Official 2019 Draft Thread

[wist43]

Dalton Risner, OL, KSU
Terrill Hanks, OLB, New Mexico State
Darrell Henderson, RB, Memphis

[RashanGary]

Wist, if we got the linebacker, White, at 12 and then one of those two fast and instinctive safeties at number 30.... I know edge rusher is probably our greatest need, but damn, we could get some rush out of mike Daniels and Kenny Clark and if the middle of our back 7 became that much faster and better...... maybe that would be a nice fix. Hell, throw in a pass rush specialist at 44 and who knows, maybe we’d have a good defense.

‘‘Tis the season to dream. Obviously we’d have to hit on all three picks but that would be a pretty cool setup. If you have a really good ILB and a really good safety, it makes it hard on QBs to attack the middle of the field. And and pass rush up the gut makes it that much tougher on QBs, obviously.

[wist43]

Wist, if we got the linebacker, White, at 12 and then one of those two fast and instinctive safeties at number 30.... I know edge rusher is probably our greatest need, but damn, we could get some rush out of mike Daniels and Kenny Clark and if the middle of our back 7 became that much faster and better...... maybe that would be a nice fix. Hell, throw in a pass rush specialist at 44 and who knows, maybe we’d have a good defense.

‘‘Tis the season to dream. Obviously we’d have to hit on all three picks but that would be a pretty cool setup. If you have a really good ILB and a really good safety, it makes it hard on QBs to attack the middle of the field. And and pass rush up the gut makes it that much tougher on QBs, obviously.

I'm not worried about safety... I wanted the guy last year b/c I thought he was special. He went to San Diego I think.

My main concern, as always, is the front 7.

I definitely have White at the top of my wishlist. If he's gone, Polite.

But at picks 30 and 44, i think one of those 2 is definitely going to be an OT/OL. Risner is the type of player the Packers tend to like; and, unlike Spriggs, I think he can actually play.

If we can sign a FA at any one of our holes, it narrows down who we can target in the draft. Lot of good WR's in that lower 1st, high 2nd rd range.

I think this is a draft that is strong in areas we have needs... let's hope Gute can hit some home runs.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Like any other position, you gotta be careful. Fine line between Harrell and Clark, both first round DL.

Harrell gets unfair maligned, he would have been more than serviceable as a monster in the middle had Rock Gullickson not decided he was lazy for eating his mother's fried chicken.

Are you trying to be racist or something? lol

Harrell was fat and injury-prone at Tennessee. For some strange reason, Todd fell in love with Harrell. Just further proof of Todd's incompetence.

[pbmax]

Are you trying to be racist or something? lol

Harrell was fat and injury-prone at Tennessee. For some strange reason, Todd fell in love with Harrell. Just further proof of Todd's incompetence.

One major injury and another that he played through is not the definition of injury prone. And he had a completely different issue that derailed him as a pro.

I have no doubt the fried chicken line is racist, but I believe that rumor started with Gullickson*, who anonymously put it out there that Harrell had gone home for 6 weeks and gotten so out of shape that he injured himself when workouts started. Patler broke down how many days Harrell could have been on his own and it was comically short. Rock clearly wasn't being careful with his charges. That was the beginning of the end of Rock Gullickson in GB.

*If that wasn't Gullickson's story, I withdraw the type of food comment entirely.

[Joemailman]

Watched the Voch Lombardi evaluation on Greg Little... has all the tools, just needs to be coached out of some bad habits.

Did drop him down to a possible pick at #44 as opposed to #30, and at the same time moved Marquis Brown up to #30 consideration.

The knock on Brown is his size... but I can see all kinds of uses for him - jet sweeps, slot, motion... things we never saw from M3.

That said, there are a lot of good sized receivers in that late 1st - 2nd round range. Butler at 6'6" is intriguing.

Brown will miss the Combine because he had Lisfranc surgery last month. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001018221/article/oklahoma-wr-marquise-brown-foot-to-miss-combine

Kiper had Packers taking Brown at #12 in his latest mock draft. Stay tuned.

[Fritz]

Brown will miss the Combine because he had Lisfranc surgery last month. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001018221/article/oklahoma-wr-marquise-brown-foot-to-miss-combine

Kiper had Packers taking Brown at #12 in his latest mock draft. Stay tuned.

He's not a marquise player anyway.

[Deputy Nutz]

do the Packers go corner for three years in a row?

[Fritz]

do the Packers go corner for three years in a row?

What?? Are you Nutz??

[Deputy Nutz]

Alexander has the making of a stud, but unfortunately I can't predict what will happen with King. He is soft and this leads to him being injury prone and simply guys that miss half a season can't be game changers. Jackson had a sub par rookie season and he might have to move to safety or a hybrid type of secondary player. I get that you don't want to go corner three drafts in a row, but best available is still best available.

Packers can pick a great prospect across the D-line with either of their two first round picks. It isn't a dire need but it is a need none the less.

Edge rushers have not impressed me in this draft and I would fear more bust than boom out of the half dozen or so guys that would be available when the Packers pick. There is top end talent, but it will be gone quickly.

OL is decent not spectacular, it is a clear need for the Packers especially along the right side of their line. I am in agreement with Thompson that you don't need to spend high draft picks on interior offensive linemen, but if you want spectacular book end tackles you might have to look higher in the draft. I think this draft has potential for hitting on a right tackle late in the first round.

No to running back, obviously.

No to receiver as the Packers have kept all three from last year and they all show promise. I would be more comfortable with signing a veteran in free agency.

Quarterback would be interesting. Rodgers seems like he could play until 40, but when is it too early to start grooming the next guy. I can't see it this season, but two years expect the Packers to eye up several QBs early in the draft.

[wist43]

Brown will miss the Combine because he had Lisfranc surgery last month. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001018221/article/oklahoma-wr-marquise-brown-foot-to-miss-combine

Kiper had Packers taking Brown at #12 in his latest mock draft. Stay tuned.

This draft, more than any other in recent memory, is all over the place with rankings and projections. I've seen White as high as 4, and as low as 24. I saw one that has M.Brown at 5.

There are a lot of good WR prospects in that 2nd round range. Metcalf, Brown, Harry, et al.

I think Risner is the type of guy the Packers always covet - which is unusual, b/c I like him too :)

I think there's a good chance we end up with Risner somewhere, i.e. trade up or down.

[Joemailman]

do the Packers go corner for three years in a row?

Can't rule that out, especially if they plan on moving Josh Jackson to Safety.

[pbmax]

I think a lot depends on what happens to Breeland. His is prime age and if he signs a 2-4 year deal (his Carolina FA deal was for 3/24) I think they put CB further down the list.

Has anyone heard about his possible destinations?

I don't think the plan will be for Tony Brown to start again, so I agree they will add some pieces. I kinda like some of the depth at CB, but the front line guys were hurt too much.

[Joemailman]

I think a lot depends on what happens to Breeland. His is prime age and if he signs a 2-4 year deal (his Carolina FA deal was for 3/24) I think they put CB further down the list.

Has anyone heard about his possible destinations?

I don't think the plan will be for Tony Brown to start again, so I agree they will add some pieces. I kinda like some of the depth at CB, but the front line guys were hurt too much.

He said in December he'd like to come back to Green Bay. Is he in a position to demand a fairly big multi-year contract like he originally signed last year, or does he need to sign a 1-year "Prove it" contract? If it's a 1 year deal, then I don't think it affects Packers draft plans at all.

[call_me_ishmael]

Have we seen enough of Josh Jackson to conclude that safety or can't play is his future? He put up phat numbers in pre-season, not sure if that was just fluke picks and overall bad coverage or what. I think he needs some more time to marinade before we make a determination one way or another. This next season should be telling.

I know, I know, you can't teach speed, but Al Harris was slow too and he was a stud.

Speaking of Al Harris, 12 years ago he signed a teeny tiny extension by today's standards for a stud pro bowl corner.


On February 13, 2007 it was announced that Harris signed a two-year contract extension with the Packers. The deal was an add-on to the five-year, $18.7 million extension that Harris signed in 2004, a contract that included about $7 million in guarantees. That extension still had three seasons remaining on it, through 2009. Financial details of the new extension were not yet available, but Harris told the Wisconsin State Journal that it included two roster bonuses totaling $4.5 million, along with some Pro Bowl incentives.[2]

3.75/yr average. Today it's be 13-15/yr easy! Probably more since he was 2nd team all-pro when he signed that extension. That's like a 3-4x increase in 12 years. Crazy!!

Also, I am still not totally convinced this is the same man lol.

https://i.redd.it/bwb23gvowfd01.png

[pbmax]

He said in December he'd like to come back to Green Bay. Is he in a position to demand a fairly big multi-year contract like he originally signed last year, or does he need to sign a 1-year "Prove it" contract? If it's a 1 year deal, then I don't think it affects Packers draft plans at all.

Yeah, that would be why the length of the deal is important. Packers have some dough to spend back there and depending on what they do at safety, they might have some money for Breeland.

Are we sure Tramontana returns as starter next year?

[pbmax]

That House extension was the one Wilde reported on that EVERYONE on this board said was the media making stuff up. Then Al actually missed some of the offseason (don't think it was camp) and sure enough, he got some extra dough.

EDIT: My memory may not be clear here. If he signed it on Feb 13, that would be before offseason program, no?

[Fritz]

On his chat Dougherty pointed out that Belichek's personnel genius lies in his willingness to move on from players. So, let's play "WWBBD"?

Cut Perry
Cut Bulaga
Cut Cobb
Cut Graham
Let Kendricks and Lewis walk
Cut Kizer
Cut Jake Ryan
Move Jackson to safety
But keep Crosby, because BB likes old kickers.

[Smidgeon]

On his chat Dougherty pointed out that Belichek's personnel genius lies in his willingness to move on from players. So, let's play "WWBBD"?

Cut Perry
Cut Bulaga
Cut Cobb
Cut Graham
Let Kendricks and Lewis walk
Cut Kizer
Cut Jake Ryan
Move Jackson to safety
But keep Crosby, because BB likes old kickers.

I think he'd keep Bulaga, utilize Cobb differently, and keep Ryan and Kizer (for another year). The rest I agree.

[pbmax]

That House extension was the one Wilde reported on that EVERYONE on this board said was the media making stuff up. Then Al actually missed some of the offseason (don't think it was camp) and sure enough, he got some extra dough.

EDIT: My memory may not be clear here. If he signed it on Feb 13, that would be before offseason program, no?

This is a lie. Because I meant to type Harris not House.

[Smidgeon]

The more I read, the more I want Hockenson. Maybe even at 12, hoping an edge would fall. If he's as good as advertised and if M4 can use him, he's a gamechanger.

Of course, I'm not an expert on talent or value either.

[red]

The more I read, the more I want Hockenson. Maybe even at 12, hoping an edge would fall. If he's as good as advertised and if M4 can use him, he's a gamechanger.

Of course, I'm not an expert on talent or value either.

no, high first round TE's almost never pan out

[wist43]

The more I read, the more I want Hockenson. Maybe even at 12, hoping an edge would fall. If he's as good as advertised and if M4 can use him, he's a gamechanger.

Of course, I'm not an expert on talent or value either.

Oh, hell no, lol...

Watch the tape... he's okay, but I wouldn't put him anywhere near the first round. 4th round maybe.

[pbmax]

TEs are a big question in this offense. McVay doesn't use them a ton. Shanahan Sr did, Jr. seems to as well, will be curious where M4 falls.

He and the offense suffered greatly last year when the Titans lost Delanie Walker.

[Joemailman]

TEs are a big question in this offense. McVay doesn't use them a ton. Shanahan Sr did, Jr. seems to as well, will be curious where M4 falls.

He and the offense suffered greatly last year when the Titans lost Delanie Walker.

FWIW, Walker had 4 catches for 52 yards on 7 targets in Game 1 before he suffered a season-ending injury. If the Packers are bringing back Graham, I have to believe he'll be a featured part of the passing offense. You don't make Jimmy Graham the highest paid TE in the NFL for his blocking.

[Fritz]

But if the Packers keep him as the highest-paid tight end in football, it will be despite a season in which he did not get open often as he used to, did not bring down contested balls, and did not, as usual block much.

So what are you keeping him as the highest-paid tight end in football for?

I think he has been an uber-dud, and would like to see him cut. I don't see some big rebound season coming; I see a guy who's lost his physical gifts.

[Joemailman]

But if the Packers keep him as the highest-paid tight end in football, it will be despite a season in which he did not get open often as he used to, did not bring down contested balls, and did not, as usual block much.

So what are you keeping him as the highest-paid tight end in football for?

I think he has been an uber-dud, and would like to see him cut. I don't see some big rebound season coming; I see a guy who's lost his physical gifts.

I share your concerns as to whether he's worth the money. However, he was 9th in the NFL in receiving yards among TE's despite playong several games with a broken thumb. So, he's still one of the better receiving TE's in the NFL. I could see the possibility of him doing better in a different offensive scheme. My biggest concern is that his knee seemed to limit his ability to jump which takes away from his effectiveness in the endzone.

[Deputy Nutz]

Any team needs to be careful with picking a TE early in the draft. Two years ago there were a couple of dynamic first round talents that were taken, I believe one from Alabama and one from Miami. I could look for their names but I don't care enough. If the Packers were clean across the offensive line and didn't have obvious holes on defense that can't seem to filled over the past 5 years TE just doesn't feel all that important right now. Second round maybe, 4th round sure.

[RashanGary]

Would you rather have a David bahktiari quality OT or a kyler fackrell quality edge rusher with the 12th pick?

[wist43]

Would you rather have a David bahktiari quality OT or a kyler fackrell quality edge rusher with the 12th pick?

Don't ever use the word "quality" in reference to Fackrell. It's embarrassing for everyone. :x

[wist43]

Just started looking at Safeties.

Out of Adderley, Rapp, and Abhram - I like Adderley by far the most. Maybe he's there at #44??

[Deputy Nutz]

Would you rather have a David bahktiari quality OT or a kyler fackrell quality edge rusher with the 12th pick?

Obviously you have to go OT if those are your options. 12 is a tough spot for this particular draft. Using your extra first round draft pick doesn't exactly help you. it might get you 2 or 3 spots.

You simply might end up taking the highest rated player on your board, regardless if that is an offensive lineman(need) or a corner. Reaching for an edge rusher is never a good policy.

[pbmax]

You simply might end up taking the highest rated player on your board, regardless if that is an offensive lineman(need) or a corner. Reaching for an edge rusher is never a good policy.

Agree with this. Other than QB, overcoming that mistake is brutal.

[RashanGary]

Obviously you have to go OT if those are your options. 12 is a tough spot for this particular draft. Using your extra first round draft pick doesn't exactly help you. it might get you 2 or 3 spots.

You simply might end up taking the highest rated player on your board, regardless if that is an offensive lineman(need) or a corner. Reaching for an edge rusher is never a good policy.

I sorta see it similarly. That’s why I brought it up. I keep coming up with dream scenarios where the defense is fixed, but then I need to be open to the possibility that maybe the guy who brings the most impact to the field isn’t at a position I want most. So I sort of start looking at a lot of realistic options

[RashanGary]

Just started looking at Safeties.

Out of Adderley, Rapp, and Abhram - I like Adderley by far the most. Maybe he's there at #44??


Would be cool to get White, Polite and then Adderly. Then get a lucky healthy year out of King and maybe we’d have a defense.

[Deputy Nutz]

So film break down has started. I watched two whole games from these three guys: Josh Allen OLB Kentucky, Clelin Ferrell Edge, Clemson, and Devin White LB, LSU.

Allen
Fim: Mississippi, and Penn St.
First take: He seems to lack instincts. He is a good athlete but seems to be either standing in open space or stutter stepping. His best attributes are his timed blitzes. Once he gets moving forward he is a hard man to stop. He played the zone read terribly against Penn St. Not as big of an issue in the NFL but it leads me to think that his instincts and coachability might not be great. I think he will test out great in Indy, but his film didn't do much for me.

Ferrell
Film: Texas A&M, Boston College
First Take: I absolutely love this kid. He is a hybrid defensive end/linebacker in the true sense of the word. As an end in a 3 point stance his first step is amazing, he seems to always use his hands and get extension on the tackle or TE. He uses an array of pass rush moves unlike any other film I have watched. He has the mobility to stand up in a two point stance and drop into coverage, and what I love is that he lined up all over the field and was able to apply pressure whether he was blitzing or coming out of a three point stance. Ferrell's instincts are very good he understands how to play team defense. He is not selfish. A lot of guys will undercut blocks and give up contain, Not Ferrell he will continue to battle and stretch the play. Ferrell does need to get stronger in the lower half of his body, there were several times when he tried to redirect off the tackles block and he just could get his feet planted.

White
Film: Alabama, Miami
First Take: The guy is a tackler and he can run. He doesn't over run plays and almost slow plays to a fault. He is assignment sound and plays good team defense. What I guess bothers me the most is that he makes a lot of tackles four yards down field or more. Watching his film against Alabama you would not think that he is one of the better defensive players in the country. I think his instincts are just OK. I would think about maybe taking advantage of his athleticism and playing him off the edge. I know I have given high praise before, in fact just today but maybe I watched his highlight tape too many times.

[pbmax]

How do you maintain draft capital and still engage in FA? Apparently its by trading.

http://www.footballperspective.com/the-patriots-are-smarter-than-everyone/

[Fritz]

So film break down has started. I watched two whole games from these three guys: Josh Allen OLB Kentucky, Clelin Ferrell Edge, Clemson, and Devin White LB, LSU.

Allen
Fim: Mississippi, and Penn St.
First take: He seems to lack instincts. He is a good athlete but seems to be either standing in open space or stutter stepping. His best attributes are his timed blitzes. Once he gets moving forward he is a hard man to stop. He played the zone read terribly against Penn St. Not as big of an issue in the NFL but it leads me to think that his instincts and coachability might not be great. I think he will test out great in Indy, but his film didn't do much for me.

Ferrell
Film: Texas A&M, Boston College
First Take: I absolutely love this kid. He is a hybrid defensive end/linebacker in the true sense of the word. As an end in a 3 point stance his first step is amazing, he seems to always use his hands and get extension on the tackle or TE. He uses an array of pass rush moves unlike any other film I have watched. He has the mobility to stand up in a two point stance and drop into coverage, and what I love is that he lined up all over the field and was able to apply pressure whether he was blitzing or coming out of a three point stance. Ferrell's instincts are very good he understands how to play team defense. He is not selfish. A lot of guys will undercut blocks and give up contain, Not Ferrell he will continue to battle and stretch the play. Ferrell does need to get stronger in the lower half of his body, there were several times when he tried to redirect off the tackles block and he just could get his feet planted.

White
Film: Alabama, Miami
First Take: The guy is a tackler and he can run. He doesn't over run plays and almost slow plays to a fault. He is assignment sound and plays good team defense. What I guess bothers me the most is that he makes a lot of tackles four yards down field or more. Watching his film against Alabama you would not think that he is one of the better defensive players in the country. I think his instincts are just OK. I would think about maybe taking advantage of his athleticism and playing him off the edge. I know I have given high praise before, in fact just today but maybe I watched his highlight tape too many times.


I do not watch the way you guys do, so I must defer to your opinions; I will only add that I did see Josh Allen twice, and while the guy is lightning quick, I was not impressed with his ability to get off of blocks - I agree with your assessment. I think he'll test well but not be that good in the NFL.

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 2 of Film breakdown. I am sort of concentrating on Edge rushers at the moment.

Montez Sweat DE, Mississippi St.
Films: Ole' Miss, Iowa
First Take: I am not overly impressed with his athleticism. He looks awkward when he runs. He isn't extremely fluid or flexible. What I did like about him as a pass rusher is that he does a really good job of using his hands and beating the offensive lineman in the battle of quicker use of the hands and arms. I would like him disengage quicker. I didn't not see him play as a stand up OLB or force player. I am not sure if he can play it. The other thing I notice is that he looks skinny especially in the lower half of the body. Needs to add some strength and size. The last thing I will say is that he needs to play with lower pad level. His hat is always higher than the offensive lineman.

Jachai Polite OLB, Florida
Films: Michigan, LSU
First Take: Just not big enough or strong enough to win one on one battles with the tackle. Polite cannot get engaged with the offensive tackle, he gets easily controlled. He has to run around or jump to the inside to be effective. He is quick and when you gets off the ball he has created opportunity to disrupt the passer. I would rather work with a guy that can add strength than one that needs to get fast. Polite is one of those quick twitch athletes that has a very good first few steps. I would say that he needs to use his hands better and stop just relying on his speed to get him to the quarterback. He wants to finesse it.

Rashan Gary DE, Michigan
Films: Ohio St, Penn St
First Take: Rashan Gary has been the highest rated prospect since he has been a 16 year old kid. He is explosive, big, fast, he has all the labels you want out of one of the better athletes in this draft, but the production is a concern for me in the two films I watched. He seems to play the run better than the pass. He is never out of position and he is just very smooth to the point you don't really know if he is giving 100% effort. He plays mostly as a down lineman but I believe he has the ability to stand up. He is a better athlete than Nick Perry, but I don't just bring up Perry's name without reason. You might be misusing Gary if you play him at OLB. It might not be a good fit. He has all the talent in the world to be a JJ Watt type player but he might be more of a Jadeveon Clowney at the next level.

[Joemailman]

Hey Wist! A mock draft that has the Packers talking White! :glug::wave:http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001019166/article/peter-schrager-2019-nfl-mock-draft-10-kyler-murray-goes-no-1

[call_me_ishmael]

This is the funniest damn thing I've seen in at least 3-4 days lol.

https://twitter.com/PackerRanter/status/1101491251814129664

[call_me_ishmael]

Rashan Gary DE, Michigan
Films: Ohio St, Penn St
First Take: Rashan Gary has been the highest rated prospect since he has been a 16 year old kid. He is explosive, big, fast, he has all the labels you want out of one of the better athletes in this draft, but the production is a concern for me in the two films I watched. He seems to play the run better than the pass. He is never out of position and he is just very smooth to the point you don't really know if he is giving 100% effort. He plays mostly as a down lineman but I believe he has the ability to stand up. He is a better athlete than Nick Perry, but I don't just bring up Perry's name without reason. You might be misusing Gary if you play him at OLB. It might not be a good fit. He has all the talent in the world to be a JJ Watt type player but he might be more of a Jadeveon Clowney at the next level.

It seems like this is really common with the special kids who are anointed from a young age. I would take him in a heart beat though if you could Clowney production out of him. I would be shocked if he lasts outside the top 5 though. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he's the best player in the draft, a total bust, or somewhere in the middle. It's tough to project with guys like this who don't always give 100% effort and are spooky talented, far ahead of the rest of the pack.

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 3

oshane ximines Edge, Old Dominion
Films: East Carolina, Marshal

First Take: Guys like this from Mid Major schools are really hard to evaluate. For one the competition and their surrounding players aren't real great. So it is tough to get a read. My first thoughts on this guy is that there is a reason why he is playing at this level. His athleticism just isn't there, his football instincts are at times suspect, and his technique isn't on par with a couple of the other rushers. He certainly looks the part though, he has the right frame, with the right development. He has long arms and he has the height. He struggles with reading the offensive line, particularly the tackle. He is slow off the ball because he can't determine if it is a pass or run, he can only tell when he looks into the backfield which costs him valuable seconds to get to the QB. Late in games when he expected pass his rush game got much better. He plays the run decently well. My issue if he is to be considered a first round talent, you should be able to see consistent first round talents on the field and I just didn't see that out of him on film.

[pbmax]

Doug Farrar @NFL_DougFarrar
Noah Fant met with the Patriots. I don't usually post these things, but damn, he'd be special in that offense.

[pbmax]

Packer Report @PackerReport
Packers might be intent on keeping Graham but they are diving deep into the TE class. Early round, late round.

[Smidgeon]

Fant ran a 4.51.

[bobblehead]

FWIW, Walker had 4 catches for 52 yards on 7 targets in Game 1 before he suffered a season-ending injury. If the Packers are bringing back Graham, I have to believe he'll be a featured part of the passing offense. You don't make Jimmy Graham the highest paid TE in the NFL for his blocking.

Unless your name is fat mike!

[bobblehead]

I share your concerns as to whether he's worth the money. However, he was 9th in the NFL in receiving yards among TE's despite playong several games with a broken thumb. So, he's still one of the better receiving TE's in the NFL. I could see the possibility of him doing better in a different offensive scheme. My biggest concern is that his knee seemed to limit his ability to jump which takes away from his effectiveness in the endzone.

I swear he had half his yards in 2 minute O with back up against our own goal line and down by 2 scores. Those don't even count, the D gives it up.

[call_me_ishmael]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/03/02/kyler-murray-expected-first-overall-nfl-draft-pick-arizona-cardinals

Would you trade 30 for Rosen? What about 44?

Letting Rosen ride the pine for a few years could be very beneficial if you think he has a lot of potential.

[pbmax]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/03/02/kyler-murray-expected-first-overall-nfl-draft-pick-arizona-cardinals

Would you trade 30 for Rosen? What about 44?

Letting Rosen ride the pine for a few years could be very beneficial if you think he has a lot of potential.

I like him, but mostly because of the Alonzo Highsmith volleyball scouting skullduggery. Not sure i like him that much. 2nd round pick does seem a bargain though, if they think he is the next Starr/Dickey/Kiel/Favre/Rodgers.

[wist43]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/03/02/kyler-murray-expected-first-overall-nfl-draft-pick-arizona-cardinals

Would you trade 30 for Rosen? What about 44?

Letting Rosen ride the pine for a few years could be very beneficial if you think he has a lot of potential.


I like him, but mostly because of the Alonzo Highsmith volleyball scouting skullduggery. Not sure i like him that much. 2nd round pick does seem a bargain though, if they think he is the next Starr/Dickey/Kiel/Favre/Rodgers.

No, absolutely not... build now, win now.

[Joemailman]

Aaron Jones interview with Rich Eisen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOLnPoWKqrg&feature=youtu.be

Talk about Combine, Rodgers, Lafleur.

[red]

so

DK metcalf, WR

6'3, 225. 1.9% body fat (is that bad for you?)

and he ran an official 4.33

his season was cut short by a neck injury which should scare the shit out of any packer fan. he was already pegged as the top WR in the draft and a late 1st round pick, but he might have just shot up boards

i wouldn't mind taking him at #12 if his neck checks out. thats randy moss height and speed with waaaaay more muscle

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DzJik00X0AIibDk.jpg:large

[red]

gotta love the peeing dog celebration


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAMuZMgibE4

[call_me_ishmael]

What Ole Miss player has lived up to the hype in recent years? Steroids and booster's paying big bucks for players gives me pause.

Not that everyone isn't doing it, but c'mon, that dude is as doped up as can be to look like that. Plus his three cone was garbage so that gives me pause too. The good news is with Murray and this dude shooting up boards is it means we're gonna have two more good players for to us.

[Joemailman]

What Ole Miss player has lived up to the hype in recent years? Steroids and booster's paying big bucks for players gives me pause.

Not that everyone isn't doing it, but c'mon, that dude is as doped up as can be to look like that. Plus his three cone was garbage so that gives me pause too. The good news is with Murray and this dude shooting up boards is it means we're gonna have two more good players for to us.

Even if his physique isn't a result of anything illegal, I still wonder if he's too bulked up to have the body flexibility to play WR. I'd also like to know more about that neck injury. Route running is reported to be his weakness. However, I've also read that that might be the result of the offense he was operating in. Miss. primarily asks guys to run vertical routes. He's a tough call. Teams will have to decide if he's another Julio Jones, or David Boston. One thing the Packers have shown over the last 15 years is that you can draft really good WR's after the 1st round if you do your homework. If Metcalf slips to #12, there could be a trade-down possibility.

[pbmax]

Is he the guy on the left? Unless that guy is 5' 8", there is not way he weighs 225.

[Joemailman]

Is he the guy on the left? Unless that guy is 5' 8", there is not way he weighs 225.

He's the one on the left I assume.

http://images.performgroup.com/di/library/sporting_news/78/6d/dkmetcalf030219ftr_nwvdzc1xazyx17mgf6ub602uj.png?t =1077467489&w=960&quality=70

[Fritz]

so

DK metcalf, WR

6'3, 225. 1.9% body fat (is that bad for you?)

and he ran an official 4.33

his season was cut short by a neck injury which should scare the shit out of any packer fan. he was already pegged as the top WR in the draft and a late 1st round pick, but he might have just shot up boards

i wouldn't mind taking him at #12 if his neck checks out. thats randy moss height and speed with waaaaay more muscle

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DzJik00X0AIibDk.jpg:large

Dammit, Red, weren't you the one bitching about Thompson drafting Harrell knowing he had an injury history???

[pbmax]

Bit of a thread on DK.

https://twitter.com/smartfootball/status/1101945296081297409?s=21

[run pMc]

DK has had foot and neck injuries end 2 of 3 college seasons. Not a lot of health to go with the production, although you can probably put some of that on the Ole Miss offense. He's not a refined route runner, so why draft him at 12? Boom or bust players get people fired.
I'd rather they pick someone like Terry McLaurin in R5 as Cobb's replacement in the slot. Roids or no, DK is a pretty impressive athlete. So are Kevin King and Nick Perry, and they can't stay healthy either.

[wist43]

I don't want him at 12 either... will be plenty of good WRs further down.

Would prefer a pure slot guy like M.Brown or Isabella.

[call_me_ishmael]

Where’s the college production? He’s not Julio Jones or Cal Johnson. Pass.

Montez Sweat is gonna go #4. #2 is Bosa. #3 is Rashan Gary. Hopefully somebody gets needy and trades up for a QB and DK go top 12. Sounds like Polite bombed interviews so he’s in a free fall. Brian Burns sounds good on paper. Montez Sweat’s numbers are spooky as was his senior bowl. How was his college production?

[Joemailman]

Zach Heilprin
‏

@ZachHeilprin
Follow Follow @ZachHeilprin
More
The full exchange with Florida's Jachai Polite when he was asked about his meeting with the #Packers.

8:22 PM - 2 Ma

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0tOzuLWkAETRQS.png

Actually, he comes across a little better on the video than he does if you just read the quotes. https://twitter.com/ZachHeilprin/status/1102237683450105857 I think he's okay

[red]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0tOzuLWkAETRQS.png

Actually, he comes across a little better on the video than he does if you just read the quotes. https://twitter.com/ZachHeilprin/status/1102237683450105857 I think he's okay

Not a terrible strategy, see what the guy is really made of and see how he reacts when people aren’t just out to kiss your ass

And ask him what happened on his bad plays, see if he can learn from his mistakes

And his reaction seemed fine to me. He wasn’t bitching or crying about it

[Joemailman]

Not a terrible strategy, see what the guy is really made of and see how he reacts when people aren’t just out to kiss your ass

And ask him what happened on his bad plays, see if he can learn from his mistakes

And his reaction seemed fine to me. He wasn’t bitching or crying about it

It's a fairly common strategy. He seemed surprised by it. If that's the case, his agent, assuming he has one, did a lousy job of preparing him for what he would face at the combine.

[pbmax]

It's a fairly common strategy. He seemed surprised by it. If that's the case, his agent, assuming he has one, did a lousy job of preparing him for what he would face at the combine.

Apparently not that common. Dorsey used to be in charge of this, at least the neg questions.

[Joemailman]

Apparently not that common. Dorsey used to be in charge of this, at least the neg questions.

I didn't mean the Packers necessarily. But I seem to remember some controversies over some of the questions asked of the players at the combine. Perhaps those instances were longer ago than I realized.

[pbmax]

Not a terrible strategy, see what the guy is really made of and see how he reacts when people aren’t just out to kiss your ass

And ask him what happened on his bad plays, see if he can learn from his mistakes

And his reaction seemed fine to me. He wasn’t bitching or crying about it

If they kept numbers on this, and I almost guarantee they don't, I would bet it tells them nothing. But they think a certain kind of reaction is definitive.

[pbmax]

I didn't mean the Packers necessarily. But I seem to remember some controversies over some of the questions asked of the players at the combine. Perhaps those instances were longer ago than I realized.

Oh, yeah. The Packers aren't the only ones doing it. Not sure about the film, but definitely the interview. Other scouts/coaches have asked about the moral integrity of girlfriends and mothers and implied the kid was gay. Its a special kind of stupid among these guys.

I bet John Randle would be better at this.

[pbmax]

Holy Jeebus.

Chase Goodbread @ChaseGoodbread
CB Lonnie Johnson of Kentucky said the #Seahawks put him in a staring contest lasting "15, 16 seconds" during his formal interview with them. Said he won. Couldn't recall the name of who he went against.
#NFLCombine

Someone once said the NFL is a multi-billion dollar business run by dopes. They were being unkind to dopes.

[wist43]

If anything it makes me think they're giving him strong consideration.

[red]

If they kept numbers on this, and I almost guarantee they don't, I would bet it tells them nothing. But they think a certain kind of reaction is definitive.

i think the whole damn combine is a giant waste

are they any better at drafting guys now then they were 30 years ago? theres still guys taken at the top of the first that bust out and guys drafted in late rounds that become all pros

i watched about 5 minutes today, listening to the announcers talk about hip socket rotation and all that shit. it doesn't fucking matter, none of it does. every year they come up with some big new way to judge a guy, and it turns out to not mean a damn thing in the end

[wist43]

Where’s the college production? He’s not Julio Jones or Cal Johnson. Pass.

Montez Sweat is gonna go #4. #2 is Bosa. #3 is Rashan Gary. Hopefully somebody gets needy and trades up for a QB and DK go top 12. Sounds like Polite bombed interviews so he’s in a free fall. Brian Burns sounds good on paper. Montez Sweat’s numbers are spooky as was his senior bowl. How was his college production?

Watching the combine today, Sweat killed it. Bosa looked pretty avg, so did Gary.

Burns looked very fluid, very athletic.

White ran a 4.41... looked very good.

[red]

Holy Jeebus.

Chase Goodbread @ChaseGoodbread
CB Lonnie Johnson of Kentucky said the #Seahawks put him in a staring contest lasting "15, 16 seconds" during his formal interview with them. Said he won. Couldn't recall the name of who he went against.
#NFLCombine

Someone once said the NFL is a multi-billion dollar business run by dopes. They were being unkind to dopes.

thats why i laugh when people tell me or some of the rest of us that we can't possibly know as much as the guys running things

[call_me_ishmael]

Combine is hugely important. Of course people are better at drafting today than thirty years ago. Advanced metrics rule the day and you can derive a lot from numbers + interview

[pbmax]

Combine is hugely important. Of course people are better at drafting today than thirty years ago. Advanced metrics rule the day and you can derive a lot from numbers + interview

You should be able to derive a lot from numbers and interviews. But the tidbits that leak out (the bad - which leaks first and the good - which happen after the player is established) don't really lend themselves to the idea that this is designed to be purposeful other than to try to provoke an emotional reaction.

John Dorsey specialized in these kinds of questions and I have never read anything about him that indicated he was following a program or strategy to do anything other than piss someone off. Its the interview equivalent of the Krumerie workout at Wisconsins Pro Day. He is trying to piss the player off by slapping his head and see what he does in reaction.

Belichick at least tries to find out if the kid lives 100% of the time for football.

I doubt they are better now than 20-30 years ago. The big uptick happened in the late 60s and early 70s, when teams finally had enough scouts to actually go find players everywhere. In large part because the Steelers were one of the few scouting HBCUs. Before that they used to scout out of newspapers. Cowboys inspired a huge jump away from that.

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 4

Brian Burns Edge, Florida St.
Films: Virginia Tech, Miami

First Take: He rushes better out of a 4 point or 3 point stance than when he is in a two point. Looks hesitant in a two point stance. He has a really good first step and can beat college tackles based on his get off. He uses his hands well, and he has a good bend when he is trying to cut the corner. If I was drafting him for a 3-4 defense I am not exactly sure how he would fit. His lower body is skinny. Like most of these edge rushers he tends to peak in the backfield instead of recognizing the block of the tackle. He has a good motor and will chase from the backside with decent pursuit. When he gets stoned out of the block he has a hard time going to a secondary move or bull rushing the tackle. Seems like he has a plan before the snap and when it doesn't work he loses. If he gets stronger in the lower half of his body he might improve. Its not always about the initial move to get pressure but when the offensive lineman gets in good position its how the edge rusher works to still get after the QB.

[pbmax]

Day 4

Brian Burns Edge, Florida St.
Films: Virginia Tech, Miami

First Take: He rushes better out of a 4 point or 3 point stance than when he is in a two point. Looks hesitant in a two point stance. He has a really good first step and can beat college tackles based on his get off. He uses his hands well, and he has a good bend when he is trying to cut the corner. If I was drafting him for a 3-4 defense I am not exactly sure how he would fit. His lower body is skinny. Like most of these edge rushers he tends to peak in the backfield instead of recognizing the block of the tackle. He has a good motor and will chase from the backside with decent pursuit. When he gets stoned out of the block he has a hard time going to a secondary move or bull rushing the tackle. Seems like he has a plan before the snap and when it doesn't work he loses. If he gets stronger in the lower half of his body he might improve. Its not always about the initial move to get pressure but when the offensive lineman gets in good position its how the edge rusher works to still get after the QB.

I agree about the importance of the second move.

Not particularly about Burns, but would you rather have a player with counters and a less strong first move, or a guy with one monster technique?

I kinda think the first player will be more effective in the long run yet, as always, the toughest part is the projection of improvement.

[pbmax]

Nutz, can you post the links to the game film you are watching?

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 4

Devin Bush LB, Michigan
Films: Notre Dame, Penn St.
First Take: He is thick. At 5'11" he has the right build for an ILB or WLB in a 4-3. Now that his combine numbers are out, you can see that his speed does translate to the field. He looks good in coverage against RB out of the backfield and understands his zone principles pretty well. He is a decent blitzer especially when he comes off the edge in a disguised blitz scheme. When he comes up the middle I would like to see him use his hands more and become a pass rusher instead of just running into blockers. Bush could play all three downs in the NFL. I think the NFL run game will be easier for him than the college game which is big on the zone read scheme. My opinion an NFL team will draft him to be a starter day 1 of camp.
n

[Deputy Nutz]

I can, otherwise just youtube the players name and then "VS" after it. A bunch of games will come up for those players. They will be highlighted every play.

[Deputy Nutz]

I agree about the importance of the second move.

Not particularly about Burns, but would you rather have a player with counters and a less strong first move, or a guy with one monster technique?

I kinda think the first player will be more effective in the long run yet, as always, the toughest part is the projection of improvement.

One monster move in the NFL won't cut it. Speed rushes won't cut it. A good example is Clay Matthews. I bag on the guy every chance I get, but he does have a quick burst off the snap and a number of his sacks usually come from getting the offensive lineman on his heels. Clay never improved his hands. And when I say hands it means being able to keep your hands active and keep your feet moving towards the QB. A lot of guys I watch do all this hand work against coaches but I never see their feet moving. Pass rusher have to keep the offensive linemen in a state of panic. They have to be guessing, is he going to bull rush, dip to the outside, cut inside? All rushers do these moves, but it is the technique and sets ups that give offensive linemen fits.

Its a chess game, and lets face it a good pass rusher loses at least 75% of the battles. If a guy got ten pressures on 40 pass attempts that would be an outstanding day for that defensive player.

[pbmax]

One monster move in the NFL won't cut it. Speed rushes won't cut it. A good example is Clay Matthews. I bag on the guy every chance I get, but he does have a quick burst off the snap and a number of his sacks usually come from getting the offensive lineman on his heels. Clay never improved his hands. And when I say hands it means being able to keep your hands active and keep your feet moving towards the QB. A lot of guys I watch do all this hand work against coaches but I never see their feet moving. Pass rusher have to keep the offensive linemen in a state of panic. They have to be guessing, is he going to bull rush, dip to the outside, cut inside? All rushers do these moves, but it is the technique and sets ups that give offensive linemen fits.

Its a chess game, and lets face it a good pass rusher loses at least 75% of the battles. If a guy got ten pressures on 40 pass attempts that would be an outstanding day for that defensive player.

Neither Perry nor Matthews have great hands in pass rush. Perry has heavy hands and his bull rush (when healthy) is admirable, but he doesn't get off it quickly.

Matthews had a better bull rush than his body type should allow, but same situation. He only gets free if the QB has to move and Matthews can surprise the tackle.

If the Packers had one guy who constantly forced the QB to adjust his drop, Perry and Matthews would be double digit sacks again on secondary cleanup*. But they don't have that guy anywhere. Daniels and Clark are to infrequently getting that kind of penetration. I was hoping Muhammed would do it, but his days as a feared pass rush are probably gone.


*This is where a speed outside guy can help. If Melvin Ingram or Bosa beat the tackle wide and can force the QB to step up, it gets three other rushers closer to him and puts their blockers in jeopardy.

[bobblehead]

What Ole Miss player has lived up to the hype in recent years? Steroids and booster's paying big bucks for players gives me pause.

Not that everyone isn't doing it, but c'mon, that dude is as doped up as can be to look like that. Plus his three cone was garbage so that gives me pause too. The good news is with Murray and this dude shooting up boards is it means we're gonna have two more good players for to us.

Just a theory, but it could be HgH used to help him heal from his neck injury. I'm not terrified of that. But my how things change, from TT is a fucking moron for drafting Harrell to hey, how about a guy who might go the route of Nick Collins at #12!!!

[bobblehead]

Holy Jeebus.

Chase Goodbread @ChaseGoodbread
CB Lonnie Johnson of Kentucky said the #Seahawks put him in a staring contest lasting "15, 16 seconds" during his formal interview with them. Said he won. Couldn't recall the name of who he went against.
#NFLCombine

Someone once said the NFL is a multi-billion dollar business run by dopes. They were being unkind to dopes.

Its a horrible strategy as people with high character and moral fiber who know who they are don't like being attacked anymore than crybabies. Unless you truly know the motive of the guy attacking, its impossible not to be offended. He could be seeing if you will stand up for yourself in which case going back at them is correct. He could be seeing if you are easily annoyed in which case its the wrong approach. In any event it tells you very little.

[Deputy Nutz]

Neither Perry nor Matthews have great hands in pass rush. Perry has heavy hands and his bull rush (when healthy) is admirable, but he doesn't get off it quickly.

Matthews had a better bull rush than his body type should allow, but same situation. He only gets free if the QB has to move and Matthews can surprise the tackle.

If the Packers had one guy who constantly forced the QB to adjust his drop, Perry and Matthews would be double digit sacks again on secondary cleanup*. But they don't have that guy anywhere. Daniels and Clark are to infrequently getting that kind of penetration. I was hoping Muhammed would do it, but his days as a feared pass rush are probably gone.


*This is where a speed outside guy can help. If Melvin Ingram or Bosa beat the tackle wide and can force the QB to step up, it gets three other rushers closer to him and puts their blockers in jeopardy.

You just posted the stat in another thread that Daniels was 3rd or 4th in the league with QB pressures, and now you say that he wasn't consistent enough.

[Fritz]

Day 4

Devin Bush LB, Michigan
Films: Notre Dame, Penn St.
First Take: He is thick. At 5'11" he has the right build for an ILB or WLB in a 4-3. Now that his combine numbers are out, you can see that his speed does translate to the field. He looks good in coverage against RB out of the backfield and understands his zone principles pretty well. He is a decent blitzer especially when he comes off the edge in a disguised blitz scheme. When he comes up the middle I would like to see him use his hands more and become a pass rusher instead of just running into blockers. Bush could play all three downs in the NFL. I think the NFL run game will be easier for him than the college game which is big on the zone read scheme. My opinion an NFL team will draft him to be a starter day 1 of camp.
n

From what I watched of Michigan this year, I think this guy will be a big player in the NFL. He is strong and aggressive and pretty quick, too. His biggest problem was with dumb penalties - late hits and the like. But the guy is not only physically gifted, he's a football player, and a mean one. I'd be happy if the Packers drafted him - unlike Rashan Gary, who I think was more hype than production.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I guess Polite also bailed on the rest of the Combine, claiming a hammy injury which has many claiming bullshit, as it is more felt he's just taking his ball and going home. I guess he put on bad weight as well per the scouts. He also stated he doesn't watch film of himself. Overall, a horrible job interview.

[pbmax]

You just posted the stat in another thread that Daniels was 3rd or 4th in the league with QB pressures, and now you say that he wasn't consistent enough.

Packers had 44 sacks which was eighth in the League but only 4 above average. The pass rush did not seem even average to me, but its possibly the bad pass D in the backend is fooling me.

Daniels with a 14% pressure rate might be as good as you can expect without a first round All Pro. It just looks like its not enough, or you need two of them at that rate.

Or perhaps my theory is full of holes and the edges are just lower than mediocre.

[pbmax]

From what I watched of Michigan this year, I think this guy will be a big player in the NFL. He is strong and aggressive and pretty quick, too. His biggest problem was with dumb penalties - late hits and the like. But the guy is not only physically gifted, he's a football player, and a mean one. I'd be happy if the Packers drafted him - unlike Rashan Gary, who I think was more hype than production.

Twitter was having a war over this guy over the weekend. Tape eaters suggested he had problems covering sideline to sideline.

Twitter scouts were gleeful over his speed tests.

What say you Fritz, is he functionally fast enough to get wide during a play?

[pbmax]

Rock Ya-Sin

Matt Miller @nfldraftscout
4.51 official for Rock Ya-Sin. Think we need to get him in that late 1st convo.

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
Ian Rapoport Retweeted Matt Miller
Talked to a GM last night who was most interested in his wrestling background, a two-time state champ. Sounds like he interviewed well, too.


4.51 or 4.52 (have seen both reported) 40 at CB in the first round? He is 6' 2".

[red]

i watched a couple "vs" vids of rashan Gary because i've seen him mocked to us in a couple of places

talk about a guy that looks like a JAG, there doesn't seem to be anything special about him

he sure has hell doesn't play like a guy that can run a 4.58

he doesn't show much strength fora guy that weighs 277

and worst of all, he gave up on a ton of plays way too early when he was within 5 yards of the ball

he's a solid "no" from me

[RashanGary]

Looks like a lot of good players in this draft. Good athletes with production at bigger schools. Just a really good draft year.

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 5

Jaylon Ferguson Edge, Louisiana Tech
Films: FAU, Mississippi St.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcyZBJOR_S8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsAh_iTJD7c

First Take: Like most pass rushers this guy starts out slow in the beginning of games. I like his change of direction, he doesn't just lock on when his first pass rush attempt goes South. He doesn't have the best first step in the draft but it isn't terrible. He does a better job than a lot of the other edge rushers reading blocks instead of just flying up field or looking in the backfield. I don't think he is a first day selection but Ferguson could go any where early on day 2 to the end of day 2. Most of these edge rushers will be off the board on day 1 of the draft, he is the top of the 2nd tier guys. Doesn't seem to get fooled easily, but his down the line pursuit isn't great, his pursuit downfield is boarder line acceptable. Seems like Ferguson was playing with a bad knee in the two games I watched. He uses his hands adequately but doesn't just rely on winning on his hands, Ferguson has good hips and bend.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Day 5

Jaylon Ferguson Edge, Louisiana Tech

First Take: Like most pass rushers this guy starts out slow in the beginning of games. I like his change of direction, he doesn't just lock on when his first pass rush attempt goes South. He doesn't have the best first step in the draft but it isn't terrible. He does a better job than a lot of the other edge rushers reading blocks instead of just flying up field or looking in the backfield. I don't think he is a first day selection but Ferguson could go any where early on day 2 to the end of day 2. Most of these edge rushers will be off the board on day 1 of the draft, he is the top of the 2nd tier guys. Doesn't seem to get fooled easily, but his down the line pursuit isn't great, his pursuit downfield is boarder line acceptable. Seems like Ferguson was playing with a bad knee in the two games I watched. He uses his hands adequately but doesn't just rely on winning on his hands, Ferguson has good hips and bend.

What's his 40? 7.9? Holy fuck, the dude looks like a fucking sloth in the vids you provided. And he's skinny as shit for an OLB. Gonna need to get fatter in the Big Boys League, and that's probably gonna slow him down even more.

I say, let the Queens draft him.

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 5

DeAndre Walker Edge, Georgia
Films: Alabama SEC Champ, Tennessee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv27tg_cIcs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJzR8KAyzVE

First Take: The guy isn't great at anything. He is an undersized edge player either in a 3-4, or 3-4 over front. He simply doesn't have the bulk to play at the line of scrimmage with any consistency. Walker is a high motor kid that runs all over the field. He struggles to hold the edge on power, and gets engulfed on anything that is not a speed rush off the edge. He does have a feel for dual pressure blitzes where he is not always coming off the edge. He can drop into coverage and his technique looks good but his awareness is a little suspect . Walker can do a bit of every thing, but like I said Walker is great at nothing. 2018 was his first year starting for the Bulldogs. He was a highly recruited kid coming out of high school and his athleticism just never materialized on the field. He will probably get drafted higher than he deserves coming from Georgia, and the workout numbers will be decent even though they have yet to be completed by Walker as he didn't work out at the combine. I would think a late 3rd round to 4th round grade on him.

[Deputy Nutz]

What's his 40? 7.9? Holy fuck, the dude looks like a fucking sloth in the vids you provided. And he's skinny as shit for an OLB. Gonna need to get fatter in the Big Boys League, and that's probably gonna slow him down even more.

I say, let the Queens draft him.

He is 6-5 260,

[pbmax]

Packerwire: https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/04/10-potential-packers-draft-picks-who-crushed-the-nfl-scouting-combine/


EDGE Brian Burns, Florida State
Sweat stole the show Saturday, but Burns wasn’t far behind. He showed up in Indianapolis at 6-5 and 249 pounds – adding possibly 20 pounds to his frame since the end of Florida State’s season – and still ran 4.53 in the 40 and 7.01 in the three-cone. He was most impressive in the on-field positional drills, where Burns moved around more like a cornerback than an edge rusher. He could be the perfect hybrid outside linebacker for Packers defensive coordinator Mike Pettine.

That can't be good weight, but then his on field drills were OK. I am hoping 20+ pounds is a high guesstimate.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

He is 6-5 260,

Are we watching the same films? Ferguson looks like a “Nitro” safety but runs like Josh Sitton. Watch how slothly the dude attacks the ball carrier.

I think his lack of speed will hinder him off the edge against NFL tackles, even against Jason Spriggs, the pie-fucker in American Pie. If Ferguson is indeed 260, he oughta gain 20 or so lbs and play the 5 technique or something.

[gbgary]

post combine mock: nfl-mock-draft-3-0-combine-stars-make-big-leaps (https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/1710503/nfl-mock-draft-3-0-combine-stars-make-big-leaps)

another: doug-farrars-mock-draft-2-0-post-combine-edition/2/ (https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2019/03/05/doug-farrars-mock-draft-2-0-post-combine-edition/2/)

winners/losers: combine-winnerslosers-montez-sweat-soars (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001020821/article/2019-nfl-scouting-combine-winnerslosers-montez-sweat-soars)

[wist43]

Packerwire: https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/04/10-potential-packers-draft-picks-who-crushed-the-nfl-scouting-combine/



That can't be good weight, but then his on field drills were OK. I am hoping 20+ pounds is a high guesstimate.

I've actually moved Burns ahead of Polite... his ceiling might be higher.

Based on play, it's Polite; but, Burns did enough, and he'll likely grow into his frame.

[bobblehead]

post combine mock: nfl-mock-draft-3-0-combine-stars-make-big-leaps (https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/1710503/nfl-mock-draft-3-0-combine-stars-make-big-leaps)

another: doug-farrars-mock-draft-2-0-post-combine-edition/2/ (https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2019/03/05/doug-farrars-mock-draft-2-0-post-combine-edition/2/)

winners/losers: combine-winnerslosers-montez-sweat-soars (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001020821/article/2019-nfl-scouting-combine-winnerslosers-montez-sweat-soars)

That first one is a wet dream. Sweat slides to 12 and Hockenson to 30....right. I'll buy my futures ticket on winning the Owl if it plays like that.

[Deputy Nutz]

I like Burns above Sweat and Polite.

Edge Rushers
1. Bosa
2. Ferrell
3. Allen
4. Burns
5. Sweat
6. Polite
7. Ferguson
8. Ximines
9. Miller
10. Jelks

[SudsMcBucky]

i watched a couple "vs" vids of rashan Gary because i've seen him mocked to us in a couple of places

talk about a guy that looks like a JAG, there doesn't seem to be anything special about him

he sure has hell doesn't play like a guy that can run a 4.58

he doesn't show much strength fora guy that weighs 277

and worst of all, he gave up on a ton of plays way too early when he was within 5 yards of the ball

he's a solid "no" from me

I feel like Gary has "bust" written all over him. Therefore, he'll probably end up being 10 time pro-bowler, 5 time all-pro.

[RashanGary]

I like Burns above Sweat and Polite.

Edge Rushers
1. Bosa
2. Ferrell
3. Allen
4. Burns
5. Sweat
6. Polite
7. Ferguson
8. Ximines
9. Miller
10. Jelks

Ferrell that good, huh?

[RashanGary]

Ferrell doesn’t look like a 3-4 player.

[wist43]

Ferrell doesn’t look like a 3-4 player.

I like Ferrell... would prefer a pure edge guy though I suppose. Don't think Ferrell can stand up. He's very productive though, and a good all around player.

What % of the time are we even in base 3-4 anyway?? The league has changed so much over the past 6-8 years that 6 man fronts of whatever makeup are more common than 7 man fronts.

I think Ferrell could be very productive in Pettines system.

[Bretsky]

I like Ferrell... would prefer a pure edge guy though I suppose. Don't think Ferrell can stand up. He's very productive though, and a good all around player.

What % of the time are we even in base 3-4 anyway?? The league has changed so much over the past 6-8 years that 6 man fronts of whatever makeup are more common than 7 man fronts.

I think Ferrell could be very productive in Pettines system.



Ferrell is an elite talent IMO

I think he can excel in any system

[Deputy Nutz]

Ferrell doesn’t look like a 3-4 player.

In reality, only Polite truly looks like a 3-4 OLB. The rest of them are usually in a 3 point stance 70% of the time. They all rush better out of a 3 point stance.

[Deputy Nutz]

I feel like Gary has "bust" written all over him. Therefore, he'll probably end up being 10 time pro-bowler, 5 time all-pro.

Gary is a 4-3 end, and he is super talented, I don't think he is a super motivated kid. A lot of folks think that Football has been a means to an end for him, that might not be fair to him but that is what the film tells me.

[Fritz]

Don't draft Rashan Gary, please. Just say no. I have seen the guy play. It's not that impressive.

But I don't watch the tape like you guys, so my opinions of the others you're discussing are based mostly on what you all write. If that Ferrell is the monster you say he is, he sure seems like he'd be a great pick. Or, if Wist is right, White would be great. Though the Detroit papers all have the Lions as heavily interested in White at #8.

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 6

Jalen Jelks DE, Oregon
Films, Arizona,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4MsnOSqFEQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyuzzdVTBBs

First Take: Jelks is a project. He just doesn't look comfortable as a 3-4 end or as an outside linebacker in the Ducks 3-4 scheme. As a pass rusher he has a very mediocre first step, his hands fail him more than help him and he never gets the offensive lineman off balance regardless of his pass rush. Jelks looks skinny and a bit weak. He struggles to hold the point of attack and get off blocks to make plays. He will probably get drafted a little higher than he should since after the first 5 pass rushers are gone it seems the second and third tier guys are pretty average.

[Deputy Nutz]

Don't draft Rashan Gary, please. Just say no. I have seen the guy play. It's not that impressive.

But I don't watch the tape like you guys, so my opinions of the others you're discussing are based mostly on what you all write. If that Ferrell is the monster you say he is, he sure seems like he'd be a great pick. Or, if Wist is right, White would be great. Though the Detroit papers all have the Lions as heavily interested in White at #8.

I don't think Ferrell or White will be there at 12. I do like Devin Bush with the late pick in the first round, or possibly the second round pick. I don't see a dramatic drop off from White to Bush

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 6

Austin Bryant Edge, Clemson
Film: Duke, Boston College

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqw1fV57bmY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPTdxuvFqXQ

First Take: Clemson defensive linemen are very well coached. Bryant looks the part but in reality he is a step slow, slow to react, and what the urban dictionary would call a "Basic Bitch". He doesn't hurt you, he is solid at the point of attack and holds ground, but Bryant just seems like a step or two slow, and not just with his feet, but with his hand placement, and his reading of blocks. I really want to like him, but my eyes kept drifting off to Ferrell on the other side. He looks like a Nick Perry clone in a Clemson Jersey. There isn't really anything dynamic to say about him. He has a good motor and goes out there to compete and give it everything he has but he is just basic, bro.

[run pMc]

Day 6

Jalen Jelks DE, Oregon

What do you think of his teammate, Justin Hollins? I've read some like him better but both would IMO fall into the Day 3/project category.

[call_me_ishmael]

My only concern with Ferrell is when the last time a line had 4 NFL picks on it, Mario Williams was the best player and the others busted. There's so much talent (and steroids) that it's hard to judge Clemson's highly paid DL.

[bobblehead]

I like Burns above Sweat and Polite.

Edge Rushers
1. Bosa
2. Ferrell
3. Allen
4. Burns
5. Sweat
6. Polite
7. Ferguson
8. Ximines
9. Miller
10. Jelks

I think Burns and Sweat put themselves in the top 10 conversation. The reason I like and believe Sweat is better comes down to the senior bowl where by all counts he impressed.

[bobblehead]

I don't think Ferrell or White will be there at 12. I do like Devin Bush with the late pick in the first round, or possibly the second round pick. I don't see a dramatic drop off from White to Bush

Bush shouldn't be there at 30 if white is gone at 12. Bush is exactly 1" shorter, ran .02 slower in the 40 and beat White in every other event at the combine. Both impress on film so no huge advantage there. 5' 11" compared to 6'? 4.42 compared to 4.44? I'll take the faster short shuttle and 3 cone 15 picks later every time. I would love a scenario where we get a great offer to move back 3-4 spots in this draft. Still land an edge, then move up 5 spots and get Bush.

[bobblehead]

Nutz, look up Ben Bonagu. His workout was awesome. I know nothing about him, but he ran a 4.58 and actually beat sweat in both jumps and the short shuttle.

[Deputy Nutz]

Justin Hollins OLB, Oregon
Films: Stanford, Arizona

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTBekafoYzc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9L0Ni7T_Ks&t=342s

First Take: Hollins is a traditional 3-4 outside linebacker. My first impressions are that he isn't quick enough off the ball, he isn't strong enough to consistently harass the QB, and his zone recognition on pass drops are not breath taking. His feet stop when the offensive lineman engages him and he is stop more often than he is not. He isn't a super aggressive player not looking to be a block destroyer or lay out on tackles. He needs to work on his ball get off, and using his hands when engaging offensive linemen, he needs to work on adding pass rushing technique. He should be a mid round draft pick.

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 6

Ben Banogu OLB, TCU
Films: Texas, Cal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrvBMYoJDCY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmdinC4vxVU&t=488s

First Take: Good not great first step. Same issues as a lot of these edge rushers as they need to look into the backfield for their keys and they don't read the block of the tackle. He stops his feet too often when the offensive linemen engages, doesn't work to get the offensive linemen on their heels. Bonagu lacks change of direction, and isn't overly impactful in the run game. He films like a better athlete than some of these other guys, but some of the same issues appear in his game as I have seen in the film of others.

[jklowan]

I think I would be happy with this...

12: EDGE MONTEZ SWEAT - MISSISSIPPI STATE
30: LB DEVIN BUSH - MICHIGAN
44: S TAYLOR RAPP - WASHINGTON
75: DL ZACH ALLEN -BOSTON COLLEGE
114: TE JACE STERNBERGER - TEXAS A&M
118: OT DERWIN GRAY - MARYLAND
150: G MARTEZ IVEY - FLORIDA
185: RB BRYCE LOVE - STANFORD
194: CB/S SHELDRICK REDWINE - MIAMI
226: DL DANNY WISE - KANSAS

[Deputy Nutz]

12: R1P12
DL QUINNEN WILLIAMS
ALABAMA
30: R1P30
OT JONAH WILLIAMS
ALABAMA
44: R2P12
LB DEVIN BUSH
MICHIGAN
75: R3P11
TE JACE STERNBERGER
TEXAS A&M
114: R4P12
WR EMMANUEL HALL
MISSOURI
118: R4P16
S JAQUAN JOHNSON
MIAMI
150: R5P12
EDGE JUSTIN HOLLINS
OREGON
185: R6P12
CB DAVID LONG
MICHIGAN
194: R6P21
QB CLAYTON THORSON
NORTHWESTERN
226: R7P12
OT ISAIAH PRINCE
OHIO STATE

I don't know how the first two guys fell, but I was taking them, no questions asked. The problem right now with this draft if the Packers don't use their first pick on an Edge rusher there are very few outside the top 5 maybe 6 that I really see making a difference in 2019/2020.

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 6

Ed Oliver DT, Houston
Film: Rice, Arizona

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4I7s51VNhY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpM-OO3oXz8

First Take: Oliver is a hell of a talent. The comparisons to Aaron Donald are really good comparisons, shorter defensive linemen that are ridiculously strong, quick and place a premium on technique. Oliver could have more pressures from inside than any other defensive rookie in 2019. He is that good. He is worthy of a top 10 pick in this draft, and there will be a team that will take him simply because they don't want to be the team that misses out on the next Donald. Oliver uses great leverage and his feet never stop moving. The key to his success is getting off the snap of the ball and engaging the offensive linemen and putting them on roller skates. The one negative is that he tires out by the end of games. In the NFL I am sure he will be rotated more and kept fresh. Houston didn't have that luxury with him and needed him on the field.

[red]

i'd like to get that ILB out of LSU, he seems like the best overall defensive player that could still be around when we pick

but we need 2 OLBs and 2 safeties

i'd love to sign one of each of those positions in free agency so the need there isn't so huge. then we can grab the ILB

[pbmax]

Sorry wrong thread.

Darian Stewart had two years left on his deal. His release saves the Broncos about $3.6M in cap space. Stacked safety group in free agency this year.

Another safety is available. I am starting to believe wist when he says it doesn’t matter ;)

[red]

Darian Stewart had two years left on his deal. His release saves the Broncos about $3.6M in cap space. Stacked safety group in free agency this year.

Another safety is available. I am starting to believe wait when he says it doesn’t matter ;)

sign 2

i kind of like the idea of weddle

he's up there in age, but the dude can play and knows how to play

his last contract was only 6.5 per year. so you would think he would get a bit less then that now, so he wouldn't break the bank

[Bretsky]

sign 2

i kind of like the idea of weddle

he's up there in age, but the dude can play and knows how to play

his last contract was only 6.5 per year. so you would think he would get a bit less then that now, so he wouldn't break the bank





How about a 2 Yr .....4-4.5mil/yr ? Will he still command that ?

[wist43]

I'm not keen on taking Bush... the only reason I want White is b/c I think he's special. Don't see Bush as being appreciably better than Martinez, so I'd rather focus on upgrading other positions.

Rumors have it that Gute is going after at least one edge rusher, and my guess is that White will be gone by 12... so maybe Burns at 12??

A couple of weeks ago I'd have said no to Burns at 12, but I'm thinking more highly of him now.

So say, Gute signs a guy like Shaquil Barrett at LB/Edge, and Amos at safety... add Burns at 12 and Adderley at 30/44??

Spend the other of 30/44 at OL or WR.

I would call that a successful offseason.

[wist43]

I like Adderley more than Rapp.

[Deputy Nutz]

I can't really comment as I have not watched either of them play. Just on what I have read and NFL.com says Adderley is mistake prone in coverage.

Its really hard to watch secondary players on youtube.

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 7
Nasir Adderley
Films: NDSTU, Lafayette

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8RDJBHVQrQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8RDJBHVQrQ

First Take: I have to admit its tough to get a real idea on defensive backs with the video available. Adderley is an aggressive safety and is active in the run game and attacking blocks from perimeter players, like most safeties he doesn't want to get mixed up with offensive linemen. He looks very fluid and can change direction. He takes good angles, understands his run fit, takes good angles to the football, and doesn't run himself out of plays.

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 7
Taylor Rapp S, Washington
Films: Auburn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgN836DMY_8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM1LsvbHPmE

First Take: Old school type safety that just throws his body into the ball carrier. Seems like he understands good team defense and fits well in the run game and against the quick screen and jailbreak screens. He was used as often as a blitzer and box safety, other times he was lined up 15 yards off the ball. He demonstrates that he can form up on ball carriers and make clean tackles and not lose his shoes in the open field. Rapp isn't going to cost any elevator his job when an NFL team drafts him.

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 7

Jonah Williams OT, Alabama
Films: Georgia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUpgz12euPQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd0h9xPr9vY

First Take: Williams has really good body control and on running plays he does a really good job of working up field on combo blocks and squaring up on the backside linebackers. He is quick to the second level and using good balance when engaging defenders, he doesn't fall off or whiff. In pass pro Williams can get beat like all linemen, and usually when he expects a rusher to go outside and then jump inside with a swim move. He keeps his numbers aligned to the rusher, and he does a very good job at recognizing line stunts and passing off rushers to the inside. He can lose focus. A series here and a series there, especially in the Georgia game when the Alabama QB went out of the game because Williams got beat on a pass rush and he stepped on the QB's foot. Williams offers consistency, and any team needs that out of their OT. He will give up pressures on occasion, he won't be happy about it and will work to correct.

[wist43]

Some are saying Polite might have run himself out of the 1st round entirely...

His combine is certainly at odds with the tape... he has a lot to prove at his pro day.

[Freak Out]

I like it when Nutz shows up. Fuck ya..

[RashanGary]

I like it when Nutz shows up. Fuck ya..

Yep, good stuff! Wist and nutz both, honestly.

[Deputy Nutz]

What are the most important positions that need to be addressed in the first round for the Packers? There should be players available in the first round that will fit need and BPA scenarios.

I will start.

1. The defensive front seven. I know broad, and it seems like over the past 5 years this has been solidly in the top of priorities for the Packers. In the first round over the past 10 years the Packers have taken 5 front seven players in the first round out of 10 selections. Matthews for all his woes is solidly at the top of the list followed by Clark and Raji. Raji cut his career short, and Clark is going into his 4th season. Perry had one decent season and was over paid for that one season, otherwise he has been a bust with injury and a lack of production. Datone Jones was a complete bust. Can the Packers front office figure it out in 2019? There are roughly 15 front seven players that have 1st round grade in this draft. The Packers don't necessarily need to reach with that many readily available players in the first round to improve their front 7.

2. Offensive Line. The Packers have selected two offensive linemen in the first round over the last ten years. Bulaga has been a warrior and when healthy one of the better right tackles in the NFL. But consistent injuries to his knees is costing the Packers production, and he can no longer be relied on to hold the right tackle spot. Derrick Sherrod was a late first round flyer and suffered a gruesome leg injury that he was never able to overcome. The overall depth on the line is a weakness for the Packers. The right side is dangerously bad in pass protection.

3. Safety. The Packers have spent one first round draft pick on a safety in ten years. Ha Ha Clinton-Dix could never play with the consistency a defense needed from the safety position. Whether it was due to attitude or mental understanding of coverage, but it wasn't from a lack of talent. Overall the Packers have spent 3 first round picks on secondary players in the last ten picks in the first round, you can make it four if you consider the trade two years ago that brought in King in 2017 second round. There are roughly 2 or 3 safeties that carry the potential of a first round selection.

[Joemailman]

My Draft Network Mock Draft https://thedraftnetwork.com/mock-draft-machine


12 Montez Sweat EDGE Mississippi State

30 Noah Fant TE Iowa

44 Dalton Risner OT Kansas State

75 Jeffery Simmons IDL Mississippi State

114 Damien Harris RB Alabama

118 Antoine Wesley WR TTU

150 Joe Jackson EDGE Miami

185 Elijah Holyfield RB Georgia

194 Tyree St. Louis OT Miami

226 Saivion Smith CB Alabama

Can't do trades with these online drafts, and S and ILB just weren't there when picking. I've been noticing with these interactive drafts that often in Rounds 3-5, an awful lot of the BPA are RB's and WR's.

[pbmax]

Some are saying Polite might have run himself out of the 1st round entirely...

His combine is certainly at odds with the tape... he has a lot to prove at his pro day.

Didn't he leave early? Combine meltdowns don't have a great history.

[pbmax]

Nutz, Google translate is not helping me with this:


Rapp isn't going to cost any elevator his job when an NFL team drafts him.

I am assuming either he is short OR cannot jump?

[Joemailman]

Didn't he leave early? Combine meltdowns don't have a great history.

I think he decided not to participate in some drills after saying he hurt hamstring in 40. I think the interviews he does may be as important as the drills he does at his Pro Day. He needs to show teams he's serious about being a professional athlete. If he did really injure his hamstring, he was smart to pull out of the other drills. If he pulled out because he realized he was too out of shape to do well, then that's another matter.

[red]

Nutz, Google translate is not helping me with this:



I am assuming either he is short OR cannot jump?

Not willing to go down on his women?

Or maybe he doesn’t like carrying people up and down stairs?

[Deputy Nutz]

Nutz, Google translate is not helping me with this:



I am assuming either he is short OR cannot jump?

Evaluator

[red]

How about a 2 Yr .....4-4.5mil/yr ? Will he still command that ?

already signed with the rams

2 years 10.5 million. can get that up to 12.5 million

i thought 5.5 million a year would be about right, turns out i'm pretty smart

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 7

Nick Bosa DE, Ohio St.

Film Oregon St, Wisconsin '17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DywEAjzhVxo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrJiL44jLCU

First Take: Bosa is everything you want in an edge rusher. He is literally using his hands every play and his feet don't stop. As a sophomore against Wisconsin he had to work a little harder against top notch NFL caliber offensive linemen, but he was still a disruptor in bother the pass and run. Playing against Oregon St he was just at another level as a Junior. He should go as the top defensive player taken and if not any team wanting the best edge rusher in this draft or really the past three drafts should try to move up and select him.

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 7

Dalton Risner OL, Kansas St. #71
Films: Mississippi St, Texas (films do not indicate player before the snap so you have to look for #71)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mReLnXRYv3Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arrtJajKRaA

First Take: The guy could play right tackle in the NFL and he could be a guard. I don't know if he is going to be dominant at either position. He blocks in the run game like a right tackle. He does a decent job in the run game, I would like to see Risner drive forward on his blocks and gain some ground, but all in all he does a nice job in the zone run game, coming off his initial block to pick up second level players. Pass blocking on 5 techniques won't be a problem for him, but it is the 9 techniques on the outside that will give him some fits. He gives up too much ground on the speed rush off the edge. He makes contact too many times when the rusher is already in the backfield. he is too careful not to get beat on the double move back to the inside so he gets depth but does not widen out. This could be worked on by getting out of his stance faster and moving his feet quicker to get in the right position to attack edge rushers inside of letting them come to him 4 yards deep. His Pad level could get better. He needs to drop his ass a little bit in both the run game and pass pro. I think he will be more than serviceable at the pro level, and can fill at all spots on the line besides left tackle.

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 8

Jawaan Taylor T, Florida
Film: Florida St, Georgia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szwGLoyU_aI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5cnomu0nVk

First Take: His feet are really good especially in his pass protection set. Seems to stay balanced and does a good job of recovering because he moves his feet so well. Taylor is one of those linemen that never seem to panic in their pass sets, he has confidence in his abilities. He does play high, and you know that pad level has to get fixed. This hurts Taylor in the run game as he is not much of a drive blocker. In fact I was not impressed with his running blocking as he seems more apt to lean on a guy than actually move him. His footwork is still excellent and his feet take him where he needs to go quite well, but he doesn't seem to have a passion for run blocking which is disappointing because he would be considered a top of the first round guy if he did. He seems more comfortable at right tackle than at left tackle.

[red]

I actually get to draft BPA, without neglecting a glaring need

[wist43]

Hoping White drops!!!

[red]

Hoping White drops!!!

hell yeah

[call_me_ishmael]

https://twitter.com/LandryLocker/status/1105628765961490432


#Browns GM John Dorsey’s draft picks the last five years (4 with #Chiefs):

2013: Eric Fisher (1), Travis Kelce (2)
2014: Dee Ford (1)
2015: Marcus Peters (1)
2016: Tyreek Hill (5)
2017: Pat Mahomes (1), Kareem Hunt (3)
2018: Baker Mayfield and Denzel Ward (1)

He's so good. I like Gooter but I am disappointed the Packers didn't float the msg to Horsey they were moving on from Ted and to come on home.

[RashanGary]

I’d be happy with Ed Oliver, Clelin Ferrell, or Devin White

[Anti-Polar Bear]

https://twitter.com/LandryLocker/status/1105628765961490432



He's so good. I like Gooter but I am disappointed the Packers didn't float the msg to Horsey they were moving on from Ted and to come on home.

Wanna know why Andy Ried fired Dorsey? Dorsey was one arrogant motherfucker and he had an ego the size of the Roman god Jupiter. Apparently, being incarcerated in Cleveland with a fraudulent owner hasn’t humbled Dorsey any.

I’d rather Ted Thompson GM the Pack than Dorsey, and I wrote like 96 chapters of Ted is Trapped in the Closet.

Btw: Just how big was Jupiter’s ego? He held the the Romans down, and laughed as the gay men drown...as Rome was a-burning. Jupiter was so egoistic and vicious, the Romans started worshipping the deity of the awesome hippie they crucified back in their heyday.

[Deputy Nutz]

I’d be happy with Ed Oliver, Clelin Ferrell, or Devin White


These would be my first three guys on the defensive side, or Quinnen Williams. On the offensive side the Packers might have to think about offensive line and I don't know if the 12th spot will warrant one of the linemen left, so I could again see the Packers trade back in the draft to acquire more picks. There are basically 4 or 5 players that I would consider for the 12th pick.

Farrell
Oliver
White
Bosa(not going to be there)
Quinnen Williams(not going to be there)
Jonah Williams
Josh Allen(not going to be there)

[bobblehead]

Hoping White drops!!!

After the spend apalooza yesterday I am convinced we trade down in this draft.

If they are planning on trading down and white or sweat falls, maybe they make that pick, but unless someone they can't believe slipped through, I see them loading up on picks, even picks in next couple years.

These contracts all expire in 3-4 years. Rodgers likely loses most effectiveness around same time. It makes sense to load up on capital after yesterday.

[pbmax]

https://twitter.com/LandryLocker/status/1105628765961490432



He's so good. I like Gooter but I am disappointed the Packers didn't float the msg to Horsey they were moving on from Ted and to come on home.

It’s a good run. Picking early does help though.

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 8
Mack Wilson LB, Alabama
Films: Auburn, LSU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul_n6L1M1z0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db9gLXPJW68
First Take: Wilson doesn't rely on his instincts. He relies on his ability to read and diagnose what is in front of him based on his film study. At times he is where he is supposed to be when teams don't expect him to be there. Wilson doesn't fall for false keys or miss direction. All of this is well and good, but he isn't a LB that will knife through the line or jump underneath a block and make a big play. He almost waits until the play is upon him. His coverage skills are really good. Wilson has phenomenal technique with his drops and reading his keys in zone coverage. He can play all three downs in pass coverage. I would like to see Wilson become more assertive and instinctual in the run game and defeat blocks using his hands instead of waiting for the ball carrier to arrive. Decent blitzer understands his responsibilities when blitzing, will not jump gaps and mess up the scheme.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Anybody scouted Greedy Williams yet? I think the Packers signing the Smiths and apparent interest in resigning Wilkerson and Matthews (as an ILB with versatility to give outside rush snaps) maybe points to them not expecting Bush or maybe Oliver to fall. Hockenson is nice, but I don't know if you draft a TE who isn't an exceptional athlete at 12. More likely, they look at TE with pick #30 - hoping one of the top three fall. Oliver may still pique their interest, but I'm starting to think OL or CB is really in play (especially since there doesn't appear to be any urgency to resign Breeland). If they draft Greedy, Alexander can play in the slot. If King gets hurt again, Alexander can kick outside. The knock on Greedy is that he doesn't like to tackle, but he looks a big press man CB that Pettine had with the Jets, Antonio Cromartie. King could be that too, but they need to cover themselves. Josh Jackson could give them the flexibility to play at safety.

[red]

Anybody scouted Greedy Williams yet? I think the Packers signing the Smiths and apparent interest in resigning Wilkerson and Matthews (as an ILB with versatility to give outside rush snaps) maybe points to them not expecting Bush or maybe Oliver to fall. Hockenson is nice, but I don't know if you draft a TE who isn't an exceptional athlete at 12. More likely, they look at TE with pick #30 - hoping one of the top three fall. Oliver may still pique their interest, but I'm starting to think OL or CB is really in play (especially since there doesn't appear to be any urgency to resign Breeland). If they draft Greedy, Alexander can play in the slot. If King gets hurt again, Alexander can kick outside. The knock on Greedy is that he doesn't like to tackle, but he looks a big press man CB that Pettine had with the Jets, Antonio Cromartie. King could be that too, but they need to cover themselves. Josh Jackson could give them the flexibility to play at safety.

you mean bush fall to #30? cause i'm not seeing too much showing bush going before #12

or are you talking about the guy a lot of us want, devin white?

[Deputy Nutz]

Like I said earlier in this thread, I wouldn't put it pass the Packers taking a defensive back, more aptly a corner. King hasn't exactly worked out, and Jackson is coming off a very forgetful rookie year. I think the Packers will look at a couple of offensive linemen early with the 12th pick, but most likely will still go defense.

[HarveyWallbangers]

you mean bush fall to #30? cause i'm not seeing too much showing bush going before #12

or are you talking about the guy a lot of us want, devin white?

Yes, I meant White.

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 9

TJ Hockenson TE, Iowa
Film: Wisconsin Penn St

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwMd79nUaHA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYELtSGHfpI

First Take: Hockenson is a toolbox kind of kid. I like him but I don't love him. Seems to need to add some bulk. He does seem to do an adequate job blocking at the TE position, holds his ground keeps lanes open for the back, but he isn't going to make his money at the next level being a great blocker, it will help but he has to catch the football. At 6-5 and 250 pounds you can live with 4.7 forty time. He plays the game fast enough and makes tough catches in traffic and over the shoulder type stuff. Hockenson has good focus on the football. Hockenson is sneaky athletic in open space, I would like to see him faster off the ball though. I don't think he does enough on film to distinguish himself from Fant or Smith the other two TEs in the top tier. I can't see a team picking in the first half of the first round, but he should contribute right away to whatever team drafts him.

[Deputy Nutz]

As far as TEs go for the Packers in this draft, I think the Packers will lean towards a guy like Irv Smith. He fills a more flexible role than Fant or Hockenson. He can play wing and H, and from everything I hear or read the Packers are going to rely more on their TEs to play off the line. Smith did more of that at Alabama then the other two at Iowa.

[red]

As far as TEs go for the Packers in this draft, I think the Packers will lean towards a guy like Irv Smith. He fills a more flexible role than Fant or Hockenson. He can play wing and H, and from everything I hear or read the Packers are going to rely more on their TEs to play off the line. Smith did more of that at Alabama then the other two at Iowa.

And you might be able to get him in the second

[pbmax]

Signing Lewis indicates that at least one TE is going to be on the line blocking a DE or OLB, more like the Shanny offense in San Fran. McVay has less dominant blockers at TE in LA and used them as H back and in motion to create space, misdirect and cut off pursuit.

And that could be the plan for now. If they get a more multi-dimensional threat at TE, that could change into the more modern TE threat of run or pass from heavier personnel.

But LaFleur keeps mentioning outside zone running as the basis for his offense and I think that means a blocking TE will get the majority of snaps. I think they would have to fall in love at either 12 or 30 to take a TE. Not saying Packers don't need an upgrade, but I think the current plan is to make do without and pray for one more year with JimmyG.

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 9
Noah Fant TE, Iowa
Film: Iowa St, Penn St

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoO1kERW7VA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwaYUs_odRw

First Take: Fant might be the best combination of size and speed. You hear the term glorified wide receiver but I think he is a little more than that. He is a willing blocker when asked to double team with the tackle, but I don't think you could rely on him to be your kick out block on power, or counter. I don't know how much he will improve as an inline blocking tight end and in reality you might be wasting your time with him if you try to make him that. He runs good to great routes, plays the ball like a basketball player, and has really good body control. Neither Fant, Smith, or Hockenson are miles apart from each other, it is what each particular team is looking to get out of their TE position when they draft.

[Deputy Nutz]

Signing Lewis indicates that at least one TE is going to be on the line blocking a DE or OLB, more like the Shanny offense in San Fran. McVay has less dominant blockers at TE in LA and used them as H back and in motion to create space, misdirect and cut off pursuit.

And that could be the plan for now. If they get a more multi-dimensional threat at TE, that could change into the more modern TE threat of run or pass from heavier personnel.

But LaFleur keeps mentioning outside zone running as the basis for his offense and I think that means a blocking TE will get the majority of snaps. I think they would have to fall in love at either 12 or 30 to take a TE. Not saying Packers don't need an upgrade, but I think the current plan is to make do without and pray for one more year with JimmyG.

You just needs a luke warm body at tight end to block the backside of zone, but if you run it to your strength/TE you need to have a competent guy their that can combo with the Tackle to get the end blocked and then get the next level blocked.

[pbmax]

You just needs a luke warm body at tight end to block the backside of zone, but if you run it to your strength/TE you need to have a competent guy their that can combo with the Tackle to get the end blocked and then get the next level blocked.

And that is something I don't know about this offense. Do they always run in toward strength? Away or a mix? Or do they read the defenses alignment?

[Deputy Nutz]

https://usatfalconswire.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/outside_zone_toss.jpg?w=1000

Against an 8 man box, which most NFL teams won't ever commit 5 linemen. You get the basics of it though

[run pMc]

Irv Smith Jr in R2?
or
Foster Moreau on Day 3?

the list of TE drafted in early rounds over the last few years has not exactly produced a lot of stars, and TE drafted high are largely seen by NFL draft rooms as luxury picks. I'm not sure GB falls in the category of being able to drop a high pick on a TE unless there's someone there they really like. They have Graham, Lewis and Tonyan -- basically they need someone to push the others and do better than Kendricks.

[woodbuck27]

Signing Lewis indicates that at least one TE is going to be on the line blocking a DE or OLB, more like the Shanny offense in San Fran. McVay has less dominant blockers at TE in LA and used them as H back and in motion to create space, misdirect and cut off pursuit.

And that could be the plan for now. If they get a more multi-dimensional threat at TE, that could change into the more modern TE threat of run or pass from heavier personnel.

But LaFleur keeps mentioning outside zone running as the basis for his offense and I think that means a blocking TE will get the majority of snaps. I think they would have to fall in love at either 12 or 30 to take a TE. Not saying Packers don't need an upgrade, but I think the current plan is to make do without and pray for one more year with JimmyG.

Pray for and what and Jimmy Gee!

This guy simply looks like a waste of CAP.

He looks over cooked.

[woodbuck27]

Nutz, Google translate is not helping me with this:



I am assuming either he is short OR cannot jump?

Hahaha...Should the word 'elevator' in his sentence be substituted with the word ' evaluator '?

[woodbuck27]

Signing Lewis indicates that at least one TE is going to be on the line blocking a DE or OLB, more like the Shanny offense in San Fran. McVay has less dominant blockers at TE in LA and used them as H back and in motion to create space, misdirect and cut off pursuit.

And that could be the plan for now. If they get a more multi-dimensional threat at TE, that could change into the more modern TE threat of run or pass from heavier personnel.

But LaFleur keeps mentioning outside zone running as the basis for his offense and I think that means a blocking TE will get the majority of snaps. I think they would have to fall in love at either 12 or 30 to take a TE. Not saying Packers don't need an upgrade, but I think the current plan is to make do without and pray for one more year with JimmyG.

Holy Mackeral pbmax and 59,608 Posts !

Someone please contact the Guiness Book Of World Record.

At the same time have 'the Favre Thread' recognized.

These have to both be what I deem 'incredible records' and and Fan Forums and Pro Sports.

[wist43]

Pray for and what and Jimmy Gee!

This guy simply looks like a waste of CAP.

He looks over cooked.

Hey WB, how ya been??

I don't see any TE's worth taking in the 1st round... maybe Fant in the 2nd, but certainly none of them are worthy of 1st round consideration IMO.

Some people have Hockenson going to us at 12... I would not be a happy packer camper if that happened.

I'm wanting White or Burns at 12... there are quite a few other guys I'd be okay with at 12, but not Hockenson, and not Metcalf.

[Deputy Nutz]

The Packers are committing a lot of money to the veterans at the TE position, I don't see a TE that is worthy of the 12th pick. I would hate the selection less and less with each pick after the 12th. I think Hockenson would be the most consistent, and Fant could have the highest ceiling as a pass catcher but I think the Packers have taken care of the depth chart with veterans at this point. I think I would rather see one of the top 4 receivers taken with the 30th pick before TE.

Foster Moreau does look intriguing on the 2nd or 3rd day of the draft. I think after the second round all the rankings we see as spectators get thrown out the window. Teams are willing to risk draft picks after round two on potential, hard to see rankings based on personnel observations from front office scouts.

[call_me_ishmael]

Interesting read.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-why-rashan-gary-is-not-a-first-round-talent

Not sure how I feel about it. Worth a few minutes though.

[Deputy Nutz]

I would say the article is pretty dead nuts on Gary. His overall lack of production for his college career is concerning. Compare him to Bosa and it's comical.

[call_me_ishmael]

Well comparing anyone to a Bosa is freaking comical. They're Bosa's for a reason, and they're as close to a sure thing as you can.

It's interesting to compare and contrast with Ed Oliver, who doesn't have the measureables but does have the production. Me? Give me Oliver, but it's hard to argue with the freaky deaky athlete that Gary is. Not a lot like him.

[Deputy Nutz]

Gary and Bosa came into college at the same time and Gary was the better college prospect. That is the comparison.

[wist43]

Guess I need to add Gary to the list of guys I don't want at 12... Gary, Metcalf, Hockenson.

Actually, don't want them at 30 or 44 either.

[Deputy Nutz]

If Gary or Hockenson were there are 44 I would think to draft them.

[wist43]

If Gary or Hockenson were there are 44 I would think to draft them.

Gary, I'd just take him off my board... everyone can see the talent, but to have done exactly nothing with it to date is just too big of a red flag. If he hits, he hits; but I'd put his odds at less than 50/50. Dont want to spend that high of a pick on those odds.

Hockensen?? He's just not my type of TE. His body type, avg athlete, no special traits. Good football player, but not a guy with a high ceiling... I want the early round guys to have high ceilings.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Hockenson is more athletic than you give him credit for. His 40 was above average (not great), but he tested very well every else. He was 85+ percentile in every other drill (two were above 90) besides the 3 cone (which was still at 77). When you add in him being one of the best blocking TEs you'll see, he's intriguing. I still don't advocate taking a non-premium position at 12. I'd wait until 30 and see if one of the top 3 drops. There are also a few other TEs worth drafting in round 2 out 3. TE appears top heavy this year.

[Bretsky]

Hockenson would be a great pick at 30 but not 12

[wist43]

Hockenson would be a great pick at 30 but not 12

I agree we could use a TE, but that doesn't mean we need to jump early for a middling ceiling player. I see Hockenson as more of a 4th-5th round guy.

There are other players at other positions that have a chance to make bigger impacts.

I like Marquis Brown with one of those 2 picks... assuming he's healthy and the team thinks he can handle a decent workload. Risner or Lindstrom are 2 other guys I like in that area.

[Bretsky]

Wisty why the hate for Wisconsin badgers and white tight ends? I would love brown too. Hockenson is a good athlete and is the most complete tight end in the draft. Great route runner with decent speed who actually blocks. At a position where Green Bay has been painfully short of talent at

[Bretsky]

I would bet a brewski hocker is well gone by 30 and I agree I don’t want him at 12

[Fritz]

Gary, I'd just take him off my board... everyone can see the talent, but to have done exactly nothing with it to date is just too big of a red flag. If he hits, he hits; but I'd put his odds at less than 50/50. Dont want to spend that high of a pick on those odds.

Hockensen?? He's just not my type of TE. His body type, avg athlete, no special traits. Good football player, but not a guy with a high ceiling... I want the early round guys to have high ceilings.

I agree with you on Gary. He was supposed to be The Next Big Thing, but he was never consistently disruptive. Pass on him.

[pbmax]

https://www.sbnation.com/a/nfl-offseason-free-agency-draft-2019/mock-draft

The mock of mocks has the Packers most likely selection Brian Burns, if not, then Hockenson.

[red]

https://www.sbnation.com/a/nfl-offseason-free-agency-draft-2019/mock-draft

The mock of mocks has the Packers most likely selection Brian Burns, if not, then Hockenson.

the whole breakdown

22% have brian burns
20% have Hockenson
14% have devin white
11% have ferrell
11% have sweat
8% have fant
11% have someone else

so thats a pretty good start for who we (the posters) should be looking at

[Smidgeon]

the whole breakdown

22% have brian burns
20% have Hockenson
14% have devin white
11% have ferrell
11% have sweat
8% have fant
11% have someone else

so thats a pretty good start for who we (the posters) should be looking at

Would the PR consensus hate any of these picks? I know the TEs would certainly add for some argument, but what about a resounding "No" on one of them?

[Bretsky]

I like hockenson a lot but not at 12. Now if Green Bay trades back 8 spots and picks up another 2nd that would work. Oliver should really be on that list

[red]

Would the PR consensus hate any of these picks? I know the TEs would certainly add for some argument, but what about a resounding "No" on one of them?

i don't like pass rushers from florida state

i just have it in my head that they always are busts

[SMBASS]

White and maybe Sweat or Ferrell, (Not sure yet.) would be the only players on that list I'd consider at 12. Pick 30 would be a different story. Especially regarding the TE's. Absolutely no to Burns.

[smuggler]

I'm not interested in Sweat. I don't like what I've heard of him in college. He can go play for the Bengals for a few years.

[SMBASS]

I have my reservations about Sweat too smuggler and I need to look at Ferrell a little harder. I hope White or someone like Williams drops and is available but I won't hold my breath. 12 is somewhat of a weird position this year depending on how the top 10 picks go.

I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to dropping back to maybe even around 20 and getting some additional picks if they feel nobody is available who is worth the 12th spot.

[RashanGary]

Hockenson is more athletic than you give him credit for. His 40 was above average (not great), but he tested very well every else. He was 85+ percentile in every other drill (two were above 90) besides the 3 cone (which was still at 77). When you add in him being one of the best blocking TEs you'll see, he's intriguing. I still don't advocate taking a non-premium position at 12. I'd wait until 30 and see if one of the top 3 drops. There are also a few other TEs worth drafting in round 2 out 3. TE appears top heavy this year.

I agree. That third round TE, the one who caught the Hail Mary but sucked... dick rod! That’s right, I almost forgot his name. Well, dick rod I thought would be ok cuz he had great hands and was skilled even though he was a bad athlete. I was dead wrong. But Hockenson has similar ball skills and is a skilled blocker too. So he has that quality of being good at football. But hockenson is different the dick rod in a few ways

6’5 251 32 1/4 arms
6’4 257 32 5/8 arms this is a push

4.7 40 significantly faster than dick rod
4.87 40

17 reps bench
16 reps bench (push)

37.5 vert (significantly more explosive blocker and player)
31.5 very

7.02 3 cone (ridiculously agile for size)
7.23 blah

Same for shuttle and broad jump. Huge difference. Main point here is Hockenson is a highly skilled pass catcher and blocker as well as being very explosive and agile and also he’s much faster than plodding TEs but not as fast as the blazers.

He’s one of the safest players in the draft. He’s good at everything and in some ways an extraordinary athlete and in others just good enough.

He’s the most draftable TE in this class imo because he’s so good at football and also a very good athlete. I would take him 20 or later and feel really strongly that I have an upper tier NFL player.

[wist43]

I just ran 5 draft simulations on a draft simulator, and only once did I come away with White.

Twice I took Oliver, and twice I took Burns.

The picks at 30/44 came out various with Risner, Ferguson, M.Brown, Lindstrom, Parris C., Adderley.

Was able to snag Hanks in 2 drafts in the 3rd, but I think he'll go in the 2nd round.

[RashanGary]

I just ran 5 draft simulations on a draft simulator, and only once did I come away with White.

Twice I took Oliver, and twice I took Burns.

The picks at 30/44 came out various with Risner, Ferguson, M.Brown, Lindstrom, Parris C., Adderley.

Was able to snag Hanks in 2 drafts in the 3rd, but I think he'll go in the 2nd round.


I’m hoping for White or Oliver.

But I like burns too. He closes so hard! If he’s healthy, I can’t imagine a guy that long and explosive, fast and flexible not getting a bunch of sacks on the next level. With the two guys we have now, he could be a specialist for his first two years while he grows into his body. I can still imagine him getting 10 sacks even if he’s only in on probable pass downs.

[Joemailman]

Latest Fanspeak Draft

12: R1P12 EDGE MONTEZ SWEAT MISS. STATE
30: R1P30 LB DEVIN BUSH MICHIGAN
44: R2P12 S NASIR ADDERLEY DELAWARE
75: R3P11 RB DEVIN SINGLETARY FAU
114: R4P12 DL KHALEN SAUNDERS WESTERN ILLINOIS
118: R4P16 WR MECOLE HARDMAN GEORGIA

[RashanGary]

I’d be happy with

LB Devin White or DT Ed Oliver
EDGE Jachai Polite or LB Devin Bush
FS Juan Thornhill


Our defense would be so damn fast if we can significantly upgrade ILB and FS

[wist43]

Latest Fanspeak Draft

12: R1P12 EDGE MONTEZ SWEAT MISS. STATE
30: R1P30 LB DEVIN BUSH MICHIGAN
44: R2P12 S NASIR ADDERLEY DELAWARE
75: R3P11 RB DEVIN SINGLETARY FAU
114: R4P12 DL KHALEN SAUNDERS WESTERN ILLINOIS
118: R4P16 WR MECOLE HARDMAN GEORGIA

Bush was there at 30 on 4/5, but I'm not targeting him there... dont think he's special like White.

I'm going to look at him some more though b/c I know a lot of people are high on him.

Would like to see Hanks there in the 3rd.

[RashanGary]

Bush was there at 30 on 4/5, but I'm not targeting him there... dont think he's special like White.

I'm going to look at him some more though b/c I know a lot of people are high on him.

Would like to see Hanks there in the 3rd.

Look at Juan Thornhill. He seems to have a little Nick Collins in him

[RashanGary]

Would like to see Hanks there in the 3rd.


Wist, Hanks runs a 4.98 40 yard dash. Unless he was injured or slipped during that, there’s no way he’s gonna play in the NFL

Edit: he had a hamstring injury. He might be ok!

[RashanGary]

I watched some Hanks. He looks good. I like Bush better. He’s short, but stocky, fast and tough.

[Deputy Nutz]

Look at Juan Thornhill. He seems to have a little Nick Collins in him

Thornhill had some fantastic test out numbers at the safety position. I struggle to watch film on the secondary guys because of the television camera angles. Especially safeties, but his numbers are good.

[RashanGary]

Thornhill had some fantastic test out numbers at the safety position. I struggle to watch film on the secondary guys because of the television camera angles. Especially safeties, but his numbers are good.

Athletic numbers and pass breakups and interceptions and plays behind the line too. Productive and athletic. He’s interesting. Secondary players more than any other spot, I think the production numbers like pass breakups and interceptions seem to really translate. I guess sacks for pass rushers too. But those things seem to count quite a bit.

[Deputy Nutz]

Ran 5 sims through the 4th round.
1.
1/12: Oliver DL Houston
1/30: Risner OL K-St
2/44: Wilson LB Alabama
3/75: Hall WR Mizz U
4/114: Harris RB Alabama
4/118: Johnson S Miami

2.
1/12: White LB LSU
1/30: Little OL Miss
2/44: Rapp S Washington
3/75: Ximines Edge Old Dom
4/114: Harris RB Alabama
4/118: Oliver TE SJ St

3.
1/12: White LB LSU
1/30: Wilkens DL Clemson
2/44: Risner OL K-ST
3/75: Rapp S Washington
4/114: Hall WR Mizz U
4/118: Oliver TE SJ-St

4.
1/12: White LB LSU
1/30: Sweat Edge Miss St
2/44: Love CB ND
3/75: Gardner-Johnson S Florida
4/114: Piershbacher OL Alabama
4/118: Boykin WR ND

5.
1/12: Bosa Edge Ohio St
1/30: Little OL Mississippi
2/44: Bush LB Michigan
3/75: Gardner-Johnson S Florida
4/114: Hall WR Mizz U
4/118: Oliver TE SJ-St

I targeted White with the first pick. The only time he was not selected when he was still on the board was when Bosa dropped in the fifth sim. So he was on the board 4 out of 5 times. Ferrell was on the board all 5 times with the first selection. I think it is a toss up between Oliver and Ferrell and I went with Oliver in the first sim. 4 out of 5 sims a safety worth drafting was there in the 3rd round. A sleeper in this sim is wide receiver Emanuel Hall out of Missouri. The guy has big time numbers, and his work outs were pretty good. I would question why he would be available in the 4th round when the actual draft happens. None of the first tier TEs will make it out of the 2nd round. I would imagine if one of the top 3 guys was there with the 2nd round pick the Packers would have to consider drafting TE. If the Packers want to go edge rusher, and take one of the top 4 or 5 guys they will probably either have to take him with their first pick. There is no way Sweat is dropping to pick 30 in this draft. I was also surprised to see Ximines drop in the 2nd sim to the third round, he is not as raw as some people think coming from a small school. He isn't as talented as the top 3 or 4 guys but he is right at the next tier of edge rushers.

[Deputy Nutz]

Athletic numbers and pass breakups and interceptions and plays behind the line too. Productive and athletic. He’s interesting. Secondary players more than any other spot, I think the production numbers like pass breakups and interceptions seem to really translate. I guess sacks for pass rushers too. But those things seem to count quite a bit.

The College game has gone the way of the spread, and with the spread comes the quick passing game, the jail break screen, quick screen so pass rushing numbers are a little bit hard to translate to the next level. I can watch those guys, look at their get off, how fast their hands make contact, hip and knee bend as they turn the edge. They have to play so much faster at the college game to generate pressure.

[run pMc]

So this is making the rounds now re: Devin White https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dV4t663pPQ

Everything I've read says he's a very good player but he's not Roquan so he's probably a cut below and could be there at 12 unless someone buys the hype or the QBs don't get drafted. ILBs rarely go top 10, and with AJ Hawk we saw why.

[run pMc]

I like Gardner-Johnson out of FL from what I've seen. Seems like he can blitz, cover, and also play deep. If he's there in R3 i'll be surprised, and hoping Gute looks at him.

[run pMc]

Thornhill had some fantastic test out numbers at the safety position. I struggle to watch film on the secondary guys because of the television camera angles. Especially safeties, but his numbers are good.

Looks like he studies film but occasionally takes a false step. Lean build, but isn't afraid to tackle or mix it up. Looks like he can run and at a minimum can be taught to improve his instincts. The ball skills are pretty good - I guess he has some background as a basketball player but isn't a Q.Rollins. I still like Gardner-Johnson better but as a mid-round pick you could do worse than Thornhill.

[Fritz]

I’m hoping for White or Oliver.

But I like burns too. He closes so hard! If he’s healthy, I can’t imagine a guy that long and explosive, fast and flexible not getting a bunch of sacks on the next level. With the two guys we have now, he could be a specialist for his first two years while he grows into his body. I can still imagine him getting 10 sacks even if he’s only in on probable pass downs.

You're plagiarizing, JH. These are things Drew Barrymore says about me.

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 10

Emanuel Hall WR Missouri
Film: Florida, Wyoming

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEi-wL0p_Dk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrSVDYY7m6U

First take: Really fluid athlete, when he runs he has long strides but he is able to cut on a dime and turn defenders around. Hall can do the whole back shoulder catch thing pretty well, and he can go after the deep ball as well. His blocking isn't terrific but again you probably aren't drafting him within the first 90 picks to be a great blocker. Hall has excellent body control and awareness along the sideline. Has all the prototypical size and length, he is a plus on speed and a plus on his vertical jump.

[pbmax]

https://twitter.com/BrandonThornNFL/status/1107724327632424961

Clips only on WSU LT Andre Dillard.

[wist43]

Wist, Hanks runs a 4.98 40 yard dash. Unless he was injured or slipped during that, there’s no way he’s gonna play in the NFL

Edit: he had a hamstring injury. He might be ok!

He's faster than 4.98... he could be into the 2nd rd.

[run pMc]

Yeah, Hanks is faster than that. He's raw as all get out as a converted safety and the ILBs in this class might push him up, but if someone takes him R2 that would be a reach IMO.

[bobblehead]

the whole breakdown

22% have brian burns
20% have Hockenson
14% have devin white
11% have ferrell
11% have sweat
8% have fant
11% have someone else

so thats a pretty good start for who we (the posters) should be looking at

I would be giddy with White or Sweat. I can live with Burns. Anyone else I want to trade back to 17-19 range and take Bush who is nearly equal to White in every way. 1" might mean a lot to my wife, but it doesn't sway me at ILB. Gotta grab him before Pitt at 20 though. I guarantee they take him if he is there at 20.

[bobblehead]

Bush was there at 30 on 4/5, but I'm not targeting him there... dont think he's special like White.

I'm going to look at him some more though b/c I know a lot of people are high on him.

Would like to see Hanks there in the 3rd.

In what way is Bush not as special as white? Personally I would draft bush, have him shed 10 pounds and make him the next nick collins!!

[Deputy Nutz]

I would be giddy with White or Sweat. I can live with Burns. Anyone else I want to trade back to 17-19 range and take Bush who is nearly equal to White in every way. 1" might mean a lot to my wife, but it doesn't sway me at ILB. Gotta grab him before Pitt at 20 though. I guarantee they take him if he is there at 20.

I would not trade back if one of these players were available
Jonah Williams
Quinnen Williams
Josh Allen
Joey Bosa
Ed Oliver
Celin Ferrell

If most of these guys were available I would trade back 5 or 6 spots, and if you ended up with a Sweat or a Burns I could live with trading back. I don't think I would want Bush in the first 20 picks in the draft. I would probably say the same for White. I think they are both talented, but I would rather get one of the top 5 pass rushers in the top twenty. Rules for the top twenty QBs, CBs, Edge, and Left tackles with exceptions. I don't think Bush or White fall into the top twenty based on their production and position.

I would rather have bush at 30 than White at 12

[Cheesehead Craig]

Does Sweat's now discovered heart condition dissuade any of you Sweat-hogs from wanting to take him at #12?

[Deputy Nutz]

I never wanted to take him at 12. His film doesn't match his testing numbers. I would like him some where in the first but probably not before 15.

[RashanGary]

I never wanted to take him at 12. His film doesn't match his testing numbers. I would like him some where in the first but probably not before 15.


I just looked at highlights, but he looked good to me. Guys that long don’t look as fast cuz their strides are so big, but I see a guy with enough speed to truly threaten the edge and the body to grow into where it’s not going to be his only trick.

I like his chances.

[run pMc]

I would not trade back if one of these players were available
Jonah Williams
Quinnen Williams
Josh Allen
Joey Bosa
Ed Oliver
Celin Ferrell

If most of these guys were available I would trade back 5 or 6 spots, and if you ended up with a Sweat or a Burns I could live with trading back. I don't think I would want Bush in the first 20 picks in the draft. I would probably say the same for White. I think they are both talented, but I would rather get one of the top 5 pass rushers in the top twenty. Rules for the top twenty QBs, CBs, Edge, and Left tackles with exceptions. I don't think Bush or White fall into the top twenty based on their production and position.

I would rather have bush at 30 than White at 12

Agree 100% on this, although I'd be ok if they didn't draft either ILB. I think they still need another OLB and to address OL, plus the DL depth is very good and if they aren't signing Wilkerson they can do better than Lancaster/Montravious.
I think Jonah Williams and Clelin Ferrell will be there at 12.

And I'm not on the M.Sweat bandwagon. I think he's very raw and his athleticism won't be as big of an advantage in the pros.

[RashanGary]

Jonah Williams reminds me of Bahk coming out. Only knock is size. Blocks everything. Just a baller. Would be nice to have for sure! Bahk could end up sliding to RT once he goes over 30 and could last a long time. Williams could start at RT and go to left when he’s in his prime and Bahk is past his.

I’d be cool with that pick.

[RashanGary]

Of the guys that might make it to us

I’m feeling good about Devin White, Jonah Williams, Ed Oliver

I kinda like Sweat and Burns too. I’d be excited with either!

[RashanGary]

Really good draft to have a top 12 pick!!

[pittstang5]

Dalton Risner - I'd like to see this guy in a Packer Uniform. Maybe take him with the 30th. Will he be there in the 2nd?

[Deputy Nutz]

Dalton Risner - I'd like to see this guy in a Packer Uniform. Maybe take him with the 30th. Will he be there in the 2nd?

I wouldn't count on him being there at 30, but I wouldn't be surprised if he is there. He offers a lot of flexibility for teams, he can play center, tackle, and guard.

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 11

Quinnen Williams DT, Alabama
Films: Texas A&M, LSU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO-KS2QlW3g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH54FvuCOHQ

First Take: Williams looks and feels like the total package when it comes to interior defensive linemen. He has a solid frame with a big butt, strong legs and sizable upper body. He wears #92 and has a very similar build to Reggie White. Outside of those two qualities the similarities stop. Williams is a good football player that should only get better with more playing experience but he nor any other defensive linemen is comparable to Reggie White. He does everything well, but he doesn't have that one super quality yet. He has a very good interior swim move that he battered college offensive linemen with, but he relies on it too much. NFL caliber linemen will catch it very quickly. He needs to add to his rep. His ball get off is good, not great. He uses his hands well but not excellent. He needs to work his hands more and not stay locked on to blocks. I would like to see him disengage quicker and find the football quicker. He seldom gets pushed off the line of scrimmage which is the most important thing when looking at interior defensive linemen. They need to command the double team and at the very least neutralize it and free up the linebacker to make the play. Williams is a relatively inexperienced starting only one year at Alabama, but that doesn't mean he is raw. He does a lot of technique well, but it can be improved and that is what is so exciting for NFL GMs, they realize he hasn't even scratched the surface of his potential.

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 11

Dexter Lawrence DT,Clemson
Film: Pitt, Syracuse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1z6Sjoc7ec

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC5YUWSB8Hs

First Take: He is a big body that demands two linemen to block at the point of attack. Lawrence is a run stuffing lineman eating defender. He isn't go to get you much in terms of a consistent pass rush especially against snap and throw offenses, but I think he can give you a bull rush and can collapse the middle as a pass rusher. He doesn't have great change of direction, but that should be obvious considering he is 6'4" 345 pounds. I think every team would like a big nasty clog in the middle but I am just not sure how high teams are will to go to get a player like Lawrence. He is a two down lineman that you will probably pull off the field in passing situations.

[RashanGary]

Nutz, between Oliver and Williams, who looks better?

[Deputy Nutz]

I like Oliver more than Williams. Williams will be more consistent in the long run, but Oliver will always be more dynamic.

[Deputy Nutz]

So film break down has started. I watched two whole games from these three guys: Josh Allen OLB Kentucky, Clelin Ferrell Edge, Clemson, and Devin White LB, LSU.


Clelin Ferrell Edge, Clemson
Film: Texas A&M, Boston College

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMEk291fktU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX5fg9ULf7k&t=265s

First Take: I absolutely love this kid. He is a hybrid defensive end/linebacker in the true sense of the word. As an end in a 3 point stance his first step is amazing, he seems to always use his hands and get extension on the tackle or TE. He uses an array of pass rush moves unlike any other film I have watched. He has the mobility to stand up in a two point stance and drop into coverage, and what I love is that he lined up all over the field and was able to apply pressure whether he was blitzing or coming out of a three point stance. Ferrell's instincts are very good he understands how to play team defense. He is not selfish. A lot of guys will undercut blocks and give up contain, Not Ferrell he will continue to battle and stretch the play. Ferrell does need to get stronger in the lower half of his body, there were several times when he tried to redirect off the tackles block and he just could get his feet planted.

Devin White LB, LSU
Film: Alabama, Miami

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woJsOsRPBIc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kpao9O01xg

First Take: The guy is a tackler and he can run. He doesn't over run plays and almost slow plays to a fault. He is assignment sound and plays good team defense. What I guess bothers me the most is that he makes a lot of tackles four yards down field or more. Watching his film against Alabama you would not think that he is one of the better defensive players in the country. I think his instincts are just OK. I would think about maybe taking advantage of his athleticism and playing him off the edge. I know I have given high praise before, in fact just today but maybe I watched his highlight tape too many times.

....

[Deputy Nutz]

Josh Allen Edge, Kentucky
Fim: Mississippi, and Penn St.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guV-FyX0Mw0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtfJb7_GWw8&t=45s

First take: He seems to lack instincts. He is a good athlete but seems to be either standing in open space or stutter stepping. His best attributes are his timed blitzes. Once he gets moving forward he is a hard man to stop. He played the zone read terribly against Penn St. Not as big of an issue in the NFL but it leads me to think that his instincts and coachability might not be great. I think he will test out great in Indy, but his film didn't do much for me.

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 4

Brian Burns Edge, Florida St.
Films: Virginia Tech, Miami

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yV6a9KzAqo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye8XFAGRbjA&t=58s

First Take: He rushes better out of a 4 point or 3 point stance than when he is in a two point. Looks hesitant in a two point stance. He has a really good first step and can beat college tackles based on his get off. He uses his hands well, and he has a good bend when he is trying to cut the corner. If I was drafting him for a 3-4 defense I am not exactly sure how he would fit. His lower body is skinny. Like most of these edge rushers he tends to peak in the backfield instead of recognizing the block of the tackle. He has a good motor and will chase from the backside with decent pursuit. When he gets stoned out of the block he has a hard time going to a secondary move or bull rushing the tackle. Seems like he has a plan before the snap and when it doesn't work he loses. If he gets stronger in the lower half of his body he might improve. Its not always about the initial move to get pressure but when the offensive lineman gets in good position its how the edge rusher works to still get after the QB.

added the film

[Deputy Nutz]

Rashan Gary DE, Michigan
Films: Ohio St, Penn St

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6AV60zXTeE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfCnrEmJ62o&t=115s

First Take: Rashan Gary has been the highest rated prospect since he has been a 16 year old kid. He is explosive, big, fast, he has all the labels you want out of one of the better athletes in this draft, but the production is a concern for me in the two films I watched. He seems to play the run better than the pass. He is never out of position and he is just very smooth to the point you don't really know if he is giving 100% effort. He plays mostly as a down lineman but I believe he has the ability to stand up. He is a better athlete than Nick Perry, but I don't just bring up Perry's name without reason. You might be misusing Gary if you play him at OLB. It might not be a good fit. He has all the talent in the world to be a JJ Watt type player but he might be more of a Jadeveon Clowney at the next level.

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 2 of Film breakdown. I am sort of concentrating on Edge rushers at the moment.

Montez Sweat DE, Mississippi St.
Films: Ole' Miss, Iowa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHZhuRT4zqk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqjvyyE2f1c
First Take: I am not overly impressed with his athleticism. He looks awkward when he runs. He isn't extremely fluid or flexible. What I did like about him as a pass rusher is that he does a really good job of using his hands and beating the offensive lineman in the battle of quicker use of the hands and arms. I would like him disengage quicker. I didn't not see him play as a stand up OLB or force player. I am not sure if he can play it. The other thing I notice is that he looks skinny especially in the lower half of the body. Needs to add some strength and size. The last thing I will say is that he needs to play with lower pad level. His hat is always higher than the offensive lineman.

Jachai Polite OLB, Florida
Films: Michigan, LSU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqggMXbcmaM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0KEWTFLKw8&t=556s

First Take: Just not big enough or strong enough to win one on one battles with the tackle. Polite cannot get engaged with the offensive tackle, he gets easily controlled. He has to run around or jump to the inside to be effective. He is quick and when you gets off the ball he has created opportunity to disrupt the passer. I would rather work with a guy that can add strength than one that needs to get fast. Polite is one of those quick twitch athletes that has a very good first few steps. I would say that he needs to use his hands better and stop just relying on his speed to get him to the quarterback. He wants to finesse it.

[Deputy Nutz]

Day 3

oshane ximines Edge, Old Dominion
Films: East Carolina, Marshal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqgQ1BvHTRA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f13pHFxsshE

First Take: Guys like this from Mid Major schools are really hard to evaluate. For one the competition and their surrounding players aren't real great. So it is tough to get a read. My first thoughts on this guy is that there is a reason why he is playing at this level. His athleticism just isn't there, his football instincts are at times suspect, and his technique isn't on par with a couple of the other rushers. He certainly looks the part though, he has the right frame, with the right development. He has long arms and he has the height. He struggles with reading the offensive line, particularly the tackle. He is slow off the ball because he can't determine if it is a pass or run, he can only tell when he looks into the backfield which costs him valuable seconds to get to the QB. Late in games when he expected pass his rush game got much better. He plays the run decently well. My issue if he is to be considered a first round talent, you should be able to see consistent first round talents on the field and I just didn't see that out of him on film.

[RashanGary]

Thanks for the info, man! Honestly, I trust it more than the shit written. The writers get thrown off by scouts lying and hiding stuff. Your stuff is just straight observation and experience so it’s trust worthy!

[bobblehead]

I would not trade back if one of these players were available
Jonah Williams
Quinnen Williams
Josh Allen
Joey Bosa
Ed Oliver
Celin Ferrell

If most of these guys were available I would trade back 5 or 6 spots, and if you ended up with a Sweat or a Burns I could live with trading back. I don't think I would want Bush in the first 20 picks in the draft. I would probably say the same for White. I think they are both talented, but I would rather get one of the top 5 pass rushers in the top twenty. Rules for the top twenty QBs, CBs, Edge, and Left tackles with exceptions. I don't think Bush or White fall into the top twenty based on their production and position.

I would rather have bush at 30 than White at 12

In my assessment the only guys with a chance of being there at 12 from your list are Jonah, Ferrell and Oliver. I'm not convinced Ferrell is better than Burns. I could live with Jonah as the lockdown 10 year RT.

[Sparkey]

The Draft network mock:

12 - Jonah Williams, OT
Alabama

30 - T.J. Hockenson, TE
Iowa

44 - Marquise Brown, WR
Oklahoma

75 - Michael Deiter, OT
Wisconsin

114 - Elijah Holyfield, RB
Georgia

118 - Wyatt Ray, EDGE
Boston College

150 - Ugochukwu Amadi, S
Oregon


Fanspeaks mock draft:

12: R1P12 DL QUINNEN WILLIAMS
ALABAMA

30: R1P30 TE NOAH FANT
IOWA

44: R2P12 S NASIR ADDERLEY
DELAWARE

75: R3P11 G MICHAEL DEITER
WISCONSIN

114: R4P12 RB ELIJAH HOLYFIELD
GEORGIA

118: R4P16 OT ISAIAH PRINCE
OHIO STATE

150: R5P12 LB BEN BURR-KIRVEN
WASHINGTON



After running a few other mocks, I'm pretty sure no one has a clue what will happen. :)

[Fritz]

No one ever does.

[Joemailman]

The Draft network mock:

12 - Jonah Williams, OT
Alabama

30 - T.J. Hockenson, TE
Iowa

44 - Marquise Brown, WR
Oklahoma

75 - Michael Deiter, OT
Wisconsin

114 - Elijah Holyfield, RB
Georgia

118 - Wyatt Ray, EDGE
Boston College

150 - Ugochukwu Amadi, S
Oregon


Fanspeaks mock draft:

12: R1P12 DL QUINNEN WILLIAMS
ALABAMA

30: R1P30 TE NOAH FANT
IOWA

44: R2P12 S NASIR ADDERLEY
DELAWARE

75: R3P11 G MICHAEL DEITER
WISCONSIN

114: R4P12 RB ELIJAH HOLYFIELD
GEORGIA

118: R4P16 OT ISAIAH PRINCE
OHIO STATE

150: R5P12 LB BEN BURR-KIRVEN
WASHINGTON



After running a few other mocks, I'm pretty sure no one has a clue what will happen. :)

Quinnen Williams available at 12? Did he fail a drug test or hit his woman?

[Fritz]

Quinnen Williams available at 12? Did he fail a drug test or hit his woman?

Yes.

It would take both for him to fall to #12.

[RashanGary]

Yes.

It would take both for him to fall to #12.

I’m with nutz in liking Oliver more. Oliver is more violent and explosive.

[bobblehead]

I’m with nutz in liking Oliver more. Oliver is more violent and explosive.

Agree. Mocks tend to be way off, so I have no clue who will be available. As I have said before, this team STILL has a lot of room to grow. Unless you can land a top 8 player (on Gutes board, not Kipers) I still like to trade back with 12. I hope 3 QB's go top 11!! But seriously getting Bush and Adderly while adding draft capital would make me pretty happy. Then its just a matter of Bulaga/Spriggs being healthy/productive. We actually have enough talent on offense to win a lot of games if the D holds teams under 20. Just running effectively to keep Rodgers in favorable situations will get us 20+ a game, and I'm assuming Graham is still worthless.

[Fritz]

I’m with nutz in liking Oliver more. Oliver is more violent and explosive.

From what I have read, I would agree with you.