Favre

[MJZiggy]

Ziggy,sorry I just don't think Rodgers will be any good,well maybe he will be ok talent wise but I think he is a puss. But it could be that I am a little spoiled by having Iron Man Favre at the helm for so long.

While I agree with what you say, Ted Thompson actually put it pretty well when he said that there WILL come a day when Brett Favre is no longer playing football for the Green Bay Packers. One day he will retire, and we don't intend to close up shop when he does...(or something very similar to that). He has a point. Much as MOST of us want him to play, he won't be here that much longer if he stays...(in other words, we're a little spoiled)

[Bretsky]

So is the consensus that Favre played just fine last night, and that other factors are to blame for our offense struggling? I'd like to hear as many opinions on this as possible.

Favre played below average last night; he had some misreads and some bad throws. He was out of rhythym.

MM didn't help him one bit. On a night when the five wide and quick hitters could have exposed a weak Giants secondary, Green Bay chose to keep their RB's and TE's in to pass block way too often. They must have thought our OL could not handle the Giants DL one on one.

Honestly, who didn't play poorly last night ?

The OL run blocking was horrid
The DL rushing Defense was well below average and the pass rush was horrid
Harris stunk but when you give Eli Manning enough time to count 99 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL all the way down to ONE BOTTLE left the secondary is pretty much hosed anyways.

Bigby and Poppinga looked good. Crosby was alright.

But other than that the team, Favre included, did not play well

I still disagree with the offensive line being horrid. There was only one maybe two plays where Grant was actually held to a loss on the play. The run blocking wasn't great, but the fact that the coaching staff only ran the ball 13 times and Grant's foul play I tend to say the offensive line really didn't get a legit opportunity to run the football successfully.

We just have to agree to disagree here; I thought Grant ran hard and as well as he could. Ran hard and fell forward like he always does. He had a thirteen yard gain on one play. Besides that he had 12 carries for 16 yards. Colledge was dominated. Wells and Spitz were often in the backfield. Tauscher played well against Strahan. Clifton seemed OK.

I would agree that MM did not give the OL enough of a chance.

On the other hand, MM may have just realized the OL was not good enough to establish a running game.

[twoseven]

First of all let me say hi I don't post much I am more of a lurker. But after hearing all of this get rid off Bret talk I can't take it anymore. I am not a football expert by any means,but due to medical problems I am a stay at home dad. This means I watch a TON of football and football related shows. All I can say guys and girls is there ain't to many better or even equal to old number 4 even at his age. You can't discount his reliablity,over half of gettin the job done is being there week in and out to gwt the job done. Another thing is everyone says he can't play in the cold. People even in Greenbay this weather is the exception not the rule. I spend a lot of time outdoors year round and even with todays clothing functioning in weather like that is tough. Also why would you build a team for weather like this,it is so infrequent yes even in Wi that it would be a waste. I feel alot of blame for this game should go on the coaching staff. The packers were not simply out played they were very out coached. Inow several of you agree with this so how come no one has been calling for MCcarthy's head like you have Favre's. They both were partially responsible for the loss. But they also both were the reason we were there to lose to begin with.

I'm not exactly sure where you are reading 'all this get rid of Brett talk..' I certainly don't see it prevailing in this string, I see the opposite. I certainly hope that being critical of Brett's play Sunday night is not a punishable offense at this point, he is human.

As for building a cold weather team being a waste...Let's just pretend that Brett (or any Packer for that matter) is no longer capable of performing in temps that fall below 15-20 degrees, I am in no way saying he has. For the sake of hypothetical discussion, do you actually push forward and deal with this knowing full well that it gets damn cold at Lambeau every late December and January? Things will be tip top September through November and early December. But, if the final hurdle to a SB may just include a battle with the temperature gauge and your leader (and whoever else), how do you handle things at that point? If cold weather is what you will face one or two steps before a SB, how wasteful is it to factor this into your team building strategy? Temps that fall between 10 degrees and subzero temps are NOT abnormal in WI in January. Again, hypothetical discussion, not accusation, right here..anyone care to comment?

[cpk1994]

So is the consensus that Favre played just fine last night, and that other factors are to blame for our offense struggling? I'd like to hear as many opinions on this as possible.

Favre played below average last night; he had some misreads and some bad throws. He was out of rhythym.

MM didn't help him one bit. On a night when the five wide and quick hitters could have exposed a weak Giants secondary, Green Bay chose to keep their RB's and TE's in to pass block way too often. They must have thought our OL could not handle the Giants DL one on one.

Honestly, who didn't play poorly last night ?

The OL run blocking was horrid
The DL rushing Defense was well below average and the pass rush was horrid
Harris stunk but when you give Eli Manning enough time to count 99 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL all the way down to ONE BOTTLE left the secondary is pretty much hosed anyways.

Bigby and Poppinga looked good. Crosby was alright.

But other than that the team, Favre included, did not play well

I still disagree with the offensive line being horrid. There was only one maybe two plays where Grant was actually held to a loss on the play. The run blocking wasn't great, but the fact that the coaching staff only ran the ball 13 times and Grant's foul play I tend to say the offensive line really didn't get a legit opportunity to run the football successfully.

We just have to agree to disagree here; I thought Grant ran hard and as well as he could. Ran hard and fell forward like he always does. He had a thirteen yard gain on one play. Besides that he had 12 carries for 16 yards. Colledge was dominated. Wells and Spitz were often in the backfield. Tauscher played well against Strahan. Clifton seemed OK.

I would agree that MM did not give the OL enough of a chance.

On the other hand, MM may have just realized the OL was not good enough to establish a running game.

If M3 came to that realization and decided not to run the ball becuase of it, he is hitting Mike Sherman levels of stupidity. No matter how much you struggle, you must keep doing it unless you are way behind, which they weren't.

[packinpatland]

I really would be OK with Brett retiring. He's done it all. With the team as young as it is, perhaps now is a good time to bring in a younger QB.....they can 'grow old together'.

[denverYooper]

And if Favre reads the blitz correctly, he has a TE in the pattern to threaten the middle.

There were a few nice plays to Donald Lee in the middle. It's too bad they didn't send him out more.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Favre played good in the first half, but looked lost and confused in the second. Sometimes his picks look so bad you wonder if he threw it on purpose.

MM also had a bad game plan. On the first two plays of the game, I was like OK we are about to kill this team, but after that his play calling got very uncreative and dumb. Also as many have said already, why did he max protect in the game? Why did we revert back to 2006? We did not go to the championship game by max protecting and I didn't understand why he started in that game. I would rather make the another team beat me then play scared and basically lose the game.

[fan4life]

I watched the tape again yesterday (with the sound turned off.) In the calm of knowing the outcome, I have to say: give the NYG credit, please. It was disappointing to get so far and not take the final step... but stop looking to place blame for the failure to win. Both teams fought hard down to the wire and left everything on the field.

NY has a big, strong front 7 that handled our O-line, especially Colledge. Spag's defense is designed to disguise pressure, and mess with protection schemes, which it did to perfection. Much like the Eagles' defense, the way to attack that defense is to run the ball... and throw deep out of play-action to WRs who can beat their coverage. Favre was rarely comfortable in the pocket and even when he had time to throw, NYs scrappy secondary was in our WRs faces disrupting and dictating their routes. The dbs were sitting on the short slants and outs.... you saw what happened in OT when Brett tried to throw a short out to Donald. That could have happened a lot more. Unfortunately, I think the weather affected both Brett and the WRs ability to connect downfield, too (wobbly, poor throws and dropped passes). That, and the relentless pressure to hurry throws contributed to our normally smooth offense looking terribly out of sync.

If Green Bay is going to take their game to the next level (you have to expect that Chicago, Philly and DAL are going to continue to be strong) then TT needs to bring in bigger, stronger guards. The only time GB (and other WCOs) have been successful against Jimmy Johnson's Eagles defensive schemes (and now Spagnuola's) is when Green could pound the ball and Brett could take selective shots downfield out of play-action. Yesterday, GB couldn't run the ball with any authority and that was ultimatley their undoing.

On the other side, GBs defense couldn't get off the field. NY sustained long drives that -quite litterally- froze our offense on the sidelines. They ran the ball with authority, and Manning had time to find his big, physical receivers often enough to be effective.

The NYG earned their win yesterday. Sure, GB had a chance at the end, but when the game goes down to the wire, its a crap-shoot at best. GB was fortunate that the game went to OT. Having been stopped on the final couple of drives in regulation, it was not a given that Favre & Co could march down the field and get into scoring position. Favre and DD tried to make a play, but -once again- NY made a better one.

There are things GB can do to get better, but there just wasn't much more they could do in that game. Why is that so hard for some fans to get? Why do they attack and blame players who are willing to put everything on the line, risking failure, but come up a little short?

It was a great year and I've made my peace with how it ended. GB got beat Sunday by a strong, physical, scrappy team that earned everything they got.
Meanwhile, our veterans Favre, DD, Donald Lee, KRob, Tauscher and Cliffy showed that, while not invincible, they can play with the best of them. Jennings, Martin, and Jones showed real talent, but also that they need to play with more grit (like Plaxico Buress, T.O., Wes Welker and DD). Grant has potential, but needs an O-line and schemes that can open holes against big DTs. GBs defense improved over last year, but it is not championship level, yet. Better play from the defensive backfield and more pressure from the front 7 is needed; whether that comes from personnel or schemes is for the coaches to ponder (hint: I think it is schemes.)

As Larry McCarren often says, "Sometimes, you don't do anything wrong, you just get beat. The other guys get paid to play, too, you know."

[Bossman641]

Did I watch the same game some of you did? I keep reading about the Giants' relentless pass rush? WHAT? Favre probably only got hit a few times the whole game. On most plays he had a beautiful pocket to step into. I thought the pass-blocking was quite good. Now if you want to say that was only due to us keeping extra blockers in that is another thing.

It was a bad game all around. Bad run-blocking, gave up on the run way too soon, bad throws from Favre, some drops by the WR's. UGLY.

[fan4life]

Did I watch the same game some of you did? I keep reading about the Giants' relentless pass rush? WHAT? Favre probably only got hit a few times the whole game. On most plays he had a beautiful pocket to step into. I thought the pass-blocking was quite good. Now if you want to say that was only due to us keeping extra blockers in that is another thing.

It was a bad game all around. Bad run-blocking, gave up on the run way too soon, bad throws from Favre, some drops by the WR's. UGLY.

Favre had time to throw a number of times because they kept in the TE's and RBs (max-protect.) He had a good pocket, but his only throws were downfield to WRs who were covered. When he didn't keep in blockers, they were in his face. He dumped off a couple to Morency, who was tackled well short of 1st down marker (he slipped and fell on one which surely would have gone for a 1st down.) On another play, Favre lobbed it over the linemens' head for Grant - who wasn't ready for the ball because he was still engaged by a db; the play went for naught, but it was better than taking a sack for a loss.

And let's not even talk about the screen passes that weren't blocked upfield.

You're right.... UGLY, the combination of good coverage and poor execution of a flawed game plan. My point is, Favre wasn't superhuman, but he wasn't the only reason the team lost, either.

[Fosco33]

Nobody can say for sure in regards to anything when it comes to Rodgers.

I have 0 confidence in ARod. He's played in 2 games in 2 years and couldn't make it for the rest of the season either time.

Ditch him for a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

Part of me is ok if Brett retires now - never thought I'd come to that point. He just didn't look like he was having any fun on Sunday and the cold was clearly getting to him...

[woodbuck27]

Re: Favre

Is it just me or did anyone else watchign the game, start to worry when they showed Favre in the tunnel, before introductions.

He looked COLD and not very excited to be playing in an NFC Championship game. I expected the Pack to win, up until I saw the look on Favre's face......

I definitely noticed that he wasn't as focused as he was in the Settle game. I wouldn't even be that mad about his performance if he would just not throw those dumb ass picks with the game on the line. I would rather have seen a punt in overtime and have the defense lose the game instead of losing because Favre just has one of his give up plays.

It was cold as hell...not many were smiling...and the pick was not a give up play just a bad throw on an out route if I remember....Grant was open after he released and that was a throw #4 should have made.

It was a really low percentage play call given the conditions. Way too much margin for error. Think back on the perspective bet. the defender and Driver.

It was a pick ALL DAY. STUPID CALL.

A lamb to slaughter.

[Merlin]

This game was reminiscent of the first Bears game this season. We had plays that worked in the first half effectively but abandoned them in the second half. When we ran play action out of a normal running formation, the Giants defense didn't cover well and we were successful moving the ball that way. Only when we went to 4-5 WR's a lot in the second half did we not move the ball very well. We needed to come out with the same strategy in the second half but did not. The play action should not have worked at all in this game because we couldn't run the ball. However, it did work when we ran it. The Giants bit every time. We knew they would not pressure Favre and we knew they were going to stack the run. For whatever reason, it worked and we stopped doing it.

Al Harris did not have a bad game. Not by any stretch. Burris had an awesome game, the best game I have seen a WR have this season in fact. Harris had coverage 99% of the time but Burris would make the catch, usually some kind of outstanding catch at that. Burris didn't have a TD and although he racked up some yards, it wasn't the dagger people are making it out to be.

The officiating was not all that great and they let the Giants WR get away with everything accept once. Our WR's were being held, interfered with and hardly any calls our way. That part was a poor officiating. Not to mention Eli's acting job on the personal foul. Favre got the wood laid to him when his hands were at his side and there was no call. Again, double standard.

The main reason we lost was the second half play calling. Our defense did a good job for being out there as long as they were. Even after Favre's last INT, they only gave up a few yards to force a field goal attempt. They did their jobs pretty well considering the amount of time on the field. Favre did not lose this game, he is not too old, he is not a choke artist, and he doesn't need to retire because he still has the skills. Harris is aging but by no means a bad player and his skills don't appear to be declining.

Everyone figured after the huge Seahawk win that we could keep with the status quo and win the game. McCarthy said as much, as did the players. They did not implement very many new plays at all if any. Their strategy was the same against an opponent with a better defense then Seattle. It was the wrong strategy and one I am certain McCarthy will never make again. He doesn't make the same mistake twice and that's why I love the guy.

I expect that Favre will be back and next season will be a great one. McCarthy won and lost his first playoff games this season and that isn't too bad for a no-name coach who came from the worst offense in the NFL.

Here's to hoping the Patriots lose and go 18-1, that Favre returns next season, that McCarthy's coaching will only get better, and Favre retires after a 19-0 2008 season after his final record to break.

[The Leaper]

I have 0 confidence in ARod. He's played in 2 games in 2 years and couldn't make it for the rest of the season either time.

He played well against a decent Dallas defense in a hostile environment after little practice time with the #1 offense, working in a system TAILORED to suit Brett Favre, not whoever the flavor-of-the-month backup is.

I'd hardly say that I have zero confidence in Rodgers. I'm also not going to christen him the next starting QB for the Packers. At this point, he is a capable backup that comes at a good price with some upside. He's also still one of the youngest QBs in the league who seems to be soaking in a lot of valuable experience from watching Favre week in and week out.

How are you going to do better Fosco? What good QB is going to come to Green Bay and sit on his ass behind Favre? Favre, if he returns, is the #1 QB. We can't tell someone they will be given a chance to be the starter. That eliminates just about any of the top 45 QBs in the league who feel they have a shot at being a starter...even if it with a poor team.

Rodgers is the best we can do at this point...a young kid with reasonable upside who comes at a reasonable price.

[Fosco33]

I have 0 confidence in ARod. He's played in 2 games in 2 years and couldn't make it for the rest of the season either time.

He played well against a decent Dallas defense in a hostile environment after little practice time with the #1 offense, working in a system TAILORED to suit Brett Favre, not whoever the flavor-of-the-month backup is.

I'd hardly say that I have zero confidence in Rodgers. I'm also not going to christen him the next starting QB for the Packers. At this point, he is a capable backup that comes at a good price with some upside. He's also still one of the youngest QBs in the league who seems to be soaking in a lot of valuable experience from watching Favre week in and week out.

How are you going to do better Fosco? What good QB is going to come to Green Bay and sit on his ass behind Favre? Favre, if he returns, is the #1 QB. We can't tell someone they will be given a chance to be the starter. That eliminates just about any of the top 45 QBs in the league who feel they have a shot at being a starter...even if it with a poor team.

Rodgers is the best we can do at this point...a young kid with reasonable upside who comes at a reasonable price.

Should we change the offensive scheme to fit the QBs style - to some degree yes - but you have to have your QB adapt to the system of design in case of injury.

I just don't see any durability in Rodgers. He did display and give me a little confidence with his ability but he's had 2 near season ending injuries in the last 2 years (this last one he could've played in the very last game or the playoffs). To me - he's like Blackmon - a guy with potential that can't stay off the training table....

Would I give him a shot to start if Favre retires - absolutely! If I thought I could get a QB with more upside via FA or drafting would I ditch him now (while the value is still there) - yes.

Would I expect him to finish the season (or make it through a month of hits) - no. Therefore, I'm looking for a capable journeyman backup and drafting a relatively high (1st-3rd round) QB. Unlike this year, when we didn't staff the emergency QB as one of 52 (until after Dallas), I'd have 3 QBs (and a few on my mind to bring in later).