hand, but he also a plodder, he has a stomping running style that might not translate into a talented NFL running back. That's the crap shoot the NFL draft is.

TT creates his draft board based on the evaluations of his scouts. He then follows his scouts advice and makes his draft picks by religiously following his board. That is a radical departure from his predecessor. Shermy thought he knew better than his scouts and barred them from the draft room. I'll take TT and his methods. This regime uncovered two UDFA's who were out of position in college, we moved them to their NFL jobs and wound up with two NFL players out of the deal. Other teams scouting departments aren't uncovering guys like Dezman Moses and Sam Shields, the two guys I'm talking about. They are the football talent evaluating professionals, not rabid fans like you. You are so close to the forest, you can't see the trees (or the ground, maybe).

I believe in TT and his regime. It's good we have dedicated fans, but I'm glad the fans aren't drafting our talent for us. The fans are clueless in that regard.

Hi KY:

I have nothing in me that would point at Ted thompson and his draft team and picking Eddie Lacy. That was a strong value pick. After that he's a wait and see, that I hope works out awesomely for the Green Bay Packers. I hope that every pick works out, 'even' as they are. I'm a realist...several won't.

As to TT and his draft team. I refuse to debate this as I'm still too stubborn to it. I'm just now accepting reality. TT's picks and the good and bad or ugly parts of that.

Ted Thompson's draft last week. Try to hold back on the insults Ted Thompson apologists.

1>>> 2 >>>3. Your the 2.

TT's draft:

I could pick five /six posters at Packerrats that I would trust to better TT's last draft. Some of them might even be 'Homers' (-;.

I'll expand that to seven/eight posters....and there are more here that armed with some real pre-draft preperation and half a clue what was going to happen. Would direct a better draft than Ted Thompson did last week. Having the good fortune to get such an incredible value 'trading up' >>> RB Johnathan Franklin, saved his reputation.

I'm reminded of Detective Joe Friday now...'The facts mame ... just stick to the facts'.

I don't mean to be in anyone's face but what's the scoop here;

His use of Rd. 4 Pick #122 on OT J. C. Tretter !? An intriguing choice, when he had so many other options at that specific position...or OT. I'm still assessing that pick but I'm guessing that he missed the likes of :

OT's Oday Abushi; Reid Fragel; David Quessenberry; Ricky Wagner and well ... add Jordan Mills.

We're none of these prospects on Ted Thompson's board?

His pick of OLB Nate Palmer the 593/2444 on DraftScouts.Com >>> A VERY Likely BUST as a WR on our roster but ***maybe? ST's.

His pic at Rd. 7 #232 would have secured the best option of the three that he added to our off season. It's unlikely any other NFL draft team was considering WR Dorsey. BUST or ***.

Ted Thompson could have done much better in that draft. I believe that Ted Thompson would be the first to inform you of that same fact if he was your close friend. I cannot imagine that it's all in Ted Thompson's draftboard. Is that logical..... or ..... an excuse?

The Draft Board for any team is a dynamic process within the DRAFT, that changes somehow with every pick. A fricken' computer with the most elaborate software and programming has a tough job keeping up with it. Ted Thompson is a long ways from any computer and I'm grateful for that in some regards.

Sorry KY... I know you love TT as so many do here but all the same. Ted Thompson's draft in 2013 went south...... in Round Three. It went >>> to bad >>> from there

TT had options there that he dramatically ignored. This stuff that I'm reading here. The re-direct jazz...that he traded down twice out of Round Three ...to target prospects on the OL as some want to claim... ignores all the options that he had at Rd. 4 Pick # 122 to adress that specific option.

Nice try...that's not going to work. I do my homework.


The real matter of this post response:
That's all moot in terms of his three (3) trades down and one (1) trade up.

" Using that old table, you figure that TT "lost" that trade with SF in the second round. TT traded down, got the RB he wanted, and picked up a 6th rnd pick. You use the ancient table and somehow think TT got snookered in the deal. You are dead nuts wrong in your assumptions.

But, you could end up right if Lacy busts. That is possible, Lacy is a good hand, but he also a plodder, he has a stomping running style that might not translate into a talented NFL running back. That's the crap shoot the NFL draft is." KYP

Wrong ...dead wrong isn't my concern. It's ... 'What in HELL is going on around this place?'

Me being dead or nuts or deadnuts...hahahahaha... that's all moot I assure you/any member here. :-?

I don't even have to be right because now it's simply 'a wait and see' thing.

To the specific issue and 'Draft Trade Value'.

I've been looking for something on this so called 'NEW' Draft Trading Value 'Chart. All I found on the internet was reference to the chart I've always used. I got something from 3irty1 last night that I have to study. It's a LINK to some 'NEW' method to value draft trades (etc.?). I simply need a day to focus on it. It's a tad complicated looking at it... first glance.

I'll try to find (again) and post a LINK to an article by ** a Texas Media source; that focus's on how the San Fran 49ers (again). Taking the 'the Dallas Cowboys' down in this same draft. Specifically in the case of them swapping picks in round one. The 49ers were pissing their pants, coveting FS Eric Reid to groom in their system. They had so much going in that they could afford 'a reach'.

Just one of their picks that if it works out. Will make the San Fran 49ers SET/STRONG for year's.

It's sickening just how well the 49ers did in this draft, grading out at the top. With the real evaluation, three years down the road that I'll see that with the 'Luck Of The Irish'.

The writer of ** that article, specifically refers to the 'Old' Trade Value Chart.

All reference's that I'm finding refer to the same chart.

In that instance, the claim ... 'Jerry Jones and the Boys' lost 80 Value Points in the exchange with the 49ers. 80 Trade Value Points stripped from 'the Boys'. I felt badly for Jerry Jones....a total switch. Packer fans hate the Bears Vikings and Lions. I dislike the 49ers and the Boys because of Favre/Rodgers Era Green Bay Packer embarassments at their hands. What have those NFCN teams ever really done to the Packers in that same recent era but little to nothing. I know it's supposed to be some Green Bay Packer 'Time Aged Honoured Tradition' to hate NFCN teams. I simply can't find that energy to get there.

I don't want Packerrats to imagine I'm trying to dishonour Ted Thompson. I have lots of problems getting a realistic grip on that man. It's simply that and I'm on record at Packerrats explaining that. It's a blessing that I possess a sense of humour. Ted Thompson has always perplexed me. I can own that without disliking, moreso hating, the man I believe I see in Ted Thompson.

I'm looking at different things now trying to get a better understanding of what TT was doing last Saturday April 27,2013. Damn... it was getting so bad from where I was sitting. That I thought that day was his April's Fools Day :?:. When it was all over or after Pick RD. 7 #232. I fell just short of a carnal screem. I was pissed off to a degree I've seldom reached in the last 2 decades.

I was a long way from this:

:cow: I was experiencing a WTF moment.

[run pMc]

Wasn't it last year that people were talking about how TT got the better of Belichick using the draft chart? Meh, it's all giveth and taketh to me.
Nobody likes to get ripped off though. I can't say for sure they could've done better -- maybe TT wanted to trade down but only SF was willing, and SEA reacted as a result of that trade. I don't think it happens in a vacuum.
All that said, I think the draft certainly wasn't star-studded but probably solid.

It's not where you're drafted, it's what you do after that.

[woodbuck27]

Wasn't it last year that people were talking about how TT got the better of Belichick using the draft chart? Meh, it's all giveth and taketh to me.
Nobody likes to get ripped off though. I can't say for sure they could've done better -- maybe TT wanted to trade down but only SF was willing, and SEA reacted as a result of that trade. I don't think it happens in a vacuum.
All that said, I think the draft certainly wasn't star-studded but probably solid.

It's not where you're drafted, it's what you do after that.

Taking away 'all the specifics' ...YOUR absolutey correct.

Eventually I hope we all learn from this>>>accept that learning and I know we'll all arrive at the same place >>> Green Bay Packers.

GO PACK GO !

[woodbuck27]

If you listen to TT's post draft audio the draft chart issue was brought up -- He talked about draft charts as just "numbers" and its players and trusting scouting departments that he utilizes.

TT is not a moneyball guy.

Moneyball >>> What a decent movie. I went to the theater to see it twice. I'm a bit into numbers though and not so much shapes. Especially when that's in reference to men. :shock:

The draft chart issue !

The inside there >>> That wasn't deemed classified by Ted. LOL.

Ted Thompson's >>> a hoot.

I like him. He's very human >>> far - far >>> from 'the Genious'.

PACKERS !

[pbmax]

I could pick five /six posters at Packerrats that I would trust to better TT's last draft. Some of them might even be 'Homers' (-;.

I'll expand that to seven/eight posters....and there are more here that armed with some real pre-draft preperation and half a clue what was going to happen. Would direct a better draft than Ted Thompson did last week. Having the good fortune to get such an incredible value 'trading up' >>> RB Johnathan Franklin, saved his reputation.

Woodbuck, these men are paid professionals who watch these college prospects 320 days out of the year, if not more. Full time, not part time. They have game tape, not You Tube highlights, access to practices and coaches. Can interview players and their family and conduct background checks. Mike Trgovac knew he liked Boyd from college tape a year ago. And that is the coach, who does do this only part time. Was anyone here aware of him, and watching his game tape last year? A junior in college?

They also have access to professional coaches to answer questions about scheme, technique and responsibility.

You cannot seriously think that any poster here is ready to do a better job than any NFL GM.

There is a difference between being smart enough to do something and being trained and ready to do something.

[3irty1]

Woodbuck, these men are paid professionals who watch these college prospects 320 days out of the year, if not more. Full time, not part time. They have game tape, not You Tube highlights, access to practices and coaches. Can interview players and their family and conduct background checks. Mike Trgovac knew he liked Boyd from college tape a year ago. And that is the coach, who does do this only part time. Was anyone here aware of him, and watching his game tape last year? A junior in college?

They also have access to professional coaches to answer questions about scheme, technique and responsibility.

You cannot seriously think that any poster here is ready to do a better job than any NFL GM.

There is a difference between being smart enough to do something and being trained and ready to do something.

I'm actually pretty sure most internet forums could have run the Raiders better than Al Davis.

[rbaloha1]

Woodbuck, these men are paid professionals who watch these college prospects 320 days out of the year, if not more. Full time, not part time. They have game tape, not You Tube highlights, access to practices and coaches. Can interview players and their family and conduct background checks. Mike Trgovac knew he liked Boyd from college tape a year ago. And that is the coach, who does do this only part time. Was anyone here aware of him, and watching his game tape last year? A junior in college?

They also have access to professional coaches to answer questions about scheme, technique and responsibility.

You cannot seriously think that any poster here is ready to do a better job than any NFL GM.

There is a difference between being smart enough to do something and being trained and ready to do something.

Plus he possessed the Packer desired length.

[KYPack]

Woody, I'll get into a reply here, but also will reference some of this in the "Trades" thread.

Since the draft thread began, I really was puzzled. It started in round 2. Thompson got the top rated running back AND a 6 for moving down 6 spots. That's a great deal right there, now. You and Wist were in tears over the whole deal. I get the idea with Wist. He's the great contrarian, everything TT and MM do it is bad, etc, etc. That's fine, every argument needs a good contrarian.

Your own concerns were a little harder to figure out. You idea was SF is the evil empire and they have fleeced the shit out of TT (& of course, the GBP).

My own response was, "is this guy shittin' me, that's a great trade". Then, I began to realize to evaluate the trade, you are referring the olde & ancient Jimmy Johnson chart from 20 - 25 years ago. Even on that chart, that trade is even. NFL teams don't use the Jimmy Johnson (JJ) chart anymore. They abandoned it for various reasons. It doesn't factor in future picks, or vet player trades. Also, it hasn't kept up with salary structures that have changed, mainly around the changing rookie levels, both up and down.

NFL teams use several different trade charts. 1. JJ enhanced Some teams revved up the JJ chart and made it work in the new times.
2. PR Pro Football Reference has a modern chart which allows for future picks and other smoothing factors
3. HSA You are a math minor? You'd love this trade chart which has more wrinkles than an old moose. Developed by some morons at Harvard Business school who wanted to make $ by fucking around with draft pick value charts. Some observers think the HSA is the superior draft charting system.
4. Custom You know Belichick has some kind of voodoo math chart that nobody else has, rumored, but not confirmed.

The chart you tout is old and not used anymore. But that ain't what the internet says. If you google the charts, all the responses are about the old, original JJ chart. Why? Young ass writers don't know any better, so they just copy what's out there & don't update themselves or their readers.

The real reason that you think Thompson had a terrible draft and got snookered by the 9ers & fins is....

TT did not draft to YOUR board.

You worked your ass off analyzing the draft and made your own board.

When TT did his own thing, you were outraged and yelped about every move that didn't meet your board.

Your board is just that, your board. TT's board is put together by the whole GBP staff, one that has a proven professional track record.

Your board is just your opinion.

Woody, you've stated that PackerRat posters could do better than TT. I don't think a whole village of PR posters would be able to do the job of a junior guy on TT's staff. It's a professional gig, one that requires knowledge and training for years to become effective.

All of us (out here) are just fans. Good, knowledgeable fans, but not able to put together the draft board T's staff has done.

[rbaloha1]

Woodbuck, these men are paid professionals who watch these college prospects 320 days out of the year, if not more. Full time, not part time. They have game tape, not You Tube highlights, access to practices and coaches. Can interview players and their family and conduct background checks. Mike Trgovac knew he liked Boyd from college tape a year ago. And that is the coach, who does do this only part time. Was anyone here aware of him, and watching his game tape last year? A junior in college?

They also have access to professional coaches to answer questions about scheme, technique and responsibility.

You cannot seriously think that any poster here is ready to do a better job than any NFL GM.

There is a difference between being smart enough to do something and being trained and ready to do something.

everyone needs to adhere to this.

[Bretsky]

I'm actually pretty sure most internet forums could have run the Raiders better than Al Davis.

DITTO FOR THE COWBOYS IN EARLY ROUNDS UNDER JJ

[woodbuck27]

Woodbuck, these men are paid professionals who watch these college prospects 320 days out of the year, if not more. Full time, not part time. They have game tape, not You Tube highlights, access to practices and coaches. Can interview players and their family and conduct background checks. Mike Trgovac knew he liked Boyd from college tape a year ago. And that is the coach, who does do this only part time. Was anyone here aware of him, and watching his game tape last year? A junior in college?

They also have access to professional coaches to answer questions about scheme, technique and responsibility.

You cannot seriously think that any poster here is ready to do a better job than any NFL GM.

There is a difference between being smart enough to do something and being trained and ready to do something.

pb.... I appreciate your loyalty and undieing support for Ted Thompson and his staff.

I don't mean to give anyone here a shocking heart attack or otherwise cause any anxiety or other illness .... To cause any poster to rise up in some silly temper tantrum or otherwise tirade; but Yes.

I seriously believe that members of Packerrats could better the draft Class that TT and his Draft Team procured for the Green Bay Packers in this draft.

I most certainly believe we could do that but to get down to the brass tacks of that. It would be a foolish waste of time to commit one's time to working an exercise to do so as such would be moot.

We might do that 'only' as a fun exercise to see how it turns out entering the 2016 season. The Packerrats MOCK DRAFT 2013 Vs TT and his Draft Staff's results last week. We could archive our results if individula posters elected such exercise.

I would suggest one rule.That whomever enters a Mock can 'only use' our original eight (8) picks. #26,#55;#88;#122.#159;#167 Compensatory;#193;#232.

GO PACKERS!

[pbmax]

I would be up to re-mock the draft. I will take two teams if need be and stick it out until Round 7.

[woodbuck27]

Woody, I'll get into a reply here, but also will reference some of this in the "Trades" thread.

Since the draft thread began, I really was puzzled. It started in round 2. Thompson got the top rated running back AND a 6 for moving down 6 spots. That's a great deal right there, now. You and Wist were in tears over the whole deal. I get the idea with Wist. He's the great contrarian, everything TT and MM do it is bad, etc, etc. That's fine, every argument needs a good contrarian.

Your own concerns were a little harder to figure out. You idea was SF is the evil empire and they have fleeced the shit out of TT (& of course, the GBP).

My own response was, "is this guy shittin' me, that's a great trade". Then, I began to realize to evaluate the trade, you are referring the olde & ancient Jimmy Johnson chart from 20 - 25 years ago. Even on that chart, that trade is even. NFL teams don't use the Jimmy Johnson (JJ) chart anymore. They abandoned it for various reasons. It doesn't factor in future picks, or vet player trades. Also, it hasn't kept up with salary structures that have changed, mainly around the changing rookie levels, both up and down.

NFL teams use several different trade charts. 1. JJ enhanced Some teams revved up the JJ chart and made it work in the new times.
2. PR Pro Football Reference has a modern chart which allows for future picks and other smoothing factors
3. HSA You are a math minor? You'd love this trade chart which has more wrinkles than an old moose. Developed by some morons at Harvard Business school who wanted to make $ by fucking around with draft pick value charts. Some observers think the HSA is the superior draft charting system.
4. Custom You know Belichick has some kind of voodoo math chart that nobody else has, rumored, but not confirmed.

The chart you tout is old and not used anymore. But that ain't what the internet says. If you google the charts, all the responses are about the old, original JJ chart. Why? Young ass writers don't know any better, so they just copy what's out there & don't update themselves or their readers.

The real reason that you think Thompson had a terrible draft and got snookered by the 9ers & fins is....

TT did not draft to YOUR board.

You worked your ass off analyzing the draft and made your own board.

When TT did his own thing, you were outraged and yelped about every move that didn't meet your board.

Your board is just that, your board. TT's board is put together by the whole GBP staff, one that has a proven professional track record.

Your board is just your opinion.

Woody, you've stated that PackerRat posters could do better than TT. I don't think a whole village of PR posters would be able to do the job of a junior guy on TT's staff. It's a professional gig, one that requires knowledge and training for years to become effective.

All of us (out here) are just fans. Good, knowledgeable fans, but not able to put together the draft board T's staff has done.

Ky I would like to focus on the portion of confusion and The NFL Draft Trade Value Chart.

Since I've postede with you fellas I've used only this chart:

http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php

http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php

DRAFTTEK...Could this site be wrong KY? I simply want to determine some standard of measurement. I always thought I (we) had one.The above have been used in the past and are still used for Team Draft trades. ** See References of proof of that.

http://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp

A prominant Draft Site and NFL Stat's Site ... PRO FOOTBALL Reference.Com:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/draft_trade_value.htm

** A Reference to where the JJ Chart was used in this draft in a Round One deal where the San Fran 49ers fleeced the Boys trading up to the Boys #18 slot to draft FS Eric Reid, LSU. Here the San Fran 49ers took The Cowboys for an 80 point differential trade value.

It's my observation based on all I know about fair trade value and that's available to me on the internet that TT got taken four times in four transactions. At least TT didn't get taken downtown as badly as the Cowboys.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dallas-cowboys/headlines/20130426-cowboys-have-their-own-trade-value-chart-but-it-doesn-t-matter-in-draft.ece

** Another Reference and fun to read:

2013 NFL Draft:

The Demise Of The Trade Value Chart Is Greatly Exaggerated

By One.Cool.Customer ... Mar. 23, 2013, 5:00 PM

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/4/11/4174302/nfl-draft-trade-value-chart-jimmy-johnson

So there you go. That's all I've ever use. That's as far as I know what posters here have used when we discussed past drafts. What I post here says definitively that it's the current standard.

I'm 'only' recently aware that there are some other offerings. None of which in my research have hit the Big time. The actual NFL DRAFT. I hope that we can determine WTH is going on at Packerats and this matter. It shouldn't be confusing. If we all just go with the flow...it never is confusing. It also gets real chatty, mundane or boring.

I'm positive that at Packerrasts we have the knowledge and talent to discover the TRUTH in this issue.

KY...Your remarks about TT and his draft team. I appreciate your response and candor. Please read my post to pb that accounts for my 'still existing' stance on that.

Let's all keep the faith as a bottom line.

GO PACK GO !

[Patler]

Just curious, how close in point values does a trade have to be to be "fair"?
Is it a percentage of the highest pick traded, or what?

[Fritz]

Woody, Jimmy Johnson put that chart together 21 years ago to evaluate draft value. I thought that's what you referring to when you said you "checked the draft value's". That chart has been out-moded and not used for for quite a few years.

The NFL has changed a lot since Jimmah and Jerrah used that table of values There have been newer tables developed, some teams only use their own tables as rough guides, and some teams don't use 'em at all.

Using that old table, you figure that TT "lost" that trade with SF in the second round. TT traded down, got the RB he wanted, and picked up a 6th rnd pick. You use the ancient table and somehow think TT got snookered in the deal. You are dead nuts wrong in your assumptions.

But, you could end up right if Lacy busts. That is possible, Lacy is a good hand, but he also a plodder, he has a stomping running style that might not translate into a talented NFL running back. That's the crap shoot the NFL draft is.

TT creates his draft board based on the evaluations of his scouts. He then follows his scouts advice and makes his draft picks by religiously following his board. That is a radical departure from his predecessor. Shermy thought he knew better than his scouts and barred them from the draft room. I'll take TT and his methods. This regime uncovered two UDFA's who were out of position in college, we moved them to their NFL jobs and wound up with two NFL players out of the deal. Other teams scouting departments aren't uncovering guys like Dezman Moses and Sam Shields, the two guys I'm talking about. They are the football talent evaluating professionals, not rabid fans like you. You are so close to the forest, you can't see the trees (or the ground, maybe).

I believe in TT and his regime. It's good we have dedicated fans, but I'm glad the fans aren't drafting our talent for us. The fans are clueless in that regard.

Here, here. One of the differences I think maybe people don't see is the way fans view players versus the way NFL teams, particularly Thompson, sees them. Because of the fact that NFL GM's have a wealth of information (way more than we do, as KY reminds us) about a great number of players (way more than we do), they see players more like - for lack of a better term - cattle. We think that in the third round the Packers just have to take that one guy we've researched and feel is going to be just what the team needs. Thompson and other GM's see that guy in some tier, with a whole bunch of other guys, at different positions. And he sees a lot more tiers than we do. Where we see that one guy, or maybe three guys, that Thompson has to pick right there, Thompson sees that there are, according to his scouts and his own calculations, about thirty guys in roughly the same talent category. So he doesn't fall in love with a particular guy, like we do. He can move back 28 picks, get another draft choice later, and still get one of those thirty guys. In the meantime, we're outraged, because we worked so hard and we think we know.

And we don't know better than Thompson and his scouts. No fan does, unless he was a fan of the old Oakland Raiders, or the Detroit Lions in the Matt Millen days.

And even then, as to Woody's claim that seven or eight rat posters could run the draft better - that's if the rat poster doesn't poop his pants and panic. It's a lot more - it has to be a lot more - stressful and pressure-packed than we think it is as we kibbitz on the internet and drink our beers.

[Patler]

Here is a new trade value chart proposed by Walter Football:

http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftology321.php

[Patler]

Has the study from Harvard been linked here? If not, here it is:

http://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2011/11/30/how-to-value-nfl-draft-picks/

[Patler]

This is another very interesting one, put together from an actual evaluation of player performances from 30 years of drafts. The interesting thing, I think, is that it shows that after the middle of the first round, the values of picks start to group together, with the groups getting larger the lower you go.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=527

[Patler]

Another proposal from Football Perspective, revised in 2012:

http://www.footballperspective.com/draft-value-chart/

[pbmax]

That Draft Tek chart Woody links to is interesting. It rearranges the numbers to include compensatory picks, though the comp picks have no trade value because they cannot be traded.

That means for every comp pick prior to a regular draft pick, the trade value slides higher, relative to its overall rank. That value is only consistent if you consider the players taken with regular, not compensatory selections.

Therefore its value is overstated later in the draft.

[3irty1]

I would be up to re-mock the draft. I will take two teams if need be and stick it out until Round 7.

Sounds fun.

[pbmax]

One other thought about the Draft Tek chart. Its clearly based on the original JJ chart. I think the recent CBA and tighter controls on rookie deals actually makes this chart more effective than it was during the days of $40 million guaranteed to the top spot.

But it was also created before comp picks and unless I am mistaken, it utterly fails to account for them, esp as the number varies from year to year.

Have any of the newer charts taken this into account?

[3irty1]

One other thought about the Draft Tek chart. Its clearly based on the original JJ chart. I think the recent CBA and tighter controls on rookie deals actually makes this chart more effective than it was during the days of $40 million guaranteed to the top spot.

But it was also created before comp picks and unless I am mistaken, it utterly fails to account for them, esp as the number varies from year to year.

Have any of the newer charts taken this into account?

While this is very very big its probably still a minor component compared to the variation of top spots in each draft. This years first pick is worth SOOOO much worse than last years or next years where you could get Andrew Luck or Jadeveon Clowney. The pick is only as good as the player it can get.

[woodbuck27]

I would be up to re-mock the draft. I will take two teams if need be and stick it out until Round 7.

Hi pb:

One of my last thoughts before retiring last night:

If we decide to do this 'exercise'. An exercise not to prove anything in particular. Not projected with any intent to annoy/upset/offend any Packerrat that might be sensative to this matter. I believe this exercise merely looks at the 'No Trade Option' Vs Transactions in an NFL DRAFT. It's really just that simple.

Yet... as the person I am. I'm an Irish Canadian. I feel this need to elicit a precautionary note:

Doing this exercise won't likely be anything akin to voodoo. I don't want to bring on 'the jinx factor' or any bad karma.

If Ted Thompson and his Draft Team nail this draft we'll all be cheering. No serious Packer fan wish's for Ted Thompson to fall on his ass. Only 'clowns' point a finger at the likes of Wist43 and I or any other member of Packerrats who would sincerely participate in this, 'merely proposed' exercise.

I don't assume that anyone 'in reality' would be available to participate in the exercise pb.

The time factor to do this if we get the go ahead should be as short as possible. The weather is getting very nice now in Canada. A new spring brings new life. Some members of Packerrats have priorities other than Green Bay Packers.

My HABS ( the Montreal Canadians) begin what I hope is a playoff run this evening. After a long off season period of FA and Pre Draft/Draft participation here at my Packer home. I'll give myself a break from all things Green Bay Packers.

The method has to be set up to exclude 'the clown factor'. Those that might attempt to sabotage the exercise in any manner imaginable. The exercise once accepted, should ignore criticisms from posters that won't participate in good faith; otherwise sling darts at it for whatever principle a poster holds.

As to the basics and doing this exercise:

Would we choose to do a 'Seven Round' Mock Draft or

Maybe?, elect to accept the Datone Jones and Eddie Lacy picks in Rounds 1 and 2 respectively. Mock Rds 3-7 using 'only' the original pick ie #88;#122;#159;#167 Compensatory;#193 and #232. That's simply a five round 'six pick' Mock Draft.

That option doesn't cover this in 'a complete' seven round Mock:

Some that desire to participate might feel that 'the Green Bay Packers' had better options @ picks #26 and #55. ie When it came time to use pick #26. I was surprized that TT and his team had two very solid options:

DT Sylvester Williams and DE Datone Jones.

We're currently trying 'to discover' on the question of Draft Trade Value. That's a whole different exercise. One offering... other challenges.

GO PACK GO !

[woodbuck27]

One other thought about the Draft Tek chart. Its clearly based on the original JJ chart. I think the recent CBA and tighter controls on rookie deals actually makes this chart more effective than it was during the days of $40 million guaranteed to the top spot.

But it was also created before comp picks and unless I am mistaken, it utterly fails to account for them, esp as the number varies from year to year.

Have any of the newer charts taken this into account?

This matter of 'Fair' Draft Trade Value RE: NFL DRAFT transactions. Is far more complicated than I believed possible until this week. Old fashioned Guy's use Old fashioned methods. :-)

As I'm seeing it now, and have moreso seen it... each day this week.

It's somewhat of a serious study.

PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

That Draft Tek chart Woody links to is interesting. It rearranges the numbers to include compensatory picks, though the comp picks have no trade value because they cannot be traded.

That means for every comp pick prior to a regular draft pick, the trade value slides higher, relative to its overall rank. That value is only consistent if you consider the players taken with regular, not compensatory selections.

Therefore its value is overstated later in the draft.

I appreciate your brain here at Packerrats pb. :glug:

What a tremendous opportunity for us all to grow as Green Bay and NFL fans.

PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

Another proposal from Football Perspective, revised in 2012:

http://www.footballperspective.com/draft-value-chart/

Thanks for the leads Patler. With those and the one from 3irty1.

I can possibly elect to do a retirement thesis on 'Fairness and Transactions in the NFL DRAFT'.

The question I propose to myself:

Does that seem intriguing/exciting? It surely 'in any case' will not add so much confusion when I see a team take a pounding in any transaction.

Such pounding as I believed I saw TT and the Green Bay Packers take last week. That not just at the hands of the San Francisco 49ers. The Miami Dolphins and Denver Broncos, both did a little bit of 49ers, to Ted Thompson and the Packers too. Based on all I had in terms of Draft Transaction Value.

It's 'the whole thing and this draft' and Ted Thompson's transactions.

Was it possible that he was in such a need to acquire additiional picks!?

He did trade up one time for what I see in review as his 'Crown/Shining Moment' in his draft. To acquire RB Johnathan Franklin.

Yes ... based on my 'justa fan participation and time investment ' in this draft. I loved TT's move right there. I loved it for the value and for the insurance on his pick at Rd. 2 #61 to acquire RB Eddie Lacy. Eddie Lacy's injury history should have been a concern for Ted Thompson. When I look at video of Eddie Lacy I'm impressed. I was more impressed with other RB options in this draft, in consideration of where they might be targeted.

All the same, I have to accept the value in Eddie Lacy Rd. 2 Pick#61.

My jury is still out deliberating on that 'whole' issue of:

Did TT give up too much in terms of value Vs acquiring picks.

I don't seek stubborn ....rather RIGHT-TRUTH.... for this: :pack:

GO PACKERS !

[smuggler]

We should definitely do a re-mock. Whoever makes the choices for GB should trade down with every pick until they have all the 7th rounders. >:O

[red]

WHOOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

100 PAGES

my longest packerrats thread EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

longer then the 2008 draft thread (though that had way more views), and crushing other threads like my amazing garbage can thread titled "fuck"

I AM A GOLDEN GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pbmax]

If I sort by Views, I get 2013 draft thread in second after Official Living Legend. 2008 draft thread nowhere in sight.

But more importantly, due to the wonders of non-football fans and Tebow, look how many views the Tebow thread has versus posts.

We should name every thread after Tim and watch the money roll in for Mad.

Or wait ...

[woodbuck27]

Another proposal from Football Perspective, revised in 2012:

http://www.footballperspective.com/draft-value-chart/

It appears to me that if 'the Packers' and 'San Fran 49ers' used the chart in the LINK above that was provided by Patler ...this one. This is 'in fact' my analysis of the two transactions in the 2013 Draft between the Green Bay Packers and San Fran 49ers:

http://www.footballperspective.com/draft-value-chart/

Transaction #1:

Rd. 2 Pick #55 = 9.1 and Rd. 2 Pick #61 = 8.4 or a Trade Diff. Value (TDV) = 0.7

Then San Fran owes the Packers Pick #204 ... a Compensatory Pick owned by KC.

To make the deal the 49ers would have to offer 'the Packers their best available pick = Rd. 6 Pick #173

BINGO !

*** http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap1000000161121/article/2013-nfl-draft-trade-tracker-details-of-all-the-moves

Packers traded up Fr. Rd. 5 Pick #146 Rec'd Fr. the Dolphins in their transaction to acquire the Packers Rd. 3 Pick #93; coupled with Rd. 6 Pick #173 For RB Johnathan Franklin Rd. 4 Pick # 125

Denver Broncos receive: 2013 Rd. 5 Pick #146 (From Dolphins through Packers) and Pick: DE Quanterus Smith 6'5" 250; Western Kentucky.....GRADE 75.7

and 2013 Rd. 6 Pick #173 (From Eagles through Browns, 49ers and Packers) and Pick: OT Vinston Painter OT 6'4" 306; Virginia Tech ... Grade ... 51.0



Now...... let's try to prove/support that, by looking at the second transaction in this draft between The Packers and San Fran 49ers. That transaction was in Rd. 3 @ Pick #88.

Looking at Transaction #2:

We traded down to Rd. 3 Pick #93 FR. Rd. 3 Pick #88.

The (TVD) Trade Value Difference using this Chart:

Rd. 3 Pick #88 = 6.1 ... and... Rd. 3 Pick # 93 = 5.7

A Trade Diff. Value (TDF) >>> back to the Packers of 0.4

0.4 = Pick #214 and that was a Rd. 7 Pick owned by the Seattle Seahawks.

The actual TDV >>> back to the Packers Fr. San Fran 49ers was a 7th Rd. Pick #216.

Rd. 7 Pick #216 Packers (From Titans through 49ers) was used by the Packers to pick WR Charles Johnson, 6'2" 215 lbs; Fr. Grand Valley State ....... Grade = 50.4


Conclusion:

This analysis is based on the TVC LINK at the top of this post.

It's now my conclusion. That Packers GM Ted Thompson and the Green Bay Packers received Fair Trade Value (FTV) back >>> Fr. the San Francisco 49ers in both of their transactions in the 2013 NFL Draft.

Note:

By looking at the other two transactions or the Packers with the Miami Dolphins and finally the Denver Broncos. Anyone on this forum could 'if desired', analyze if the Green Bay Packers received FTV Fr. these trading partners. I've provided *** the LINK *** for all of the transactions in this 2013 NFL Draft within this post.

GO PACK GO !