Packers Fans Feeling Better?

[MJZiggy]

For just a second I thought I was reading a post by Madtown...I agree. If all the players tried to force their way to the good teams, how are crappy teams ever going to acquire the talent that they are supposed to be able to get when they "earn" high draft picks? If you don't like the idea of playing on a losing team, go in and play your ass off and make them better. That's the whole idea.

[woodbuck27]

I don't know why anybody would want a team that beats them to then stink it up.

I was glad the Giants won, and it reflects well on the Packers.

Yes!

Now let's go to the heart of it or what went wrong with our team or why we lost.

It was the playoff's and we went all the way to the NFC Championship. Way over the top better than most Packer fans ever expected or even realistically should have hoped for.

The playoff's expose every team's weakness and dispenses with that team accordingly. Why? Because the opposition knows all about those weakness's and how to game plan to exploit them.

The cream generally does rise to the top; but one must never underestimate the power of a team as a whole, believing in themselves and doing so calmly without adding undo pressure. That means not getting wrapped up in the media hype and believing it.

Games are won on the field through proper execution. Before that the team's personnel and system must have better strength than it's oponents. One works hand in hand with the other and seldom are pretenders allowed to prevail.

The Green Bay Packers are 'in fact ' close now and the question is will the POWERS that are. . . BE, Losing next season isn't acceptable to me as a Packer fan. I will be watching it all very carefully; beeming with interest this off season.

PACKERS FOREVER!

[Tyrone Bigguns]

For just a second I thought I was reading a post by Madtown...I agree. If all the players tried to force their way to the good teams, how are crappy teams ever going to acquire the talent that they are supposed to be able to get when they "earn" high draft picks? If you don't like the idea of playing on a losing team, go in and play your ass off and make them better. That's the whole idea.

San Diego was far from being a crappy team.

It would be closer to say that he forced his way to a crappier team.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

It really didn't cross my mind until a few people brought it up. I was just so excited for Manning, Coughlin and the rest of the over scrutinized NY Giants team. I was also happy to see the Patriots lose.

Now that I think about it though, Yes I am happy. It shows the Packers are close to the best and they're young enough to take big leaps if their guys work harder than NFL average this off season.

I agree exept about Manning. He is still a punk.

manning is a punk? WTF are you smoking?

How soon you forget the day he was drafted and the crap that he and his dick of a father pulled. Im sorry, I have no repsect for someone who dictates to the NFl who he will and will not play for if drafted. That is also why I cannot and will never like John Elway.

Yeah, god forbid in this country someone gets to choose their employer.

But, it is just fine when a player loves the team, the city and the fans...and the team trades him?

Go back to first grade.

But we don't sign a paper putting ourselves itno a pool of talent with special rules designed to locate you. What that scumbag and his dick father did was circumvent the rules of the draft. DId Peyton complain and threaten not to play if the Colts drafted him knowing full well how horrid of a franchise they were? No. Peyton acted like a man and went to the team that drafted him. But, no Eli had to act like a self serving whiny punk ass bitch. But I guess thats becuase all Archie has is to mooch off the legacy of his kids since he doesn't have any championships of his own to speak of. Eli and Archie could learn a lot from Peyton.

Sorry, but he didn't do that. The chargers made a decision to trade him. They could have kept him and played it out. That was their choice.

They also could have decided not to draft him.

Furthermore, reality doesn't back up your crappy team perspective. In theory, the draft seems like a good idea: by allowing the weaker teams to draft earlier from the pool of talent, they can select the better players, thus becoming more competitive.

In reality, the history of the N.F.L. draft shows minimal success in achieving competitive balance. Perennial losers like the Houston Texans, the New Orleans Saints, Arizona Cardinals, etc. have been drafting early for god knows how long.

Most will not be drafted by the team for which they wish to play, by the team that they will help the most, or by the team that will best further their career.

The NFL is exempt from anti trust, not specific teams.

BTW, you manning logic makes no sense whatsover. Archie and Eli made their decision long before Peyton had any rings..so Archie certainly wasn't mooching.

And, Archie's legacy is quite solid regardless of his children. He is beloved in the south and new orleans.

Still mad about Curt Flood as well?

[Scott Campbell]

What if you were by far the best player in a draft class, and the Bears had the first pick?

I can tell you right now, I would NEVER play for the Bears. I don't care how much money they were willing to pay, or how much pressure the NFL community put on me.

[Charles Woodson]

It really didn't cross my mind until a few people brought it up. I was just so excited for Manning, Coughlin and the rest of the over scrutinized NY Giants team. I was also happy to see the Patriots lose.

Now that I think about it though, Yes I am happy. It shows the Packers are close to the best and they're young enough to take big leaps if their guys work harder than NFL average this off season.

I agree exept about Manning. He is still a punk.

manning is a punk? WTF are you smoking?

How soon you forget the day he was drafted and the crap that he and his dick of a father pulled. Im sorry, I have no repsect for someone who dictates to the NFl who he will and will not play for if drafted. That is also why I cannot and will never like John Elway.

Yeah, god forbid in this country someone gets to choose their employer.

But, it is just fine when a player loves the team, the city and the fans...and the team trades him?

Go back to first grade.

But we don't sign a paper putting ourselves itno a pool of talent with special rules designed to locate you. What that scumbag and his dick father did was circumvent the rules of the draft. DId Peyton complain and threaten not to play if the Colts drafted him knowing full well how horrid of a franchise they were? No. Peyton acted like a man and went to the team that drafted him. But, no Eli had to act like a self serving whiny punk ass bitch. But I guess thats becuase all Archie has is to mooch off the legacy of his kids since he doesn't have any championships of his own to speak of. Eli and Archie could learn a lot from Peyton.

Sorry, but he didn't do that. The chargers made a decision to trade him. They could have kept him and played it out. That was their choice.

They also could have decided not to draft him.

Furthermore, reality doesn't back up your crappy team perspective. In theory, the draft seems like a good idea: by allowing the weaker teams to draft earlier from the pool of talent, they can select the better players, thus becoming more competitive.

In reality, the history of the N.F.L. draft shows minimal success in achieving competitive balance. Perennial losers like the Houston Texans, the New Orleans Saints, Arizona Cardinals, etc. have been drafting early for god knows how long.

Most will not be drafted by the team for which they wish to play, by the team that they will help the most, or by the team that will best further their career.

Do you just type random things when you post? cause you really need to read them through and realize that they dont make sense.
The first part of your post states that they could have not traded him, and kept. And what would that accomplish? a wasted number one pick because he threatened that he would hold out the whole year and go back to the draft the following one.. You said they could have not drafted him? Why they obviously were set on him being their franchise QB, he doesnt get to dictate that, once he becomes a Free Agent he does.

The next part about the draft....
Your example of the Saints made no sense, because they drafted in the 2nd spot two years ago, and the next year they had the 27th spot... Clearly that is a big change and the draft was a major part. You also cant make the argument that it doesnt help to draft in a higher position because it does matter. it is easier to pick out a stud if you have a top 5 pick then if you have the 25, unfortunately there are some stupid GM's that dont know how to draft... IE Randy Muehller-Miami's former GM

All in all this concludes that Eli will always be overshadowed by his draft day bullshit.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

It really didn't cross my mind until a few people brought it up. I was just so excited for Manning, Coughlin and the rest of the over scrutinized NY Giants team. I was also happy to see the Patriots lose.

Now that I think about it though, Yes I am happy. It shows the Packers are close to the best and they're young enough to take big leaps if their guys work harder than NFL average this off season.

I agree exept about Manning. He is still a punk.

manning is a punk? WTF are you smoking?

How soon you forget the day he was drafted and the crap that he and his dick of a father pulled. Im sorry, I have no repsect for someone who dictates to the NFl who he will and will not play for if drafted. That is also why I cannot and will never like John Elway.

Yeah, god forbid in this country someone gets to choose their employer.

But, it is just fine when a player loves the team, the city and the fans...and the team trades him?

Go back to first grade.

But we don't sign a paper putting ourselves itno a pool of talent with special rules designed to locate you. What that scumbag and his dick father did was circumvent the rules of the draft. DId Peyton complain and threaten not to play if the Colts drafted him knowing full well how horrid of a franchise they were? No. Peyton acted like a man and went to the team that drafted him. But, no Eli had to act like a self serving whiny punk ass bitch. But I guess thats becuase all Archie has is to mooch off the legacy of his kids since he doesn't have any championships of his own to speak of. Eli and Archie could learn a lot from Peyton.

Sorry, but he didn't do that. The chargers made a decision to trade him. They could have kept him and played it out. That was their choice.

They also could have decided not to draft him.

Furthermore, reality doesn't back up your crappy team perspective. In theory, the draft seems like a good idea: by allowing the weaker teams to draft earlier from the pool of talent, they can select the better players, thus becoming more competitive.

In reality, the history of the N.F.L. draft shows minimal success in achieving competitive balance. Perennial losers like the Houston Texans, the New Orleans Saints, Arizona Cardinals, etc. have been drafting early for god knows how long.

Most will not be drafted by the team for which they wish to play, by the team that they will help the most, or by the team that will best further their career.

Do you just type random things when you post? cause you really need to read them through and realize that they dont make sense.
The first part of your post states that they could have not traded him, and kept. And what would that accomplish? a wasted number one pick because he threatened that he would hold out the whole year and go back to the draft the following one.. You said they could have not drafted him? Why they obviously were set on him being their franchise QB, he doesnt get to dictate that, once he becomes a Free Agent he does.

The next part about the draft....
Your example of the Saints made no sense, because they drafted in the 2nd spot two years ago, and the next year they had the 27th spot... Clearly that is a big change and the draft was a major part. You also cant make the argument that it doesnt help to draft in a higher position because it does matter. it is easier to pick out a stud if you have a top 5 pick then if you have the 25, unfortunately there are some stupid GM's that dont know how to draft... IE Randy Muehller-Miami's former GM

All in all this concludes that Eli will always be overshadowed by his draft day bullshit.

You aren't very good at compehending. Before you start ranting, you should make sure you understand what i'm saying...cause it is clear that you don't.

1. Not traded. They could have called his bluff. That is an option. He THREATEND. That doesn't mean it is a certainty.

Are you that stupid or naive. For example, we heard all off season that Charlie Bell would never play for the Bucks..yet, there he is in the lineup.

Every year there are acrimonious negotiations. NEGOTIATIONS. That is how you get what you want. I won't play here, it has gone too far, the team has disrespected me, etc. The team says..missing alot of training camp, vets talk about getting your ass in, we only have X amount for him, won't be able to start, etc.

You act like all the risk is assumed by the team. If he were to sit out the year there is no guarantee that he would have been drafted as high..Mike Williams scenario. Or that other teams wouldn't have pulled the same thing on him...and he would NEVER play in the league. Or, that the incalculable damage to his rep would of hurt his potential endorsement deals.

My guess is you aren't a very good card player. I'll take you down with nothing in my hand.

2. If he was to be their franchise QB, then they surely wouldn't have traded for Phillip Rivers. If he was so essential they would have figured it out.

More importantly...was there a gun being put to their head to draft him? No. So, they made a mistake by doing so.

Plenty of teams don't draft players for non football reasons..has a bad attitude, hard to coach, won't like being in a big city, won't like being in a small town, scored too low on the wonderlic, etc.

Is Manning's bad attitude any different than implying that GB is a small town and that it doesn't have alot to do. Or a player that likes to party all the time. If a gm hears that and still drafts the player, and said player is a malcontent because he hates his environment..who is really at fault? THE FREAKING GM.

Under your rubric, all of Moss's bad attitude shouldn't factor into a decison.

Have you considered that SD took him knowing full well that they intended to trade him? Teams often do that when they know another team really wants that specific player. A team might do that..like..wait for it..wait for it..LIKE SAN DIEGO DID WITH VICK. I wonder who came out on top of that deal..hmm, brees and LT for a guy who barely led his team to the playoffs and now is in prison.

3. Saints. We are talking historically. They have been a poor franchise for years. One or two successful years doesn't change the fact that they have been drafting top 10 for prolly (patler, look it up please) 90% of their existence. The Pats have been great for the past 7 years and don't draft at the top of the draft. Neither did dynasties like the Cowboys or Niners.

BTW, nice of you to avoid the Texans and the Cardinals. Or closer to home, the detroit lions.

And, then you destroy your own argument by noting that no matter where you draft a poor gm kills it. Exactly.

The fact is that placement in the draft is no guarantee of success. Otherwise the three teams i mentioned would be at the top.

In theory, the draft seems like a good idea: by allowing the weaker teams to draft earlier from the pool of talent, they can select the better players, thus becoming more competitive.

But, it doesn't work out that way.

This is because the N.F.L. draft is a guessing game. For example, 10 years ago the New York Jets selected wide receiver Keyshawn Johnson first overall. The Jacksonville Jaguars selected linebacker Kevin Hardy second. Neither has had a superstar career. On the other hand, linebacker Ray Lewis of Baltimore, the 26th pick that year, and linebacker Tedy Bruschi of the Patriots, the 86th pick, have been All-Pros who led their respective teams to a combined four Super Bowl titles.

Oh, yeah..some QB for the pack was a second rounder, Montana a third, Brady a sixth, etc.

Often you have teams that draft the wrong type of player for their team. OR just bad players.

Funny, i'm willing to bet that most everybody on this board pretty much understands the concept of a free-market..except when it comes to football.

Free agency for rookies would probably create more geographic rivalries among teams, with players who went to college in a particular region more likely to play for N.F.L. teams there. It would allow college players to select the pro teams that have the offensive or defensive schemes that best suit their talents. The result would be a more competitive league.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

What if you were by far the best player in a draft class, and the Bears had the first pick?

I can tell you right now, I would NEVER play for the Bears. I don't care how much money they were willing to pay, or how much pressure the NFL community put on me.

Scott Campbell, you are gutless punk.

[Scott Campbell]

What if you were by far the best player in a draft class, and the Bears had the first pick?

I can tell you right now, I would NEVER play for the Bears. I don't care how much money they were willing to pay, or how much pressure the NFL community put on me.

Scott Campbell, you are gutless punk.

If I were a gutless punk, I would play for the Bears. I think its a prerequisite.

[HarveyWallbangers]

For just a second I thought I was reading a post by Madtown...I agree. If all the players tried to force their way to the good teams, how are crappy teams ever going to acquire the talent that they are supposed to be able to get when they "earn" high draft picks? If you don't like the idea of playing on a losing team, go in and play your ass off and make them better. That's the whole idea.

Agreed.

[twoseven]

Is it gutless to make your true intentions known before a team invests it's future in you with their selection, or after you are already on the team? It may be all kinds of negative things, but it certainly isn't gutless.

That being said Eli should have kept his non-gutless big mouth shut and went wherver he was chosen.

That being said, Eli got wrung through the wringer about that draft and his play every year since that draft and has dealt with more criticism than most could take. He hung in there and made in happen in a city that doesn't forgive you for much. Cut him some slack already, he took his lumps about 50 times over and didn't quit, then he took down the Patriots. Would you rather we were getting cascaded with Patriot rah rah for the next 7 months?

[Deputy Nutz]

All I have to say is there is over 1500 players in the NFL and I don't have to like every single one of them.

Eli is one I don't like, he is always making those meally mouth faces when things don't go right. He was the one who decided that New York would be the best place for him, even though the New York media is relentless and goes for the jugular time and time again. He put that on himself.

The only thing that saved him on this deal was that New York payed fair market value, even over it if you loo what the Chargers got out of the deal. The Chargers have done very well in the last ten years trading away the number one pick.

[cpk1994]

Is it gutless to make your true intentions known before a team invests it's future in you with their selection, or after you are already on the team? It may be all kinds of negative things, but it certainly isn't gutless.

That being said Eli should have kept his non-gutless big mouth shut and went wherver he was chosen.

That being said, Eli got wrung through the wringer about that draft and his play every year since that draft and has dealt with more criticism than most could take. He hung in there and made in happen in a city that doesn't forgive you for much. Cut him some slack already, he took his lumps about 50 times over and didn't quit, then he took down the Patriots. Would you rather we were getting cascaded with Patriot rah rah for the next 7 months?

Just becuase the Giants won and denied the Patriots doesn't mean I have to like a punk like Eli. He is a punk and I will always think of him as one. I think even less of his father.

[packinpatland]

Maybe we need to define the word 'punk'.

This from the Webster;

Pronunciation: \ˈpəŋk\
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
Date: 1596
1archaic : prostitute
2[probably partly from 3punk] : nonsense, foolishness
3 a: a young inexperienced person : beginner, novice; especially : a young man b: a usually petty gangster, hoodlum, or ruffian cslang : a young man used as a homosexual partner especially in a prison
4 a: punk rock b: a punk rock musician c: one who affects punk styles

By definition I don't think he was a prostitute, may have been foolish, inxperienced, a novice, a young man. Don't think he was a gangster or a hoodlum, or ruffian. And to the best of my knowledge, never did any prison time, nor was he in a punk band.

He doesn't have the flamboyant Romo style, doesn't have the pretty boy Brady face or demeaner, doesn't hurt dogs like Vick, doesn't shout his mouth like Rivers. In his relative age group of QB's he appears to be the most 'normal', whatever defines that.
I just think he may have 'caved', or listened (he was just what? 21?) to fatherly advise at the time of the draft, paid his dues.....as only NY fans can make you pay, and has come out on top. Good for him.

[Deputy Nutz]

Gee for a moment there I was thinking we were at a Packers forum and that we had distain for the QB that was partially responsible for knocking our team out of the playoffs, silly me.