Big Unit says it is up to Favre

[The Leaper]

Leaper made a post saying Favre is great, so we shouldn't criticize the thing he does so poorly. Favre has to play better than he has in past playoffs. It's that simple.

Where did I say we shouldn't criticize him? I merely pointed out that Favre is cut from the cloth of legends...and we should count ourselves privileged to have him to cheer for, regardless of his few warts.

That doesn't mean we ignore the warts...merely that we should recognize how fortunate we are to have a legendary player of Favre's stature on our team...win or lose. He's an NFL treasure.

I have no problem saying he has to play better than he has in recent postseasons. I'm sure he will admit as much. However, by all accounts, Favre is working harder than ever...and I'm guessing he won't be the one the costs us due to poor decisions this season.

[b bulldog]

I agree that Sherman was part of the problem but when you have a vet QB, you expect more out of him than a rookie, good coach or not.

[gbgary]

Favre is a GREAT competitior
Favre has a GREAT arm
Favre is an accurate passer
Favre practices and plays full speed
Favre is a GREAT leader
Favre is an intinctive football player
Favre has great escapablity
Favre can throw as good as anyone from unusual platforms


There are probably about 50 other compliments to Favres game that people could give.


Favre makes a lot of really stupid decisions that cost us big games.

There, he has flaw too. It doesn't mean he's not good, but him being good doesn't mean he doesn't have a flaw either. Leaper made a post saying Favre is great, so we shouldn't criticize the thing he does so poorly. Favre has to play better than he has in past playoffs. It's that simple.

i agree with ALL the above and will add this...MM can help Brett play better by reducing his exposure to the blitzes, that are sure to come with empty back-field formations, by running less of it; by staying with the run to make teams respect play-action; by not calling desperation-type plays unless we really ARE desperate; and by demanding Brett protect the ball and convincing him that taking a sack is better than watching a linebacker run an interception into the end zone. the gift-giving season is over.

[RashanGary]

gbgary, MM seems like a fantastic playcaller to me. It's acctually a GOOD thing to take deep shots. It's a bad thing to take them even when they are double or triple covered. That's why we have a QB to make the final decision of where to throw the ball. You saying MM needs to not call desperation plays is assuming MM calls plays that are hail mary's. He does not. One guy runs deep. The rest run short routes or intermediate. Favre makes the final decision to toss it.

Favres INT's are not on MM. They are on Favre (and he's had relatively few of them this year). He's playing great.

As far as protection goes, they can and will play better than that. It was a bad game by Cliffy and a knicked up Tausch.

[RashanGary]

Leaper, would you call the interception record an indicator that he makes a lot of stupid decisions?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Leaper, would you call the interception record an indicator that he makes a lot of stupid decisions?

I call it an indication that he's thrown more passes than anybody in history.

Of course, he makes some dumb throws. Just like the guy he is most comparable to--John Elway. Most of the time they had to or their team would lose. Not always, but get over it! Other QBs didn't have the toughness or leadership or strong arm or accuracy or escapability. He's nowhere near "as dumb" as you make him out to be. His interception rate is not historically high. His TD rate is. His completion % is well above average. He plays. He wins.

Nick, young buddy, you'll learn soon enough just how good Brett Favre is/was.

[RashanGary]

I think he's good, but I like to have a little realism with my fanism.

I'm sure I'll be the old guy telling my grand kids about the legendary Brett Favre and how he'd play on a broken fibula and smashed ribs


He's good Harvey. Real good. No, he's great. I just hate when people make excuses when he makes a mistake. I wouldn't want excuses to be made for me. People make mistakes. Favre is people, right? I'm not here to tear down Favre. I just hate hearing all of the excuses. It gets tough to listen to. Favre really is good enough that he doesn't need to have an excuse when he fall short of perfection. It's OK.

[esoxx]

It's always great to get in a good round of Favre bashing before the playoffs start. Good for the circulation.

[pbmax]

Career Pass Interception % Leaders
stats from: pro-football-reference.com
QBs listed whose entire careers were played under post 1978 passing rules (ie. offensive lineman allowed to extend arms in pass blocking, five yard chuck zone, etc.)

Rnk  Player  (age), + HOFer    Int%     Years           Teams
1    Neil O'Donnell           2.10%     1991     2003     4TM
     Donovan McNabb (31)      2.10%     1999     2007     phi
3    Mark Brunell             2.30%     1994     2006     3TM
     Jeff Garcia (37)         2.30%     1999     2007     5TM
5    Tom Brady (30)           2.40%     2000     2007     nwe
6    Kent Graham              2.50%     1992     2001     4TM
     Steve Bono               2.50%     1985     1999     7TM
     Rich Gannon              2.50%     1987     2004     4TM
9    Joe Montana+             2.60%     1979     1994     2TM
     Steve Young+             2.60%     1985     1999     2TM
     Bernie Kosar             2.60%     1985     1996     3TM
     Steve McNair (34)        2.60%     1995     2007     2TM
     Philip Rivers (26)       2.60%     2004     2007     sdg
14   Matt Hasselbeck (32)     2.70%     1999     2007     2TM
     Ken O'Brien              2.70%     1984     1993     2TM
     Drew Brees (28)          2.70%     2001     2007     2TM
     Byron Leftwich (27)      2.70%     2003     2007     2TM
18   Brad Johnson (39)        2.80%     1994     2007     4TM
     Jeff George              2.80%     1990     2001     5TM
     Peyton Manning (31)      2.80%     1998     2007     clt
21   Neil Lomax               2.90%     1981     1988     crd
     Trent Green (37)         2.90%     1997     2007     4TM
     Chad Pennington (31)     2.90%     2000     2007     nyj
24   Jim Miller               3.00%     1995     2002     2TM
     Dan Marino+              3.00%     1983     1999     mia
     Jeff Hostetler           3.00%     1985     1997     3TM
     Jim Harbaugh             3.00%     1987     2000     4TM
     Troy Aikman+             3.00%     1989     2000     dal
     Charlie Batch (33)       3.00%     1998     2007     2TM
     Michael Vick             3.00%     2001     2006     atl
     Marc Bulger (30)         3.00%     2002     2007     ram
32   Jeff Blake               3.10%     1992     2005     7TM
     John Elway+              3.10%     1983     1998     den
     Randall Cunningham       3.10%     1985     2001     4TM
     John Friesz              3.10%     1990     2000     4TM
     Drew Bledsoe             3.10%     1993     2006     3TM
     Tony Banks               3.10%     1996     2005     4TM
     Aaron Brooks             3.10%     2000     2006     2TM
     Carson Palmer (28)       3.10%     2004     2007     cin
40   Doug Flutie              3.20%     1986     2005     4TM
     Gus Frerotte (36)        3.20%     1994     2007     7TM
     Jake Delhomme (32)       3.20%     1999     2007     2TM
     Daunte Culpepper (30)    3.20%     1999     2007     3TM
     David Carr (28)          3.20%     2002     2007     2TM
45   Tony Eason               3.30%     1983     1990     2TM
     Steve Dils               3.30%     1979     1988     3TM
     Stan Humphries           3.30%     1989     1997     2TM
     Brett Favre (38)         3.30%     1991     2007     2TM
     Elvis Grbac              3.30%     1994     2001     3TM
     Kerry Collins (35)       3.30%     1995     2007     5TM
     Patrick Ramsey (28)      3.30%     2002     2007     3TM
     Joey Harrington (29)     3.30%     2002     2007     3TM
54   Kyle Boller (26)         3.40%     2003     2007     rav
     Phil Simms               3.40%     1979     1993     nyg
     Warren Moon+             3.40%     1984     2000     4TM
     Erik Kramer              3.40%     1987     1999     4TM
     Steve Beuerlein          3.40%     1988     2003     6TM
     Mark Rypien              3.40%     1988     2001     5TM
     Kurt Warner (36)         3.40%     1998     2007     3TM
61   Scott Mitchell           3.50%     1991     2001     4TM
     Bill Kenney              3.50%     1980     1988     kan
     Jim McMahon              3.50%     1982     1996     6TM
     Boomer Esiason           3.50%     1984     1997     3TM
     Bubby Brister            3.50%     1986     2000     5TM
     Don Majkowski            3.50%     1987     1996     3TM
     Chris Miller             3.50%     1987     1999     3TM
     Craig Erickson           3.50%     1992     1997     3TM
     Dave M. Brown            3.50%     1992     2001     2TM
     Brian Griese (32)        3.50%     1998     2007     4TM
     Eli Manning (26)         3.50%     2004     2007     nyg
72   Jim Everett              3.60%     1986     1997     3TM
     Chris Chandler           3.60%     1988     2004     7TM
     Kordell Stewart          3.60%     1995     2005     3TM
     Danny Kanell             3.60%     1996     2003     3TM
77   Jon Kitna (35)           3.70%     1997     2007     3TM
     Doug Williams            3.70%     1978     1989     2TM
     Dave Krieg               3.70%     1980     1998     6TM
     Jim Kelly+               3.70%     1986     1996     buf
     Billy Joe Tolliver       3.70%     1989     1999     5TM
     Ty Detmer                3.70%     1993     2003     5TM
     Rick Mirer               3.70%     1993     2003     5TM
     Jake Plummer             3.70%     1997     2006     2TM
     Rex Grossman (27)        3.70%     2003     2007     chi
87   Ben Roethlisberger (25)  3.80%     2004     2007     pit
     Steve Fuller             3.80%     1979     1986     2TM
     Jay Schroeder            3.80%     1985     1994     4TM
     Hugh Millen              3.80%     1987     1995     4TM
     Steve Walsh              3.80%     1989     1999     6TM
     Jay Fiedler              3.80%     1995     2005     5TM
     Josh McCown (28)         3.80%     2002     2007     3TM
95   Quincy Carter            3.90%     2001     2004     2TM
     Frank Reich              3.90%     1985     1998     4TM
     Rodney Peete             3.90%     1989     2004     6TM
     Tim Couch                3.90%     1999     2003     cle
     Steve Pelluer            4.00%     1984     1990     2TM
     Bobby Hebert             4.00%     1985     1996     2TM
     Vinny Testaverde (44)    4.00%     1987     2007     7TM
106  Steve DeBerg             4.10%     1978     1998     6TM
     Trent Dilfer (35)        4.10%     1994     2007     5TM
     Wade Wilson              4.20%     1981     1998     5TM
     Mike Pagel               4.20%     1982     1993     3TM
     Jack Trudeau             4.20%     1986     1995     3TM
116  Jeff Kemp                4.40%     1981     1991     4TM
     Eric Hipple              4.50%     1980     1989     det
     Gary Hogeboom            4.50%     1980     1989     3TM
     Mike Tomczak             4.50%     1985     1999     4TM
     Tommy Maddox             4.50%     1992     2005     4TM
     David Woodley            4.80%     1980     1985     2TM
     Marc Wilson              4.90%     1980     1990     2TM
     Mark Malone              4.90%     1980     1989     3TM
142  Randy Wright             5.10%     1984     1988     gnb
145  Scott Brunner            5.20%     1980     1985     2TM
     Dave Wilson              5.30%     1981     1988     nor

Int % defined as: Percentage of times intercepted when attempting to pass (minimum 14 attempts per scheduled game to qualify as leader)
= Interceptions/(Passes Attempted)

[pbmax]

Names that stick out for me

Ahead of Favre:
Montana, Young, McNabb, Brady, Manning, Gannon, O'Donnell (a stiff maybe, but still a Super Bowl QB), McNair, Johnson, Hasselback, Marino, Hostetler, Aikman, Elway, Cunningham (!?), Delhomme

Behind Favre:
Simms, Moon, Kelly, Rypien, Warner, McMahon, Esiason, Williams, Roethlisberger, Woodley (see O'Donnell),

[HarveyWallbangers]

That's why the Packers know the kind of rare opportunity they have in front of them, especially for a veteran like Favre.

"I think three years ago we were saying, 'He's done.' And I was saying the same thing, and here we are," Favre said.

"Stranger things have happened. We may go 14-2 next year, so who knows?"

That's from Bedard's article on the JSO today. Is there any doubt that he'll back slinging more TDs and interceptions next year?


His article is pretty fair.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=703801

in those seven playoff appearances since the Packers' last Super Bowl, Favre was intercepted 16 times (six against the St. Louis Rams in 2001), threw 11 touchdown passes and had a passer rating of 70.8.

From 1993-'97, Favre owned an 8-4 post-season record, threw 23 touchdown passes against 10 interceptions, and his rating was 92.0.

Actually, it was a 9-4 postseason record. 2-5 record since.

There's no doubt he's had his struggles of late--especially against an overwhelming St. Louis team, vs. Atlanta, and vs. Minnesota when they fell behind 14-0 early. I think it is important (probably in a small way) for his legacy to go out with good playoff performances. He finally has a team that can compete with the best in the conference again, and a lot will fall on him. Let's not pretend he hasn't had some GREAT playoff moments also. Like his career, he's had more good than bad. I'll take best record over a 16 year period, 1 losing season, 273+ consecutive starts, 9 Pro Bowls, 3 MVPs, 8 division titles, 11 playoff appearances, and every conceivable record in the books though. All with one certain Hall of Fame teammate (Reggie White) and perhaps another one (LeRoy Butler). None on offense--although Sterling Sharpe was a Hall of Fame caliber talent that he played with for three years, and Ahman Green was damn good. Especially since I had watched the Pack from 1980 through 1991--witnessing two winning seasons and one playoff berth with the likes of Lynn Dickey (solid, but immobile), Majik (one or two good seasons), Randy Wright, Rich Campbell, Anthony Dilweg quarterbacking the team to futility.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Names that stick out for me

Ahead of Favre:
Montana, Young, McNabb, Brady, Manning, Gannon, O'Donnell (a stiff maybe, but still a Super Bowl QB), McNair, Johnson, Hasselback, Marino, Hostetler, Aikman, Elway, Cunningham (!?), Delhomme

Behind Favre:
Simms, Moon, Kelly, Rypien, Warner, McMahon, Esiason, Williams, Roethlisberger, Woodley (see O'Donnell),

Can you post # of wins, TD rate, completion %, MVPs, Pro Bowls, winning seasons, playoff appearances, consecutive starts also?

[pbmax]

TD Rate coming up. You're on your own for the rest. Takes too much time to format from tabs or commas to spaces.

[pbmax]

Career Passing Touchdown % Leaders
stats from: pro-football-reference.com
QBs listed whose entire careers were played under post 1978 passing rules (ie. offensive lineman allowed to extend arms in pass blocking, five yard chuck zone, etc.)

Rnk  Player  (age), + HOF          TD%      Year     Done    Teams
1   Ben Roethlisberger (25)      5.80%      2004     2007      pit
2   Peyton Manning (31)          5.70%      1998     2007      clt
3   Steve Young+                 5.60%      1985     1999      2TM
4   Tom Brady (30)               5.40%      2000     2007      nwe
5   Joe Montana+                 5.10%      1979     1994      2TM
    Kurt Warner (36)             5.10%      1998     2007      3TM
    Carson Palmer (28)           5.10%      2004     2007      cin
8   Dan Marino+                  5.00%      1983     1999      mia
    Jim Kelly+                   5.00%      1986     1996      buf
    Brett Favre (38)             5.00%      1991     2007      2TM
    Jake Delhomme (32)           5.00%      1999     2007      2TM
12  Dave Krieg                   4.90%      1980     1998      6TM
    Daunte Culpepper (30)        4.90%      1999     2007      3TM
14  Randall Cunningham           4.80%      1985     2001      4TM
15  Boomer Esiason               4.70%      1984     1997      3TM
    Donovan McNabb (31)          4.60%      1999     2007      phi
    Philip Rivers (26)           4.60%      2004     2007      sdg
18  Matt Hasselbeck (32)         4.50%      1999     2007      2TM
    Jeff Garcia (37)             4.50%      1999     2007      5TM
20  Steve Beuerlein              4.40%      1988     2003      6TM
    Mark Rypien                  4.40%      1988     2001      5TM
    Trent Green (37)             4.40%      1997     2007      4TM
    Brian Griese (32)            4.40%      1998     2007      4TM
    Drew Brees (28)              4.40%      2001     2007      2TM
25  Phil Simms                   4.30%      1979     1993      nyg
    Bill Kenney                 .4.30%      1980     1988      kan
    Neil Lomax                   4.30%      1981     1988      crd
    Jeff Kemp                   .4.30%      1981     1991      4TM
    Warren Moon+                 4.30%      1984     2000      4TM
    Bobby Hebert                 4.30%      1985     1996      2TM
    Frank Reich                 .4.30%      1985     1998      4TM
    Rich Gannon                 .4.30%      1987     2004      4TM
    Chris Miller                 4.30%      1987     1999      3TM
    Chad Pennington (31)         4.30%      2000     2007      nyj
    Marc Bulger (30)             4.30%      2002     2007      ram
    Eli Manning (26)             4.30%      2004     2007      nyg
37  Chris Chandler               4.20%      1988     2004      7TM
    Aaron Brooks                 4.20%      2000     2006      2TM
    Marc Wilson                  4.10%      1980     1990      2TM
    Wade Wilson                  4.10%      1981     1998      5TM
41  John Elway+                  4.10%      1983     1998      den
    Jay Schroeder                4.10%      1985     1994      4TM
    Jim Everett                  4.10%      1986     1997      3TM
    Vinny Testaverde (44)        4.10%      1987     2007      7TM
    Jeff Blake                   4.10%      1992     2005      7TM
    Michael Vick                 4.10%      2001     2006      atl
47  Doug Williams                4.00%      1978     1989      2TM
    Jeff Hostetler               4.00%      1985     1997      3TM
    Doug Flutie                  4.00%      1986     2005      4TM
    Erik Kramer                  4.00%      1987     1999      4TM
    Scott Mitchell               4.00%      1991     2001      4TM
    Tommy Maddox                 4.00%      1992     2005      4TM
    Elvis Grbac                  4.00%      1994     2001      3TM
    Mark Brunell                 4.00%      1994     2006      3TM
    Jay Fiedler                  4.00%      1995     2005      5TM
56  Steve DeBerg                 3.90%      1978     1998      6TM
    Jim McMahon                  3.90%      1982     1996      6TM
    Tony Eason                   3.90%      1983     1990      2TM
    Jeff George                  3.90%      1990     2001      5TM
    Brad Johnson (39)            3.90%      1994     2007      4TM
    Charlie Batch (33)           3.90%      1998     2007      2TM
62  Mike Tomczak                 3.80%      1985     1999      4TM
    Craig Erickson               3.80%      1992     1997      3TM
    Steve McNair (34)            3.80%      1995     2007      2TM
    Patrick Ramsey (28)          3.80%      2002     2007      3TM
66  Gary Hogeboom                3.70%      1980     1989      3TM
    David Woodley                3.70%      1980     1985      2TM
    Bernie Kosar                 3.70%      1985     1996      3TM
    Bubby Brister                3.70%      1986     2000      5TM
    Neil O'Donnell               3.70%      1991     2003      4TM
    Drew Bledsoe                 3.70%      1993     2006      3TM
    Jake Plummer                 3.70%      1997     2006      2TM
    Jon Kitna (35)               3.70%      1997     2007      3TM
    Tim Couch                    3.70%      1999     2003      cle
    Byron Leftwich (27)          3.70%      2003     2007      2TM
76  Mark Malone                  3.60%      1980     1989      3TM
    Eric Hipple                  3.60%      1980     1989      det
    Ken O'Brien                  3.60%      1984     1993      2TM
    Steve Bono                   3.60%      1985     1999      7TM
    Ty Detmer                    3.60%      1993     2003      5TM
    Gus Frerotte (36)            3.60%      1994     2007      7TM
    Trent Dilfer (35)            3.60%      1994     2007      5TM
83  Dave Wilson                  3.50%      1981     1988      nor
    Don Majkowski                3.50%      1987     1996      3TM
    Stan Humphries               3.50%      1989     1997      2TM
    Troy Aikman+                 3.50%      1989     2000      dal
    Billy Joe Tolliver           3.50%      1989     1999      5TM
88  Jim Miller                   3.40%      1995     2002      2TM
    Rex Grossman (27)            3.40%      2003     2007      chi
    Kyle Boller (26)             3.40%      2003     2007      rav
91  Jim Harbaugh                 3.30%      1987     2000      4TM
    John Friesz                  3.30%      1990     2000      4TM
    Kerry Collins (35)           3.30%      1995     2007      5TM
    Kordell Stewart              3.30%      1995     2005      3TM
    Tony Banks                   3.30%      1996     2005      4TM
    Quincy Carter                3.30%      2001     2004      2TM
    Josh McCown (28)             3.30%      2002     2007      3TM
98  Mike Pagel                   3.20%      1982     1993      3TM
    Rodney Peete                 3.20%      1989     2004      6TM
    Danny Kanell                 3.20%      1996     2003      3TM
101 Joey Harrington (29)         3.10%      2002     2007      3TM
102 Steve Pelluer                3.00%      1984     1990      2TM
    Steve Walsh                  3.00%      1989     1999      6TM
104 Kent Graham                  2.90%      1992     2001      4TM
105 Steve Dils                   2.80%      1979     1988      3TM
    Scott Brunner                2.80%      1980     1985      2TM
    Randy Wright                 2.80%      1984     1988      gnb
    David Carr (28)              2.80%      2002     2007      2TM
109 Dave M. Brown                2.70%      1992     2001      2TM
110 Steve Fuller                 2.60%      1979     1986      2TM
    Jack Trudeau                 2.60%      1986     1995      3TM
112 Hugh Millen                  2.40%      1987     1995      4TM
    Rick Mirer                   2.40%      1993     2003      5TM

TD Pct Defined As Percentage of Touchdowns Thrown when Attempting to Pass (Minimum 14 attempts per scheduled game to qualify as leader)
= Passing Touchdowns/(Passess Attempted)

[HarveyWallbangers]

[code]Rnk Player (age), + HOF TD% Year Done Teams
1 Ben Roethlisberger (25) 5.80% 2004 2007 pit
2 Peyton Manning (31) 5.70% 1998 2007 clt
3 Steve Young+ 5.60% 1985 1999 2TM
4 Tom Brady (30) 5.40% 2000 2007 nwe
5 Joe Montana+ 5.10% 1979 1994 2TM
Kurt Warner (36) 5.10% 1998 2007 3TM
Carson Palmer (28) 5.10% 2004 2007 cin

The guys ahead of him either had Jerry Rice to throw to (Montana and Young), are young yet so they haven't hit the stage in their career where their stats decrease (Manning, Big Ben, Brady, and Palmer), or are Kurt Warner (who has had a handful of good years throwing to Isaac Bruce/Torry Holt and now Larry Fitzgerald/Anquan Boldin).

Have to respect Tom Brady. Outside of this year, he hasn't had a Hall of Fame cast of WRs, but is up there. Of course, he hasn't hit the downside of his career, and this year had to give him a HUGE bump. Big Ben will fall off. Manning has had Reggie Wayne/Marvin Harrison. Young had Rice/Terrell Owens. Montana had Rice/Dwight Clark/John Taylor/Roger Craig. Palmer has Chad Johnson/T.J.