RB Ryan Grant optimistic about new contract

[bobblehead]

If he signs the tender and blows out a knee in practice they wont give him another dime. He's being very smart IMO. There's no reason he cant get a chunk of the $15+mil available this year under the cap with a moderate salary with incentives for the next 3.

Julius Jones got 4/$12. I dont think that would be unreasonable for Grant at all. $3mil signing bonus, $4mil in incentives over the next 4 and a base of $1.25mil avg for each season.

Here is the problem. If we gave him 4/12 like jones it would be unfair to the club. We have him, exclusive, for minimum for 3 years. It would be in effect giving him about 10 million for year 1 of FA, and no garauntee he doesn't hold out again later since the 10 million would have been paid out over the first 3 years anyway. ie, if year 4 pays 4 million he has in effect collected 6 million of the "buyout" already, and he may hold out then saying 4 million isn't enough and he wants a new deal.

We really had a long thread on this before the JS site went down and some good points were made. My problem is this, Bigby finished really strong and signed the deal (he didn't fumble twice against seattle either). If you cave on Grant, why not pay bigby?? What about if another undrafted or exclusive rights guy has a big half year this season? Do we automatically give him more than he has coming?

I get Grants position, he got a late start in the NFL (his own fault) and now he wants to get paid before he gets old. I wish they had offered him and Bigby a 1 million tender no strings attached to reward them for their play. It would have been a great message, but on the flip side they have extended guys who have played by the rules of the collective bargaining agreement, and if Grant had just signed the deal and had a good 8 games this year I bet he would have gotten a nice deal about midway, now.....TT may play it a bit harder.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Bigby finished really strong and signed the deal (he didn't fumble twice against seattle either). If you cave on Grant, why not pay bigby?? What about if another undrafted or exclusive rights guy has a big half year this season? Do we automatically give him more than he has coming?

He didn't run for a Packers playoff record in rushing yards (200+) either.

You may want to do it with Bigby. The team might get a good deal by signing him early. It's a case-by-case basis, and Thompson has shown he won't go hard-line on contracts (he saves up money by not signing big name FAs, so he can keep his own players happy). It depends on how you value that particular player.

It's similar to what the Crew did with Ryan Braun. Now, an NFL player could hold out later on, but the team could also cut the player before his contract ends. That's just the way it works in the NFL.

[Zool]

Bigby finished really strong and signed the deal (he didn't fumble twice against seattle either). If you cave on Grant, why not pay bigby?? What about if another undrafted or exclusive rights guy has a big half year this season? Do we automatically give him more than he has coming?

He didn't run for a Packers playoff record in rushing yards (200+) either.

You may want to do it with Bigby. The team might get a good deal by signing him early. It's a case-by-case basis, and Thompson has shown he won't go hard-line on contracts (he saves up money by not signing big name FAs, so he can keep his own players happy). It depends on how you value that particular player.

It's similar to what the Crew did with Ryan Braun. Now, an NFL player could hold out later on, but the team could also cut the player before his contract ends. That's just the way it works in the NFL.

Right. Thats why you sign Grant to a decent signing bonus and put a bunch of incentives in the contract. If Grant doesn't play, its BJax and Fatboy along with Cement Shoes Herron and some practice squad guys. I wouldn't count on picking up a cast off from another team for a 6th each season.

[bobblehead]

Bigby finished really strong and signed the deal (he didn't fumble twice against seattle either). If you cave on Grant, why not pay bigby?? What about if another undrafted or exclusive rights guy has a big half year this season? Do we automatically give him more than he has coming?

He didn't run for a Packers playoff record in rushing yards (200+) either.

You may want to do it with Bigby. The team might get a good deal by signing him early. It's a case-by-case basis, and Thompson has shown he won't go hard-line on contracts (he saves up money by not signing big name FAs, so he can keep his own players happy). It depends on how you value that particular player.

It's similar to what the Crew did with Ryan Braun. Now, an NFL player could hold out later on, but the team could also cut the player before his contract ends. That's just the way it works in the NFL.

That is kinda my point, there is a system in place and he has no leverage at this point in time. I wasn't trying to say Bigby was as good as Grant down the stretch (but he did fumble in that record setting game you mention causing coronaries thruout wisconsin), I was saying he outplayed a minimum contract as well. The way it works in the NFL is that you sign the deals until you get to be a FA then you cash in. If you approach the club saying you might want to work out a mutually beneficial long term deal then good things might happen. So far Grant hasn't signed the deal and has no leverage, but I like him, I just wish he had signed first then made his desires known.

[HarveyWallbangers]

That is kinda my point, there is a system in place and he has no leverage at this point in time. I wasn't trying to say Bigby was as good as Grant down the stretch (but he did fumble in that record setting game you mention causing coronaries thruout wisconsin), I was saying he outplayed a minimum contract as well. The way it works in the NFL is that you sign the deals until you get to be a FA then you cash in. If you approach the club saying you might want to work out a mutually beneficial long term deal then good things might happen. So far Grant hasn't signed the deal and has no leverage, but I like him, I just wish he had signed first then made his desires known.

1) I think he has more leverage than Bigby because the Packers would be a lot worse off starting Brandon Jackson at RB than Aaron Rouse at S.
2) Like I said, you go by a case-by-case basis. Grant wasn't just solid last year. He was really good. Bigby was decent. Grant has a better case to make there.
3) RBs tend to have a short shelf-life in the NFL and are more suspectible to injuries than most positions, so I can see why a RB wants to get paid while he can.

A deal will get done with Grant, so I wouldn't sweat it. His agent knows he doesn't have premium leverage. It's a good chance to get a good deal and reward a player who will likely be a cornerstone on your team for the next several years. In four years, $3M/year might look like a bargain for Grant--just like it was when Ahman was playing for that at the end of his contract. Braun's salary will look like a bargain at the end of his contract too. Thompson didn't have to reward Donald Driver twice in the last three years, but he did. He doesn't have to break the bank to do it, it keeps the guy happy, and it signals to your team that you reward your own.

This situation is similar to Javon Walker, but Thompson has learned from that. He also has gotten his salary cap in order, so that helps. Thompson has changed his philosophy. Realizing that Thompson isn't going to go after too many big FAs anyways and gives himself salary cap room, I'm okay with that.

[rbaloha1]

RG

RG deserves pay better than the minimum tender.

This is a tough situation for TT since rbs performance decline quickly.

I would not pay RG Marion Barber type money with huge guaranteed income. Contract should be incentive based which prevents salary cap hits.

IF RG chooses to hold-out it is not catastrophic. Brandon Jacobs finished the year strong and was singled out as one of the players expected to take it to the next level.

Brandon is explosive with great abilities after the initial hit. The rb situation is fine.

[Gunakor]

Re: RG

RG deserves pay better than the minimum tender.

This is a tough situation for TT since rbs performance decline quickly.

I would not pay RG Marion Barber type money with huge guaranteed income. Contract should be incentive based which prevents salary cap hits.

IF RG chooses to hold-out it is not catastrophic. Brandon Jacobs finished the year strong and was singled out as one of the players expected to take it to the next level.

Brandon is explosive with great abilities after the initial hit. The rb situation is fine.

If RG chooses to hold out, it's not going to be catastrophic to the Green Bay Packers. It could be catastrophic for Ryan Grant though. He doesn't have the ability to accept offers from any other team, so if he holds out he doesn't play until he decides to sign whatever deal Green Bay offers him.

The biggest thing here is that Ryan Grant needs the Green Bay Packers more than the Packers need Ryan Grant. It's just as easily believable that last season was a fluke as it is to believe that this season will be a stellar year for Grant. Without the Packers, Grant's career is over. Without Grant, Green Bay will simply find another RB to fill the starting role. Life still goes on.

Grant should just stop anticipating an injury as though it's certain to happen this year and just sign and get his ass on the practice field. If he wants to be a part of this team, now is the time to join them in getting ready for the season. If he just plays football the money will take care of itself in time. And as many on these forums have pointed out in other threads, if he signs a shorter deal now and waits for a couple years, he'll make more money overall because his next contract will be huge. If he signs a long term deal now for a modest salary, he'd be over 30 when the contract expires and won't find much luck getting his big contract from anybody. So perhaps it's in the teams best financial interest to lock him up long term, but I don't see any problems arising in the future in giving him a blockbuster deal in 2 years - should he earn it.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Re: RG

IF RG chooses to hold-out it is not catastrophic. Brandon Jacobs finished the year strong and was singled out as one of the players expected to take it to the next level.

Brandon Jacobs did finish strong. Unfortunately, we have Brandon Jackson. He flashed a few good plays, but he hardly finished strong. He did well enough to think he might be solid as a backup, but nothing that makes most think he can be a good starter. We'll see how much he improved in the offseason. I tend to think RBs either have it (vision, cutting ability, power) or they don't, so I'm skeptical. That's coming from a guy who liked Jackson when we drafted him.

This team had a terrible running game before Grant took over last year. Sure, we can alter our game-plan without him, but this team (without Brett Favre) isn't likely going to win a championship without a similar effort by Grant this year.

[sharpe1027]

Re: RG

Grant would be stupid to sign the tender. There is a difference between holding out and not signing a contract. For example, I think he could be fined thousands every day he misses training camp while under contract. He is not holding out right now and cannot be fined. He would be stupid to sign the tender and be forced to give up his only leverage, however small it is.

Bottom line:

They will sign him to a deal that is good for both sides. Everyone will pretty much forget this ever happened. Relax.

[bobblehead]

I think if I were TT I would invite Grant up to my office to talk and have an Eric Rhett tape playing on the bigscreen when he walked in. Then I would offer him a modest, but fair contract...take it or leave it.

I do however believe RG is the real deal, I just also happen to believe that finding a running back who can run behind a good line is not a big challenge...why I bet we could probably trade a 6th in next years draft for a guy who is stuck on someones depth chart who might be productive.

[MadtownPacker]

Re: RG

Grant should just stop anticipating an injury as though it's certain to happen this year and just sign and get his ass on the practice field. If he wants to be a part of this team, now is the time to join them in getting ready for the season. If he just plays football the money will take care of itself in time.

Seems like players that have injury and $$ on the brain usually end up getting both. The fact it is what fuels his request for more $$$ after half a season concerns me bigtime.

Can anyone say javon walker?

[Patler]

Grant is in the same position as Bubba Franks was when he was tagged, except Grant's contract is only a drop in the bucket of Franks' contract. Once the offer period ended, Franks had no option but to play for the Packers. Yet he refused to sign until a multi-year deal was worked out. Both were tendered one year contracts. Neither was satisfied with it.

Did Franks have any more leverage than Grant? I think he had much LESS, because the contract he was refusing to sign was worth millions of dollars, enough to set him up for life. Grant is risking a decent one year salary by our standards, but a McDonalds hamburger jockey salary by NFL standards.

I think Grant has more leverage than some of you are willing to acknowledge. Yes his performance was for less than a year, but it was consistent enough against enough different teams, it was very, very good, not just adequate and it was done without a stellar line; which indicate it was not a fluke. TT and MM know they need Grant this year. He made a big difference last year.

[Patler]

Re: RG

Grant should just stop anticipating an injury as though it's certain to happen this year and just sign and get his ass on the practice field. If he wants to be a part of this team, now is the time to join them in getting ready for the season. If he just plays football the money will take care of itself in time.

Seems like players that have injury and $$ on the brain usually end up getting both. The fact it is what fuels his request for more $$$ after half a season concerns me bigtime.

Can anyone say javon walker?

Maybe I missed it, but when did Grant use the Javon Walker argument about risk of injury as his reason for wanting a better contract? He's not practicing now when he is not signed, but normally the team will not allow them to anyway, because of the injury risk.

I don't recall Grant being quoted as saying he wants a bigger contract because of the risk of injury, just that he believes he has earned a better offer than what he has been given.

[Patler]

Cullen Jenkins was signed to a big contract a full year before he would have reach free agency, and it was based pretty much on the last four games of 2006 when he was moved to DE. Before then, Jenkins was "OK", but nothing special at DT, probably not special enough to have gotten more than the RFA tender.

Grant showed more over a longer time in 2007 than Jenkins did in 2006.

Personally, I think they gave Jenkins too much, and I said so at the time. I'm not in favor of a huge deal for Grant, either. But certainly more than $370,000.

[MadtownPacker]

Re: RG

Maybe I missed it, but when did Grant use the Javon Walker argument about risk of injury as his reason for wanting a better contract? He's not practicing now when he is not signed, but normally the team will not allow them to anyway, because of the injury risk.

I don't recall Grant being quoted as saying he wants a bigger contract because of the risk of injury, just that he believes he has earned a better offer than what he has been given.

Facts are not always your friend Sir Patler.

He may not say it but I am willing to bet he is thinking it. I went overboard with the walker comparison but usually when you fear bad things is when they happen in my experience.