Rough time at bargaining table

[Bretsky]

6.5 for a guy who got 1 sack and 14 tackles in his last 8 games as a starter is a tad steep imo. I hope he goes if he only stays if we over pay him.

Why don't you judge him over the past two years ? Why just select the last 8 games ?

[Spaulding]

Money wise, whether he's worth or not is a non-issue. Barring Allen, Haynesworth or some other high end FA eating our free cap money we have more than we need this off season.

Value wise, no way is CW worth 6+ million. He was exposed for what he is (player who excels in rotation but is average when full time starter) in the last half of the season and given the money we already have invested in the DL it wouldn't make much sense.

The big issue to me would be dynamics. If we pay CW 6+ million for the tender, how does that impact the motivation/chemistry with Jenkins or Kampman who signed contracts within the last 1-2 years and where CW would be making more. Also, other full time starters who make substantially less but have a greater impact, how would they view this?

[RashanGary]

There is a little side issue that I'm concerned with thsi as well.

By drafting well and not going into UFA, you get the benefit of a sheltered lockerroom. Rather than really seeing how overblown some salaries are, our lockerroom only sees what the guys around them get paid. If CW leaves and gets 150% of Kampmans deal, everyone in the Packers lockerroom is going to say WTF, I know what I'm worth. I'm worth more than that and I'm getting much less than that.

[b bulldog]

I judge him over the last 8 games because that was when he played on a every down basis and wasn't given the breaks of being a rotation player. This clearly shows that he is a different player when he is an every down player and he is not even good enough to start here but you want to pay a backup 6.5 next year?? I doubt very highly that TT will do that and I'm thankful that he won't.

[RashanGary]

I judge him over the last 8 games because that was when he played on a every down basis and wasn't given the breaks of being a rotation player. This clearly shows that he is a different player when he is an every down player and he is not even good enough to start here but you want to pay a backup 6.5 next year?? I doubt very highly that TT will do that and I'm thankful that he won't.

Justin Smith of Cincy had a similar situation last year. He played on a thin line, not getting much help and had a bad year. He's still a good player (similar to C-Dub IMO).

No, he's not a difference maker, but you have to remember that this 6.25 franchise tender is REALLY low right now in relation to the inflation. No big deals have been struck since the big increase and this is already the third year after the increase. 6 mil now is like 4 mil three years ago. It's really not a large percentage of the cap and it's only one year.

[Bretsky]

I judge him over the last 8 games because that was when he played on a every down basis and wasn't given the breaks of being a rotation player. This clearly shows that he is a different player when he is an every down player and he is not even good enough to start here but you want to pay a backup 6.5 next year?? I doubt very highly that TT will do that and I'm thankful that he won't.

Nobody argues he's a stud as an everydown player. I'd chose to judge him for what he has done while everybody is healthy. Those sack totals are very good. Truth be told if you breakdown those stats it shows he has a lot of value when he's used the way he should be.

Is he worth franchise money ? No. But many still feel it might be a wise move for a year.

[RashanGary]

I really think JH is going to come on this year and I think Jolly will too. However, I don't want one injury to put us in the situation we were in last year. Just because JH and Jolly might turn out better doesn't mean we can't use antoher good one. The less everyone has to play the better everyone will be (esspecially in the 4th quarter when defenses usually cave)

[RashanGary]

Is he worth franchise money ? No. But many still feel it might be a wise move for a year.

Bretsky, franchise money sin't even franchise money (as we know it). When those deals (the ones effecting the franchise tag) were struck, the cap has gone up 35%. 6 mil is really like 4.44 mil of three years ago.

This is a unique time for the franchise tag. The cap has gone up, but the salaries havn't yet. It really makes the tags affordable and usable on players that don't usually get them.

I stand by my C-Dub should be tagged theory and I think he will be. I don't think everyone is connecting how this is a different year for the tag. They just say "the tag is the tag", but it can be different at different times in each CBA.

[Patler]

6.5 for a guy who got 1 sack and 14 tackles in his last 8 games as a starter is a tad steep imo. I hope he goes if he only stays if we over pay him.

I think that is too much, too, longterm. But for one more year it would not bother me that much.

As for his sacks, his "starts", etc:

1. Three of Williams' sacks came in games he started, 2 against KC, a game he started, and 1 against Detroit, also a game he started.

2. When Jolly was injured, one article mentioned that Williams was playing more snaps/game then Jolly anyway; so what is the significance of "starting".

3. The bigger problem was a number of injuries hit the DL all at one. Cole went down for good the week after Jolly. KGB was hurt that same week, missed the next week and likely was slowed after that. Pickett was hurt two weeks later and missed the final two games. It wasn't just that Williams was "starting", the entire complexion of the DL changed, almost on a weekly basis the last 6 games of the season.

[b bulldog]

We can agree to disagree but all I know is that after the Panthers game, our passrush was BAD!!!!!!!!! and as far as I can remember, 99 was getting a great deal of reps than and really never did much. If you read many of the game threads, many in here were voicing the same thing about 99 being MIA when he was really asked to step up. In the long run, if he gets tagged, it doesn't really hurt the team. The way Tt spends money, I doubt he tags him, in fact, I'd be shocked to see TT pay a reserve that kind of money. IMO, it may come down to this, would you like to see TT give 99 all that money when he doesn't even start and you already have a good rotation when healthy or would you like to see TT frontload UFA contracts as he usually does, with a young DB and a OG or a good DE? A rotation of Pickett, Jolly, Harrell, Muir, Cole, and Jenkins if moved inside, would be very strong.

[Patler]

Maybe you can explain the significance of being the "starter" for the Packers DTs, especially since, when both were healthy, Williams was playing more snaps/game than Jolly was? Who cares which player was out there for the opening snap on defense?

[b bulldog]

My point here is that when Jolly was down along with Cole, 99 played much more than he was and was putting up numbers that were quite a bit lower than when he could rest. I doubt he is a dominant player at all when he isn't ian a deep rotation.

[twoseven]

Are we not expecting our DTs to be healthy at season's start this year? If that's when CW was at his most productive it seems to me he could be again, and if our DTs are getting hurt again where are you left on the depth charts if CW is not there? I guess I would like to know why one year rental with our space is a bad idea. To me worst case scenario is Harrel and Jolly prove we don't need CW and he's gone next year.

[RashanGary]

Are we not expecting our DTs to be healthy at season's start this year? If that's when CW was at his most productive it seems to me he could be again, and if our DTs are getting hurt again where are you left on the depth charts if CW is not there? I guess I would like to know why one year rental with our space is a bad idea. To me worst case scenario is Harrel and Jolly prove we don't need CW and he's gone next year.

I agree.


Also, if things pan out like the 1st round pick of #91 would suggest TT thinks they will, we'll have another really good DT in 2008.

Then, if Harrell or Jolly go down. we still have Pickett, Jolly and Williams remainging and Williams will still be in a position to succeed.

DL is the one spot where you pay backups like starters because they play just as much as starters.

[Bretsky]

Is he worth franchise money ? No. But many still feel it might be a wise move for a year.

Bretsky, franchise money sin't even franchise money (as we know it). When those deals (the ones effecting the franchise tag) were struck, the cap has gone up 35%. 6 mil is really like 4.44 mil of three years ago.

This is a unique time for the franchise tag. The cap has gone up, but the salaries havn't yet. It really makes the tags affordable and usable on players that don't usually get them.

I stand by my C-Dub should be tagged theory and I think he will be. I don't think everyone is connecting how this is a different year for the tag. They just say "the tag is the tag", but it can be different at different times in each CBA.

Great Points

I am of the belief TT won't tag CW though. Hard to read either way though