Rough time at bargaining table

[vince]

I'd generally agree that they should lock guys up Vince, but who do you suggest? No one jumps out at me as needing a new deal.

A couple could stand upgrades. Jolly, but as was pointed out elsewhere, they've got him cheap for a while. Grant - same situation. GJ? Don't know what he's got left. Other than that, there's not a lot that have proven themselves worthy. The proven players on D are locked up, and the rest haven't shown themselves to be anything more than 'just guys'. They're not going to throw money at Montgomery or Walker! An argument could be made for Bigby, but that's it.

What should've happened is that they should have locked up Williams LAST offseason. Hindsight's 20-20 though...

I'm an advocate for locking Grant up for 4 or 5 years and $15-$20 mil. I believe that would prove to be money very well spent. Also, Tauscher (08), Jennings (09), Jolly (09), Spitz (09), Kampman (09), Bigby (07), Pickett (08), Rodgers (09), Collins (09), Popp (08), Blackmon (09) and others are all possibilities that they'll want to be looking at this year or next. Having the luxury of seeing how next season progresses for these players will also be beneficial, so I'm not saying they should spend it NOW, but for this year's cap... Additionally, I think a free agent OG and possibly SLB could be a possibility this offseason.

[vince]

JH, you are often correct when analyzing situations like this and making predictions, but I'm throwing down along side Harv, bulldog, joe, etc. on this one. (Sorry to ruin your argument guys.)

Use the money to lock someone up that is part of the long-term plan. I don't think we'll be any worse off for having Harrell, Cole and possibly Muir part of the regular rotation next year. I think Cole is as good as he's going to get, but its very reasonable to expect Harrelll and even Muir to come off their first offseason program as improved professionals. Harrell's athletic enough to have a good chance at becoming a pass rusher in addition to run stuffer.

Hey, you haven't ruined any argument from what I can see

I can certainly see the view of those that don't want to throw the franchise on CW because it may offend others or he's simply not worth it....or not part of a longer term plan.

But Coll or Muhr ? I won't count on those guys for much at this point.

Cole is an end of the depth chart DL. Good enough to make a roster IMO but not much more. Nowhere near Williams.

Muhr, we have no idea what we have in him. He's shown glimpses I guess. But it certainly a stretch to count on these two IMO to pick up any slack left from Williams departure.

We could say the same for Harrell as well, although based on his college career it would be reasonable for him to develop into being solid soon.

If Williams is gone, you've got Pickett, Jolly, and Harrell as the main rotation, with Cole in spot rotation. Muir would be on the 53-man, but likely would not suit up and is injury insurance. It's also likely that we'll have another rookie vying for one of those spots. I would have to believe TT goes after someone in the draft in the mid- late rounds that can play inside.

[Bretsky]

JH, you are often correct when analyzing situations like this and making predictions, but I'm throwing down along side Harv, bulldog, joe, etc. on this one. (Sorry to ruin your argument guys.)

Use the money to lock someone up that is part of the long-term plan. I don't think we'll be any worse off for having Harrell, Cole and possibly Muir part of the regular rotation next year. I think Cole is as good as he's going to get, but its very reasonable to expect Harrelll and even Muir to come off their first offseason program as improved professionals. Harrell's athletic enough to have a good chance at becoming a pass rusher in addition to run stuffer.

Hey, you haven't ruined any argument from what I can see

I can certainly see the view of those that don't want to throw the franchise on CW because it may offend others or he's simply not worth it....or not part of a longer term plan.

But Coll or Muhr ? I won't count on those guys for much at this point.

Cole is an end of the depth chart DL. Good enough to make a roster IMO but not much more. Nowhere near Williams.

Muhr, we have no idea what we have in him. He's shown glimpses I guess. But it certainly a stretch to count on these two IMO to pick up any slack left from Williams departure.

We could say the same for Harrell as well, although based on his college career it would be reasonable for him to develop into being solid soon.

If Williams is gone, you've got Pickett, Jolly, and Harrell as the main rotation, with Cole in spot rotation. Muir would be on the 53-man, but likely would not suit up and is injury insurance. It's also likely that we'll have another rookie vying for one of those spots. I would have to believe TT goes after someone in the draft in the mid- late rounds that can play inside.

I will say this; if TT will pony up and sign an URA offensive guard, as you suggested....then taking the gamble of losing CW may be worth it. When you eliminate him from the equations IMO we are painfully thin if an injury occurs.

In another thread I had listed some OG's who might be of interest; I just don't have the confidence TT will pony up the cash to bring them here.

With that being said, our cap is so healthy we could do both as well, and wait a year on Grant.

[Lurker64]

If Williams is gone, you've got Pickett, Jolly, and Harrell as the main rotation, with Cole in spot rotation. Muir would be on the 53-man, but likely would not suit up and is injury insurance. It's also likely that we'll have another rookie vying for one of those spots. I would have to believe TT goes after someone in the draft in the mid- late rounds that can play inside.

I'm also wondering what Thompson saw in Bolston. Was he just injury insurance and a rotation guy, or does he have some upside after an NFL offseason. We saw very, very little of him as fans but our coaches and scouts have seen a lot more about him.

[Guiness]

I'm an advocate for locking Grant up for 4 or 5 years and $15-$20 mil. I believe that would prove to be money very well spent. Also, Tauscher (08), Jennings (09), Jolly (09), Spitz (09), Kampman (09), Bigby (07), Pickett (08), Rodgers (09), Collins (09), Popp (08), Blackmon (09) and others are all possibilities that they'll want to be looking at this year or next. Having the luxury of seeing how next season progresses for these players will also be beneficial, so I'm not saying they should spend it NOW, but for this year's cap... Additionally, I think a free agent OG and possibly SLB could be a possibility this offseason.

Looking at this list, IMO that's kind of my point. Popp and Collins seem to be 'just guys'. Blackmon is totally unproven. Jennings, Jolly and Bigby I mentioned. You put Bigby as 07, but he's exlusive rights, so isn't going anywhere.

Tauscher's a tough call, but wouldn't hurt to extend him. Pickett, of course. I hope they talk to him this season. Kampman's got another season, and they just gave him more money...

That leave Spitz and Rodgers. Spitz won't be much money at this point. Rodgers is a wild card. Who know what happens with him???

[twoseven]

Funny how two of the DTs whose salaries are determining the franchise price (Coleman and Sapp) are without a job.

[b bulldog]

Don't forget Rodgers and I wouldn't jumop the gun with Grant either. Let him show us all he can do it for more than one season, nothing wrong with that. Jennings may also be looked at after next season for an extension.

[vince]

I'm an advocate for locking Grant up for 4 or 5 years and $15-$20 mil. I believe that would prove to be money very well spent. Also, Tauscher (08), Jennings (09), Jolly (09), Spitz (09), Kampman (09), Bigby (07), Pickett (08), Rodgers (09), Collins (09), Popp (08), Blackmon (09) and others are all possibilities that they'll want to be looking at this year or next. Having the luxury of seeing how next season progresses for these players will also be beneficial, so I'm not saying they should spend it NOW, but for this year's cap... Additionally, I think a free agent OG and possibly SLB could be a possibility this offseason.

Looking at this list, IMO that's kind of my point. Popp and Collins seem to be 'just guys'. Blackmon is totally unproven. Jennings, Jolly and Bigby I mentioned. You put Bigby as 07, but he's exlusive rights, so isn't going anywhere.

Tauscher's a tough call, but wouldn't hurt to extend him. Pickett, of course. I hope they talk to him this season. Kampman's got another season, and they just gave him more money...

That leave Spitz and Rodgers. Spitz won't be much money at this point. Rodgers is a wild card. Who know what happens with him???

Every one of those guys are starters or projected starters and, assuming they project out, will need to be re-signed. You can put question marks on some of them, but you can't ignore 'em... They all add up quickly when you're talking about needing to sign them in short succession.

Add in some or all of Colledge, Coston, Moll, White, Williams, Bush, Martin, Robinson, Ryan, and others as key veteran depth in the next two years, and you've got a shitload of contributors that you'd like to hold onto for as cheap as possible...

I'm usually not wishy-washy, but in this case I'm not really against tagging Williams either. Doing so would be a positive for next year, which could be the year the trophy returns...

[Patler]

No defensive tackle in the NFL has as many or more sacks over the last two years than Corey Williams has. I'm not sure what that means, but it is what it is. It wasn't because of a fluke year. He has had seven each year.

As for him fading when called on to start, has everyone forgotten that he was the starter for most of 2006? His production was virtually identical to what it was this year, 7 sacks each year, 26 solo tackles each year, 2 passes defensed in 2006, 1 pass defensed and 1 interception in 2007.

[MJZiggy]

Could any of the sacks be coming from pressure elsewhere, like, say Kampman driving the QB right at Williams?

[b bulldog]

Kampy is our sack guy, he usually commands the attention. I don't see much collapsing of the pocket, I think if anything, KGB and Kampy usually force the QB to step up in the pocket, which would help 99 in regards to sacks.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I acctually think there is a good chance Williams is our 4th best tackle next year but we could have some very good ones so it's not that big of a knock.

Pickett is better
Jolly is better and should be even more so next year.
Harrell (I have a lot of confidence in him. He's talented, but he also loves football, has a knack for the game and is willing to work at it)

I also think Thompson will look to acquire even more DL talent. Jenkins can move inside also.

[b bulldog]

In my perfect scenario, we pick up a good DE who can play every down and move 77 inside and let 99 walk. Nick, I don't see where your observations on Harrel come from?? I hope he really turns it on next season but to say he has a knack for football and is willing to work at it, where does this come from??

I posted a few months ago that Harrell told McCarren that he wants to stay in GB all offseason to work out but I need to to see him do this, not just talk about doing it..

[RashanGary]

In my perfect scenario, we pick up a good DE who can play every down and move 77 inside and let 99 walk. Nick, I don't see where your observations on Harrel come from?? I hope he really turns it on next season but to say he has a knack for football and is willing to work at it, where does this come from??

Everything about Harrell coming out was that he was a warrior on the field and a hard worker off of it. I've heard mulitple quotes on Harrell, including one as the season ended from Thompson saying he wants to be good and he's going to work at it. Everything that's ever been said about his character has been glowing.

I'm excited to see him and Jolly (hopefully Jolly can keep his legs strong with the shoulder recovering).

[RashanGary]

The only good DE out there is Justin Smith. He'd be a good addition though and sliding Jenkins inside as the pass rush specialist would be ideal.

UFA's command top dollar though. It would be hard to compete with teams willing to slit their own throat for a good but nothing special player.

EDIT: Wait, the Titans had a couple decent ones on the open market too, right?