2020 Wide Receivers

[RashanGary]

2nd and 5 is a great down to take a shot down the field too. So that run sets up a really favorable defense for the passing game to attack

[texaspackerbacker]

The stats have nothing to do with what plays you are running. You could either run or pass. It has nothing to do with smash mouth football.

A completed pass for 5 yards or a run for 5 yards on 1st down makes it 20% more likely to get a 1st down than if you throw an incompletion or get your run stuffed for no gain.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that 42/58 or 51/49 or 36/54 represented total run plays/total pass plays in games. Thus, it has everything to do with what kind of plays you are running. And as I said, in all those cases, some of the running comes in circumstances like protecting leads, running clock, the end of the half, whatever.

Of course 2nd and 5 is better than 2nd and 10, but IMO, that 20% if accurate is not as big a deal as the prospect of throwing for 15 or 20 or 30 or 40 on first down - and completing it a decent percentage of times - rather than wasting downs by running on first down and then sometimes second too.

And no, RG, with the Packer O Line, 2nd and 5 is not a great time to take a deep shot. Even 2nd and 2 or 3 is not, as if you fail on the deep shot, you are set up to run when the D expects it. And the Packers O Line is at its worst in that situation. That also kinda describes why I hate the idea of getting into a funk of running on first down.

And some like to talk about run run run then do play action. Our O Line is porous enough that teams don't need to blitz. Consequently, they tend to have plenty of coverage even on play action.

[pbmax]

While that's funny, there's probably some truth to it, but from the opposite angle: If you show you can run on first down, you strengthen play action significantly, so you pass more and run less.

The numbers show that running better has little effect on play action success.

Defenses are built from the ground up to worry about the run first.

[pbmax]

yep. Exactly how SF owned us twice.

I could call an offense that scores 30 if you give me 8 yards per carry.

[Radagast]

Many of you are forgetting an important factor for winning many games, Time of Possession. A running team burns more clock and runs more plays. This or any other advantage is always a good thing.

[pbmax]

Many of you are forgetting an important factor for winning many games, Time of Possession. A running team burns more clock and runs more plays. This or any other advantage is always a good thing.

One of the most overrated statistics in football.

If your point held, running teams would win more. But they don't. Passing is much more efficient.

Most of the argumentative noise about running the football is that teams with a lead in the second half want to burn clock to shorten the game. So they run more late in the game.

If you want to see a classic example of how coaches (and the press) mistake cause for effect, just rewatch the 2014 NFC Championship game. Then listen to McCarthy explain that he wanted to get to 20 runs in the second half.

:bang:

[Radagast]

One of the most overrated statistics in football.

If your point held, running teams would win more. But they don't. Passing is much more efficient.

Most of the argumentative noise about running the football is that teams with a lead in the second half want to burn clock to shorten the game. So they run more late in the game.

If you want to see a classic example of how coaches (and the press) mistake cause for effect, just rewatch the 2014 NFC Championship game. Then listen to McCarthy explain that he wanted to get to 20 runs in the second half.

:bang:


Naturally you want all to support your logic, NOT.:pc:

[RashanGary]

Naturally you want all to support your logic, NOT.:pc:

I'm with ya rada

[pbmax]

Naturally you want all to support your logic, NOT.:pc:

What I would like is a rebuttal; an argument backed up with some evidence, not a simple assertion that time of possession favors running and winning.

[RashanGary]

Advantages of running the ball well
(and I don't care to prove it or intellectualize a physical sport)

Offensive lineman like to run block (improved moral, empowerment and ownership)
Defenses can't t off on the QB opening up the pass game
Time off the clock takes away the other teams offensive opportunities
More 2nd and 5 or 2nd and 4 opportunities (better defenses to take shots against)
Defenders get tired trying to beat a lot of run blocks
QB sees more favorable pass looks


Anyone has every right to disagree. But I will gladly disagree right back. Wins are more important than efficiency in my mind. Period.

[RashanGary]

And maybe the most important reason to run well. Every year there are one or two pass defenses that can shut down just about any pass offense. You usually see them in the playoffs. If you don't run well and you run into them in the playoffs, your season is likely over.

Run the ball well! Win!

[Bretsky]

What I would like is a rebuttal; an argument backed up with some evidence, not a simple assertion that time of possession favors running and winning.

and if it doesn't exist ?

[pbmax]

and if it doesn't exist ?

Then I expect blame :D

As Bobble and others have pointed out, there are times that it makes sense to run. It makes sense to be good at it so that your situational football is in good shape. It helps you to constrain the defense from wildly tilting toward defending only the pass. Can help you in short yardage and goaline.

I have mentioned another (winning late). A different one entirely would be a severe underdog strategy, where a team undermanned in skill position players plays a superior team. A running attack does a lot to even the matchup for the underdog if you can indeed run and play successful D. See the 1985 Wild Card Cleveland Browns for a fantastic example.

But absent a severe talent problem, running the ball is not on the same level of priority as scoring points and slowing down the opponent's scoring. Its a tactic to help achieve that, not a strategy unto itself.

So schematically and tactically, it makes sense to be prepared to run the ball well. It makes sense to prepare yourself by actually running the ball.

It makes sense to scheme the run game to work out of your pass sets to further confuse the defense, or if not confuse, not concede to them a pre-snap read.

But it doesn't follow any of that that you SHOULD run on first down. Not does it follow that you should have balance in play calling near 50%. You do need to be situationally competent.

[pbmax]

Advantages of running the ball well
(and I don't care to prove it or intellectualize a physical sport)

Offensive lineman like to run block (improved moral, empowerment and ownership)
Defenses can't t off on the QB opening up the pass game
Time off the clock takes away the other teams offensive opportunities
More 2nd and 5 or 2nd and 4 opportunities (better defenses to take shots against)
Defenders get tired trying to beat a lot of run blocks
QB sees more favorable pass looks


Anyone has every right to disagree. But I will gladly disagree right back. Wins are more important than efficiency in my mind. Period.

Wins are more important that efficiency. But your "Period" doesn't do the work of how running more is leading to more winning.

1. Offensive lineman like to talk about run blocking at two times: when they aren't doing it and when they are successful at it. I have yet to hear an offensive lineman say we should run more after getting their ass handed to them. Offensive lineman like success just like those glory boy WR. Its everyone's goal to win one on one matchups and coaches talk it up. Doesn't mean its a good strategy for the team. You don't throw deep every other play just because your star WR likes those routes.

2. True, but running teams still throw on 3rd down and medium to long, so the defense knowing what is coming doesn't stop situational demands. If your first consideration in designing and calling your offense is what you are allowing the defense to do, you have lost the tactical battle. That happens sometimes. But it shouldn't be built in to the design of the offense or your play sheet.

3. Its a good point, but as mentioned in the earlier post, you need to have a lead to make this pay off.

4. Packers did not average that on first down last year. If you tend to run on first down, you are going to be closer to 2nd and 6 on average than 2nd and 4. Missing a throw does put you in a 2nd and 10 hole, but so does running for 2 yards. Passing makes it possible to convert those more unfavorable down and distance. There is also a tendency to remember incomplete throws but not runs for 0 or 1 yards.

5. Defenders get tired playing football. So does the offense. There was a piece this spring arguing how offenses slow down just as much as D and whatever the differential, the score doesn't reflect the defense slowly surrendering big plays and points.

6. Favorable down and distance help the run and pass game equally. The question should be what most helps the offense get the necessary yards.

[RashanGary]

There is a balance between the two, for sure pb. I guess I'm with ya that passing is more important if you had to be good at one or the other.

Most teams forget to run A little more often. I think it's easy for play callers and QBs to want to pass.


In the playoffs, you often times run into truly dominant pass defenses and also truly dominant run defenses. Sometimes a team that's both. It's real easy to get knocked off in the tourney if you cant run well. You see pass rushers like Bosa, Ford, Armstead and buckner.... All on the same team. It's times like these you wished you had learned to run back then. It's times like these you don't live to play again. It's times like these, time and time again.

But yeah, I'm with ya on passing being more important, but I think there is a real pay off, in the playoffs, for being a really good running team too.

You can be the most efficient offense in NFL history (2011 patriots) and then lose cuz you run into osi, tuck and Pierre Paul on the same team. It's only one loss in the regular season. But it's the end of the season in the playoffs. So that's why I'm a big believer in getting that run game down during the season. It's too late by the time you really need it if you don't.

[RashanGary]

And if you're a really good run team, you see a lot of 2nd and 4’s. That's a really good down for big plays. If AR Is under center of a great run team, he will shine. It's not 2011 and him escaping, but if he sees the right defenses, he’ll cut their throats. I have no doubts about that.

[RashanGary]

So, I do hope we run a lot and really well. If we run often and well, I think we’ll be one of the top passing offenses in the league. If we run rarely and just ok, I don't think we have the Jennings, Nelson, Driver, Jones, Finley or Cobb type fire power to just line up and succeed that way.

[Fritz]

Wins are more important that efficiency. But your "Period" doesn't do the work of how running more is leading to more winning.

1. Offensive lineman like to talk about run blocking at two times: when they aren't doing it and when they are successful at it. I have yet to hear an offensive lineman say we should run more after getting their ass handed to them. Offensive lineman like success just like those glory boy WR. Its everyone's goal to win one on one matchups and coaches talk it up. Doesn't mean its a good strategy for the team. You don't throw deep every other play just because your star WR likes those routes.

2. True, but running teams still throw on 3rd down and medium to long, so the defense knowing what is coming doesn't stop situational demands. If your first consideration in designing and calling your offense is what you are allowing the defense to do, you have lost the tactical battle. That happens sometimes. But it shouldn't be built in to the design of the offense or your play sheet.

3. Its a good point, but as mentioned in the earlier post, you need to have a lead to make this pay off.

4. Packers did not average that on first down last year. If you tend to run on first down, you are going to be closer to 2nd and 6 on average than 2nd and 4. Missing a throw does put you in a 2nd and 10 hole, but so does running for 2 yards. Passing makes it possible to convert those more unfavorable down and distance. There is also a tendency to remember incomplete throws but not runs for 0 or 1 yards.

5. Defenders get tired playing football. So does the offense. There was a piece this spring arguing how offenses slow down just as much as D and whatever the differential, the score doesn't reflect the defense slowly surrendering big plays and points.

6. Favorable down and distance help the run and pass game equally. The question should be what most helps the offense get the necessary yards.



To your point #4, it would seem then that the most important running statistic would be yards per carry. If you can average over four, you can make running on first or second down feasible options.

That makes Aaron Jones much more important. He gives you more second-and-sixes or third-and-sixes (if the team passed incomplete on first down) than Jamaal Williams, who gives second-and-sevens (or eights).

[pbmax]

To your point #4, it would seem then that the most important running statistic would be yards per carry. If you can average over four, you can make running on first or second down feasible options.

That makes Aaron Jones much more important. He gives you more second-and-sixes or third-and-sixes (if the team passed incomplete on first down) than Jamaal Williams, who gives second-and-sevens (or eights).

Average per carry is important, because its usually a good measure of better backs. Its not fool proof and backs can only do so much. But as a pure runner, get me the maximum yards, ypc isn't a bad measure. It tells you Jones is a better runner than Williams, even if Williams has other skills.

But to decide to run on first down at a higher than League average, you either have to outperform the D, hard if they are expecting run (and I don't think the Packers are that great at run blocking) OR you have to really believe in the 2nd down run/pass option you are going to setup to call.

Everyone is expecting more run out of La Fleur with Dillon and Daguerrotype, but I expect more passing out of this offense. Especially passing that is not out of 11 personnel running Rodgers offense. Not because La Fleur is fed up or Rodgers is declining, but because they aren't built for it anymore at WR.

[texaspackerbacker]

I wonder if they've decided or even penciled in who is supposed to play fullback.

Yards per carry if they reflect consistency are important, but say for example, a guy gets a 71 yard TD run then 6 runs of 1 yard each ...... wow, he's averaging 11 yards a carry.

What are the odds greater of? two 2 yard runs and a failed run or pass on 3rd and 6? Or Aaron Rodgers missing passes for first down on 3 consecutive plays - even if the other team knows it's coming? I'll take the pass first and run only as a rare change of pace or extremely short yardage.

[bobblehead]

I could call an offense that scores 30 if you give me 8 yards per carry.

I'd rather call the offense that TAKES 8 yards per carry.

[bobblehead]

One of the most overrated statistics in football.

If your point held, running teams would win more. But they don't. Passing is much more efficient.

Most of the argumentative noise about running the football is that teams with a lead in the second half want to burn clock to shorten the game. So they run more late in the game.

If you want to see a classic example of how coaches (and the press) mistake cause for effect, just rewatch the 2014 NFC Championship game. Then listen to McCarthy explain that he wanted to get to 20 runs in the second half.

:bang:

You are right and wrong. TOP isn't a panacea. Its an effect of getting first downs. Get more of them, hold the ball longer. Running effectively is a cause of getting more first downs, but if the D is gearing up to stop it you take what the are not defending and get a first down.

If you can't run effectively you won't throw effectively...and vice versa. Its why you are right that "running" teams don't really win either. Most "run first" offenses are doing so BECAUSE they can't pass for shit. If you have a good balanced offense (by ability) you will end up passing around 60%. Just the nature of the beast.

[RashanGary]

You are right and wrong. TOP isn't a panacea. Its an effect of getting first downs. Get more of them, hold the ball longer. Running effectively is a cause of getting more first downs, but if the D is gearing up to stop it you take what the are not defending and get a first down.

If you can't run effectively you won't throw effectively...and vice versa. Its why you are right that "running" teams don't really win either. Most "run first" offenses are doing so BECAUSE they can't pass for shit. If you have a good balanced offense (by ability) you will end up passing around 60%. Just the nature of the beast.

Well said. A balanced offense (by ability) will fall about 60% pass in a lot of situations. Especially with AR at QB.

I’d like close to 50/50 on first down. It’s only feasible if you’re a really good running team, but I see AR getting some huge passing plays if the offense can run the ball well on first down and often. Often is the only way to make defenses commit to defending it or at least slow down their pursuit as pass rushers and slow down their aggression in pass coverage.

Young AR was kind of a cheat code in that he was a run game in how defenses had to defend him. The Jennings, Nelson, Finley, Jones, Driver, Cobb era made for an all time prolific offense.

There are other ways to build prolific offenses and a 36 year old AR (and aging), this new way makes a lot of sense.

[Bretsky]

Well said. A balanced offense (by ability) will fall about 60% pass in a lot of situations. Especially with AR at QB.

I’d like close to 50/50 on first down. It’s only feasible if you’re a really good running team, but I see AR getting some huge passing plays if the offense can run the ball well on first down and often. Often is the only way to make defenses commit to defending it or at least slow down their pursuit as pass rushers and slow down their aggression in pass coverage.

Young AR was kind of a cheat code in that he was a run game in how defenses had to defend him. The Jennings, Nelson, Finley, Jones, Driver, Cobb era made for an all time prolific offense.

There are other ways to build prolific offenses and a 36 year old AR (and aging), this new way makes a lot of sense.



Completely agree

Calling a spade a spade here. We have to expect AROD's skill set to start going down at least a bit. So two solutions

Loan him up with weapons or blow up your running attack.

If I'm being kind, at WR we our combo of WR/TE talent is in the bottom 25% of the NFL. Maybe worse.

But we have a star in Aaron Jones. And we drafted a RB high as well who seems pretty dam talented. So we're going to need to become a running team IMO

[mraynrand]

Loan him up with weapons or blow up your running attack.

You're in the industry: what kind of APR can we get to loan up arod on weapons or a running attack?

[RashanGary]

If I'm being kind, at WR we our combo of WR/TE talent is in the bottom 25% of the NFL. Maybe worse.


Hard to say just yet. As a ceiling, Lazard could be Evans or Golladay. As a floor, his last years version would be a realistic floor for Lazard.

Sternberger is a really tough projection. There is still some “sky’s the limit” hope for the guy with his college passing prowess and his NFL proven physicality.

I would bet on Lazard to be somewhere between is theoretic ceiling and his known quantity floor.

I would bet on Sternberger to fall somewhere between his high energy, nfl contributor floor that he’s shown and his “sky’s the limit” theoretic potential as well.

I think middle of the pack is more likely than worst case scenerio for the two young guys in the #2 and 3 roles.

But sky’s the limit is still in the realm of reasonable possibility too.

[GB-Brandon]

Take “Pipe Dream Funches” off the list!!!

http://bleacherreport.com/post/green-bay-packers/3b99508f-e1d9-4444-b7ca-77dd3c1e3cc5

[GB-Brandon]

Are we still good at WR everyone? Is everything still swell and going as planned? Trust the process? We’ve seen and been around for years? This is nothing new for us?

We haven’t even started camp.

[mraynrand]

Are we still good at WR everyone? Is everything still swell and going as planned?

We haven’t even started camp.

Too bad they can't play NE twice.

[bobblehead]

Are we still good at WR everyone? Is everything still swell and going as planned? Trust the process? We’ve seen and been around for years? This is nothing new for us?

We haven’t even started camp.

Interesting. He signed a one year deal. Did he get a signing bonus? Is he under contract next season for said deal? How does this work? And what kind of bad advice is he getting to forgo millions of dollars when his risk of dying from this virus is basically zero.

[bobblehead]

Are we still good at WR everyone? Is everything still swell and going as planned? Trust the process? We’ve seen and been around for years? This is nothing new for us?

We haven’t even started camp.

Well, since you told us he was shit anyway I don't see where it makes us worse, does it?

[GB-Brandon]

Interesting. He signed a one year deal. Did he get a signing bonus? Is he under contract next season for said deal? How does this work? And what kind of bad advice is he getting to forgo millions of dollars when his risk of dying from this virus is basically zero.

I think he gets 350k and his contract gets rolled to next year is what I think I read but I’m not 100 percent certain. Someone might need to look that up.

[GB-Brandon]

Well, since you told us he was shit anyway I don't see where it makes us worse, does it?

I didn’t have high hopes for him as far as being a big “game changer” for us but he was Gute’s “BIG MOVE” to fortify the position. With the loss of Allison and zero other additions what was thin is now EXTREMELY THIN. One injury now from devastation. Not in a good position to open camp.

[GB-Brandon]

We have zero competition going on at the receiver position. That’s just completely unacceptable.

[mraynrand]

We have zero competition going on at the receiver position. That’s just completely unacceptable.

Zero?

[GB-Brandon]

Zero?

In the sense that after an injury or so the guys left standing will “make the team”. There might be some so so competition between Lazard, St. Brown and Kumerow to see who the no.2 is but after that you have very little competition in that receiver room. It’s just not an overly talented room and now Gute’s big veteran signing has been removed.

Ideally you would like to create a situation where you have massive talent competing hard which brings out higher a level of play. The Packers are nowhere near this in their receiver room unfortunately.

[Teamcheez1]

In the sense that after an injury or so the guys left standing will “make the team”. There might be some so so competition between Lazard, St. Brown and Kumerow to see who the no.2 is but after that you have very little competition in that receiver room. It’s just not an overly talented room and now Gute’s big veteran signing has been removed.

Ideally you would like to create a situation where you have massive talent competing hard which brings out higher a level of play. The Packers are nowhere near this in their receiver room unfortunately.

Kumerow will be lucky to make the team. He is a No 5 or 6, hardly a No 2.
Funchess will not make the team in 2021. This was his one and only shot.

[GB-Brandon]

Kumerow will be lucky to make the team. He is a No 5 or 6, hardly a No 2.
Funchess will not make the team in 2021. This was his one and only shot.

Then what receivers do you have “Making the Team”?

Please give me this deep receiving corp?

[GB-Brandon]

It’s

Lazard- Some developmental possession receiver potential.

St Brown. - 7th round pick coming off injury. Flashed as a rookie

MVS 5th - round pick who the team and Rodgers lost confidence in last season. Maybe a spot 3.

Bagelton - CFL Pipe Dream

Kumerow- Pipe Dream

That’s the big receiver Corp outside Adams. This is a total fail by the GM.

[Teamcheez1]

Then what receivers do you have “Making the Team”?

Please give me this deep receiving corp?

Kumerow is 28.5 years old, 12 receptions in 2019, and no upside. I will take just about anybody with a glimmer of hope.

[Bretsky]

Are we still good at WR everyone? Is everything still swell and going as planned? Trust the process? We’ve seen and been around for years? This is nothing new for us?

We haven’t even started camp.



Our receiving depth sucked with Funches. It sucks worse today

AROD is currently surroounded with the worst top 4 WR talent I can remember

[Bretsky]

We have zero competition going on at the receiver position. That’s just completely unacceptable.


I think we got a lot of competition. We have a legit #1, a #4, and a whole lot of #7's vying for six spots on the roster

[GB-Brandon]

Kumerow is 28.5 years old, 12 receptions in 2019, and no upside. I will take just about anybody with a glimmer of hope.

Agreed. That’s how bad it is. Brian Gutekunst shouldn’t be allowed to ever have his hands anywhere near any personnel decisions regarding an NFL franchise. Either he has no clue what he is doing or he is completely mis-using his power. This is how teams become like the “New York Jets.” That is what you are watching here in real time.

This whole thing is so bad that it looks like pure “Sabotage”. He must really dislike Aaron Rodgers. There is zero excuse for this. Virus or no Virus. He has completely failed to sufficiently address what many thought was the no.1 need heading into the offseason.

Were basically sitting on the same receiving Corp now minus Allison plus the CFL guy. It’s mind blowing!!

And the Packer are supposedly interested in Everson Griffen? Lmao!!! Total joke. Yeah that’s all we need is another guy to fill into a log jam of 3-4 edge rushers. That would be a total “Gute Move”!! Priceless!!

[Tony Oday]

Release Funches and take his signing bonus back.

[Rastak]

Release Funches and take his signing bonus back.


Nice try, he opted out and is protected. He should be. Vikings got fucked worse than that with Pierce but I fully support the dude.

[GB-Brandon]

Looks like Allison Opted our for the Lions too. Might be last man standing if this thing even takes off.

[Rastak]

Looks like Allison Opted our for the Lions too. Might be last man standing if this thing even takes off.


Starting to seem that way for sure.

[GB-Brandon]

http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2020/08/10/packers-really-bullish-on-wr-equanimeous-st-brown/

What a Pipe Dream!! Would be great if by some miracle it works but once again completely irresponsible for this to be the big Plan/Hope heading into last 1-2 years of Rodgers era.

[GB-Brandon]

Gute couldn’t help himself from heading back over to another Blue Light Special again over at K-Mart!!!

http://twitter.com/AaronNagler/status/1292942936603340800

[Patler]

http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2020/08/10/packers-really-bullish-on-wr-equanimeous-st-brown/

What a Pipe Dream!! Would be great if by some miracle it works but once again completely irresponsible for this to be the big Plan/Hope heading into last 1-2 years of Rodgers era.

I'm not suggesting that it was wise to pin their hopes on just the existing players plus Funchess, put I do think expecting a lot from ESB is much more than just a pipe dream. I thought ESB was head and shoulders above his fellow rookie WRs at the end of 2018, not so much statistically, but in his awareness and readiness. He made some really good plays at critical times, with good hands, fighting for contested balls and working the sidelines. I thought he played like a player who should have been drafted much higher. I know from his college days at ND that he is a very hardworking, dedicated player, who will put in the work.

The bad thing is that even if ESB does make a huge step forward, they need at least one more to do so, too. Doesn't need to be another WR, it could be one of their TEs. They need at least three good, reliable options game in and game out. Others can take turns "flashing" for games now and then, but three have to show up all of the time.

[texaspackerbacker]

Things are not remotely as bad as the negativists make out. St. Brown sounds like a decent chance of being good; Lazard should have a break out season; Valdez-Scantling admittedly is a longshot and probably bust, but he ain't hopeless either as a 4th or 5th best WR. Funchess I don't have much hope for, but who knows. I checked on this guy Fulgham in hopes that maybe they finally picked up a burner ...... but no, just another plodder with fair size. Begelton is not nothing also, based on his past performance. And I, for one, still like Kumerow. All that mediocrity or maybe better, plus a top 3 or 4 in the league in Adams, we aren't that bad off.

[GB-Brandon]

Things are not remotely as bad as the negativists make out. St. Brown sounds like a decent chance of being good; Lazard should have a break out season; Valdez-Scantling admittedly is a longshot and probably bust, but he ain't hopeless either as a 4th or 5th best WR. Funchess I don't have much hope for, but who knows. I checked on this guy Fulgham in hopes that maybe they finally picked up a burner ...... but no, just another plodder with fair size. Begelton is not nothing also, based on his past performance. And I, for one, still like Kumerow. All that mediocrity or maybe better, plus a top 3 or 4 in the league in Adams, we aren't that bad off.

Funches isn’t even playing in 2020.

[GB-Brandon]

I'm not suggesting that it was wise to pin their hopes on just the existing players plus Funchess, put I do think expecting a lot from ESB is much more than just a pipe dream. I thought ESB was head and shoulders above his fellow rookie WRs at the end of 2018, not so much statistically, but in his awareness and readiness. He made some really good plays at critical times, with good hands, fighting for contested balls and working the sidelines. I thought he played like a player who should have been drafted much higher. I know from his college days at ND that he is a very hardworking, dedicated player, who will put in the work.

The bad thing is that even if ESB does make a huge step forward, they need at least one more to do so, too. Doesn't need to be another WR, it could be one of their TEs. They need at least three good, reliable options game in and game out. Others can take turns "flashing" for games now and then, but three have to show up all of the time.

Right, they need jumps from 2 out of the 3 young WR’s or a jump from Sternberger along with “Staying Healthy”.

While anything is possible the probabilities tell me this is just too much to ask.

[GB-Brandon]

Bum No.2. He really can’t stay out of K-Mart!!!

https://twitter.com/CreamCityCtral/status/1293326414561804289?s=20

I guess we can kiss signing AB good bye.

[sharpe1027]

Things are not remotely as bad as the negativists make out. St. Brown sounds like a decent chance of being good; Lazard should have a break out season; Valdez-Scantling admittedly is a longshot and probably bust, but he ain't hopeless either as a 4th or 5th best WR. Funchess I don't have much hope for, but who knows. I checked on this guy Fulgham in hopes that maybe they finally picked up a burner ...... but no, just another plodder with fair size. Begelton is not nothing also, based on his past performance. And I, for one, still like Kumerow. All that mediocrity or maybe better, plus a top 3 or 4 in the league in Adams, we aren't that bad off.

Stop being reasonable. It's either the end of the franchise, or they're winning it all. You can't be somewhere in between.

[Fosco33]

Look back to first couple season w/ Adams. People hated on him pretty hard.

I do think we’re missing a solid # 2 but ESB, MVS, Lazard and Kumerow could all be average (and future #2s).

[Smidgeon]

Look back to first couple season w/ Adams. People hated on him pretty hard.

I do think we’re missing a solid # 2 but ESB, MVS, Lazard and Kumerow could all be average (and future #2s).

I agree with everything except Kumerow. I think he's already at his ceiling.

[GB-Brandon]

Look back to first couple season w/ Adams. People hated on him pretty hard.

I do think we’re missing a solid # 2 but ESB, MVS, Lazard and Kumerow could all be average (and future #2s).


I hate this comparison though when people continue to use it. Adams had some elite numbers coming out of Fresno State and showed he “Belonged” as a rookie. Adams also might have some of the “Best Feet” as far as footwork of any receiver in the NFL. Adams played through a grueling high ankle sprain his sophomore season with Packers that affected him greatly. A similar injury that IR’d EQ for the entire season.

To compare these guys to him at this stage or at similar times in their respective careers is just such a leap of faith IMO.

None of these guys have Adams combination of Explosion, Agility, natural footwork, fluidity or Body control which is more or less why none of them were drafted like Adams in the 2nd round.

[GB-Brandon]

You can’t turn a Donkey into a Kentucky Derby Winner!!!!!

[bobblehead]

I hate this comparison though when people continue to use it. Adams had some elite numbers coming out of Fresno State and showed he “Belonged” as a rookie. Adams also might have some of the “Best Feet” as far as footwork of any receiver in the NFL. Adams played through a grueling high ankle sprain his sophomore season with Packers that affected him greatly. A similar injury that IR’d EQ for the entire season.

To compare these guys to him at this stage or at similar times in their respective careers is just such a leap of faith IMO.

None of these guys have Adams combination of Explosion, Agility, natural footwork, fluidity or Body control which is more or less why none of them were drafted like Adams in the 2nd round.

Sounds like you make a lot of excuses for Adams dud start to his career but refuse to accept any regarding MVS or EQS injuries last season. Both those players are nearly mirroring the path Adams and James Jones took.

edit: And after further review, Adams combine numbers paled in comparison to MVS and he had inferior numbers his first 2 seasons to MVS.

Year one:
MVS 38 581 15.3 DA 38 446 11.7
Year two:
MVS 26 452 17.4 DA 50 483 9.7

MVS hurt his knee in the Lions game I think it was like week 5. Wasn't the same all year. I expect a nice season from him.

[call_me_ishmael]

Aaron Rodgers said Devante was a pro bowl type elite talent as a rookie. Adams also showed up huge in several cases as a rook. I think it's a big time stretch to say anyone is on close to the same trajectory as he was early in his career. Keep in mind he did a lot with two quality receivers in front of him, where as the bums behind him have only one legit guy at the top.

[bobblehead]

Aaron Rodgers said Devante was a pro bowl type elite talent as a rookie. Adams also showed up huge in several cases as a rook. I think it's a big time stretch to say anyone is on close to the same trajectory as he was early in his career. Keep in mind he did a lot with two quality receivers in front of him, where as the bums behind him have only one legit guy at the top.

Big praise from Aaron Rodgers on MVS, says he had a good spring and has what it takes to be an everydown player ARod - June 4th 2019

Also many quotes about how some guys run a 4.4 but MVS PLAYS to a 4.4. Arod has praised MVS many times.

[bobblehead]

Aaron Rodgers said Devante was a pro bowl type elite talent as a rookie. Adams also showed up huge in several cases as a rook. I think it's a big time stretch to say anyone is on close to the same trajectory as he was early in his career. Keep in mind he did a lot with two quality receivers in front of him, where as the bums behind him have only one legit guy at the top.

The bums behind him have HIM in front of them.

[GB-Brandon]

Sounds like you make a lot of excuses for Adams dud start to his career but refuse to accept any regarding MVS or EQS injuries last season. Both those players are nearly mirroring the path Adams and James Jones took.

edit: And after further review, Adams combine numbers paled in comparison to MVS and he had inferior numbers his first 2 seasons to MVS.

Year one:
MVS 38 581 15.3 DA 38 446 11.7
Year two:
MVS 26 452 17.4 DA 50 483 9.7

MVS hurt his knee in the Lions game I think it was like week 5. Wasn't the same all year. I expect a nice season from him.

Now you have gone completely "Cray Cray"

Adams had Rodgers dreaming of Greg Jennings as Rookie. These scrubs had Rodgers calling out the receiving corp repeatedly after practices.

Adams has the "It Factor". Just look at some of his film at Fresno State. He is a true "Ankle Breaker". His body control. His smoothness. His acceleration and ability to throttle up and down is second to none. His ability to high point. Adams was just playing with cats at Fresno State. Go look at the production!!!!


https://youtu.be/G7jOmYjKpsw


You put this all together and you can obviously see why Thompson grabbed him in the second round. Can you please come back to Planet Earth?

[GB-Brandon]

Aaron Rodgers said Devante was a pro bowl type elite talent as a rookie. Adams also showed up huge in several cases as a rook. I think it's a big time stretch to say anyone is on close to the same trajectory as he was early in his career. Keep in mind he did a lot with two quality receivers in front of him, where as the bums behind him have only one legit guy at the top.

Yep,

See New England Game and Dallas Playoff game. We don’t win those games without him most likely.

[GB-Brandon]

Big praise from Aaron Rodgers on MVS, says he had a good spring and has what it takes to be an everydown player ARod - June 4th 2019

Also many quotes about how some guys run a 4.4 but MVS PLAYS to a 4.4. Arod has praised MVS many times.

What do you really expect him to say at this point?

It’s like he is stuck in a marriage that the judge says he can’t get out of for another year so he has to make it look good until he can get out.

[GB-Brandon]

It’s very clear at this point that Rodgers has zero input or influence on what the front office does as far as personnel moves or trying to make him happy or appease him in any fashion.

I have a hard time believing the best option on the table was bringing in Malik Turner and Travis Fulgham all things considered. The Packers have assets to trade such as Jamal Williams and Josh Jackson along with draft picks and cap space. This is not an organization acting with any urgency to WIN NOW.

[Patler]

It’s very clear at this point that Rodgers has zero input or influence on what the front office does as far as personnel moves or trying to make him happy or appease him in any fashion.


Nor should he have any such input or influence. He is paid (very well) to be their QB with all it entails on the field, in the locker room and with and among the players. The last thing I want is Rodgers as "GM, Jr."

It should not be the goal or responsibility of the GM, coach, Pres or others to make Rodgers happy or appease him, other than when they can do so consistent with their overall plans for the organization, both short term and long.

[bobblehead]

What do you really expect him to say at this point?

It’s like he is stuck in a marriage that the judge says he can’t get out of for another year so he has to make it look good until he can get out.

So D had the it factor and Rodgers was lying about MVS last year. Got it. You are very intelligent.

[bobblehead]

It’s very clear at this point that Rodgers has zero input or influence on what the front office does as far as personnel moves or trying to make him happy or appease him in any fashion.

I have a hard time believing the best option on the table was bringing in Malik Turner and Travis Fulgham all things considered. The Packers have assets to trade such as Jamal Williams and Josh Jackson along with draft picks and cap space. This is not an organization acting with any urgency to WIN NOW.

Now you really show your brilliance. You could get a GM to give you something for Josh Jackson and Jamaal Williams...anything. That would make you the best GM in history.

[GB-Brandon]

Now you really show your brilliance. You could get a GM to give you something for Josh Jackson and Jamaal Williams...anything. That would make you the best GM in history.

David Johnson was packaged in with a draft pick for Deandre Hopkins and David Johnson hasn’t been all that productive lately.

I could see where we could package one of those players with a draft pick for a player such as Corey Davis.

I could definitely see the Chiefs being interested in Williams for Sammy Watkins Deal as they need RB help.

Thank you for all the flattery though.

[GB-Brandon]

So D had the it factor and Rodgers was lying about MVS last year. Got it. You are very intelligent.

Okay, Mr. Never Ever Land.

Check out what Adams did at Fresno State.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/davante-adams-1.html

So by this metric he completely dominated his competition and had the production. Basically nobody could stop him. Then you evaluate his tape and it is absolutely “Magnificent”. His combine scores just needed to be okay and they were. His jumps were great. In fact Thompson was asked in interview during draft about his high 4.5 40 and if he was fast enough and Thompson said “Our watch says he is” which was so true.

This is where I draw the line between Gute and Thompson. Gute doesn’t appear to have the same “scouting eye” that Thompson has for tape and production and relies more heavily on RAS scores on combine numbers. This is where you think your getting this great high ceiling player like MVS that usually never works out.

This is also where you think your getting the next Lawrence Taylor in Rashan Gary.

This is also where you think your getting the Next Patrick Mahommes with Jordan Love.

Yet none of these guys have the production to back it up!!!!!

See a pattern here? I am starting to really miss a healthy Ted Thompson.

[GB-Brandon]

Nor should he have any such input or influence. He is paid (very well) to be their QB with all it entails on the field, in the locker room and with and among the players. The last thing I want is Rodgers as "GM, Jr."

It should not be the goal or responsibility of the GM, coach, Pres or others to make Rodgers happy or appease him, other than when they can do so consistent with their overall plans for the organization, both short term and long.

While i don't believe Rodgers should be involved in constructing the roster I do believe when you have QB that is such a big part of what you do and who you are that giving him a weapon or two that he feels good about shouldn't be entirely off the table.

I don't see the harm in at least getting his input on something like that.

[GB-Brandon]

Now I will say if the Packers could get a legitimate no.2 then MVS would be one of the guys I would keep. He then would have more value as a guy that could get matched up with his speed in more favorable 1 on 1 situations giving him some chances to win.

Once again Gute has not done anything to make any of this happen. The framework is simply not there.

[Patler]

While i don't believe Rodgers should be involved in constructing the roster I do believe when you have QB that is such a big part of what you do and who you are that giving him a weapon or two that he feels good about shouldn't be entirely off the table.

I don't see the harm in at least getting his input on something like that.

I do. Just a few of the reasons that come to mind:

1. - Increases the inclination of the player to think he should have input in other or all similar situations.
2. - Makes the player feel even more slighted when his input/opinions are ignored.
3. - Becomes unworkable during very active off seasons when front offices consider a multitude of potential deals. Makes #2, above more likely to occur, especially when #1 is in play.
4. - Even further separates the player from being "one of the guys" albeit more highly paid than the others.

While it might be workable with some players, I would be especially reluctant to involve Rodgers, because he has already expressed a degree of displeasure in not being involved in several coaching changes, decisions I would never want a player involved in. He needs a clearly defined line, I think. No grey areas.

[gbgary]

It’s very clear at this point that Rodgers has zero input or influence on what the front office does as far as personnel moves or trying to make him happy or appease him in any fashion.

I have a hard time believing the best option on the table was bringing in Malik Turner and Travis Fulgham all things considered. The Packers have assets to trade such as Jamal Williams and Josh Jackson along with draft picks and cap space. This is not an organization acting with any urgency to WIN NOW.
they have very little cap and will need to roll over as much as they can to help mitigate the disaster the cap will be in the next 3-4 years. the guys they have get open (as film nerds have pointed out many times) rodgers just needs to throw to them. he's notorious for avoiding the middle of the field. rodgers hates most of MLF's offense. the urgency was used up last year. now they're thinking about the future.

[GB-Brandon]

they have very little cap and will need to roll over as much as they can to help mitigate the disaster the cap will be in the next 3-4 years. the guys they have get open (as film nerds have pointed out many times) rodgers just needs to throw to them. he's notorious for avoiding the middle of the field. rodgers hates most of MLF's offense. the urgency was used up last year. now they're thinking about the future.

According to PFF Adams is the only one with a real positive score of “Getting Open” or beating press coverage consistently. I’ve seen cut up screen shots that have shown some things but tough to say on those things as a whole. Things are different live and Rodgers doesn’t have a long history of just missing wide open receivers. Does he not like LaFleur’s offense? That’s possible but as far as I’m concerned Rodgers is more special then Murphy, Gute, Pettine and Flower Boy combined. None of them are anything special and the wrong people were brought in to replace the last regime IMO which will prove to be more costly then the cap situation moving forward.

When this Jordan Love gets in there people are gonna realize real quick how good they had it. He will “throw the ball”, that’s for sure as he showed that at Utah State last year for 17 interceptions. This dude is a pick machine. Running the football and throwing picks doesn’t mix either. Lol. We’re gonna see him sooner then later. That’s for sure.

[run pMc]

*cough* Ryan Tannehill
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/ryan-tannehill-1.html

Hard to say how J.Love will look, but his first season I expect it to be rocky. That doesn't mean he'll bust. Rodgers looked garbage his first stints in preseason.

I'd have liked to see a WR picked - I am shocked they didn't - but there is some logic in building a strong run game, losing Graham and Allison, and giving the young WR a mulligan (as some would argue Adams got). It would certainly help to improve the talent at WR, but maybe one of MVS/ESB figure out how to beat press and get Rodgers' trust. A rookie or even Funchess would have to work to "earn" Rodgers trust if the stories are to be believed.

And Rodgers does hold the ball too long, and does not like to throw in the middle of the field (more likely to be picked). He will need to adapt and I think he's somewhat open but it will take a while.

[GB-Brandon]

I do. Just a few of the reasons that come to mind:

1. - Increases the inclination of the player to think he should have input in other or all similar situations.
2. - Makes the player feel even more slighted when his input/opinions are ignored.
3. - Becomes unworkable during very active off seasons when front offices consider a multitude of potential deals. Makes #2, above more likely to occur, especially when #1 is in play.
4. - Even further separates the player from being "one of the guys" albeit more highly paid than the others.

While it might be workable with some players, I would be especially reluctant to involve Rodgers, because he has already expressed a degree of displeasure in not being involved in several coaching changes, decisions I would never want a player involved in. He needs a clearly defined line, I think. No grey areas.

Bottom line is they have a Super Bowl MVP HOF QB that has carried the franchise for several years where the relationship is now in question. I’m not certain this has been handled the right way at all. We shall see.

[GB-Brandon]

I do. Just a few of the reasons that come to mind:

1. - Increases the inclination of the player to think he should have input in other or all similar situations.
2. - Makes the player feel even more slighted when his input/opinions are ignored.
3. - Becomes unworkable during very active off seasons when front offices consider a multitude of potential deals. Makes #2, above more likely to occur, especially when #1 is in play.
4. - Even further separates the player from being "one of the guys" albeit more highly paid than the others.

While it might be workable with some players, I would be especially reluctant to involve Rodgers, because he has already expressed a degree of displeasure in not being involved in several coaching changes, decisions I would never want a player involved in. He needs a clearly defined line, I think. No grey areas.

Bottom line is they have a Super Bowl MVP HOF QB that has carried the franchise for several years where the relationship is now in question. I’m not certain this has been handled the right way at all. We shall see.

[GB-Brandon]

*cough* Ryan Tannehill
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/ryan-tannehill-1.html

Hard to say how J.Love will look, but his first season I expect it to be rocky. That doesn't mean he'll bust. Rodgers looked garbage his first stints in preseason.

I'd have liked to see a WR picked - I am shocked they didn't - but there is some logic in building a strong run game, losing Graham and Allison, and giving the young WR a mulligan (as some would argue Adams got). It would certainly help to improve the talent at WR, but maybe one of MVS/ESB figure out how to beat press and get Rodgers' trust. A rookie or even Funchess would have to work to "earn" Rodgers trust if the stories are to be believed.

And Rodgers does hold the ball too long, and does not like to throw in the middle of the field (more likely to be picked). He will need to adapt and I think he's somewhat open but it will take a while.

What if the running game doesn’t improve? How is it such a lock it does? Aaron Jones has shown he can have problems staying healthy. After all Dillion is a rookie. Bulaga will be missed and Wagner IMO is a significant downgrade that appears to be regressing with his own injury concerns. One more injury on the OL and all the sudden the big running game could more or less stall.

Rodgers has always held the ball too long. It’s obvious he doesn’t trust his receivers that much outside Adams. He used to launch 50/50 balls all the time to guys like JJ and Jordy and even Cobb at times. Rodgers doesn’t LOVE these new guys and I don’t care what anybody says. It’s more like he is stuck with them. Gute needed to freshen it up and didn’t do shit so here we are.

[GB-Brandon]

Rodgers used to throw “inside Man Beaters” to J. Finley, Jordy and Jennings all the time. Cobb too. Still does to Adams at times. We don’t have anyone that can beat man press release to the inside. All they have to do is double Adams. Not Rodgers Fault!!!!

Go get some weapons and quit fuken around!!!

[GB-Brandon]

Gute has also failed to mix it up more at the WR position. There is just too much of an excess of 6’2-6’4 210-230 pound possession receivers on this roster. The whole “Big Slot” thing was a failed experiment too. Jimmie Graham didn’t help the situation last year either. If the Packers really want to open the middle of the field they need some “Short Area Speed-Quickness” and I’m not talking about Tyler Ervin or Darrius Shepperd.

I just can’t believe the current state of the whole situation.

[GB-Brandon]

I think it’s pretty simple. Rodgers isn’t gonna throw his All-Time Great Passer Rating away for these scrubs to bumble it away as he doesn’t trust them. Mine as well throw Love in there to throw rocket balls around. Nothing really to lose at this point.

[sharpe1027]

I do. Just a few of the reasons that come to mind:

1. - Increases the inclination of the player to think he should have input in other or all similar situations.
2. - Makes the player feel even more slighted when his input/opinions are ignored.
3. - Becomes unworkable during very active off seasons when front offices consider a multitude of potential deals. Makes #2, above more likely to occur, especially when #1 is in play.
4. - Even further separates the player from being "one of the guys" albeit more highly paid than the others.

While it might be workable with some players, I would be especially reluctant to involve Rodgers, because he has already expressed a degree of displeasure in not being involved in several coaching changes, decisions I would never want a player involved in. He needs a clearly defined line, I think. No grey areas.

All true, but frankly, who's to say they didn't get his input in he first place? Has he said nobody ever talked to him about the direction of the team?

[GB-Brandon]

All true, but frankly, who's to say they didn't get his input in he first place? Has he said nobody ever talked to him about the direction of the team?

Well he did say “He was shocked by the Packers draft” and had to pour himself some tequila. I’m pretty sure that had to do with the “direction of the team”.

Rodgers has even publicly said he liked the receiver Jefferson out of LSU.

[GB-Brandon]

I know some people are high on Lazard but EQ is gonna be the guy pushed for the No.2 spot. I agree with this as I think he is the best chance on the roster they have to fill that role. Still a big long shot though.

Should be a fierce camp battle.

[bobblehead]

David Johnson was packaged in with a draft pick for Deandre Hopkins and David Johnson hasn’t been all that productive lately.

I could see where we could package one of those players with a draft pick for a player such as Corey Davis.

I could definitely see the Chiefs being interested in Williams for Sammy Watkins Deal as they need RB help.

Thank you for all the flattery though.

I give you credit. The strategy of trying to trade with the dumbest man in football (O'Brien) is a good start. And I definitely would be onboard with a cory Davis deal. Sammy? He is a never was. His last 4 seasons were pedestrian. For a guy who hammers MVS, you seem enamored with a guy who has had MVS production 4 years running.

[bobblehead]

Okay, Mr. Never Ever Land.

Check out what Adams did at Fresno State.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/davante-adams-1.html

So by this metric he completely dominated his competition and had the production. Basically nobody could stop him. Then you evaluate his tape and it is absolutely “Magnificent”. His combine scores just needed to be okay and they were. His jumps were great. In fact Thompson was asked in interview during draft about his high 4.5 40 and if he was fast enough and Thompson said “Our watch says he is” which was so true.

This is where I draw the line between Gute and Thompson. Gute doesn’t appear to have the same “scouting eye” that Thompson has for tape and production and relies more heavily on RAS scores on combine numbers. This is where you think your getting this great high ceiling player like MVS that usually never works out.

This is also where you think your getting the next Lawrence Taylor in Rashan Gary.

This is also where you think your getting the Next Patrick Mahommes with Jordan Love.

Yet none of these guys have the production to back it up!!!!!

See a pattern here? I am starting to really miss a healthy Ted Thompson.

Awesome strawman. Yea, I have never pimped Gary or Love. I have openly hated on both picks. But hey, keep lighten it up sparky. Here, let me try that game. You love pedophiles and think there should be no jail sentence for that behavior...you are sick man.

edit: And ffs learn the difference between Your and You're. I hate being the grammar police, I leave that to tex, but you do it over and over and it's annoying. (or its annoying if you prefer)

[bobblehead]

According to PFF Adams is the only one with a real positive score of “Getting Open” or beating press coverage consistently. I’ve seen cut up screen shots that have shown some things but tough to say on those things as a whole. Things are different live and Rodgers doesn’t have a long history of just missing wide open receivers. Does he not like LaFleur’s offense? That’s possible but as far as I’m concerned Rodgers is more special then Murphy, Gute, Pettine and Flower Boy combined. None of them are anything special and the wrong people were brought in to replace the last regime IMO which will prove to be more costly then the cap situation moving forward.

When this Jordan Love gets in there people are gonna realize real quick how good they had it. He will “throw the ball”, that’s for sure as he showed that at Utah State last year for 17 interceptions. This dude is a pick machine. Running the football and throwing picks doesn’t mix either. Lol. We’re gonna see him sooner then later. That’s for sure.

I've seen this post 100x. Substitute a few names, mainly Favre for Rodgers and Rodgers for Love. Now it all makes more sense. You worship Rodgers. He can do no wrong, so all his failings (like not diving for a fumble in NFCC) are forgiven and obviously the fault of everyone else.

[bobblehead]

Rodgers used to throw “inside Man Beaters” to J. Finley, Jordy and Jennings all the time. Cobb too. Still does to Adams at times. We don’t have anyone that can beat man press release to the inside. All they have to do is double Adams. Not Rodgers Fault!!!!

Go get some weapons and quit fuken around!!!

No, he didn't. This post if pure fantasy. I have bitched for years that the TE beating the middle of the field has been gone since the days of Favre. Finley was mostly effective on the edges....same as Cook.

[GB-Brandon]

No, he didn't. This post if pure fantasy. I have bitched for years that the TE beating the middle of the field has been gone since the days of Favre. Finley was mostly effective on the edges....same as Cook.

Finley broke his neck running a post though I thought?

[GB-Brandon]

I've seen this post 100x. Substitute a few names, mainly Favre for Rodgers and Rodgers for Love. Now it all makes more sense. You worship Rodgers. He can do no wrong, so all his failings (like not diving for a fumble in NFCC) are forgiven and obviously the fault of everyone else.

Probably because some of us have been waiting about 3 to 4 years now for the front office to put the correct pieces around Rodgers.

[GB-Brandon]

I give you credit. The strategy of trying to trade with the dumbest man in football (O'Brien) is a good start. And I definitely would be onboard with a cory Davis deal. Sammy? He is a never was. His last 4 seasons were pedestrian. For a guy who hammers MVS, you seem enamored with a guy who has had MVS production 4 years running.

I’m not hammering MVS. I’m simply being realistic of what he is. Your the one in fantasy land trying to bring up this “2nd year slump” comparison too D. Adams which quite frankly has gotten ridiculous. I’ve seen some Packer fans do this just about every year now with a handful of receivers that have all pretty much busted out or were blah.

The reality is none of them could carry Adams lunch and just weren’t as “Talented Football Players” as Adams. You can sit there and develop all you want but statistics prove 7th round Donald Drivers are much harder to find then a 2nd round D. Adams and the Packers have actually proved the statistic true over the last 10 years!!!

It’s simple Fucken math. Go look at the list of all the picks over the last 10 years.

As far as your big pipe dream MVS I’ll post it one more time for you. He is tight hipped and lacks explosion. Has average hands and lacks confidence at times is an issue. He is a long strider and has deep speed but takes a few step to get to top gear. Still not a great route runner and struggles against press coverage.

Best case scenario is a “Situational 3” where he can get matched favorably 1 on 1 and his long speed can be used to stretch the defense for potential big plays.

That’s where we’re at with this guy. Take it or leave it. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[GB-Brandon]

Watkins has never been my first choice but we’re now in a desperate situation so IMO he would be an instant upgrade and a legit no.2 in this offense. I believe he would give us a chance to help free everything up more. He has been in a lot of different situations and I’m not going to go over them all. He is a elite talent and a good football player. He wound be the 2nd best receiver on this roster hands down.

Once again this isn’t my first choice but at this point simply trying to salvage the season because I believe the only chance we have right now is EQ and I’m not sold that is gonna happen. Believe it or not I am hoping but once again we’re in the “hope category”.

[bobblehead]

Finley broke his neck running a post though I thought?

So my point about him not being effective doing it stands.

[bobblehead]

I’m not hammering MVS. I’m simply being realistic of what he is. Your the one in fantasy land trying to bring up this “2nd year slump” comparison too D. Adams which quite frankly has gotten ridiculous. I’ve seen some Packer fans do this just about every year now with a handful of receivers that have all pretty much busted out or were blah.

The reality is none of them could carry Adams lunch and just weren’t as “Talented Football Players” as Adams. You can sit there and develop all you want but statistics prove 7th round Donald Drivers are much harder to find then a 2nd round D. Adams and the Packers have actually proved the statistic true over the last 10 years!!!

It’s simple Fucken math. Go look at the list of all the picks over the last 10 years.

As far as your big pipe dream MVS I’ll post it one more time for you. He is tight hipped and lacks explosion. Has average hands and lacks confidence at times is an issue. He is a long strider and has deep speed but takes a few step to get to top gear. Still not a great route runner and struggles against press coverage.

Best case scenario is a “Situational 3” where he can get matched favorably 1 on 1 and his long speed can be used to stretch the defense for potential big plays.

That’s where we’re at with this guy. Take it or leave it. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Oh, I admit, predicting a breakout BEFORE it happens is much harder than predicting (now) that Adams will be good despite his 2nd year slump.

As for draft status, also agree that 1sts have a better shot at being good, but your hero, antonio brown, disagrees.

[bobblehead]

I’m not hammering MVS. I’m simply being realistic of what he is. Your the one in fantasy land trying to bring up this “2nd year slump” comparison too D. Adams which quite frankly has gotten ridiculous. I’ve seen some Packer fans do this just about every year now with a handful of receivers that have all pretty much busted out or were blah.

The reality is none of them could carry Adams lunch and just weren’t as “Talented Football Players” as Adams. You can sit there and develop all you want but statistics prove 7th round Donald Drivers are much harder to find then a 2nd round D. Adams and the Packers have actually proved the statistic true over the last 10 years!!!

It’s simple Fucken math. Go look at the list of all the picks over the last 10 years.

As far as your big pipe dream MVS I’ll post it one more time for you. He is tight hipped and lacks explosion. Has average hands and lacks confidence at times is an issue. He is a long strider and has deep speed but takes a few step to get to top gear. Still not a great route runner and struggles against press coverage.

Best case scenario is a “Situational 3” where he can get matched favorably 1 on 1 and his long speed can be used to stretch the defense for potential big plays.

That’s where we’re at with this guy. Take it or leave it. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Now you are just making shit up. MVS had a significantly better short shuttle than Davante, so I think tight hipped is...well, like I said, you are just making shit up. I can't find MVS 10 yard split, but I bet it beats adams, negating your other point too.

[GB-Brandon]

Now you are just making shit up. MVS had a significantly better short shuttle than Davante, so I think tight hipped is...well, like I said, you are just making shit up. I can't find MVS 10 yard split, but I bet it beats adams, negating your other point too.

With MVS its's simply just watching his tape or in person at camp. He doesn't move well side to side or very fluid at all. He is more herky Jerky and takes rounded cuts. Take a trip to Lambeau and watch him if they actually let him on the field in the game. He can't beat press coverage. This dude has never really had any major production to speak of. He is just another really good athlete that isn't all that great of a football player.

Go buy his fucken Jersey!!

[GB-Brandon]

Oh, I admit, predicting a breakout BEFORE it happens is much harder than predicting (now) that Adams will be good despite his 2nd year slump.

As for draft status, also agree that 1sts have a better shot at being good, but your hero, antonio brown, disagrees.

Here is the bottom Line Man. All these posts. The draft. Training Camp. The games. The bets. Etc Etc Etc Potentially Comes down to 3 and 10 or maybe a 4-6 in January and a 50/50 ball needing to be caught in the air and converted. I want fucken want Antonio Brown being the guy attempting to catch that ball over you're PIPE DREAM HERO MVS who has never caught shit!!!

YOU GET IT NOW? IS IT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YA?

[GB-Brandon]

And all this bullshit about "Rodgers doesn't Throw enough slants" and "Rodgers Holds onto the ball to long" and "He has been missing wide open receivers" is the biggest bullshit that i have actually read since being on this forum. Its flat out disgusting. This dude is "THE ALL TIME NFL PASSING LEADER" so all this talk is just crazy. It just shows how spoiled some fans have gotten. Rodgers has covered so many warts from the front office to the coaching to the personnel that its to much to even start to list. People can chant "Raise the G" all they want but the fact is the "G" would be in the toiled bowl if it weren't for Rodgers for several years and that's a fact. So i really don't get all the nit picking.

Beyond the passer rating the amount of things he does for this team is just huge. How he see's things at the LOS and dissects and reads defenses. His ability to process is genius level. I've never seen anything like it and I've been around a lot of football. It's very sad he hasn't been able to get the support he deserves. Part of me really wants Gute's hand to be forced to take his little baby out of the incubator so that all these ungrateful fans can get a taste of whats coming.

[bobblehead]

Calm down Francis. MVS isn't my hero, just a guy who I think could be a big part of the answer at WR2. Personally I thought this WR class was way over rated, but I would have liked to grab a guy like Bryan Edwards to help out...but that wouldn't have fit your criteria as he was a 3rd round pick. The way it fell we never had a shot at the guys I liked where they went.

I hated the Love pick and the Gary pick. Trading back was the right move both times, but it wouldn't have solved our WR problem. I think the quartet of MVS, EQ, Begelton, or Lazard will prove to be adequate as the #2. Not sure which one, or maybe even it will be hot hand. Hard to say.

In the end, Camp is here and we get to watch it play out. I choose to enjoy the ride and bitch AFTER the season is a failure, not before. With that I won't debate the same points over and over with you again. We both have staked out our positions and time will tell. I think this offense will be very good because of Flower and Rodgers. I am actually more concerned with RT than WR, but I will dwell on that in the TC thread.

[run pMc]

No, he didn't. This post if pure fantasy. I have bitched for years that the TE beating the middle of the field has been gone since the days of Favre. Finley was mostly effective on the edges....same as Cook.

I think the strategy is to carpet bomb the site with posts to the point that nobody cares, or at least bothers to fact check.
Honestly, I'm not even sure what his point is anymore... except the Packers GM is hopeless, Rodgers is wasted (just like every other QB not named Brady), and the season is lost. Let's all give up and jump off a cliff.

[bobblehead]

I think the strategy is to carpet bomb the site with posts to the point that nobody cares, or at least bothers to fact check.
Honestly, I'm not even sure what his point is anymore... except the Packers GM is hopeless, Rodgers is wasted (just like every other QB not named Brady), and the season is lost. Let's all give up and jump off a cliff.

Yes, some people like that approach of carpet bomb bullshit and keep the other guy correcting you while you drop more bullshit and no one will be able to notice the points you are making because you spend all your time correcting.

It doesn't matter if I point out that MVS is a far superior athlete to D cuz its all about production, but then when I point out the years 1/2 production it doesn't matter cuz D has the it factor and you can't argue with "it". And draft status, but Brown was drafted later than MVS, but it doesn't matter cuz D is better than MVS NOW, so it doesn't matter what could happen cuz it hasn't yet.

[GB-Brandon]

Yes, some people like that approach of carpet bomb bullshit and keep the other guy correcting you while you drop more bullshit and no one will be able to notice the points you are making because you spend all your time correcting.

It doesn't matter if I point out that MVS is a far superior athlete to D cuz its all about production, but then when I point out the years 1/2 production it doesn't matter cuz D has the it factor and you can't argue with "it". And draft status, but Brown was drafted later than MVS, but it doesn't matter cuz D is better than MVS NOW, so it doesn't matter what could happen cuz it hasn't yet.


Just like it doesn’t seem to matter that I point out Adams doubled MVS’s production in college. I go to camp man and watch these guys. I watch the tape on these guys too and not just the highlight films. I wish I could say more but I can’t.

I’m not saying I’m the Bible of knowledge and I’m right about every little thing but I go on probabilities. It’s the same way I trade stocks and I win more then I lose in both avenues.

[GB-Brandon]

I think the strategy is to carpet bomb the site with posts to the point that nobody cares, or at least bothers to fact check.
Honestly, I'm not even sure what his point is anymore... except the Packers GM is hopeless, Rodgers is wasted (just like every other QB not named Brady), and the season is lost. Let's all give up and jump off a cliff.

The reality is the media is talking about these topics weekly and sometimes daily so I’m not making things up. You can’t just slide these things under the rug.

Sorry the truth hurts so bad. Better get used to it cause it’s just getting warmed up by the way things are going. Let’s be very clear!

I didn’t do any of this!!!!

[GB-Brandon]

I “HOPE” Lazard and EQ and MVS and Kumerow and Sternberger all make these amazing jumps and have more production then they have ever had in their football careers and it all finally clicks at the same time and they become the new “Fantastic Five” and we go win a Super Bowl etc etc. but the probabilities tell me it’s a pretty big long shot. Just sayin.

In fact I stoped doing those type of drugs a long time ago.

[GB-Brandon]

I think the strategy is to carpet bomb the site with posts to the point that nobody cares, or at least bothers to fact check.
Honestly, I'm not even sure what his point is anymore... except the Packers GM is hopeless, Rodgers is wasted (just like every other QB not named Brady), and the season is lost. Let's all give up and jump off a cliff.

I never said the season was lost. I have basically said they will win some games but that they are not a serious Super Bowl contender this year as they didn’t do anything to really improve. On top of that YES I’m very concerned about the future of the franchise moving forward.

[Upnorth]

I hope at least one of the wr make a big jump and the rest just progress a bit. That isnt a tall order. Mvs and eq both have flashed potential as has lizard to a lesser extent. I see potential for a couple #2's in that group, but any one expecting a return to driver Jennings nelson and James needs to get of the crack.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'd like to see Valdez-Scantling get a try as a kick off returner. I recall him taking that short pass, turning the corner at high speed, and off to the races. It's too long since we had a real burner who was a threat to take a kick off all the way.

[bobblehead]

I never said the season was lost. I have basically said they will win some games but that they are not a serious Super Bowl contender this year as they didn’t do anything to really improve. On top of that YES I’m very concerned about the future of the franchise moving forward.
So who, in your expert opinion, are serious super bowl contenders?

[call_me_ishmael]

Niners
Seahawks
Saints
Philly
Dallas

KC
Indy
Houston
Buffalo
Tennessee
Baltimore
Pittsburgh

Lots of teams at or above the Packers talent level IMO.

[bobblehead]

Niners
Seahawks
Saints
Philly
Dallas

KC
Indy
Houston
Buffalo
Tennessee
Baltimore
Pittsburgh

Lots of teams at or above the Packers talent level IMO.

You missed a big one...besides the packers.

Look, I'm not predicting an Owl here, I just find it impossible to believe that you can put 2 NFC teams with a combined 17-15 record as serious contenders, but leave the packers off. Then in the AFC Houston has the worst coach in the NFL and only won 10 games WITH Deandre Hopkins. The colts weren't even a .500 team last year and have several question marks.

And I'm not saying that means these teams are NOT serious contenders, I just mean to point out that saying they are but the packers are not is a joke.

Still waiting for Brandons extensive list of teams that are clearly better than the packers. It gets kind of tricky when you have to name them. When you marry yourself to the idea that we aren't serious contenders, but then you have to name all the many teams that clearly are. You end up with a list of teams that clearly are inferior to GB. Teams that we punked just 7 months ago. If you don't do that you end up with like 2 teams, which in the NFL we all know that in all probability won't play like you think they will.

[GB-Brandon]

Niners
Seahawks
Saints
Philly
Dallas

KC
Indy
Houston
Buffalo
Tennessee
Baltimore
Pittsburgh

Lots of teams at or above the Packers talent level IMO.

I would probably take Pittsburgh off this list and add Tampa Bay. Just not sold on Pittsburgh. I also wouldn’t put Indy on the list.

All of these teams doing things and being aggressive making moves to get better to “WIN NOW.”

Once again the Packers “Have a Chance” like anybody else but Doing very little if anything to get better other then hoping low budget/ low level players make gigantic leaps which rarely happens so I’m once again following the probabilities.

[texaspackerbacker]

Since he put "at or above", I suppose a lot of those teams merit being there, although I'd delete about half or more of them myself. If the standard is better or above the Packers talent level, though, it wouldn't go beyond the Niners, the Chiefs, and maybe the Cowboys.

[GB-Brandon]

You missed a big one...besides the packers.

Look, I'm not predicting an Owl here, I just find it impossible to believe that you can put 2 NFC teams with a combined 17-15 record as serious contenders, but leave the packers off. Then in the AFC Houston has the worst coach in the NFL and only won 10 games WITH Deandre Hopkins. The colts weren't even a .500 team last year and have several question marks.

And I'm not saying that means these teams are NOT serious contenders, I just mean to point out that saying they are but the packers are not is a joke.

Still waiting for Brandons extensive list of teams that are clearly better than the packers. It gets kind of tricky when you have to name them. When you marry yourself to the idea that we aren't serious contenders, but then you have to name all the many teams that clearly are. You end up with a list of teams that clearly are inferior to GB. Teams that we punked just 7 months ago. If you don't do that you end up with like 2 teams, which in the NFL we all know that in all probability won't play like you think they will.


Here we go again. The sensitivity level is a bit much. Nobody has said the Packers will be a joke in 2020 if Rodgers stays healthy. I have said over and over again that the Packers will win some games and compete. They have a bunch of talent on the roster no doubt at key positions. I "have said" Brian Gutekunst is a "joke" and stand behind that. IMO the off-season has been a disaster in regards to filling out this roster and making this a team a legit Super Bowl contender. So we can do lists and this and that etc etc but at the end of the day Gute didn't get it done to do everything possible on the that end to make the necessary moves to push this team over the top.

Can we get "LUCKY?" SURE, but that's now how were supposed to be rolling around here!!!! Certainly not with a 36 YO Aaron Rodgers!!

[GB-Brandon]

Could you imagine Rodgers in a Bruce Arians offense with mass vertical weapons? That would definitely be worth the price of admission.

[bobblehead]

Here we go again. The sensitivity level is a bit much. Nobody has said the Packers will be a joke in 2020 if Rodgers stays healthy. I have said over and over again that the Packers will win some games and compete. They have a bunch of talent on the roster no doubt at key positions. I "have said" Brian Gutekunst is a "joke" and stand behind that. IMO the off-season has been a disaster in regards to filling out this roster and making this a team a legit Super Bowl contender. So we can do lists and this and that etc etc but at the end of the day Gute didn't get it done to do everything possible on the that end to make the necessary moves to push this team over the top.

Can we get "LUCKY?" SURE, but that's now how were supposed to be rolling around here!!!! Certainly not with a 36 YO Aaron Rodgers!!

Sensitivity? Are you reading a bit more into this than there is. You said the packers are NOT a serious super bowl contender. I said to name the serious contenders. Now you are hedging and saying they "have a chance". So I ask you one more time. Who are the teams that have a legit shot if the packers are not a serious contender. Simple question.

But I give you credit for nailing the team Tex left out. Tampa Bay has gotten 100% better at QB and with all those weapons they are a contender.

[GB-Brandon]

Sensitivity? Are you reading a bit more into this than there is. You said the packers are NOT a serious super bowl contender. I said to name the serious contenders. Now you are hedging and saying they "have a chance". So I ask you one more time. Who are the teams that have a legit shot if the packers are not a serious contender. Simple question.

But I give you credit for nailing the team Tex left out. Tampa Bay has gotten 100% better at QB and with all those weapons they are a contender.

I am not "Hedging Anything." I understand you enamored with list's and such and will provide that list as soon as I can as still working on some things. However; I have remained pretty consistent in regards to the Packers in regards to their "Chances." As long a Rodgers stays healthy I expect them to win some games and compete for the NFC North but falling short of a Super Bowl yet again. That's Become "The MO." This is mostly because they have a GM that lacks vision and direction and Doesn't have the NUTS to make the necessary moves to force the hand!!!

Now next year "The Wheels Fall Off" cause Rodgers has had about enough of this SHIT!!!!!

[run pMc]

Are they a legit contender, or was getting to the NFCCG last year a fluke? If they are so close then Gute et al., can't be wasting Rodgers.
(Digression: Drew Brees was basically a .500 QB from 2012-2016 seasons. Marino had several .500 seasons with MIA. Point is, being a very good franchise QB doesn't guarantee getting to the NFCCG, much less a SB.)

It's not like Rodgers is languishing on a 4 win team, keeping the seat warm for Jordan Love to start by mid-season. Last year GB won 4 straight without their #1 WR (Adams), and this year I'd argue they should be better by getting rid of Graham and Allison and adding ESB, Begelton, and using the young TEs more. Adding Dillon and those OL picks feels like they want to bolster the running game, which should be better in year 2 of MLF offense.

Many people would argue they lost the NFCCG because of their run defense, not their offense. I'm not sure they improved there.

[Upnorth]

Are they a legit contender, or was getting to the NFCCG last year a fluke? If they are so close then Gute et al., can't be wasting Rodgers.
(Digression: Drew Brees was basically a .500 QB from 2012-2016 seasons. Marino had several .500 seasons with MIA. Point is, being a very good franchise QB doesn't guarantee getting to the NFCCG, much less a SB.)

It's not like Rodgers is languishing on a 4 win team, keeping the seat warm for Jordan Love to start by mid-season. Last year GB won 4 straight without their #1 WR (Adams), and this year I'd argue they should be better by getting rid of Graham and Allison and adding ESB, Begelton, and using the young TEs more. Adding Dillon and those OL picks feels like they want to bolster the running game, which should be better in year 2 of MLF offense.

Many people would argue they lost the NFCCG because of their run defense, not their offense. I'm not sure they improved there.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. Gotta hope Kinsley gary and our fa ilb (cant remeber his name right now) need to be the run support we need.

[GB-Brandon]

Are they a legit contender, or was getting to the NFCCG last year a fluke? If they are so close then Gute et al., can't be wasting Rodgers.
(Digression: Drew Brees was basically a .500 QB from 2012-2016 seasons. Marino had several .500 seasons with MIA. Point is, being a very good franchise QB doesn't guarantee getting to the NFCCG, much less a SB.)

It's not like Rodgers is languishing on a 4 win team, keeping the seat warm for Jordan Love to start by mid-season. Last year GB won 4 straight without their #1 WR (Adams), and this year I'd argue they should be better by getting rid of Graham and Allison and adding ESB, Begelton, and using the young TEs more. Adding Dillon and those OL picks feels like they want to bolster the running game, which should be better in year 2 of MLF offense.

Many people would argue they lost the NFCCG because of their run defense, not their offense. I'm not sure they improved there.

I would argue they lost that game due to Mike Pettine and having a poor game plan and not having the defense ready and not being able to adjust in-game as well. Yet he is still around.

I don't know. Maybe they can push some kind of 4-3 scheme now. You slide Gary down inside next to KC. You got the Smith's on the edge. Burks is apparently in the mid 240's now and is stronger. You got Kirskey and Kamal Martin to play LB now.

Amos would be a perfect 4-3 safety and Josh Jackson as your 4-3 Nickel

Maybe they can be 4-3/3-4 versatile which allows them to match up better against the Niners of the world but also play their schemes they did last year against normal teams.

Even with that I still think once injuries set in that their gonna need another weapon on offense so well see.

[bobblehead]

I am not "Hedging Anything." I understand you enamored with list's and such and will provide that list as soon as I can as still working on some things. However; I have remained pretty consistent in regards to the Packers in regards to their "Chances." As long a Rodgers stays healthy I expect them to win some games and compete for the NFC North but falling short of a Super Bowl yet again. That's Become "The MO." This is mostly because they have a GM that lacks vision and direction and Doesn't have the NUTS to make the necessary moves to force the hand!!!

Now next year "The Wheels Fall Off" cause Rodgers has had about enough of this SHIT!!!!!

You are reinforcing my point. I say the packers are right there with SF, SEA, TB, DAL, NO. But here is the rub. I don't have your ego thinking I can tell you for fact who isn't a serious contender. Things happen. I can see a world where LA, PHI, MN, all could potentially wind up in the Owl.

See guys like you that think "if we just shore up that one thing...2nd WR then we will win it all" are almost always wrong. Your team is NEVER one player away. We could add Julio Jones for nothing and still fall far short with just a little bad luck. Its a big picture and selling out usually accomplishes 2 things. One you still fall short and 2 you hinder all future chances. So if you see a QB you have ranked as a top 5 or 10 talent slip to 25 there is nothing wrong with going up to get him. BPA always and every time. Build the best deepest roster you can and MAYBE you can get an owl, but when you sell out you HAVE to be right. Gutes has to be right on Savage and Love right now. He had to be right on his FA moves last year. There is nothing wrong with our WR as a whole. I would have like to add a Shenault or Edwards. I'm also realistic in knowing either of those guys could flop and Love could wind up an All Pro.

You somehow have it in your mind we aren't a serious contender. I ask you who is? I would bet that your "short list" will be lucky to have the NFC team in the Owl. If you start a LONG list you will have a shot, but if its a long list then the Pack HAS to be on it or you just aren't being honest.

[bobblehead]

Are they a legit contender, or was getting to the NFCCG last year a fluke? If they are so close then Gute et al., can't be wasting Rodgers.
(Digression: Drew Brees was basically a .500 QB from 2012-2016 seasons. Marino had several .500 seasons with MIA. Point is, being a very good franchise QB doesn't guarantee getting to the NFCCG, much less a SB.)

It's not like Rodgers is languishing on a 4 win team, keeping the seat warm for Jordan Love to start by mid-season. Last year GB won 4 straight without their #1 WR (Adams), and this year I'd argue they should be better by getting rid of Graham and Allison and adding ESB, Begelton, and using the young TEs more. Adding Dillon and those OL picks feels like they want to bolster the running game, which should be better in year 2 of MLF offense.

Many people would argue they lost the NFCCG because of their run defense, not their offense. I'm not sure they improved there.

Excellent post.

[GB-Brandon]

You are reinforcing my point. I say the packers are right there with SF, SEA, TB, DAL, NO. But here is the rub. I don't have your ego thinking I can tell you for fact who isn't a serious contender. Things happen. I can see a world where LA, PHI, MN, all could potentially wind up in the Owl.

See guys like you that think "if we just shore up that one thing...2nd WR then we will win it all" are almost always wrong. Your team is NEVER one player away. We could add Julio Jones for nothing and still fall far short with just a little bad luck. Its a big picture and selling out usually accomplishes 2 things. One you still fall short and 2 you hinder all future chances. So if you see a QB you have ranked as a top 5 or 10 talent slip to 25 there is nothing wrong with going up to get him. BPA always and every time. Build the best deepest roster you can and MAYBE you can get an owl, but when you sell out you HAVE to be right. Gutes has to be right on Savage and Love right now. He had to be right on his FA moves last year. There is nothing wrong with our WR as a whole. I would have like to add a Shenault or Edwards. I'm also realistic in knowing either of those guys could flop and Love could wind up an All Pro.

You somehow have it in your mind we aren't a serious contender. I ask you who is? I would bet that your "short list" will be lucky to have the NFC team in the Owl. If you start a LONG list you will have a shot, but if its a long list then the Pack HAS to be on it or you just aren't being honest.

I live in a world that you go ALL IN every year you have a 30 PLUS YEAR OLD HOF QB knocking on the door. Getting those last 2-3 pieces does not guarantee a championship but once again it puts the PROBABILITIES more in your favor. At the very least at the end of the day you can look at your fan base and say we did everything we could.

The Packers can’t say that right now to their fan base so get over it. Quit making it more then it is.

[run pMc]

I think it depends on what "going ALL IN" looks like.
With a falling cap next year, draft picks are going to be more important.
Does going all in mean pulling a Dan Snyder and trying to sign every big name vet on the street? That didn't work so good for him, and GB never really operated that way, so I'm not sure that's going to happen. Does going all in mean trading away next year's picks for players this year?

I think the team should absolutely try to assemble talent, explore its options and weigh the benefits of actions. I would be shocked if the GM doesn't do that. I also think his idea of being aggressive and going "ALL IN" are different from yours.

Like you, I would have loved to see Gute pick a WR early in the draft. I'm stunned he didn't draft one at all. They didn't draft a WR last year either, which is baffling, but somehow they've gotten by. I do think they are overdue and it could be a problem down the road. Recent picks from the TT era (Montgomery, Davis, Yancey, or Dupre) didn't exactly work out. Actually, they've been pretty rotten at WR since the 2017 season with Adams and the Ghosts of Cobb and Nelson.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/2017.htm

So if you're complaining about WR, it's not a new thing, and in fact Gute tried to address it in 2018 draft with Moore, MVS and ESB with iffy results. I'd expect him to readdress it soon, but I've been surprised by him plenty.

[GB-Brandon]

I think it depends on what "going ALL IN" looks like.
With a falling cap next year, draft picks are going to be more important.
Does going all in mean pulling a Dan Snyder and trying to sign every big name vet on the street? That didn't work so good for him, and GB never really operated that way, so I'm not sure that's going to happen. Does going all in mean trading away next year's picks for players this year?

I think the team should absolutely try to assemble talent, explore its options and weigh the benefits of actions. I would be shocked if the GM doesn't do that. I also think his idea of being aggressive and going "ALL IN" are different from yours.

Like you, I would have loved to see Gute pick a WR early in the draft. I'm stunned he didn't draft one at all. They didn't draft a WR last year either, which is baffling, but somehow they've gotten by. I do think they are overdue and it could be a problem down the road. Recent picks from the TT era (Montgomery, Davis, Yancey, or Dupre) didn't exactly work out. Actually, they've been pretty rotten at WR since the 2017 season with Adams and the Ghosts of Cobb and Nelson.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/2017.htm

So if you're complaining about WR, it's not a new thing, and in fact Gute tried to address it in 2018 draft with Moore, MVS and ESB with iffy results. I'd expect him to readdress it soon, but I've been surprised by him plenty.



Yeah because, "That's what I said Right?"

I love the overplay of it. The "You want to mortgage the precious cap and go crazy and have all-pro's at every position". "WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE $$$$$$!!!!" OMG!!!!!!!

Actually Gute is the one that went out mortgaged the cap last year on free agents and it turned out pretty good so lets get it straight.

I've thoroughly explained what I have meant. Leveraging the cap is part of it but also clearing cap space from other areas is another to make room. The Packers remain 13 million under the cap after re-signing Clark. I don't see any reason to save this much but I am also not advocating to spend every penny of it. Somewhere in the middle or at least what they were gonna spend on Funches would seem appropriate at this time.

My main issue is not putting "NEEDS FIRST" with such a team and a roster in a prime time window to win a Super Bowl. This can be done "Through the Draft." It can be done "Via Trade" as well as "Free Agency" or through a combination of those things. I really don't care how they choose to get it done. Other teams are doing it so I don't want to hear that this is such a crazy practice. Whats crazy is that Gute has shown he has no problem gambling for certain things but for some reason he has massive resistance gambling on others. I am seriously starting to believe there is something more to this because it just doesn't add up. Unless these receivers come out and make me look like a fool this whole thing is a giant fraud cause it stinks. There has been criticism literally from every direction and he has heard it. Same with the issues on defense.

So once again for me it comes down to PROBABILITIES. I will gladly give up a chance to re-sign a certain player(note I said "certain") or possibly a certain draft pick(note I said "certain") for a SIGNIFICANT HIGHER PROBABILITY to WIN THE ULTIMATE PRIZE!!

After all isn't that what this is all about? Or is just to put on a good show and go through the motions?

[GB-Brandon]

You are reinforcing my point. I say the packers are right there with SF, SEA, TB, DAL, NO. But here is the rub. I don't have your ego thinking I can tell you for fact who isn't a serious contender. Things happen. I can see a world where LA, PHI, MN, all could potentially wind up in the Owl.

See guys like you that think "if we just shore up that one thing...2nd WR then we will win it all" are almost always wrong. Your team is NEVER one player away. We could add Julio Jones for nothing and still fall far short with just a little bad luck. Its a big picture and selling out usually accomplishes 2 things. One you still fall short and 2 you hinder all future chances. So if you see a QB you have ranked as a top 5 or 10 talent slip to 25 there is nothing wrong with going up to get him. BPA always and every time. Build the best deepest roster you can and MAYBE you can get an owl, but when you sell out you HAVE to be right. Gutes has to be right on Savage and Love right now. He had to be right on his FA moves last year. There is nothing wrong with our WR as a whole. I would have like to add a Shenault or Edwards. I'm also realistic in knowing either of those guys could flop and Love could wind up an All Pro.

You somehow have it in your mind we aren't a serious contender. I ask you who is? I would bet that your "short list" will be lucky to have the NFC team in the Owl. If you start a LONG list you will have a shot, but if its a long list then the Pack HAS to be on it or you just aren't being honest.

I Completed my evaluation of the Seahawks today and as far as I am concerned you can take them off the list. They aren't winning no Super Bowl this year and probably won't even make the playoffs. Big drop off this year for Seattle and I have them finishing 3rd in their division.

[bobblehead]

I live in a world that you go ALL IN every year you have a 30 PLUS YEAR OLD HOF QB knocking on the door. Getting those last 2-3 pieces does not guarantee a championship but once again it puts the PROBABILITIES more in your favor. At the very least at the end of the day you can look at your fan base and say we did everything we could.

The Packers can’t say that right now to their fan base so get over it. Quit making it more then it is.

I'm making it exactly what it is. You won't give me your short list, but the packers are not on it. You have nothing but bitching and whining.

[bobblehead]

Yeah because, "That's what I said Right?"

I love the overplay of it. The "You want to mortgage the precious cap and go crazy and have all-pro's at every position". "WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE $$$$$$!!!!" OMG!!!!!!!

Actually Gute is the one that went out mortgaged the cap last year on free agents and it turned out pretty good so lets get it straight.


Did it turn out? We spent most on D and we got run over in the NFCC, and the lone OL we spent on is spotty at best. He is an ok guard, but we paid him like a very good guard. Amos was probably overpaid based on last year as well. 2 out of 4 ain't bad i guess....unless you paid top dollar.

[bobblehead]

Unless these receivers come out and make me look like a fool this whole thing is a giant fraud cause it stinks.

Make no mistake. You don't need the WR room to help you in this regard.

[bobblehead]

I Completed my evaluation of the Seahawks today and as far as I am concerned you can take them off the list. They aren't winning no Super Bowl this year and probably won't even make the playoffs. Big drop off this year for Seattle and I have them finishing 3rd in their division.

So who is oh great one? Still waiting for the short list. 3 teams, packers aren't serious contenders. which 3 are?

Edit: Oh, but the seahawks took the guy you would have taken with our trade up. Was it a bad move? They were 6" from the division over SF last year and took your chosen top player. Why are they not a contender now?

[GB-Brandon]

So who is oh great one? Still waiting for the short list. 3 teams, packers aren't serious contenders. which 3 are?

Edit: Oh, but the seahawks took the guy you would have taken with our trade up. Was it a bad move? They were 6" from the division over SF last year and took your chosen top player. Why are they not a contender now?

Too many problems on the offensive and defensive lines. Zero pass rush. Too much age on the roster. Age = Injuries. One Rb coming off a fractured hip and the other coming off a torn ACL. I think this will be the end of the Pete Carroll era.

Wilson is gonna be 32 so he is certainly not a spring chicken anymore himself. He will have to win MVP to get this team into the playoffs. I don't see it. After Metcalf and Lockett they have their own receiver issues.

Packers have the better roster from top to bottom. The Seahawks and Packers both over-achieved last season. I see a little more hope for the Packers.

[bobblehead]

Too many problems on the offensive and defensive lines. Zero pass rush. Too much age on the roster. Age = Injuries. One Rb coming off a fractured hip and the other coming off a torn ACL. I think this will be the end of the Pete Carroll era.

Wilson is gonna be 32 so he is certainly not a spring chicken anymore himself. He will have to win MVP to get this team into the playoffs. I don't see it. After Metcalf and Lockett they have their own receiver issues.

Packers have the better roster from top to bottom. The Seahawks and Packers both over-achieved last season. I see a little more hope for the Packers.

I'll push this until opening kickoff. You are narrowing it down. Seahawks and packers are NOT serious contenders. Haven't seen you list ONE single team that is. You alluded to it. Give me a list of serious NFC contenders to win an Owl this year....or is it fixed and you guarantee that SF wins it because "rigged".

[GB-Brandon]

I'll push this until opening kickoff. You are narrowing it down. Seahawks and packers are NOT serious contenders. Haven't seen you list ONE single team that is. You alluded to it. Give me a list of serious NFC contenders to win an Owl this year....or is it fixed and you guarantee that SF wins it because "rigged".

San Francisco
Tampa Bay
New Orleans
Dallas
Philadelphia

I would put all those teams rosters ahead of the Packers right now and legit contenders in the NFC. They have all done a much better job filling holes and fielding a roster to win a Championship this year.

[bobblehead]

San Francisco
Tampa Bay
New Orleans
Dallas
Philadelphia

I would put all those teams rosters ahead of the Packers right now and legit contenders in the NFC. They have all done a much better job filling holes and fielding a roster to win a Championship this year.

Thank you. Tampa's roster isn't that good on D. Overall they are inferior to ours imo. Philadelphia also doesn't enamor me. Dallas is loaded. N.O. is pretty stellar. SF is stacked as well. HOWEVER, we have a better QB than 2 of those 3 teams, so really I only like N.O. Better than GB overall, and they have managed to screw up 2 playoffs in a row.

[RashanGary]

Thank you. Tampa's roster isn't that good on D. Overall they are inferior to ours imo. Philadelphia also doesn't enamor me. Dallas is loaded. N.O. is pretty stellar. SF is stacked as well. HOWEVER, we have a better QB than 2 of those 3 teams, so really I only like N.O. Better than GB overall, and they have managed to screw up 2 playoffs in a row.

Um, Brees fell off bad even before the injury. He’s manning at the end now. Rodgers is clearly better than all 3

[RashanGary]

Something weird happens at the end for these QBs... their release looks in slow motion. Favres last year, Manning’s last two, brees last year and Brady too. It’s over for Brees and Brady IMO.

[RashanGary]

A lot can be said for simple things like snap count, tempo, decision making and a general feel for football that makes life easier for the whole team. Even though I consider those game manager qualities to be on par with arm talent as it pertains to winning, it’s still not enough when you’re competing against guys like Rodgers and Wilson who have it all still. And guys like Jackson and Mahommes who ate quickly getting there plus elite physical talent.

[Upnorth]

San Francisco
Tampa Bay
New Orleans
Dallas
Philadelphia

I would put all those teams rosters ahead of the Packers right now and legit contenders in the NFC. They have all done a much better job filling holes and fielding a roster to win a Championship this year.

Sf and no are both better than us I think however we definitely took the right steps to close with no.
I think we match up with philly better than last year. Tb is interesting but there new qb doesn't really fit ariens down field game anymore and I don't think they are in the playoff hunt.
Dallas is a bit of a wild card with McCarthy. They do concern me but im more concerned with Detroit than Dallas.

[GB-Brandon]

Sf and no are both better than us I think however we definitely took the right steps to close with no.
I think we match up with philly better than last year. Tb is interesting but there new qb doesn't really fit ariens down field game anymore and I don't think they are in the playoff hunt.
Dallas is a bit of a wild card with McCarthy. They do concern me but im more concerned with Detroit than Dallas.

Dallas could very well be getting ready to sign Earl Thomas too.

Detroit Should be a concern. I've seen their roster ranked as high as 12th in the league and they have played the Packers extremely tough. I have them as my sleeper.

[Upnorth]

List of nfcn playoff teams are GB no SF dal as division winners with det and ari as wild cards.

[Bretsky]

Um, Brees fell off bad even before the injury. He’s manning at the end now. Rodgers is clearly better than all 3


Last year Rodgers was to me not nearly as good as past years.

Whether that is him falling off , or not getting surrounded with help is debateable

[texaspackerbacker]

hahahahaha Yet we went 13-3. I do sort of agree with you, though, based on appearances - one reason I expect this year's team and record to be at least as good as last year's.

[bobblehead]

Um, Brees fell off bad even before the injury. He’s manning at the end now. Rodgers is clearly better than all 3

Brees QBR from ESPN crushed Rodgers 71 to 50. Standard rating was 116 to 95. Honestly it wasn't even close. Brees was 2nd to Tannehill and Rodgers was 12th.

[RashanGary]

Brees QBR from ESPN crushed Rodgers 71 to 50. Standard rating was 116 to 95. Honestly it wasn't even close. Brees was 2nd to Tannehill and Rodgers was 12th.

That's why I watch football and don't look at those types of stats. That's just a useless QB rating scale. Period.

[bobblehead]

That's why I watch football and don't look at those types of stats. That's just a useless QB rating scale. Period.

Production isn't useless.

[RashanGary]

Production isn't useless.

The production equation isn’t QB Production = QB effectiveness. The QBs production is a long equation that includes OL, WR, TE and RB play as well as QB play. So absolutely, production is an awful measure. The score is in that equation too. It’s so much more than whatever stat you’re pulling. I watched both with my eyes. I have no doubt Rodgers is significantly better no matter what that equation says.

[RashanGary]

Mahommes, Jackson, Wilson and Rodgers are the best QBs in the game right now. My stat? I watched almost every NFL football game and I don’t use stats.

[run pMc]

I'd say wins a good stat too. I don't believe you can boil it down to one number, but I will say the traditional QB Rating (not the ESPN) often tells a pretty good story of how a QB is performing. Trouble is, where a 95+ rating would be amazing 10 years ago it's pretty ho-hum now.

If you go by just last season, there were a number of QBs who played better than Rodgers. They may not be better players, however. Don't confuse the two.

Will be curious to see if the young WRs can pick it up. Lazard, EQ and MVS especially. The news of the secondary playing well makes me wonder if that's actually true, or if the WRs stink.

[Upnorth]

I have a pet peeve when people equate wins to qb quality. While they have a large influence compared to any other position they don't win games by themselves.

[bobblehead]

Mahommes, Jackson, Wilson and Rodgers are the best QBs in the game right now. My stat? I watched almost every NFL football game and I don’t use stats.

I still think Rodgers is awesome. Top 5 or 6. I just think Brees is a bit better at this stage. The injuries have taken a toll on Rodgers. His deep ball was off last year and he doesn't seem as motivated in reading a D as he once was. It happens to a lot of great ones. Hopefully he had an offseason to reboot and comes back ready to play ball. Hopefully making the NFCC after 2 dismal seasons is a recharge.

[bobblehead]

For the record I think Maholmes is in a league of his own atm, and then the cluster behind him of really good almost great is Wilson, Rodgers, Brees, Jackson.

Then there is a tier of older guys who are not quite what they were in Brady, Rivers. That tier is mixed with solid veterans like Ryan, Prescott, Watson, Wentz, Stafford.

I don't think you should be paying tier 2 like tier 1. Its a world of difference. Then there is the tier I would NEVER pay. Tannehill, Goff, Cousins.Carr, Garropolo.

I missed some names, but you get the picture.

[theeaterofshades]

If Rodgers really did find something from watching old tapes and fixed it, then I forsee a big year for Davante, EQ, Lazard, and maybe MVS if he fixed his hands issue. Beagleton, and Kumerow depend on packages used/injuries.

[bobblehead]

If Rodgers really did find something from watching old tapes and fixed it, then I forsee a big year for Davante, EQ, Lazard, and maybe MVS if he fixed his hands issue. Beagleton, and Kumerow depend on packages used/injuries.

agreed

[RashanGary]

I have all but give up on MVS after his ho hum second season. He’s a third year player. For the first two years he was learning a new offense. The WR coach spoke to the media a couple days ago. He gave a couple examples of route details MVS does now that he didn’t do last year and how the difference is, that the QB knows where he is going to be now and last year he’s run routes that got open but the QB couldn’t find him because he wasn’t where he was supposed to be.


Hearing that, hearing the camp praise and seemingly daily success..... there is a good chance both MVS and Lazard make huge leaps. Might be a monster year for Rodgers and the talented up and coming receivers!

With the veteran OL
The superstar QB
The star RB and deep stable behind him
The athletic up and coming TE

And

Clearly the best defense and STs since 2010.....

Yeah, I like our Super Bowl chances this year.

[Upnorth]

I have all but give up on MVS after his ho hum second season. He’s a third year player. For the first two years he was learning a new offense. The WR coach spoke to the media a couple days ago. He gave a couple examples of route details MVS does now that he didn’t do last year and how the difference is, that the QB knows where he is going to be now and last year he’s run routes that got open but the QB couldn’t find him because he wasn’t where he was supposed to be.


Hearing that, hearing the camp praise and seemingly daily success..... there is a good chance both MVS and Lazard make huge leaps. Might be a monster year for Rodgers and the talented up and coming receivers!

With the veteran OL
The superstar QB
The star RB and deep stable behind him
The athletic up and coming TE

And

Clearly the best defense and STs since 2010.....

Yeah, I like our Super Bowl chances this year.oh yeah

[Bretsky]

I think Rodgers is about top 5ish

It's crazy that in the last half of 2019 AROD averages less than 210 passing yards a game.

Then again, it kinda make sense. When he led the Tennessee offense they were 27th in scoring and 30th in passing. And GB hasn't put a priority on getting AROD weapons.

We've become a run first team, and must of last year AROD was a very good game manager...not his fault....but it is what it is.

[RashanGary]

I know I value game managers way more than most football fans. Rodgers wasn’t a good game manager, he was a HOF level, rare field general and he still made some magic too. AR had an amazing first season in a new offense. I couldn’t be happier with the QB we have.

[Bretsky]

I know I value game managers way more than most football fans. Rodgers wasn’t a good game manager, he was a HOF level, rare field general and he still made some magic too. AR had an amazing first season in a new offense. I couldn’t be happier with the QB we have.


I think Rodgers is a great game manager.

And he's also the most under utilized QB in the NFL because of the circumstances he's in

[RashanGary]

The multichampionship QBs were all similar in that they could throw the ball to just about any spot and they were great game managers. I think that’s the most underrated quality in football. People talk about the greatest compliment like it’s a knock.

[RashanGary]

Lamar Jackson has some really high upside with his game management. I’m always shocked how in control he is in tough situations. Dude is gonna be HOF. Fo sho

[RashanGary]

Jackson struggles with a few types of throws but makes up for it with his legs. The game manager quality is what makes him different than the running QBs before him

[texaspackerbacker]

The "game management" aspect IMO is more a matter of coaching than the natural characteristics of the QB. Would Bart Starr have been what he was without a coach like Lombardi? Favre without Holmgren? Brady without Belichek? Aikman without Jimmy Johnson? Montana and Young without Walsh? And even Rodgers without (like him or not) McCarthy? Not that they woulda been a bunch of Jeff Georges, but less than what they were for sure.

I'll be interested to see what McCarthy can do with the often-maligned Dak Prescott - who I have a higher opinion of than a lot of people.

[RashanGary]

MVS having a huge camp. Catching a lot more short passes, outs, crossers. His WR coach said he’s more detailed on his routes so the QB can count on where he’s gonna be. Gonna be a great competition between 13 and 83. I have a feeling we have one of the best WRs in the NFL with Adams and two of the better #2s in the league. Might be completely opposite of the off seasons doom and gloom scenarios. Might be a glaring strength.

[RashanGary]

Rodgers
Boss receivers
Boss running backs
Quality veteran OL

IF Jenn Stergberger and the Italian meathead can bring some versatility, athleticism and production to the TE/FB/Hback positions, we could have the best offense in the league :)

[RashanGary]

Gary also having a huge camp, this year vs the starters compared to last year against backups. McCarren says he’s a guy who can lineup and legit win 1 on 1s.

Z, Clark, Gary and P on third down. Uh oh Cousins. Not a good day for you bud.

[RashanGary]

Unexpected Camp positives

Starting Secondary
Sullivan
Gary
Kirksey
Keke

Lane Taylor
Jamal Williams
Lizard
MVS
Rodgers on fire
OL cohesion

[Upnorth]

Unexpected Camp positives

Starting Secondary
Sullivan
Gary
Kirksey
Keke

Lane Taylor
Jamal Williams
Lizard
MVS
Rodgers on fire
OL cohesion

So in the wr thread in an optimistic post the wrs arent mentioned until the 8th and 9th spot... Don't know if that is a good thing

[GB-Brandon]

It’s really tough to say about any of this. Weird camp and weird year. Getting close to seeing it finally on the field in a real game situation with full go action and hitting all the way to the ground.

My concerns remain the same and I never doubted Rodgers for second.

[bobblehead]

San Francisco edit: LOST TO A TEAM THAT IS ONE YEAR REMOVED FROM #1 PICK
Tampa Bay LOST
New Orleans WON
Dallas LOST
Philadelphia LOST

I would put all those teams rosters ahead of the Packers right now and legit contenders in the NFC. They have all done a much better job filling holes and fielding a roster to win a Championship this year.

They all looked a lot better than the packers!!!!

Worse yet, 3 of your elite 5 lost to teams that missed the playoffs last year.

[GB-Brandon]

They all looked a lot better than the packers!!!!

Worse yet, 3 of your elite 5 lost to teams that missed the playoffs last year.

Well I’m not ready to write all those teams off after week 1 like you are.

Let’s at least give it a month or so. Ya think?

[bobblehead]

Well I’m not ready to write all those teams off after week 1 like you are.

Let’s at least give it a month or so. Ya think?

Agree. But can we also agree that the Packers looked like a "serious contender" every bit as much as any of these teams? See, speaking in absolutes like you tend to do makes it really hard!!

[texaspackerbacker]

As I have said, the whole NFC other than the Packers is kinda down this season, maybe the whole NFL beyond KC and Baltimore.

It's doubtful that most on Brandon's list actually do have better rosters than us - maybe only the Niners, maybe not even them.

[GB-Brandon]

As I have said, the whole NFC other than the Packers is kinda down this season, maybe the whole NFL beyond KC and Baltimore.

It's doubtful that most on Brandon's list actually do have better rosters than us - maybe only the Niners, maybe not even them.

There is zero evidence of any improvement from the Packers overall roster at this time. In fact defensively you have serious question marks regarding several areas based on the same sample size that your making this assumption with other teams. Offensively it will be a miracle if this OL holds up at this rate of attrition. Nothing has been proven outside of Adams yet in regards to weapons!!!!

All that’s been proven is Aaron Rodgers Is still an elite QB which some jackass’s around here and possibly the Packers front office thought he wasn’t anymore!!!

Now everyone wants to act like it’s all good and bizz as usual.

[texaspackerbacker]

Yeah, not much evidence of improvement in personnel from that 13-3 team hahahahaha. The improvement comes from players we already had - obviously. I'm with you and always have been about Rodgers.

Coaching needs to clean up some things on D, then maybe some evidence will show up.

My point, though, was that just about everybody else has gotten worse.

[GB-Brandon]

Yeah, not much evidence of improvement in personnel from that 13-3 team hahahahaha. The improvement comes from players we already had - obviously. I'm with you and always have been about Rodgers.

Coaching needs to clean up some things on D, then maybe some evidence will show up.

My point, though, was that just about everybody else has gotten worse.

Last years 13-3 doesn’t matter anymore. That’s over.

I just don’t think we can say everybody has gotten worse yet. Just like our guys had no preseason games and need to clean things up so do other teams. Everyone is dealing with only so many padded practices etc etc.

I know RG is pumping up Minnesota like there some big thing but I have them finishing last in our division. They’re in a mini rebuild. I want to see what this Packer team does over the next 3-4 weeks.

We’re gonna have a real good idea about things in 4 weeks from now. Things will be much more clear.

[GB-Brandon]

We actually had people in here calling Rodgers “A borderline top 10 QB”

LMAO!!!

[texaspackerbacker]

As I said, I'm with you about Rodgers. Some, maybe a lot of worry worts and dumbasses inside the forum and outside whined about him, but he was never that far off, and now he appears to be as good as ever.

The only really tough opponent the next 4 weeks is New Orleans, and I doubt they are as good as last year.

As for everybody getting worse, a lot of teams have lost key players - Minnesota, SF, Chicago, etc.. Others are relying on aging fading players - Tampa, maybe N.O. Others had coaching changes and new schemes which might make them worse - the Dallas D. It ain't just guesses, and a few might actually be better.

The relevance of 13-3 is that thee are so many reasons this year why the team should be better. True, the schedule maybe is a little tougher, but there is zero reason to expect the team will drop off significantly.

[GB-Brandon]

As I said, I'm with you about Rodgers. Some, maybe a lot of worry worts and dumbasses inside the forum and outside whined about him, but he was never that far off, and now he appears to be as good as ever.

The only really tough opponent the next 4 weeks is New Orleans, and I doubt they are as good as last year.

As for everybody getting worse, a lot of teams have lost key players - Minnesota, SF, Chicago, etc.. Others are relying on aging fading players - Tampa, maybe N.O. Others had coaching changes and new schemes which might make them worse - the Dallas D. It ain't just guesses, and a few might actually be better.

The relevance of 13-3 is that thee are so many reasons this year why the team should be better. True, the schedule maybe is a little tougher, but there is zero reason to expect the team will drop off significantly.

If Rodgers continues to play like he did on Sunday then 16-0 is possible. I will NEVER BET AGAINST AARON RODGERS!!!

The issue will be health on the O-Line and at the receiver position. That’s why I wanted them to do more then just bringing in Wagner and Funchess. I’m not certain they are set up right now to fight off attrition on the OL and at WR for a 16 game season.

We shall see.

[Upnorth]

As I have said, the whole NFC other than the Packers is kinda down this season, maybe the whole NFL beyond KC and Baltimore.

It's doubtful that most on Brandon's list actually do have better rosters than us - maybe only the Niners, maybe not even them.

I think on a top to bottom look at rosters you have to have NO in a solid top three if not #1 across the whole nfl. I think they have the best roster top to bottom period.

Outside of ilb and nt the packers have a top 5 roster easily. Unfortunately once you factor in lack of depth at nt and our ilb we are only a solid top 10.

I know our d looked bearish but over half there points came in the last half the game when we were up at least 17 points. Prevent is a dangerous coaching choice...

[GB-Brandon]

I think on a top to bottom look at rosters you have to have NO in a solid top three if not #1 across the whole nfl. I think they have the best roster top to bottom period.

Outside of ilb and nt the packers have a top 5 roster easily. Unfortunately once you factor in lack of depth at nt and our ilb we are only a solid top 10.

I know our d looked bearish but over half there points came in the last half the game when we were up at least 17 points. Prevent is a dangerous coaching choice...

My evaluations were based on “Overall Rosters”. I would agree on the Saints. Aaron Rodgers can cover up lots of “roster deficiencies” when he does his thing.

He was top dog this week!!

http://twitter.com/PFF/status/1305850120999665667

With the Packers issues on the offensive and defensive line and front 7 along with some concerns now at safety along with lack of playmakers I just can’t put them anywhere near the top 5.

[bobblehead]

There is zero evidence of any improvement from the Packers overall roster at this time. In fact defensively you have serious question marks regarding several areas based on the same sample size that your making this assumption with other teams. Offensively it will be a miracle if this OL holds up at this rate of attrition. Nothing has been proven outside of Adams yet in regards to weapons!!!!

All that’s been proven is Aaron Rodgers Is still an elite QB which some jackass’s around here and possibly the Packers front office thought he wasn’t anymore!!!

Now everyone wants to act like it’s all good and bizz as usual.

You don't consider that beatdown of the queens a little bit of evidence??

[bobblehead]

We actually had people in here calling Rodgers “A borderline top 10 QB”

LMAO!!!

I can't recall, did I say that? I don't recall anyone saying it, but give his injuries last few years and his 6th QB rating as voted by players last year, its not an unreasonable position. His numbers last year had him at #20 total QBR. Football outsiders had him at 8. He may be back to his elite top QB self, but for last 5 years he was borderline top 10.

[bobblehead]

If Rodgers continues to play like he did on Sunday then 16-0 is possible. I will NEVER BET AGAINST AARON RODGERS!!!

The issue will be health on the O-Line and at the receiver position. That’s why I wanted them to do more then just bringing in Wagner and Funchess. I’m not certain they are set up right now to fight off attrition on the OL and at WR for a 16 game season.

We shall see.

Your entire schtick is so 2008. You need more Caps Lock though. BRETT FAVRE IS THE ONLY REASON THE PACKERS AREN'T 0-16!!!! Got news for you. its the Green Bay Packers, not the Green Bay Rodgers. This site is dedicated to packer fans, and although Rodgers fanboys mancrushers are aloud, they are mocked as well.

[bobblehead]

My evaluations were based on “Overall Rosters”. I would agree on the Saints. Aaron Rodgers can cover up lots of “roster deficiencies” when he does his thing.

He was top dog this week!!

http://twitter.com/PFF/status/1305850120999665667

With the Packers issues on the offensive and defensive line and front 7 along with some concerns now at safety along with lack of playmakers I just can’t put them anywhere near the top 5.

Arguing you is pointless. Any success is all Rodgers, any failure is all everyone else. You are the type who never owns your own faults. I can tell it from through a computer screen.

[GB-Brandon]

You don't consider that beatdown of the queens a little bit of evidence??

I’ve broken down the Queens game enough I think and given my opinion of what we faced or didn’t.

I have also laid out my concerns moving forward.

[GB-Brandon]

I can't recall, did I say that? I don't recall anyone saying it, but give his injuries last few years and his 6th QB rating as voted by players last year, its not an unreasonable position. His numbers last year had him at #20 total QBR. Football outsiders had him at 8. He may be back to his elite top QB self, but for last 5 years he was borderline top 10.

Actually I recall you saying “Part of you wished he(Rodgers) would just be gone and you were so tired of it” Etc Etc.

You poor thing! Having to deal with Aaron Rodgers and all his greatness and WINNING! Another deprived Packer fan!

[Joemailman]

Rodgers looked the best on Sunday he's looked in years. With the same top 3 WR's from last year. He's said it's due to being comfortable in the offense. Some might say it's because he was actually running the offense. Some have said the drafting of Love lit a fire under Rodgers. I think it might be a little different than that. I think maybe they sent Rodgers a message: We are going to run this offense. Whether the QB is you, or someone else.

[GB-Brandon]

Rodgers looked the best on Sunday he's looked in years. With the same top 3 WR's from last year. He's said it's due to being comfortable in the offense. Some might say it's because he was actually running the offense. Some have said the drafting of Love lit a fire under Rodgers. I think it might be a little different than that. I think maybe they sent Rodgers a message: We are going to run this offense. Whether the QB is you, or someone else.

The thing is he was pretty sharp and on point before he hurt his shoulder. 2018 he had a bad knee and it was a disaster season. Last year the guy still threw for 4k yards with 26 TD and 4 picks. Just about any team in the NFL would do just about anything for that and that was his first year in a brand new offense.

Yes, we saw the live arm Sunday and I don’t think it’s ever been in question that Aaron Rodgers could still make “All The Throws”. He has obviously sharpened up his game. Whether people want to believe it was because they drafted Jordan Love or he broke up with his GF or whatever. Players go through this sometimes throughout their career.

Now is the time to “Double Down” and go get another playmaker weapon.

[GB-Brandon]

Arguing you is pointless. Any success is all Rodgers, any failure is all everyone else. You are the type who never owns your own faults. I can tell it from through a computer screen.

False!!! I might of been wrong about the Seahawks. They probably aren’t gonna fall off this year like I thought so there ya go!!!!

I never said I was right 100% of the time.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Rodgers looked the best on Sunday he's looked in years. With the same top 3 WR's from last year.

True, but most of the WRs are hoped to be on upswing. They better be.


The packer TE situation seems stuck in neutral.

[bobblehead]

Actually I recall you saying “Part of you wished he(Rodgers) would just be gone and you were so tired of it” Etc Etc.

You poor thing! Having to deal with Aaron Rodgers and all his greatness and WINNING! Another deprived Packer fan!

True. But part of me wished he would buy into the Flower offense and stop holding the ball so long. Part of me wanted the accuracy of 2014 back. Its only one game, but both seem to have happened. Don't misunderstand. I love Rodgers. 1st ballot HoF player. I just don't worship him above all logic like you do. Team game. You are a Rodgers fan, like many were Favre fans. I and most here are Packer fans.

[run pMc]

True, but most of the WRs are hoped to be on upswing. They better be.

The packer TE situation seems stuck in neutral.

Possibly. The Vikes LBs and safeties are a bad matchup for the GB TE's, plus the WRs were eating a young MIN CB group alive.

As far as another poster saying there is "zero evidence of any improvement from the Packers overall roster at this time." Uh..no. First, they looked pretty good in Week 1. Second, one week is hardly enough of a sample size to declare zero improvement.
If anything, after one week they showed considerable improvement just going off the raw stats. 22 catches on 27 targets for ~300yds and 4 TDs? No improvement lmao.

[GB-Brandon]

True. But part of me wished he would buy into the Flower offense and stop holding the ball so long. Part of me wanted the accuracy of 2014 back. Its only one game, but both seem to have happened. Don't misunderstand. I love Rodgers. 1st ballot HoF player. I just don't worship him above all logic like you do. Team game. You are a Rodgers fan, like many were Favre fans. I and most here are Packer fans.

No, I don't. I know personally of several of his deeds and one very recently that I am not privileged to share. I have seen with my own two eyes what he has done for this franchise!!!

I don't believe there is anyone in all of sports that has done what Aaron Rodgers has done for the Green Bay Packers. This is a total fucken Joke!!!

And if they don't go get him some help to give him the best shot to go get the trophy then he needs to ask his way out of here. BOTTOM LINE!!! He has done more then his part in all of this!!!!

[GB-Brandon]

See, the thing is "Part of Gute wants him gone too" because Gute is an egomaniac so basically we have a cancer spreading rapidly from the front office which is stunting everything!!!

[Joemailman]

See, the thing is "Part of Gute wants him gone too" because Gute is an egomaniac so basically we have a cancer spreading rapidly from the front office which is stunting everything!!!

Team is 15-4 under coach Gute helped bring in. Rodgers and LaFleur seem to get along great. Packers WR's last week were 2nd, 15th and 36th in the NFL in receiving yards last week. No other team had 3 WR's ranked that high. So far you've been wrong about pretty much everything.

[GB-Brandon]

Team is 15-4 under coach Gute helped bring in. Rodgers and LaFleur seem to get along great. Packers WR's last week were 2nd, 15th and 36th in the NFL in receiving yards last week. No other team had 3 WR's ranked that high. So far you've been wrong about pretty much everything.

If you think the Packer receivers are gonna motor through the NFL like they did that Viking defense your in for a Big Surprise!!

They were without their pass rush and probably have the worst set of corners in the NFL..

More shall be revealed.

[GB-Brandon]

Team is 15-4 under coach Gute helped bring in. Rodgers and LaFleur seem to get along great. Packers WR's last week were 2nd, 15th and 36th in the NFL in receiving yards last week. No other team had 3 WR's ranked that high. So far you've been wrong about pretty much everything.

I also never said this would be a losing football team with Aaron Rodgers at the helm. I have been consistent saying that they won’t get over the hump if they did not address their needs which I don’t believe they did.

Rodgers will once again make up for some of that but I don’t believe it will be enough in the end. We shall see.

Please don’t switch up my narrative!!

[texaspackerbacker]

I wouldn't rule it out that you are correct, but the Vikings are coached by a good defensive mind, and still have a lot of good players. As I've been saying, it will be interesting to see how other teams offenses do against them. I'm leaning toward the Packers and Rodgers being that good, but I guess we'll see with both teams in the coming weeks.

[GB-Brandon]

I wouldn't rule it out that you are correct, but the Vikings are coached by a good defensive mind, and still have a lot of good players. As I've been saying, it will be interesting to see how other teams offenses do against them. I'm leaning toward the Packers and Rodgers being that good, but I guess we'll see with both teams in the coming weeks.

There ya go! If the Packers and MVS and Lazard and Co. go into New Orleans and throw up 40 I will gladly tell everyone I’m a babbling idiot!!

However, I don’t belive im gone have to do that. :glug:

[RashanGary]

There ya go! If the Packers and MVS and Lazard and Co. go into New Orleans and throw up 40 I will gladly tell everyone I’m a babbling idiot!!

However, I don’t belive im gone have to do that. :glug:

Yeah, cuz one game against a top pass defense is the complete judgement of their skill level :lol:

Imma love it if they do tho! They gotta a chance for sure!

[GB-Brandon]

Yeah, cuz one game against a top pass defense is the complete judgement of their skill level :lol:

Imma love it if they do tho! They gotta a chance for sure!

As Rodgers would say, “Gotta Beat the Best to Be The Best”

The rest is just feel good talk!!!!!!

[GB-Brandon]

Somehow this organization and some of the fan base has turned into idolizing divisional and NFC championship playoff losses and thinking that’s Successful!!!!

[texaspackerbacker]

There ya go! If the Packers and MVS and Lazard and Co. go into New Orleans and throw up 40 I will gladly tell everyone I’m a babbling idiot!!

However, I don’t belive im gone have to do that. :glug:

I'll hold you to that. We'll hold you to that.

[sharpe1027]

Arguing you is pointless. Any success is all Rodgers, any failure is all everyone else. You are the type who never owns your own faults. I can tell it from through a computer screen.

Ignore feature is your friend. Short of that, the less you respond, the less I have to see of it from your posts quoting Brandon.

[bobblehead]

Ignore feature is your friend. Short of that, the less you respond, the less I have to see of it from your posts quoting Brandon.

Temporarily enjoying him being wrong over and over again. When it bores me I'll stop.

[bobblehead]

I also never said this would be a losing football team with Aaron Rodgers at the helm. I have been consistent saying that they won’t get over the hump if they did not address their needs which I don’t believe they did.

Rodgers will once again make up for some of that but I don’t believe it will be enough in the end. We shall see.

Please don’t switch up my narrative!!

We got your narrative. Good thing...all Rodgers. Bad thing, can't possibly be Rodgers. Loud and Clear.

[RashanGary]

Ignore feature is your friend. Short of that, the less you respond, the less I have to see of it from your posts quoting Brandon.

Brandon is a puppy with no control over his verbal excretions. He's shitting in the livingroom. Someones gotta rub his nose in the shit pile. Even if he doesn't want to learn, there's a satisfaction watching him paw his own shit off his nose :lol:

[RashanGary]

Plus, pretty sure brandon is apb, creating an alter ego. a bad character created from his sad head space of wishing he was a script writer. A character who needs to be spanked :lol

We can play for a minute :lol:

[GB-Brandon]

This is an uphill fight against Evil and someone that for his own egotistical and personal reasons has done everything he can to sabotage AR12. But he cannot hold the Greatness back!!! Stupid FOOL!!!

“A Leopard Never Changes It’s Spots” so someone has to raise the Awareness! Someone has to do it!!!!!! I will gladly carry that torch to fight off the all the mental midgetry in the way.

Aaron Rodgers will fall on the right side of thing. BELIEVE THAT!!!

[RashanGary]

Apostle Brandon to the rescue :lol:

[GB-Brandon]

And now with St Brown to IR the receiving corp is one more injury from total catastrophe and we’re entering week 2.

Thanks Gute!!!

[GB-Brandon]

Is everyone feeling all Gideee and Fuzzy still? How about a quick check in? LOL

Please tell us to “RELAX” and how it’s all under control? How “We’ve all been here before” Etc Etc.

[RashanGary]

I'm feelin pretty good bout Adams, Battle Lizard, the one trick but a great trick pony Scantling, Swerv and Malik. Yeah, I'd say relax is about right!

[GB-Brandon]

I'm feelin pretty good bout Adams, Battle Lizard, the one trick but a great trick pony Scantling, Swerv and Malik. Yeah, I'd say relax is about right!

Yeah, what a massive Warchest!!!

[RashanGary]

Yeah, what a massive Warchest!!!

Long and thick.

[bobblehead]

San Francisco Got a win...at a price. 1-1 Grats, managed to beat the Jets
Tampa Bay Beat the hapless Panthers 1-1
New Orleans Lost to the Raiders. 1-1
Dallas Very lucky win against a not so good team. 1-1
Philadelphia 0-2 Who is a sad clown?

I would put all those teams rosters ahead of the Packers right now and legit contenders in the NFC. They have all done a much better job filling holes and fielding a roster to win a Championship this year.

Meanwhile the packers have handled business.

[GB-Brandon]

Meanwhile the packers have handled business.

When is the “Ring Ceremony?”

[Upnorth]

When is the “Ring Ceremony?”

If they win the Superbowl they will have it.

Until then your list of teams better than the packers looks pretty much wrong so far this season. Care to acknowledge that or want to try change the subject again.

[GB-Brandon]

If they win the Superbowl they will have it.

Until then your list of teams better than the packers looks pretty much wrong so far this season. Care to acknowledge that or want to try change the subject again.

San Francisco has been decimated by injuries. That could happen to any team and even the Packers. They are very beatable now. Has nothing to do with how i graded their roster. Rams are my new favorite to win this division.

Tampa Bay- I still expect them to be in the mix. Loaded roster and new system with Brady. We play them so we’ll see. Will have to most likely beat them in playoffs too.

New Orleans- Bobble’s big hero and “Secret favorite QB” looks to have fallen off at age 41. They probably still have enough talent to make the playoffs. I no longer see them as being one of the “Top Dawgs”.

Dallas- Another case of lot’s of injuries but with that offense I expect them to win their division. I actually have them beating Seattle this weekend “+192” as my upset special. They will be someone to reckon with come January with that offense.

Philadelphi- lots of injuries but I think their done anyways. They have major issues on defense. Wentz looks absolutely horrible. I’d be surprised if they are even in it come a few weeks. They get Cincinnati then they go Niners, Steelers and Ravens. Looks like a great opportunity to trade for Desean Jackson as they will probably be looking to unload.

Overall the Packers have a chance like always with Aaron Rodgers. I’ve clearly stated what I think they should do to improve their chances. Injuries will most certainly keep coming our way as well. Lot of ball left to be played.

[RashanGary]

Every team is worse when their top players go down, not just the packers. Constantly harping on that is just stupid cuz we all know we're better with our star players than without and no team has unlimited depth to handle a bad run of injuries. It's the NFL. Common sense for any smart football fan.

[GB-Brandon]

Every team is worse when their top players go down, not just the packers. Constantly harping on that is just stupid cuz we all know we're better with our star players than without and no team has unlimited depth to handle a bad run of injuries. It's the NFL. Common sense for any smart football fan.

So why are people challenging me about teams that I graded “before season” that have been ravaged by injuries? I’m pretty good but I don’t have a Fucken crystal ball of who is going to get hurt. Geez!!

[Upnorth]

So why are people challenging me about teams that I graded “before season” that have been ravaged by injuries? I’m pretty good but I don’t have a Fucken crystal ball of who is going to get hurt. Geez!!

It's because of the 'im smarter than you and absolutley right' stance you take and spamming of that message. When you post in absolutes expect to get hammered.

[GB-Brandon]

It's because of the 'im smarter than you and absolutley right' stance you take and spamming of that message. When you post in absolutes expect to get hammered.

I would argue that it is not “Absolutes” but more based on “Probabilities.”

[Upnorth]

I would argue that it is not “Absolutes” but more based on “Probabilities.”

Then make it sound more like probabilities than absolutes. To me it reads like you are trying to write gospel.

Getting back to wrs this suprised the heck out of me...
https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/by-the-numbers/2020/9/22/21451380/packers-allen-lazard-is-among-the-nfls-most-efficient-wide-receivers-through-two-game

[GB-Brandon]

Then make it sound more like probabilities than absolutes. To me it reads like you are trying to write gospel.

Getting back to wrs this suprised the heck out of me...
https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/by-the-numbers/2020/9/22/21451380/packers-allen-lazard-is-among-the-nfls-most-efficient-wide-receivers-through-two-game

I am more then willing to admit that MVS and Lazard are “Serviceable Options” but also need to see them do similar against better defenses. However; as I keep posting we have gotten thinner at an already thin receiver group. Funches didn’t work out. We can’t count on St. Brown even getting on the field let alone being productive. As posted Ervin really isn’t an every down option at Receiver.

Add some pretty shaky TE play in the passing game and I belive its a true concern.

The next guy in line is Malik Taylor. We have to expect the worse that at least somebody will get hurt if not more. To not do so in this situation would be “Reckless.” Do you trust Malik Taylor in a playoff game with the game on the line? I don’t!!!

If the Packers go down in flames due to this I will never forgive them. That is just where I stand. I’ve been around for enough of this and we deserve better.

[Upnorth]

I am more then willing to admit that MVS and Lazard are “Serviceable Options” but also need to see them do similar against better defenses. However; as I keep posting we have gotten thinner at an already thin receiver group. Funches didn’t work out. We can’t count on St. Brown even getting on the field let alone being productive. As posted Ervin really isn’t an every down option at Receiver.

Add some pretty shaky TE play in the passing game and I belive its a true concern.

The next guy in line is Malik Taylor. We have to expect the worse that at least somebody will get hurt if not more. To not do so in this situation would be “Reckless.” Do you trust Malik Taylor in a playoff game with the game on the line? I don’t!!!

If the Packers go down in flames due to this I will never forgive them. That is just where I stand. I’ve been around for enough of this and we deserve better.

I also don't trust a 1st year wr with a game ( even less for a playoff game) on the line with very very few exceptions. I would like us to take a stab at obj and think he would be 'cheap' right now. I want us to stay very very far away from green.

[GB-Brandon]

I also don't trust a 1st year wr with a game ( even less for a playoff game) on the line with very very few exceptions. I would like us to take a stab at obj and think he would be 'cheap' right now. I want us to stay very very far away from green.

I can see where Green’s injury history would be a fear. Every time the guy gets up your kinda holding your breath with him that he is okay so I can see that.

If they got OBJ I would throw a block party(I live blocks from Lambeau). Right now I’d be happy with even Desean Jackson. It’s clear though that they need to do something. This team can get over the hump with a move as you described so Gute needs to man up and get something done.

This I speak in “Absolute.”

[GB-Brandon]

Gute still has an opportunity to be a hero in all of this.

[Upnorth]

I can see where Green’s injury history would be a fear. Every time the guy gets up your kinda holding your breath with him that he is okay so I can see that.

If they got OBJ I would throw a block party(I live blocks from Lambeau). Right now I’d be happy with even Desean Jackson. It’s clear though that they need to do something. This team can get over the hump with a move as you described so Gute needs to man up and get something done.

This I speak in “Absolute.”

I think i take mvs over jackson at this point in his career. With green its not a new injury concern but all the old injury have cost him speed and quickness.

[GB-Brandon]

I think i take mvs over jackson at this point in his career. With green its not a new injury concern but all the old injury have cost him speed and quickness.

Once again I’m living in a world where Adams, Lazard and MVS all don’t stay healthy. If you look around the league it’s not hard to see. We have to keep this offense humming. Having Jackson in the rotation and there to safeguard against injury I believe is worth it. Jackson doesn’t drop wide open TD’s either. That’s for sure!!!

[GB-Brandon]

I also have a hard time believing Aaron Rodgers would be upset and not happy if they got him Desean Jackson or even someone better.

[GB-Brandon]

Sometimes Aaron Rodgers is our best defense if people haven’t noticed!!!

Keep it going!!!

[Upnorth]

As critical as you are of our wr group I think you need to give props for our oline group. After the amount of injuries we have had they are still one of the top lines in the league. Part if that is arod finally getting the ball away in a generally normal time period.

If I'm a qb im going to be incredibly happy with that group. A great oline makes a bad qb look ok. A bad oline makes a great qb look bad.

[GB-Brandon]

I am providing Jackson as an option to all the naysayers that are like “What about the Salary Cap” and “What would we have to give up” peeps. Like it really matters anyways “On Path To Glory” but Jackson wouldn’t take too much draft capital and the $ isn’t bad. After Philly dumps the next 3 out 4 I’m sure they would be more then motivated to dump him and get something in return.

This is what “Great GM’s Do.” They take advantage of situations to make their team better and giving them the best shot to win with keeping the future in mind. This would accomplish all those things!!

[GB-Brandon]

As critical as you are of our wr group I think you need to give props for our oline group. After the amount of injuries we have had they are still one of the top lines in the league. Part if that is arod finally getting the ball away in a generally normal time period.

If I'm a qb im going to be incredibly happy with that group. A great oline makes a bad qb look ok. A bad oline makes a great qb look bad.

Okay and that is fine and great. My two concerns moving forward for the last time is the “Limited Weaponry” we have holding up to injury along with what they do against better competition.

I’ve pleaded my case and we will just have to see how it plays out.

[GB-Brandon]

If Gute wants to continue to “Sit On His Hands” and watch another opportunity fly right out the window then fine. I’m just about done with it. There will be plenty of time to reconstruct things with Jordan Love and Losing and trying to figure out what went wrong. Gute probably won’t even survive it when it does turn.

We’re down to a two year window before the bomb goes off. Go Get A Lombardi while you still can. Otherwise you will be kicking yourself for the next 20 years wondering why you didn’t. There has already been so much wasted. Kinda figures the Packers would go all the way with it.

Rodgers is playing this out perfectly to look good on his way out and get into a position where all this is a non-issue. Gute is going to be left standing there with a bunch of RAS charts and a lot of explaining to do. Karma certainly isn’t on his side.

#Evil

[RashanGary]

In Adams presser he said it's a matchup that woulda been a good time, errrr I mean if I play it'll be a good time. Sounds like he doesn't think he's gonna play.

[RashanGary]

#Evil

#dramaqueen

[GB-Brandon]

In Adams presser he said it's a matchup that woulda been a good time, errrr I mean if I play it'll be a good time. Sounds like he doesn't think he's gonna play.

Well that certainly levels the playing field without the Saints having Thomas. This is actually good. We’re gonna see what we really have with Lazard and MVS.

[RashanGary]

So why are people challenging me about teams that I graded “before season” that have been ravaged by injuries? I’m pretty good but I don’t have a Fucken crystal ball of who is going to get hurt. Geez!!

I'm not harping on you. SF had horrible luck. But even when you were talking about how we couldn't beat SF, I had mentioned then that you never know what's going to happen to them and luck could be on our side and we'd never face them. You laid out worst case, that they were healthy and we had to beat them. And you beat it to death that we could never beat them.

And now we have a shot to beat NO without Clark and our top WR, of which were your doom and gloom worst case scenarios.

You are certainly correct that our odds of winning the Superbowl aren't great. But even the chiefs and Ravens sit at +500 so literally nobody is likely to win it and even those who are most likely have a whole bunch of worst case scenarios too, same as what happened to SF.

Dude, its the NFL. Nobody is ever likely to win a sb because every team has.thin spots and bad scenarios that happen to most teams in most years.

[RashanGary]

Last year when Mahommes was hurt and the chiefs started to slide, I got in at +600 for them to win the AFC. That was a nice bet at a good time. But they came really close to a worst case scenario and not even making the playoffs if that injury was worse. A huge part if winning it is getting some fortunate health bounces and facing teams you match up well with.

[Joemailman]

Aaron Rodgers passer rating when throwing to his wide receivers:

Allen Lazard: 153.7 7-9, 108 1 TD

Davante Adams: 140.0 17-20, 192 2 TD

MVS: 123.9 7-13, 160 1 TD

Tyler Ervin: 87.5 2-2, 10

Rodgers overall passer rating: 119.4

[GB-Brandon]

Last year when Mahommes was hurt and the chiefs started to slide, I got in at +600 for them to win the AFC. That was a nice bet at a good time. But they came really close to a worst case scenario and not even making the playoffs if that injury was worse. A huge part if winning it is getting some fortunate health bounces and facing teams you match up well with.

I get all that with both your posts about “Having Some Luck”. Heck, even Mike Holmgren would say “You gotta get a little lucky” all the time and actually still does. Just like we got unlucky when everything was looking great and optimistic and Rodgers broke his collarbone against Minnesota.

These are things that we or the Packers have no control over. Once again there are other things they do have control over and I don’t believe Brian Gutekunst has done everything in his power to give us the best possible chance and I will never forgive him for that. I don’t care what anybody says!!!!

[GB-Brandon]

Aaron Rodgers passer rating when throwing to his wide receivers:

Allen Lazard: 153.7 7-9, 108 1 TD

Davante Adams: 140.0 17-20, 192 2 TD

MVS: 123.9 7-13, 160 1 TD

Tyler Ervin: 87.5 2-2, 10

Rodgers overall passer rating: 119.4

Great. Lazard should have no problem operating as the No.1 this week and beating consistent double coverage then!!!

I’m gonna have my popcorn ready!!!

[RashanGary]

Great. Lazard should have no problem operating as the No.1 this week and beating consistent double coverage then!!!

I’m gonna have my popcorn ready!!!

If it's like everything else you attempt to foreshadow, I'm sure it'll work out great

[Joemailman]

Last year with Adams out, Lazard was very consistent. But it was MVS and Jones who had monster games.

[GB-Brandon]

Last year with Adams out, Lazard was very consistent. But it was MVS and Jones who had monster games.

This will easily be their toughest test without Adams thus far including 2019. The Saints front seven is legit. I expect them to bounce back from a disappointing performance against Raiders. We will find out for sure what we have with MVS and Lazard.

[GB-Brandon]

Also, the Raiders were able to attack the Saints with Elite TE play. The Packers don’t have that. The matchups are interesting for sure!!!