Favre return isn't a given

[LL2]

The belief that Favre absolutely would get the Packers to the Super Bowl if they just got close enough is now gone.

Isn't that a sign of when to hang it up?

[Patler]

The belief that Favre absolutely would get the Packers to the Super Bowl if they just got close enough is now gone.

Isn't that a sign of when to hang it up?

I have expressed an opinion earlier that he will not return; and that is why.

He made the infamous "Do I still want the ball with the game on the line" statement before, which showed me that he was very serious about retiring, and that he himself had doubts about the level of his commitment and his abilities. Having the ball with a trip to the Super Bowl on the line, and failing, I think may be enough to push him into retirement. Favre has expressed more self-doubt in the last two or three seasons than I can recall from him collectively before then.

[cpk1994]

Well, his house isn't up for sale.... so, he's coming back

He doesn't have another golf membership to give up, does he?

[Harlan Huckleby]

how many players retire before they have to? Just a handful.

[Patler]

how many players retire before they have to? Just a handful.

That's true, but we are only beginning to see the era of wildly rich players nearing the ends of their careers. The ones who made enough by age 30 to live lavishly the rest of their lives.

[fan4life]

I believe fans now realize that Favre is no longer the difference maker, whether or not he is better than Rodgers, The loss to the Giants was an awakening for some, demonstrating that even with Favre, and being just one game away from the Super Bowl, playing at home; having Favre didn't matter. Watching Manning perform efficiently when Favre didn't, under conditions in which most thought the advantage would go to Favre, raises an underlying doubt. In that game, on that day, would Rodgers maybe have performed better???

Doubts like that make the urgency of Favre's return less intense. I think many now realize it may not happen again with Favre, and so they are willing to move on, or accept his return. It isn't that important to them either way.

The belief that Favre absolutely would get the Packers to the Super Bowl if they just got close enough is now gone.

Well, that load of c&^% speaks for yourself. You are WAY OFF BASE about what most fans think.

Most fans recognize that Favre was the only reason the Packers got anywhere near the SB this year. His strong play early in the year helped a young team grow throughout the season. The efficiency and big-play threat of the passing game was the culmination of Favre's experience and his receivers' ability to master MMs "check with me" system, which allowed the veteran signal-caller to get his offense into and out of plays that had the best chance for gain. That, and MMs continued commitment to develop the run, allowed Grant to emerge as a threat out of the Packers base formation, when defenses had to respect Favre's play action.

Most fans also realize that whether Favre returns or not, the Packers need to be able to line up and run the ball against defenses focused on stopping the run. Especially if they are going to win in December and January, when executing 2 and 3-step pass plays to receivers on timing routes is complicated by uncontrollable weather conditions. Eli had a strong run game; Favre needs it; and Rodgers, who is nowhere near operating at Favre's level of expertise, will certainly benefit from having to throw much less than the old veteran.

Finally, fans are less anxious about Favre's return because they believe he will come back, encouraged by the development of the team on both offense and defense; his comfort with MM and command of MMs system; and, finally, stated goal of MM (and presumably TT) to spend the effort and resources necessay to develop a power running game.

Intelligent fans also know that Favre is still the heart-and-soul of the GB Packers and the team's best chance for a SB in the near-term, but that football is ultimately a team sport - and that while he can be the difference-maker, there is a limit to what he can do to overcome a team getting beat in the trenches. At least in a wind storm or the sub-zero temperatures of the Frozen Tundra.

Whether TT is ready to spend the money to get an O-line that can run-block, MM dedicates himself to sticking with the run, and Favre is willing to put in the time to keep his body young are issues all three men are dealing with, as we speak. Because all three of them know that if Favre returns, both the fans as well as they themselves will expect nothing less than a SB appearance in 2008.

But, I agree with you that there are a fews fans foolish enough to discount Favre's significant contributions to GBs success. But those folks have always been around and will continue to raise their ugly voices until the day he finally does retire.

I just wonder, whoever will they find to blame for GB not going 19-0 every year when he's gone?

[Patler]

I believe fans now realize that Favre is no longer the difference maker, whether or not he is better than Rodgers, The loss to the Giants was an awakening for some, demonstrating that even with Favre, and being just one game away from the Super Bowl, playing at home; having Favre didn't matter. Watching Manning perform efficiently when Favre didn't, under conditions in which most thought the advantage would go to Favre, raises an underlying doubt. In that game, on that day, would Rodgers maybe have performed better???

Doubts like that make the urgency of Favre's return less intense. I think many now realize it may not happen again with Favre, and so they are willing to move on, or accept his return. It isn't that important to them either way.

The belief that Favre absolutely would get the Packers to the Super Bowl if they just got close enough is now gone.

Well, that load of c&^% speaks for yourself. You are WAY OFF BASE about what most fans think.

Most fans recognize that Favre was the only reason the Packers got anywhere near the SB this year. His strong play early in the year helped a young team grow throughout the season. The efficiency and big-play threat of the passing game was the culmination of Favre's experience and his receivers' ability to master MMs "check with me" system, which allowed the veteran signal-caller to get his offense into and out of plays that had the best chance for gain. That, and MMs continued commitment to develop the run, allowed Grant to emerge as a threat out of the Packers base formation, when defenses had to respect Favre's play action.

Most fans also realize that whether Favre returns or not, the Packers need to be able to line up and run the ball against defenses focused on stopping the run. Especially if they are going to win in December and January, when executing 2 and 3-step pass plays to receivers on timing routes is complicated by uncontrollable weather conditions. Eli had a strong run game; Favre needs it; and Rodgers, who is nowhere near operating at Favre's level of expertise, will certainly benefit from having to throw much less than the old veteran.

Finally, fans are less anxious about Favre's return because they believe he will come back, encouraged by the development of the team on both offense and defense; his comfort with MM and command of MMs system; and, finally, stated goal of MM (and presumably TT) to spend the effort and resources necessay to develop a power running game.

Intelligent fans also know that Favre is still the heart-and-soul of the GB Packers and the team's best chance for a SB in the near-term, but that football is ultimately a team sport - and that while he can be the difference-maker, there is a limit to what he can do to overcome a team getting beat in the trenches. At least in a wind storm or the sub-zero temperatures of the Frozen Tundra.

Whether TT is ready to spend the money to get an O-line that can run-block, MM dedicates himself to sticking with the run, and Favre is willing to put in the time to keep his body young are issues all three men are dealing with, as we speak. Because all three of them know that if Favre returns, both the fans as well as they themselves will expect nothing less than a SB appearance in 2008.

But, I agree with you that there are a fews fans foolish enough to discount Favre's significant contributions to GBs success. But those folks have always been around and will continue to raise their ugly voices until the day he finally does retire.

I just wonder, whoever will they find to blame for GB not going 19-0 every year when he's gone?

Either your pro-Favre passion, or my inarticulate explanation caused you to miss my point completely.

I was not at all talking about what Favre meant to the team throughout the season. For the most part, I agree with you. However, playoffs are a different animal. What I was addressing was the feeling that has persisted for years, much of it rightly so, that in a big game the Packers had a significant advantage simply because Favre was the QB. He alone could be the difference maker, just as Elway was when younger. However, that was not true of Elway in his last few years, and I would submit it is not true of Favre now at the end of a long season. You have as much admitted it.

In short, clearly the Packers can win with Favre, but to go all the way it will not be BECAUSE of Favre as much as it could have been in the past. For that reason, whether he stays or not does not have the same importance as 5 or 6 seasons ago.

[The Leaper]

He alone could be the difference maker, just as Elway was when younger. However, that was not true of Elway in his last few years, and I would submit it is not true of Favre now at the end of a long season. You have as much admitted it.

I agree. Which is why I brought up the point in another thread that if Favre comes back, he should not be on the field 100% of the time next year...not because we need to develop Rodgers, but because Favre has clearly worn down over the course of the year in the last 2 seasons.

If we are up 10 points in the 4th quarter, Aaron Rodgers needs to be on the field. He's a first round draft pick, and should have the capacity to caretake a 2 score lead in the 4th quarter and allow Favre to conserve his legs.

[fan4life]

Oh, I got your drift. But summarily dismissed it. True, Favre is not the dominant QB he was 5 or 6 years ago. But if we, as fans, have learned anything over the past 16 years it is that one man can only do so much. And will inevitably come up short when those around him can't block, can't tackle, can't run, can't catch and can't coach.

To say that fans are less anxious about Favre returning because they may have some hope that Life After Favre won't be the darkness predicted a few years ago is a presumption.

More accurate would be to say that Life After Favre is an inevitability most have accepted.

[Green Bud Packer]

I feel the Pack would be a better team in '08 with Favre than without him.

I don't believe Favre was better 5-6 years ago than he is now. He is allowed to change things up at the line which I feel is a strength where as 5-6 years ago his hands were tied.

I hope he plays out his contract.

[Patler]

To say that fans are less anxious about Favre returning because they may have some hope that Life After Favre won't be the darkness predicted a few years ago is a presumption.

Of course it is, just like any of your opinions are also presumptions.
My opinions are just that, opinions, as are yours.

However, I am of the opinion that the god-like reverence extended by many toward Favre took a hit when he was given a chance to lead a drive to the Super Bowl, and came up with a fairly bad throw when his ability was needed the most.

The addict-like need for him to return has been diminished. Withdrawal from Favre addiction has begun.

[Patler]

I feel the Pack would be a better team in '08 with Favre than without him.

I don't believe Favre was better 5-6 years ago than he is now. He is allowed to change things up at the line which I feel is a strength where as 5-6 years ago his hands were tied.

I hope he plays out his contract.

I will be pleased if he returns. He is enjoyable to watch. However, I will not agonize, regret nor shed a tear if he hangs it up.

I have seen too many great and "irreplaceable" stars in all sports leave over the past 50+ years to be too concerned about whether or not another one retires. That is why I have found the "Favre Watch" the last few years to be sort of humorous.

[4and12to12and4]

One thing I agree with that the article states is that there is a sense of clam this year among the Packer faithful. The past few years everyone was anxious. You would think after coming so close to the SB people would be more anxious. I think the Packers will be fine whether or not Favre retires.

I'm not a big fish eater. Maybe that's why I'm getting a divorce!!!

[twoseven]

Arod's showing in pre-season and how he looked off the bench in Dallas are most of the reason people are not on the edge of their Favre seats. IMO, just as long as he lets them know before free agency is my only concern, I want TT to have every freedom at that time to do what he has to do.

TT has said a hundred times that he's not going to base any decisions or choices on who the quarterback is. Even if he doesn't have a decision, he will do what he needs to do to make the team better. If he thinks a backup qb will be necessary once Favre is gone, he will get one regardless.

Would retaining Corey Williams be easier with Brett's 11 mil in space available? Are there any QBs in FA that might be better backups than Craig Nall? Are there any FAs, period, that would be easier to pursue with Brett's 11 mil available? You apparently can read TT's mind, I cannot. I still see it as a benefit to the team to know what #4 is doing before FA starts.

[Patler]

Would retaining Corey Williams be easier with Brett's 11 mil in space available? Are there any QBs in FA that might be better backups than Craig Nall? Are there any FAs, period, that would be easier to pursue with Brett's 11 mil available? You apparently can read TT's mind, I cannot. I still see it as a benefit to the team to know what #4 is doing before FA starts.

I'm not sure the extra $11 million in cap space would make a bit of difference in how much will be offered to Williams, or any other FA.