Grant and Peterson Compared

[Bretsky]

I wonder if Wist would call Kampman a difference maker yet

[Harlan Huckleby]

he's a try-hard guy. a white (and therefore) smart player.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Vince,

You are better than this. Did you watch the 4-4 defenses that Minnesota went up against the last 4 weeks of the year?

[BallHawk]

Right now, I think I am more scared of facing AP twice a year, than Ras is facing Grant twice a year.

Well said, Tar. Completely agree.

[GBRulz]

[quote="BallHawk"]

Right now, I think I am more scared of facing AP twice a year, than Ras is facing Grant twice a year.

Facing Randy Moss twice a year scared me. I guess I don't feel the same about AP yet! Perhaps it's because MN has a bad passing game, I dunno but we kept AP in check pretty damn well. until he starts torching our asses, I say bring 'em on!

[vince]

Vince,

You are better than this. Did you watch the 4-4 defenses that Minnesota went up against the last 4 weeks of the year?

Yes I understand that defenses stack the box against the Vikes because they can't pass, which Peterson can't control. And I'd rather have a healthy Peterson running for the Packers than a healthy Grant.

I'm just wondering in my own mind (and trying to pick the brains of you guys) just how much more I'd rather have Peterson.

This Grant kid is better than most give him credit for because he tends to unspectacularly productive. Given that, Grant could end up being a superior value for years to come, although I don't know what Peterson's contract looks like.

As someone said back on page 1, both teams are rightfully very happy with what they got.

[RashanGary]

I think Patler brought up a great example in Aaron Kampman. He never went to the combine. We all assumed his physical ability was limited. HH said it could be because he's white and as silly as that might sound, I think there is some truth to that too. Kind of goes hand in hand with the Grant arguement right now. He was an undrafted player. He hasn't played in the NFL until this year. He's not even close to as phyically gifted as Adrian Peterson.


Well, come to find out Aaron Kampman was the 2nd most physically gifted DE in the draft (probably after Peppers). They didn't release his 40, vertical or position drill numbers but the Packers released some info saying the scouts had him tabbed as a high upside guy. Even they, the scouts, might have been duped by him not going to the combine or having the big school spotlight. The Big 10 isn't exactly the best place for a pass rusher to pad stats.

On to Ryan Grant. Everyone keeps saying he's so much less physically gifted than Peterson. Well, Grant is 225 lbs and runs a 4.43. Peterson is 220 and runs a 4.40. That size/speed thing, for whatever reason, is being overlooked on Grant. He's got the home run skill set, just like Kampman has the pass rushers home run skill set. I think Peterson has that shiftyness to his game that a 220 lb guy should not have so everyone says "look at that, he's the most physically gifted guy ever". This is the next great point by Vince. Grant doesn't have that freakish quickness, but it's funny, whenever the play calls for some of it, he always has just enough to make the play. He PRODUCES. Just like Kampman.

Two common errors were made with Kamp

1. We underestimated his abilty for a long time
2. We assumed he was lucky to be producing

We're repeating those with Grant. Scouts repeat the same mistakes over and over too. Vince's last great pioont uses this conversation as evidence. The way people are calling Vince crazy or void of football knolwedge is exactly why a great GM can consistantly kick ass in this league. There are some illusions that are just hard to see through and if you find a guy who can see the forest through the trees better than the rest of them, wow, you have the most important thing a franchise can have and that is superior talent and nobody even knows it so you can afford more of it. Packer fans be happy is all I can say.

I'm just summarizing all of your info, but I think some great points were made so I had to get in on it.

[Patler]

And I'd rather have a healthy Peterson running for the Packers than a healthy Grant.

I'm just wondering in my own mind (and trying to pick the brains of you guys) just how much more I'd rather have Peterson.

A legitimate question. This is why I mentioned players "fitting" the system.

It could be argued that for GB as it is this year, Grant is a better "fit". Grant was good enough to make the running game go the last 10 games. When you have a guy like Peterson, you are almost forced to become a running team to use his talent. With the O-line as unsettled as it is, with Favre playing as he has, and with the receivers and TEs as they have, focusing too much on the running game may actually have been detrimental, even if Peterson was your runner. Grant makes the offense better by being a legitimate running threat, but doesn't distract the team's focus from its real strength.

It has nothing to do with Grant being "as good as" Peterson, but maybe he is as valuable within the Packers system.

[Bretsky]

Grant can be very good
AP can be great

[MJZiggy]

Grant can be very good
AP can be great

Don't go underestimating your boys again...You know they can turn it on and surprise you. It's just a hunch, but I get the feeling that when all is said and done, 10 years from now, Grant will have outproduced AP.

[Bretsky]

Grant has been a great fit for Green Bay and his talents seem to be a good fit for the zone blocking system. AP has such great vision and ability to make anybody miss I think he excels in any system.

Let's step back here. The Giants have witnessed two of Ryan Grant's training camps and rated him to be below Brandon Jacobs, Derrick Ward, Ahman Bradshaw, and Ruben Droughans.

Did they grossly misjudge Grant ? Maybe. Jacobs is still very good, Ward looked very good when he played this year, and Bradshaw looked very good this year when he played. Droughans is a veteran they felt they needed. So they decided Ryan Grant was the RB they could most afford to lose.

Am I suggesting Grant is far more or less talented than the other NYG backs ? No, but obviously they were loaded at RB and we got a great value in Grant.

But our homerism reaks incredibly when we try to argue Ryan Grant's talent is with a guy who may be the most talented RB in the NFL.

[Bretsky]

Grant can be very good
AP can be great

Don't go underestimating your boys again...You know they can turn it on and surprise you. It's just a hunch, but I get the feeling that when all is said and done, 10 years from now, Grant will have outproduced AP.

AP has been more prone to injuries so that certainly could be the case
Talent wise AP could also end up being categorized as the greatest of all time

who knows

[SkinBasket]

1. We underestimated his abilty for a long time
2. We assumed he was lucky to be producing

We're repeating those with Grant....

You got a mouse in your pocket? Who is this "we" you're referring to?

[Scott Campbell]

But our homerism reaks incredibly when we try to argue Ryan Grant's talent is with a guy who may be the most talented RB in the NFL.

I didn't see any homerism in the projected full season stats. The numbers are what knock your socks off. Well except for the other thing that knocks your socks off - the video tape. Grant has looked every bit the part thus far.

Unless his performance has been some sort of mirage, I'm hopeful that they the only thing AP has on him is pedigree.

[RashanGary]

You got a mouse in your pocket? Who is this "we" you're referring to?

We is a term I use that is designed to say a mistake was made, but that it was a common, human mistake that we all can and do make from time to time. I acctually jumped on the Kampy band wagon pretty fast, but I was trying to say a lot of the Kamp hate went on for too long by too many people without being a big Ahole and pointing fingers. For some reason I'm not suprised this communication tactic is lost on you, skinbasket. I'll tell you what, for you it can be a mouse in my pocket or whatever your bitter, cynical, baselessly arrogant mind wants to assume, ok?