Williams trade

[Harlan Huckleby]

Most people would agree that trading Frank Walker for a 2nd round pick would improve the team.

And trading Aaron Kampmen for a 2nd rounder would almost certainly weaken the team.

Result of Williams trade is not so easy to predict.

Obviously it will depend on how good the 2nd rounder turns out to be, just asking people to venture a guess.

[Freak Out]

You need to delay the poll until after the draft....or the end of next season.
What did your Ouija board say?

[cheesner]

it does not make the team better next year; it might make the team beter long term though.

It was a wise move for a 2nd

Good post. I think most fans concentrate just on next season. GMs who do that don't last very long on their jobs.

[Brohm]

I think it makes the team better. Just given TT's past history, I would guess one of those 2's is going to be traded for multiple second day picks which will add further depth. (I would also venture we pick up a DT/DE as well). Look at what we have gotten in those later rounds:

Driver: 7th
Kampman: 5th
KGB: 5th
Williams: 6th
Tauscher: 7th
Wells: 7th

Last year: Starting kicker and FB and back -up MLB

Yes we lose Williams pass rush, but I think the increase in depth, and hopefully Harrell's improvement, will more than tip the scales as a positive. The real risk is that the young players have to step up and grow from within.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I usually think of Kool-Aide as a refreshing summertime drink, but its already flowing fast and furious. Must be the long winter.

Corey Williams is a good, starting defensive tackle. No way would you give up a valuable known asset like this for a 2nd round draft pick unless your hand was forced by financial constraints.

The Packers have essentially exchanged Corey Williams' roster spot for Justin Harrell. They can't afford to pay both guys at the same position. This move can be viewed as an additional cost of acquiring Justin Harrell. Maybe the exchange will work out, maybe not, but it certainly raises the bar of success for Harrell. Harrell damn well better be an upgrade.

[SkinBasket]

Maybe the exchange will work out, maybe not, but it certainly raises the bar of success for Harrell. Harrell damn well better be an upgrade.

You mean Harrell, whatever comes of the 2nd, and whoever we spend the 6 mil on (if we spend it at all), better be an upgrade.

[Brohm]

Williams started because Jolly and Cole were injured. When thrust into that starting role, his production diminished and the pass rush/run defense suffered as a whole. I guess I don't see him is an irreplaceable cog worth 6 million a year. It's not Kool-Aid, just a difference in opinion on value. If he had a Jenkins type contract, then the better value is keeping him. It's not like he was breaking out Warren Sapp in his prime sack numbers.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Maybe the exchange will work out, maybe not, but it certainly raises the bar of success for Harrell. Harrell damn well better be an upgrade.

You mean Harrell, whatever comes of the 2nd, and whoever we spend the 6 mil on (if we spend it at all), better be an upgrade.

No. They alternately could have traded Harrell and gotten cap relief and a draft pick.

Not sure what kind of draft pick you would get for Harrell, though.

I don't think you would downgrade a position on the defensive line.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Williams started because Jolly and Cole were injured. When thrust into that starting role, his production diminished and the pass rush/run defense suffered as a whole. I guess I don't see him is an irreplaceable cog worth 6 million a year. It's not Kool-Aid, just a difference in opinion on value. If he had a Jenkins type contract, then the better value is keeping him. It's not like he was breaking out Warren Sapp in his prime sack numbers.

Sure, dumping Williams makes sense. I'm not saying it is a bad move. But you also have to look at who you are replacing him with - Harrell. Not sure what Harrell's salary is, but as a first round draft pick, it ain't chicken feed. The Packers are gambling that HArrell will be better than Williams.

[Brohm]

Really, I think William's replacement is already on the roster in Jenkins. Though able to play DE, he is there because KGB gets destroyed as a starter. If we can find a DE to run opposite Kampman, I think the whole DL falls into place with Pickett, Jolly, Cole, Harrell and Jenkins manning the interior and Kampman, New Starter X, Backup Y (currently Montgomery) and KGB as a rush specialist manning the end positions.

[Zool]

Really, I think William's replacement is already on the roster in Jenkins. Though able to play DE, he is there because KGB gets destroyed as a starter. If we can find a DE to run opposite Kampman, I think the whole DL falls into place with Pickett, Jolly, Cole, Harrell and Jenkins manning the interior and Kampman, New Starter X, Backup Y (currently Montgomery) and KGB as a rush specialist manning the end positions.

I was thinking this exact same thing. Jenkins is an upgrade over Williams. If a DE can be located that plays the run and pass well, it all falls into place. Harrell can spell Jenks, Jolly can come in for Pickett.

Hell in on dime situations, they could move the unnamed DE to DT for Pickett and drop in KGB and have a hellova pass rush.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Jenkins is an upgrade over Williams.

Jeez, I don't know about this.

[SkinBasket]

Maybe the exchange will work out, maybe not, but it certainly raises the bar of success for Harrell. Harrell damn well better be an upgrade.

You mean Harrell, whatever comes of the 2nd, and whoever we spend the 6 mil on (if we spend it at all), better be an upgrade.

No. They alternately could have traded Harrell and gotten cap relief and a draft pick.

But they didn't. They got a 2nd and 6 mil in change relief to go along with Harrell and two other DTs. Every part of the exchange needs to be considered, not just the parts that fit your view.

It's amazing - but not surprising - how easily your mind slips from reality to theory (or more often fantasy) sometimes.

[Harlan Huckleby]

But they didn't. They got a 2nd and 6 mil in change relief to go along with Harrell and two other DTs. Every part of the exchange needs to be considered, not just the parts that fit your view.

If you want to view it as an exchange for a 2nd & $6M cap relief, that is fine. That's the deal on the face of it, one way to look at it. (Why you throw three other players into your treasure trove is mysterious.)

I have proposed an alternate way to view the deal: somebody had to go on the defensive line, and they are keeping Williams instead of new acquisition Harrell. If this is too mind-bending for you, no need to keep up.

[Lurker64]

No. They alternately could have traded Harrell and gotten cap relief and a draft pick.

You can only really compare things that were actually alternatives when you're waxing poetically about "what they should have done." We could have done a lot of things, but they wouldn't have addressed the Corey Williams situation.

Coming into the offseason we had four choices as to what to do with Williams:
(1) Let him walk and receive compensatory picks in 2009.
(2) Tag him and trade him for picks in 2008 to a team willing to sign him for a longterm contract.
(3) Tag him and let him play out the year at which point you ask this question again in the next offseason.
(4) Sign him to a longterm deal and thereby make him the highest paid player on the defense (second overall behind Favre.)

Personally, I consider (1) and (4) to be unacceptable options. Compensatory picks are almost always disappointing and the picks you could get via (2) are almost certainly better (who gets a second round compensatory pick?) Even though Williams was a valuable contributor, in no way is he worth being the highest played player on the defense (and the highest paid player on the team, in case Favre retires), especially considering he wasn't even a starter. Thompson tried to resign Williams to a longterm deal and offered him Jenkins/Pickett money, which is more than fair IMO.

So the real choice is "Tag him and trade him" or "Tag him and let him play." Neither are great options, but I think the latter is less desirable considering that Williams was unhappy to be tagged and unhappy players generally make trouble, which we don't really have time to deal with.

So of the actual choices Thompson was prevented as to "what to do with Williams" he chose either the best or the second best.