Now boarding.... the A Car

[jack's smirking revenge]

I still side with Zig though. His window of opportunity is VERY small. He has very little margin for error since he's been "relegated" (a nice way of saying demoted) to backup by Woodson. I don't think he'll have the opportunity to "breakout" anymore. He had his chance and the Packers lost what little confidence they had in him. If they did have confidence that he was going to turn the corner, they wouldn't have brought in Woodson.

TT has created a VERY nice backfield dynamic though: Woodson will play to show that he's still got game and that he's still a playa in the NFL; Carroll will play to show that he's EVEN a playa in the NFL and that he deserves the next big payday (which is looming on the horizon).

Given Carroll's history of failure and Woodson's history of injury, I fear that we're not much better off than last year. But, that's why the games are played. We won't know anything for sure until preseason.

tyler

[MadtownPacker]

The fresh air is gonna makes Woodson's bones strong so they dont break.

[jack's smirking revenge]

The fresh air is gonna makes Woodson's bones strong so they dont break.

He will resurrect the Wolverine that was hidden away long ago....

Maybe Hugh Jackman can play him in the Packer 2006 movie.

tyler

[Bossman641]

Jack, my point is not that height is overrated. My point is that this is something that every NFl team has to deal with. It's not like Carroll is the runt of the CB litter. In fact, he is about average size.

Here's the Pro Bowl CB's from last year

Champ Bailey 6'0"
Deltha O'Neal 5'11"
Ty Law 5'11"
Ronde Barber 5'10"
DeAngelo Hall 5'10"
Nathan Vasher 5'10"

Most teams start at least 1 corner who is 5'10" or 5'11". There simply aren't that many 6'2" corners in the league. The tall corners that are in the league normally have marginal speed (hello Michael Hawthorne) because coaches move tall players with speed to WR in high school and college.

If you have a problem with his actual skills that is fine with me. I just hate when people (not necessarily you), just say that he is too small.

Personally, with the recent rule changes prohibiting contact between CB's and WR's, I think it is more important to have fast corners than big corners that can knock WR's off their routes.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Jack, my point is not that height is overrated. My point is that this is something that every NFl team has to deal with. It's not like Carroll is the runt of the CB litter. In fact, he is about average size.

Here's the Pro Bowl CB's from last year

Champ Bailey 6'0"
Deltha O'Neal 5'11"
Ty Law 5'11"
Ronde Barber 5'10"
DeAngelo Hall 5'10"
Nathan Vasher 5'10"

Most teams start at least 1 corner who is 5'10" or 5'11". There simply aren't that many 6'2" corners in the league. The tall corners that are in the league normally have marginal speed (hello Michael Hawthorne) because coaches move tall players with speed to WR in high school and college.

If you have a problem with his actual skills that is fine with me. I just hate when people (not necessarily you), just say that he is too small.

Personally, with the recent rule changes prohibiting contact between CB's and WR's, I think it is more important to have fast corners than big corners that can knock WR's off their routes.

Very good points and well stated. Perhaps teams should start converting their useless, tall WRs that don't make the cut into CBs.

As a big proponent of defense, I'm frustrated by the rule changes. I understand the NFL's goal of increasing scoring, but for those of us that like to see tight, close defensive struggles, its annoying to watch CBs get burned on a regular basis.

Eh, the more I think about my point, the more I'm siding with you. CB speed is really the key in this game with the rule changes. Vasher and the Bears defense lost their playoff game to Steve Smith--not because of size, but because of speed.

As you suggested, size isn't necessarily Carroll's problem. He's got a list of other ones to address. Maybe Woodson will help him solve those problems and develop into a top-notch corner.

Which would bring up an interesting problem for the Packers then: in a year, when Ahmad is ready to hit the street, do you ante up for him, even though you signed Woodson to a 5 year deal?

tyler

[Chester Marcol]

When it comes to Carroll it reminds me of a quote from a very wise man. 'Fool me once, shame on.....shame on you. Fool me............you can't get fooled again'. My optimism has sailed. I think Carroll has found his home at nickel with the next stop being dime and then door. At best I hope he's a great nickel or a useful draft pick. I'm tired of getting sucked into the optimism of a player that has had every opportunity to show he belongs. Like others say, for the sake of the Packers, I hope he does turn it around. Maybe all he needed was a bit of humility. Unfortunately I think his instincts run so deep, that I'm not sure I ever want him in the game on a top reciever in a clutch last minute drive when he feels he's been beat and he does what he always does and grabs.

[Chester Marcol]

Which would bring up an interesting problem for the Packers then: in a year, when Ahmad is ready to hit the street, do you ante up for him, even though you signed Woodson to a 5 year deal?
tyler

Carroll signed a 6yr deal I believe with this being his 3rd year. And it was only for 7mil if I read right.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Which would bring up an interesting problem for the Packers then: in a year, when Ahmad is ready to hit the street, do you ante up for him, even though you signed Woodson to a 5 year deal?
tyler

Carroll signed a 6yr deal I believe with this being his 3rd year. And it was only for 7mil if I read right.

My bad. Thanks for clarifying.

tyler

[gureski]

Correct me if I'm wrong but most every team in the league starts its two best CB's?

The third best CB becomes the #3 CB or what is often referred to as the 'Nickel' back.

IF Carroll is one of the 2 best CB's on this team next year then he WILL start. Current odds are very high that he will not beat out Harris or Woodson.

Now, if Carroll doesn't beat out Woodson or Harris then there is no way that anyone can proclaim that Carroll is better then Woodson or Harris if he starts the season at #3 CB. As of reports from voluntary workouts recently, Carroll is behind Woodson and Harris on the depth chart. All signals point to Carroll being the Nickel back and not being as good or better options then Woodson or Harris.

Carroll stated himself, in an interview with Jason Wilde just yesterday, that he played TERRIBLY and hurt the team last year so let's not get carried away and overrate the guy. He said himself he played poorly.

Now, with all that stated.... in order to have a breakout season you have to do something special. You do not have a breakout season as a demoted nickel back. His career is sliding in the wrong direction! All he can do this year, as a nickel back, is stop the bleeding!

You earn your way into the starting line up as a nickel back but you don't mark your career as a nickel back. At least not if you have any kind of future in front of you, that is.

Carroll could revive his career as a nickel back by playing solid football, correcting his mistakes, and gaining confidence by covering the #3 WR on other teams. If he does all that, he will be in line to start again but it will not be a 'Breakout' season. The Breakout season would come when he reassumes a starting job and plays above average to great football. That's what breakout would imply. To just play good as a nickel back is merely to save his career, not launch

If you disagree with this then give your definition of breakout because it's got to be different then conventional wisdom.

[The Leaper]

I don't see Carroll breaking out this year...although I think we are going to see his game take a nice step forward, which will point toward developing into a solid starter for 2007.

I do think he will make some big plays in 2006...he's going to be able to sit back and learn, and I think he will be one of the best nickle backs in the league. He's a great insurance policy on Woodson and Harris, who both have potential for missing time due to injury.

[CaptainKickass]

I voted yes.

This HAS to be his breakout year. My concept of breakout for him means breaking out of the bad habits, and maturing under the tutelage of both Woodson and Harris.

Anyone who believes that Harris is old, average, and lost a step at age 31 is crazy. That guy has been nothing but consistently tough and has been more than effective since we acquired him from Philedelphia.

[gureski]

See, that's the place where I, and others, will part ways....

To have a 'Breakout' season then that means something special. Just playing solid football is not the equivilent to something special. Eliminating mistakes is a step in the right direction but it's not special. It's not something that will mark his coming of age.

It's a step. Not a leap, is what I'm pointing out.

Playing solid football is a step. Breaking out would be a leap.

[jack's smirking revenge]

I agree with gureski. He's a millionaire, former #1 pick. He should be a starter and we should be confident of his abilities, not looking for him to cut down his mistakes and be more consistent in his 3rd year in the league. We shouldn't be hearing admissions from him that he played "horrible". But I guess "breakout" does apply from the perspective that expectations are so low for him that he should be able to prove to us that he's not a failure.

tyler

[FavreChild]

My thought on this is quite simple - it's much more fun to root for Carroll than against him. It's also more fun to take a chance than to back a sure thing.

So...go Ahmad.

Also, we have other players on the team that can fill the scapegoat role this year. Like Billy Cundiff.

[CaptainKickass]

I've got Carrol down for 3 turnovers this year. Any combo of picks/forced fumbles will do.

Does that count as a breakout season for him?