No decision on Williams... Wahle back in GB?

[Farley Face]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that former Panthers guard Mike Wahle is traveling to Seattle on Tuesday night for a Wednesday meeting with the Seahawks.

Wahle was dropped by the Panthers on Monday, in a move that will be processed as a post-June 1 transaction for cap purposes.

Wahle was a second-round selection of the Packers in the 1998 supplemental draft, which coincidentally was the last year in Green Bay for former head coach Mike Holmgren. Now, as the Big Show is getting ready to let the curtain fall on his career in Seattle after the 2008 season, they could be reunited for another one-year stint together.

Seems like a more likely scenario than a return trip to Packerland. I've read Wahle was not heartbroken to leave GB to begin with. He'd likely view Seattle as just as good an opportunity for a long playoff run.

JSO's take:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=717534

Maybe more plausible than I thought, but more likely posturing by a guy looking for leverage and a job for the most $$ possible. He would definitely be an upgrade for us, but he will get more coin than I see TT putting on the table. At only 30 years of age and still capable, someone will throw more dollars on the table than we would likely pay.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

people that dont know football well think bubba sucks because they look at his stat line instead of looking at what he does when he's on the field ALL the time.. not just catching passes, but ALL the time

People that know football know that slow TEs that can block are a dime a dozen.

Football fans who love Bubba also loved Ed West. Solid players, yes. Difference makers no.

[twoseven]

Team's that are already 25 mil below the cap without much inkling to spend it, with 15-16 mil more in Favre and Clifton space that will be added in a few years, have no reason to cut high priced players like Franks or KGB unless they can replace them with more productive players.

[cpk1994]

Team's that are already 25 mil below the cap without much inkling to spend it, with 15-16 mil more in Favre and Clifton space that will be added in a few years, have no reason to cut high priced players like Franks or KGB unless they can replace them with more productive players.

Exactly. WHen people say that KGB and Bubba need to restructure to stay either igonre or forget the fact that the PAck is $25 Million under the cap. The $6 million with that cap room is chump change. These guys won't restructure when they see $25 million in cap space sitting there.

[RashanGary]

Team's that are already 25 mil below the cap without much inkling to spend it, with 15-16 mil more in Favre and Clifton space that will be added in a few years, have no reason to cut high priced players like Franks or KGB unless they can replace them with more productive players.

I'm not saying the KGB or Franks situation is cut and dry, but there is more to it than one years effect.

The Packers have a shot every year to win the SB (just like any team). A mistake today doesn't only effect today (even though the effect today may be small). It effects 3, 4, 5 years down the road as well. We may not be pressed against the cap today, but maybe we are two years down the road and that 9-10 million spent on these two older, soon to be over the hill players today could be the extention of a really good player (let's say Greg Jennings or Jason Spitz).

There is more to it than just how it effects today. It's how it effects the whole picture of getting to and winning a superbowl. With chances to do that happening every year, you have to consider the total impact of letting a player go or keeping him, not just what it does today.

[Patler]

Team's that are already 25 mil below the cap without much inkling to spend it, with 15-16 mil more in Favre and Clifton space that will be added in a few years, have no reason to cut high priced players like Franks or KGB unless they can replace them with more productive players.

Exactly. WHen people say that KGB and Bubba need to restructure to stay either igonre or forget the fact that the PAck is $25 Million under the cap. The $6 million with that cap room is chump change. These guys won't restructure when they see $25 million in cap space sitting there.

A player might restructure if the alternative is to be released, and he believes his market value could be less than offered by the Packers in a restructured deal. For example, if the Packers offer a restructured deal to KGB worth 4 million, and he feels he could only get a $2.5-3 million dollar deal on the FA market, he might be willing to sign.

That is the game played by Sharper and the Packers. Sharper correctly determined that he could get a very good deal on the FA market.

Some teams and GMs believe it is important to maintain a logical pay structure on the team, not having players with lessened value paid lofty salaries for season after season. They seem to tolerate it for a season or two, but not forever, even if they have the cap space to do so.

KGB and Franks will be two very interesting situations to follow in the off-season. I really have no feeling about what the Packers might do. I can easily believe they will do nothing, I can just as easily believe they will ask both to restructure.

[RashanGary]

Look at what Sherman did. He rarely trimmed fat because while it was costly, there was nobody better at the moment. He didn't like to extend guys early seemingly because he already had them. Why do somethign that would be good for tomorrow when he could buy a UFA today.

He never really seemed to have a grasp of just doing the right thing for the whole term of the contract. He always seemed to have blinders on. Eventually that, (what does it do for today, forget the rest of years ahead) mentality sort of lead to the Packers destruction.

I think you have to think past your nose in this league. Look at what Parcells did in Miami. He cut a lot of aging dead weight. Maybe they are better than the young guys, but it's barely and the price and energy wasted on decent but never be better guys starts to take its toll.

[RashanGary]

And I'm not saying they should cut them either, but the logic, we have money today is no better than if you had a few thousand dollars in your pocket so blow it today, it will make your day better. You have many days, why not blow it on somethign worthwhile tomorrow over just spending it because you have it today?

[Iron Mike]

people that dont know football well think bubba sucks because they look at his stat line instead of looking at what he does when he's on the field ALL the time.. not just catching passes, but ALL the time

People that know football know that slow TEs that can block are a dime a dozen.

Football fans who love Bubba also loved Ed West. Solid players, yes. Difference makers no.

I liked Jackie Harris.

[Zool]

people that dont know football well think bubba sucks because they look at his stat line instead of looking at what he does when he's on the field ALL the time.. not just catching passes, but ALL the time

People that know football know that slow TEs that can block are a dime a dozen.

Football fans who love Bubba also loved Ed West. Solid players, yes. Difference makers no.

If you could guarantee that Bubba would play more than 8 games then I'm all for it. Seems like he's starting to break down though.

[twoseven]

Team's that are already 25 mil below the cap without much inkling to spend it, with 15-16 mil more in Favre and Clifton space that will be added in a few years, have no reason to cut high priced players like Franks or KGB unless they can replace them with more productive players.

I'm not saying the KGB or Franks situation is cut and dry, but there is more to it than one years effect.

The Packers have a shot every year to win the SB (just like any team). A mistake today doesn't only effect today (even though the effect today may be small). It effects 3, 4, 5 years down the road as well. We may not be pressed against the cap today, but maybe we are two years down the road and that 9-10 million spent on these two older, soon to be over the hill players today could be the extention of a really good player (let's say Greg Jennings or Jason Spitz).

There is more to it than just how it effects today. It's how it effects the whole picture of getting to and winning a superbowl. With chances to do that happening every year, you have to consider the total impact of letting a player go or keeping him, not just what it does today.

Yep, very well aware that it' not just about today, but to play the sky is falling game with regards to our cap in the next 2-3 years when it is clearly not looking like that is in the same category of tunnel vision as my supposed play for today (?) attitude.

That 9-10 mil you mention in reference to KGB and Bub is already counting against the cap andthere's still 25 mil there, cut KGB and Bubba and we're 35 mil under? Clifton expires in two years, that's another 6 mil. Brett's 11 million could go anyday, and to rationally expect his 11 to be counting against our 2010 roster is I think, safe to say, very improbable.

Al Harris, Woodson, DD all could be gone in 2-4 years. Tauscher and Nick Barnett will not be long behind them, and so on. How many more million is that? So, who are all of the young guys that are going to explode and be getting these massive raises in the next five years that will still be able to trump the dollars cleared when all of the names mentioned in the previous paragraphs are gone?

I am already aware of the save for tomorrow theory, you should open your eyes to the fact that we will also be aging and getting rid of high priced talent at the same time the young guys are due for more money.

Things seem pretty evenly blanced between cheap and expensive, young and old, it appears to be flowing nicely. Masterful job, TT! Which brings me back to my original point..it seems very silly if you are not going to be doing much with a 25 mil cap to be cutting two serviceable vets, only to add another 10 mil to that oversized cap that isn't getting spent, and then not be getting the same production from their (Bub and KGB's) replacements.

[Merlin]

Bubba had a good season. KGB had an excellent season for a part time DE. Are they overpaid? Who the hells knows. Building for the future is all fine and good if as long as you keep perspective on the present. Barnett isn't that old and just signed a new contract so I don't see how he will be following a player like Tauscher out the door considering Tauscher has 5-6 season on Barnett at a very physical position. We need veteran depth on this team. We need people that although aren't starting caliber, an step in when someone goes down and the team doesn't miss a beat. We are weak at CB, LB, OL, RB and yes, QB right now. We have no depth at these positions. Rodgers may end up being a very good QB but let's face it, he hasn't had any competition for the role since he got here. Competition brings out things in players that you never knew they had. It's a good thing. Last year Rayner got beat out because he didn't rise to the occasion. What if McCarthy told Rodgers "guess what, you aren't the backup QB anymore until you beat out X,Y, & Z." Would Rodgers rise to the occasion? Who knows, but it's better to find that out NOW then before you name him your starter.

[twoseven]

Look at what Sherman did. He rarely trimmed fat because while it was costly, there was nobody better at the moment. He didn't like to extend guys early seemingly because he already had them. Why do somethign that would be good for tomorrow when he could buy a UFA today.

He never really seemed to have a grasp of just doing the right thing for the whole term of the contract. He always seemed to have blinders on. Eventually that, (what does it do for today, forget the rest of years ahead) mentality sort of lead to the Packers destruction.

I think you have to think past your nose in this league. Look at what Parcells did in Miami. He cut a lot of aging dead weight. Maybe they are better than the young guys, but it's barely and the price and energy wasted on decent but never be better guys starts to take its toll.

Sherman was a financial moron that never ever should have control of the purse strings. That you continue to channel his poor examples whenever spending FA money is mentioned is beyond me.

I'd be curious to know how far under the cap any SB winner has been since the inception of FA. Patler, you game?

(after Rhodes) Shermy followed Holmgren's back to back SBs, no pressure to win the SB on his shoulders, naww. With a decent core of guys on his roster, how ready were GB fans to accept him breaking his team down ala TT when they were ripe to go deep into the playoffs. Sorry, but any coach that plays for tomorrow and pisses away a chance to get to the SB when it is in reach can be scrutinized just as heavily as the one that gambles and falls short. It's real easy to wag the finger at those moves after they failed.

As for Parcells, it's a real brave and supra-genius act to cut a bunch of medium level, overpriced talent when you are: coming off of 1-15, you traded your best WR to SD last year, your RB Brown is coming off ACL surgery and his backup is Rickey Williams, there's no franchise player out there to use that #1 pick on, and you have no quarterback of note to speak of for the upcoming season. Think past your nose? That was about the easiest decision any GM could make in the history of the league.

[twoseven]

Barnett isn't that old and just signed a new contract so I don't see how he will be following a player like Tauscher out the door considering Tauscher has 5-6 season on Barnett at a very physical position.

Tauscher was drafted 3 years before NB, not 5-6. How long do linemen last in the NFL on avg, how long do MLBs last in the NFL on avg? This considered, I think it's fair to say that NB will not be far behind Tauscher in moving on, 1-2 years maybe? I didn't mean literally follow him out of the league, and I didn't say NB wouldn't go elsewhere before he's retired.

IMO we can probably say goodbye to Harris, Woodson, and DD at the latest 3-5 years from now, I could see Tausch in 4-6, NB in 5-7. My point is there will be turnover to balance the youngers getting paid.

[MJZiggy]

1. Agreed we need depth, why does it have to be veteran? The boys pretty much proved that the kids TT brings up can play.

2. How can you say Aaron Rodgers has had no competition? He's failed to beat out Brett Favre every year since he got here. And don't think he hasn't tried either.