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**PackFan#1** · 06-21-2008, 07:48 PM

The numbers are misleading. The top 3 pairs play in Cover 2 schemes. Cover 2 was designed to eliminate the long passes.

Guys like Woodson, Harris, Bly and Champ are man to man corners. They are all shut down corners. It's easier to complete passes against man than zone.

**Jimx29** · 06-21-2008, 07:55 PM

glancing at the title got me wondering what woody harrelson has to do with GB

**falco** · 06-21-2008, 08:44 PM

lets not fret, tramon williams is a god and will earn a starting spot soon - we got a lot of depth behind those two guys.

**Joemailman** · 06-21-2008, 08:49 PM

Not many teams put both their corners out on an island as much as the Packers do. Meaningless stats.

**packinpatland** · 06-21-2008, 08:57 PM

Seems odd...............to have gotten so far last year with corners that were 27th???? BS!

**mraynrand** · 06-21-2008, 09:06 PM

Maybe this is a good time to paraphrase Ted Thompson during the draft: "Don't fall in love with numbers so much, just pick guys who can play"

**SkinBasket** · 06-21-2008, 09:08 PM

Articles like this are written by interns trying to break into the business. It's like if I took a selective stat, say... Madtown hasn't had sex with a woman for 6 consecutive Tuesdays, and then offered that as concrete proof that he's gay.

**Partial** · 06-21-2008, 09:15 PM

weren't they rated as the best duo per the metrics the previous year?

**bobblehead** · 06-22-2008, 12:19 AM

Originally posted by SkinBasket

Articles like this are written by interns trying to break into the business. It's like if I took a selective stat, say... Madtown hasn't had sex with a woman for 6 consecutive Tuesdays, and then offered that as concrete proof that he's gay.

Then someone who only skims an article starts stating as fact that mad is gay....I read it on the internet, it must be true.

**packers11** · 06-22-2008, 12:33 AM

sportsline.com

Oakland's CB tandem No. 1? Insiders rank five better

DeAngelo Hall is wrong.

When the Oakland cornerback said in an ESPN.com interview that the Raiders had the best set of corners in the league, he erred. The Raiders aren't the best at anything unless, of course, you're talking about losing.

Their 19-61 record the past five years is the worst in the league.

As for their cornerbacks, they should make for a good tandem, and, yes, they could wind up being one of the league's best.

I said could. Because while Nnamdi Asomugha is terrific, Hall is erratic and unreliable -- a talented player who thinks he's better than he is and who is coming off two subpar seasons.

"He's the Chad Johnson of defense," said one NFL assistant. "He's too far gone to know he's gone."

Plus, he hasn't played a down in Oakland, so there's no yardstick here. All I know is the Raiders better hope Hall plays as tough as he talks.

"The only way the Raiders are the best pair of cornerbacks," said an AFC defensive coordinator, "is when Hall is doing the evaluating. It's like he's a self-proclaimed Muhammad Ali.

"But Oakland has its cornerbacks playing man-to-man most of the game, and that's tough. So you're going to notice them, just as you're going to notice cornerbacks in schemes that depend more on that position than in defenses like Indianapolis, Tampa Bay or Chicago."

Still, Hall and Asomugha are not in a league of their own. Not yet anyway, though one secondary coach conceded that "if Hall plays to his potential and (Asomugha) has a good year they might be the best."

And that got me to thinking: What's the competition? What are the tandems Hall and Asomugha are trying to catch? And where is the company they will try to keep?

Read on.

Green Bay Packers

Charles Woodson deserved better last season. Before suffering a toe injury, he was the Packers' top defensive back and one of the top defenders anywhere. Yet somehow he was left off the Pro Bowl team.

Big mistake.

So Woodson isn't as fast as he once was. He still can cover speed receivers, and he knows how to find the football. A year ago he recovered a fumble and returned it for the game-clinching touchdown against Washington. Then he picked off a pass against Kansas City and took it to the end zone.

"With Woodson and Al Harris," said a player personnel director, "you're getting veteran, talented leadership. Both are on the downsides of their careers, but both are still scary to face."

Ah, yes, Al Harris. I almost forgot. He was named to the Pro Bowl, and he has been solid for years. He and Woodson make a compelling case for numero uno -- provided, of course, Woodson stays healthy.

OK, so there's the age thing, too. Woodson turns 32 this season and Harris 34, and that's an issue. But they're hardly The Over the Hill Gang.

"The way (critics) look at people who are 31," Woodson said last year, "it's like me and Al are prehistoric."

Maybe they should talk to Green Bay's opponents.

San Diego Chargers
The difference-maker here is Antonio Cromartie, now entering his third season. Most observers will tell you that Quentin Jammer, Cromartie's partner, hasn't lived up to pre-draft expectations and is little more than an ordinary-to-good cornerback.

But Cromartie is different. Antonio Cromartie is an All-Pro waiting to happen.

"He's probably one year away from joining (Champ) Bailey as one of the league's special players," said an AFC personnel director. "He has speed, instincts and youth. I don't expect him to have 10 interceptions again, but I do expect him to get better, which means he pushes Bailey as the best at his position."

Cromartie last year led the league in interceptions, and he didn't start until the second half of the season. He has great ball instincts. He's quick. He's fast. And he's a game-breaker, with skeptics urged to cue up his interception return in San Diego's playoff defeat of Indianapolis.

"To me," said our player personnel director, "Jammer is just a guy. But Cromartie has no holes. The sky is the limit for him.

"Even though Jammer never lived up his draft hype, he's a good complement to (Cromartie). You're talking about tandems, right? That means you include Cromartie. This has to be one of the best."

Denver Broncos
Champ Bailey is still the platinum bar of cornerbacks, the standard by which others are measured, and I don't care if you buy into it or not. Most GMs, coaches and personnel directors do, and that's good enough for me.

"He's an elite player," said one general manager. "He not only makes all the plays; he makes whoever plays with him better."

That would be Dre' Bly, and there's nothing extraordinary about him other than he takes too many risks ("for every five plays he makes, he'll miss on two others," said one GM). But pair him with Bailey, and, suddenly, the conversation changes.

"Dre' Bly is nothing better than OK," said an AFC offensive assistant, "but having him with Champ Bailey makes him look better than he is."

Yes, Bailey was hurt last year. He still was second-team All-Pro. That should tell you something. So should this: He has been chosen to eight consecutive Pro Bowls and four straight All-Pro teams.

"The guy is special," a pro personnel director said. "There's no downside to him."

Dallas Cowboys
With the addition of Pacman Jones, the Cowboys have the "wow factor" owner Jerry Jones craves. Only -- who knows? -- it might be, "Wow, I can't believe he got arrested again."

That is one reason experts hedge on the Cowboys. With Jones and Terence Newman in the same secondary, Dallas seems to be equipped to defend itself against Super Bowl MVP Eli Manning, who shredded the Cowboys for seven TDs (including the playoffs) last season.

"Newman is a good, solid corner," said an AFC player personnel director, "but I don't consider him special. Pacman has special qualities, but he's a ding-a-ling. He's a better player than Bly, but he will take the same chances. Yes, he makes spectacular plays, but he also gives up big plays."

When Jones was with Tennessee he was more effective as a returner than as a cornerback. In fact, the Titans were a better defense with Nick Harper at corner than they were with Jones.

You can look it up: In 2006 they had the 27th-ranked pass defense; last year they were 10th.

I'm not blaming that on Pacman, but at the very least he was a factor. Harper isn't as talented, but he is more consistent -- and he proved it last season.

Nevertheless, expectations are high in Dallas, where fans believe Jones' addition could allow the Cowboys to be more aggressive on defense. Maybe, but keep this in mind: He hasn't suited up for a game in 18 months.

"It makes you wonder if he's the same player," said one scout.

Philadelphia Eagles
A year ago the Eagles had 11 interceptions and 19 takeaways, good for dead last in both categories. That must change, and it will -- primarily because the club hired former New England star Asante Samuel as a cornerback.

Samuel is a ballhawk who pulled down 16 interceptions in two years and returned three more for touchdowns in the playoffs, tying an NFL record.

Say no more about what he can do for Philadelphia. The Eagles' defense didn't produce one TD off a return in 2007.

"My favorite defensive back in the league is Asante Samuel," said Giants wide receiver David Tyree, "basically because he can do everything."

So the Eagles noticed. Samuel intercepted them twice last season, including one he returned for a 40-yard touchdown, and was a member of the team that defeated Philadelphia in Super Bowl XXXIX.

"When you have an opportunity to get the best one in the business then you need to look at that," said coach Andy Reid.

Samuel will be paired with Sheldon Brown and Lito Sheppard will be the first cornerback off the bench. Sheppard is a two-time Pro Bowl pick. Brown should have been named to a Pro Bowl but was not. Samuel is an All-Pro.

DeAngelo Hall, you have company.

**texaspackerbacker** · 06-22-2008, 12:39 AM

Originally posted by PackFan#1

The numbers are misleading. The top 3 pairs play in Cover 2 schemes. Cover 2 was designed to eliminate the long passes.

Guys like Woodson, Harris, Bly and Champ are man to man corners. They are all shut down corners. It's easier to complete passes against man than zone.

When you're right, you're right, Tank/PF#1. Good analysis.

**Guiness** · 06-22-2008, 10:30 AM

Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics

**CaliforniaCheez** · 06-22-2008, 11:52 AM

Having to fight with lawyers all the time I have learned to pull obscure stats on them and make mountains out of molehills.

It doesn't make them less true.

Just think where Harris and Carrol would rank.

One of the things Thompson is doing is setting up the team so if any starter wants to walk for big money there is someone ready to take their place.

Starting next year Woodson's contract gets much more expensive.

**packers11** · 06-22-2008, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by CaliforniaCheez

Starting next year Woodson's contract gets much more expensive.

Wrong... T.T. front loaded the contract... even on his last year, that is not that much for a cornerback...

4/26/2006: Signed a seven-year, $52 million contract. The deal included a $4 million signing bonus and $10.5 million in first-year guarantees.

2008: $3.25 million,
2009: $4 million,
2010: $5 million,
2011: $5.5 million,
2012: $6.5 million,
2013: Free Agent

Announcement

Woodson/Harris : near bottom of NFL as CB tandem

Woodson/Harris : near bottom of NFL as CB tandem

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