Age versus maturity, Carroll vs Hawk

[Patler]

In discussing age versus maturity and how the two do not necessarily coincide, someone drew the comparison of AJ Hawk vs Ahmad Carroll. So, how much older do you think Carroll is? He has two NFL seasons in already, so what is the age difference? Five months! Carroll was born August 4, 1983. Hawk was born Jan. 6, 1984.

That is why I have preached patience with Carroll. He is very young, even yet.

[Bretsky]

Re: Age versus maturity, Carroll vs Hawk

In discussing age versus maturity and how the two do not necessarily coincide, someone drew the comparison of AJ Hawk vs Ahmad Carroll. So, how much older do you think Carroll is? He has two NFL seasons in already, so what is the age difference? Five months! Carroll was born August 4, 1983. Hawk was born Jan. 6, 1984.

That is why I have preached patience with Carroll. He is very young, even yet.

I've ripped Carrol's immaturity before. But he can grow up. But can his football instincts grow up ? He covers pretty well actually.

But he doesn't see, judge, or play the ball well at all. Some are very natural at that. Mike McKenzie comes to mind. Some are just plain old terrible at that. Ahmad Carroll comes to mind.

That is what has to improve for Carroll to be worthy of his first round selection.

[GrnBay007]

Re: Age versus maturity, Carroll vs Hawk

But he doesn't see, judge, or play the ball well at all. Some are very natural at that. Mike McKenzie comes to mind. Some are just plain old terrible at that. Ahmad Carroll comes to mind.

That is what has to improve for Carroll to be worthy of his first round selection.

Mac is 30 I think. Wonder how he was playing when he was Carroll's age?

[Patler]

I wasn't debating his skills, natural or developed, just how he acts. Most will agree that he does act immature at times, and I wanted to point out how young he really is.

After looking into it even more, Carroll is actually younger than 8 of the Packer draft picks this year. Carroll was born 8/4/83, some in this years Packer rookie class:

Tollefson 5/19/81
Colledge 2/11/82
Martin 8/15/82
Hodge 9/9/82
Spitz 12/9/82
Rodgers 2/2/83
Jolly 2/21/83
Culver 7/6/83

Ahmad Carroll 8/4/83

[Bretsky]

Re: Age versus maturity, Carroll vs Hawk

But he doesn't see, judge, or play the ball well at all. Some are very natural at that. Mike McKenzie comes to mind. Some are just plain old terrible at that. Ahmad Carroll comes to mind.

That is what has to improve for Carroll to be worthy of his first round selection.

Mac is 30 I think. Wonder how he was playing when he was Carroll's age?

Honestly Mike McKenzie came in here from day 1 as a rookie and showed the natural ball skills. He was a third round draft pick in a year when the Packers also drafted two other CB's (Antoine Edwards and Fred Vinson) in rounds one and two. Edwards and Vinson never made it and MM played well from day one.

There are a lot of players who come in with the instincs/skills to play the ball. MM just stuck out as a Packer who did that well from day 1 where Carroll has not.

B

[Bretsky]

I wasn't debating his skills, natural or developed, just how he acts. Most will agree that he does act immature at times, and I wanted to point out how young he really is.

After looking into it even more, Carroll is actually younger than 8 of the Packer draft picks this year. Carroll was born 8/4/83, some in this years Packer rookie class:

Tollefson 5/19/81
Colledge 2/11/82
Martin 8/15/82
Hodge 9/9/82
Spitz 12/9/82
Rodgers 2/2/83
Jolly 2/21/83
Culver 7/6/83

Ahmad Carroll 8/4/83

Your point is well taken regarding the youth; but Mike Sherman and Green Bay needed somebody to play short term with that pick.

In retrospect, with Green Bay still considered a legitimate playoff threat at the time Carroll was selected in round one...........his youth and where the Packers were at adds even more to the argument that Green Bay should have selected Chris Gamble.........who is nothing spectacular but still a step above Carroll IMO.

[Patler]

Bretsky sometimes you sure are a broken record! I guess its my fault for even starting a topic concerning Ahmad carroll!

I really have no interest in rehashing yet again the Chambers vs. Ferguson and Gamble vs. Carroll debates. What is done is done. It is extremely easy to go back in any draft and point out better selections. DO you buy or sell stocks? If you do, I bet you agonize over buying a day too late or selling a day to early!

(BTW, I'm not that sold on Gamble. )

[Patler]

Re: Age versus maturity, Carroll vs Hawk

Honestly Mike McKenzie came in here from day 1 as a rookie and showed the natural ball skills. He was a third round draft pick in a year when the Packers also drafted two other CB's (Antoine Edwards and Fred Vinson) in rounds one and two. Edwards and Vinson never made it and MM played well from day one.

There are a lot of players who come in with the instincs/skills to play the ball. MM just stuck out as a Packer who did that well from day 1 where Carroll has not.
B

But that isn't surprising with Carroll. His lack of natural ball skills was known in college. Not all cornerbacks have the natural ability to adjust and catch.

Wolf insisted even after he was traded that Fred Vinson would have been the best of the three cornerbacks drafted that year, if he hadn't gotten injured. Wolf said the Green for Vinson trade had the potential to make either team look bad, because both had the potential to become great players.

[SD GB fan]

while wat everyone says about carroll is true, he is still a great athlete. if he continues to improve like he did last season, he will be good on this packers team. but i think hes gonna be a hell of a nickelback this year

[MadtownPacker]

Carroll is gonna take over the #2 at some point this season!

Yeah that's right quote me Bretsky, print it, laminate it and then keep it until January! Then you can look at it and mutter to yourself "I'm sorry I ever doubted you Ahmad. The Rock, 007, and Mad where right".

Feeling it may be him and Woodson.

[Patler]

Carroll is gonna take over the #2 at some point this season!

Yeah that's right quote me Bretsky, print it, laminate it and then keep it until January! Then you can look at it and mutter to yourself "I'm sorry I ever doubted you Ahmad. The Rock, 007, and Mad where right".

Feeling it may be him and Woodson.

I kind of feel that way too. I left the 2005 season with a feeling of concern over Harris. Something happened to him the last 4 or 5 games. He started to look like an old player. I didn't hear about any injury. I sure hope it was just the effects of a LONG season in 2005.

[Tarlam!]

I left the 2005 season with a feeling of concern over Harris. Something happened to him the last 4 or 5 games. He started to look like an old player.

I don't like reading this at all. I hope the addition of Woodson revitalizes Harris.

Maybe Harris was just seeing the season out without wanting to risk injury. 4 games out, everyone knew we were in the midst of a losing season...

[Fritz]

What's nice is that the team seems to have some options at CB. So if Al Harris has suddenly aged, or Woodson proves to be slow, you've got Carroll (if he can keep his hands off receivers) and even the almost-forgotten Mike Hawkins as possibilities. It ain't Willie Davis and company, but it's better than Patrick Dendry.

[MJZiggy]

My bad. Was gonna use JWalk but was sick of talking about him.

[swede]

Re: Age versus maturity, Carroll vs Hawk

Wolf insisted even after he was traded that Fred Vinson would have been the best of the three cornerbacks drafted that year, if he hadn't gotten injured. Wolf said the Green for Vinson trade had the potential to make either team look bad, because both had the potential to become great players.

And the check is in the mail and I promise to respect you in the morning.

I think that Darth Wolf was protecting the feelings of Mike Skywalker on that one.

Ahman Green had had at least one 100 yard game with Seattle, and, other than the fumbling, had looked darn good. I don't recall Vinson ever showing much other than a propensity for injury. ( In my fantasy league I picked Green up after a 100 yd. game he'd had with Seattle in a desperate attempt to replace one of my two injured RB's. After a hot start in the very next game he got benched for fumbling, so after the season Holmgren taught him a lesson for all of his fumbling problems by packing him off to Green Bay. And I ended up in my usual Fantasy Football perch in the cellar.)