Thank you mike Sherman

[Tony Oday]

Tank face it SHERMAN SUCKED AS A GM!!!!!! He was a good coach that took over a veteran team and was a good caretaker but he never took risks in games at all and played like a whooped woman. He had some great seasons but which is the only GB coach EVER to lose a home playoff game? Yup Sherman. Only GM in GB history to trade up for a punter that cant KICK!!! WTF cmon man lay down the man crush.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Tank face it SHERMAN SUCKED AS A GM!!!!!! He was a good coach that took over a veteran team and was a good caretaker but he never took risks in games at all and played like a whooped woman. He had some great seasons but which is the only GB coach EVER to lose a home playoff game? Yup Sherman. Only GM in GB history to trade up for a punter that cant KICK!!! WTF cmon man lay down the man crush.

Why dont you admitt Sherman is better than Thompson? I'm gonna check sherman's record as GM again...hold..........

Ok, lets see here, 12-4, 10-6, 10-6.

I'm now looking to see if Sherman ever finished 4-12, as GM.

looking.....looking...still looking.

Found it....wait, according to this source (jsonline) some polar bear named Ted Thompson was GM durng the 4-12 campiegn. Hey, Sherman couldve gotten lots of cap room by opting not to resign Clifton and Tausher. If sherman could find a way to resign both of those players with less money than the 7.5 M thompson had last year, then Thompson should be able to resign Wahle and Sharper.

Sherman was better than Thompson. Bob Harlan fucked up as much as Ted THompson.

[red]

TT had to play with the shit that sherman had drafted

I'd be interested in seeing the success rates of some of the elite NFL teams from the last 4 years compared to the sorry draft skills of the late Sherman era. Of course, I am far too lazy to do the research.

Anyone else wanna take a peek into the drafting prowess of teams like the Steelers, Colts, and Pats?

By the way, I love this forum...keep up the good posts everyone (except APB)

steelers

2001

1 19* Casey Hampton - starter
2 8** Kendrell Bell-gone, but was a good starter while in PIt
4 16* Mathias Nkwenti- gone
5 15 Chukky Okobi- starter
6 18* Rodney Bailey - backup
6 19 Roger Knight - gone
7 18 Chris Taylor- gone

2 starters, 1 backup

2002

1 30 Kendall Simmons - starter
2 30 Antwaan Randle El - gone but started until this year
3 29 Chris Hope - gone
4 30 Larry Foote - starter
5 31 Verron Haynes - backup
6 30 Lee Mays - gone
7 1* Lavar Glover -gone
7 31 Bret Keisel - backup

2 starters, 2 backups

2003

1 16 Troy Polamalu - starter, pro bowler
2 27 Alonzo Jackson - gone, plays for the giants
4 28 Ike Taylor - starter
5 28 Brian St. Pierre - gone
7 28 J.T. Wall - gone

2 starters

2004

1 11 Ben Roethlisberger -starter, pro bowler
2 6 Ricardo Colclough -backup, played well last year
3 12 Max Starks Florida -starter
5 13 Nathaniel Adibi - gone
6 12 Bo Lacy -gone
6 29 Matt Kranchick -gone
6 32 Drew Caylor -gone
7 11 Eric Taylor -gone

2 starters, 1 backup

so the steelers added 8 starters, and 4 backups. and a couple of decent players that went elsewhere and they had 28 picks

we had 3 or 4 starters and 5 backups

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Re: Thank you mike Sherman

lets review

2001

1 Jamal Reynolds DE- LOL, gone
2 Robert Ferguson WR- on very thin ice, has shown very little over his career
3a Bhawoh Jue CB- gone
3b Torrance Marshall LB- gone
4 Bill Ferrario OG- gone
6 David Martin TE- close to being gone

Ron Wolf was never GM of the Packers. Ron Wolf is just a name.

I admit, Sherman screwed up with that draft class. But.....

You forgot to mention Sherman also drafted these starters:

Chad Clifton
Mark Tausher
Donald Driver
Antionio Freeman
Dorsey Levens
Darren Sharper
Mike Wahle
Mike Flanagan
Robert Brooks
Doug Evens
Craig Newsome
Tyrone Williams
Mark Chruma
Bubba Franks
William Henderson
Edger Bennett
Wayne Simmion, among others.

Lets not forget, Sherman traded for Al Harris and Brett Favre. However, the most influential transaction of the Sherman reign was the signing of free agent Reggie White.

Give credit where credit is due.

are u giving sherman cerdit for ur superbowl win? and are you saying sherman was gm? during the 90's sherman was niether gm nor head Coach, thats like giving jags cerdit for this pasr draft. and thats just dumb.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Re: Thank you mike Sherman

[quote="PaCkFan_n_MD"][quote="Anti-Polar Bear"]

are u giving sherman cerdit for ur superbowl win? and are you saying sherman was gm? during the 90's sherman was niether gm nor head Coach, thats like giving jags cerdit for this pasr draft. and thats just dumb.

No, that's like saying Sherman drafted Reynalds and Ferguson and Marshall, etc.

Ron Wolf is just a name. You are stupid if you think Ron Wolf drafted Reynalds and Ferguson and Marshall.

[retailguy]

2 8** Kendrell Bell-gone, but was a good starter while in PIt

2 30 Antwaan Randle El - gone but started until this year


1 Javon Walker - traded our 1st and second to pick him, got one good year out of him, he's GONE

so the steelers added 8 starters, and 4 backups. and a couple of decent players that went elsewhere and they had 28 picks

we had 3 or 4 starters and 5 backups

Red,

Here is a perfect example of the problems I have with your "analysis". I have no problems with your "opinions" but you present them as facts and it drives me CRAZY.

You, when you did your intial analysis gave "loose credit" to Mike Sherman for his drafting of Javon Walker, but the implication was clear - He was a one hit wonder and we traded up for him and therefore it was a POOR decision.

Then, when "analyzing" the Steelers you made the above statement - "played well while in Pitt".

Couldn't all of us agree that Walker also "played well" while he was here? Isn't it EXACTLY the same situation?

If you want to clobber Sherman for his trading up to pick players, have at it, it is pretty indefensible. However, if you want to "bash" him for his selections, you are on thinner ice than you realized....

The "few" players that Pittsburg drafted and started over the players Sherman drafted and started can easily be explained by the additional selections that Pittsburg had.

Clearly, your analysis shows that it is a crapshoot at best to draft players, whether you are in Pitt or GB. The odds are well below 50%.

So, your analysis shows in my opinion that draft picks have a much higher value than Mike Sherman placed on them. Now look at WHY Sherman didn't value draft picks.... That analysis, coming from you, should be VERY interesting and I'm curious. I'm happy to share my opinion with you after I hear yours.

[red]

2 8** Kendrell Bell-gone, but was a good starter while in PIt

2 30 Antwaan Randle El - gone but started until this year


1 Javon Walker - traded our 1st and second to pick him, got one good year out of him, he's GONE

so the steelers added 8 starters, and 4 backups. and a couple of decent players that went elsewhere and they had 28 picks

we had 3 or 4 starters and 5 backups

Red,

Here is a perfect example of the problems I have with your "analysis". I have no problems with your "opinions" but you present them as facts and it drives me CRAZY.

You, when you did your intial analysis gave "loose credit" to Mike Sherman for his drafting of Javon Walker, but the implication was clear - He was a one hit wonder and we traded up for him and therefore it was a POOR decision.

Then, when "analyzing" the Steelers you made the above statement - "played well while in Pitt".

Couldn't all of us agree that Walker also "played well" while he was here? Isn't it EXACTLY the same situation?

If you want to clobber Sherman for his trading up to pick players, have at it, it is pretty indefensible. However, if you want to "bash" him for his selections, you are on thinner ice than you realized....

The "few" players that Pittsburg drafted and started over the players Sherman drafted and started can easily be explained by the additional selections that Pittsburg had.

Clearly, your analysis shows that it is a crapshoot at best to draft players, whether you are in Pitt or GB. The odds are well below 50%.

So, your analysis shows in my opinion that draft picks have a much higher value than Mike Sherman placed on them. Now look at WHY Sherman didn't value draft picks.... That analysis, coming from you, should be VERY interesting and I'm curious. I'm happy to share my opinion with you after I hear yours.

well i did say javon had 1 good year, which he did, out of 4 seasons here. we still don't know for sure if he is an elite talent, or had one fluke year. kendell bell had 2 very good years for the steelers and one other decent year, in his 4 years with the team, thats more then walker did for us. walker, and the two steelers were not included in the final numbers.

i should also mention that i think i was using a depth chart for 2005 for the steelers, so its not exact by any means. but it can give you a ruff idea

the steelers did not have additional selections. i counted 2001 for shermans drafts because he was the gm, and i have to imagine he had some input into that draft. the packers had 27 picks during shermans period, and the steelers had 28 over that same time

in that time the steelers drafted twice as many starters as us with the same amount of picks. to me, that shows better drafting, and not just luck

[retailguy]

well i did say javon had 1 good year, which he did, out of 4 seasons here. we still don't know for sure if he is an elite talent, or had one fluke year. kendell bell had 2 very good years for the steelers and one other decent year, in his 4 years with the team, thats more then walker did for us. walker, and the two steelers were not included in the final numbers.

i should also mention that i think i was using a depth chart for 2005 for the steelers, so its not exact by any means. but it can give you a ruff idea

the steelers did not have additional selections. i counted 2001 for shermans drafts because he was the gm, and i have to imagine he had some input into that draft. the packers had 27 picks during shermans period, and the steelers had 28 over that same time

in that time the steelers drafted twice as many starters as us with the same amount of picks. to me, that shows better drafting, and not just luck

Red,

Let's be realistic. You can't give Mike Sherman blame or credit for 2001. Ron Wolf was GM. You can't do it for the same reason you can't give Sherman credit for the 2005 draft, as he was still here and had "input" reported by all parties including Thompson.

Give the 2001 a rest. It isn't reasonable.

If you look at 2002-2004, Pittsburg had to have more draft choices than Sherman did. He traded up far far too often. Even factoring in compensatory picks, Pittsburg had to have more selections.

I am on my way out the door and I don't have time to total them up, but give it a look and see what I mean. When you factor in the lower number of picks and the players that Sherman traded for by giving up picks, it brings things better into focus than just making a "blanket statement".

[red]

we can do a breakdown by round, and look at that. usually the higher picks should be the better players that make the team, and the late rounders have a smaller shot

1st rounders

packers - 2 of 4 are still with us with 1 starting and i backup who might be a starter again someday

steelers- 4 of 4 are still with the team, all starters

2nd round

we are 1 for 1 with furguson being the only second round pick we had.

steelers

1 for 4 they still have one backup, the other 3 play for other teams

3rd

packers- 1 for 7, kenny peterson is the only 3rd rounder we have left

steelers- they are 1 for 2 with that one guy being a starter

4th

we are 1 for 2 with najeh as a backup

steelers are 2 for 3 with 2 starters

5th

we are 1 for 4 with 1 starter

steelers are 2 for 4 with 1 starter and 1 backup

6th

we are 3 for 4, 4 backups. i think i forgot to include curtan in the original one

steelers are- 1 for 6, 1 backup

7th

we are 1 for 5 with wells being the one guy

they are 1 for 5 with that guy being a backup

looking at that i think they did better in the first 4 rounds. they hit on all their 1st rounders, 4 starters, thats what you should get with 1st rounders. we had 1 starter, 1 backup, 1 complete bust, and one guy that gave us one good year and demanded to leave

[red]

well i did say javon had 1 good year, which he did, out of 4 seasons here. we still don't know for sure if he is an elite talent, or had one fluke year. kendell bell had 2 very good years for the steelers and one other decent year, in his 4 years with the team, thats more then walker did for us. walker, and the two steelers were not included in the final numbers.

i should also mention that i think i was using a depth chart for 2005 for the steelers, so its not exact by any means. but it can give you a ruff idea

the steelers did not have additional selections. i counted 2001 for shermans drafts because he was the gm, and i have to imagine he had some input into that draft. the packers had 27 picks during shermans period, and the steelers had 28 over that same time

in that time the steelers drafted twice as many starters as us with the same amount of picks. to me, that shows better drafting, and not just luck

Red,

Let's be realistic. You can't give Mike Sherman blame or credit for 2001. Ron Wolf was GM. You can't do it for the same reason you can't give Sherman credit for the 2005 draft, as he was still here and had "input" reported by all parties including Thompson.

Give the 2001 a rest. It isn't reasonable.

If you look at 2002-2004, Pittsburg had to have more draft choices than Sherman did. He traded up far far too often. Even factoring in compensatory picks, Pittsburg had to have more selections.

I am on my way out the door and I don't have time to total them up, but give it a look and see what I mean. When you factor in the lower number of picks and the players that Sherman traded for by giving up picks, it brings things better into focus than just making a "blanket statement".

sherman was the GM for the 2001 draft, he was given the job months before. do you seriously think he would give total control of his team to a guy on his way out? IMO sherman had a lot of say in that draft

the last rounds of the draft were 13 to 15, they had 2 more picks then us

[packer4life]

Hey thanks for the reply Red.

I do think the fact that the Steelers hit 4 for 4 in the first round indicates superior drafting, seeing that the top rounds have the highest chance of players making the pro-bowl and being solid starters in this league.

The later rounds really are crap shoots. This fact makes me happy that TT traded down so much this year. Time will tell if it made an impact -- I pray to god that a player like chad jackson doesn't light up this league...that would bring on way too many "I told you so" in packer forums s

[Scott Campbell]

Sherman's secret to a quality draft? Plenty of rest.

[woodbuck27]

Sherman's secret to a quality draft? Plenty of rest.

Hi Scott.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

thats some good scouting............lmao

[prsnfoto]

2 8** Kendrell Bell-gone, but was a good starter while in PIt

2 30 Antwaan Randle El - gone but started until this year


1 Javon Walker - traded our 1st and second to pick him, got one good year out of him, he's GONE

so the steelers added 8 starters, and 4 backups. and a couple of decent players that went elsewhere and they had 28 picks

we had 3 or 4 starters and 5 backups

Red,

Here is a perfect example of the problems I have with your "analysis". I have no problems with your "opinions" but you present them as facts and it drives me CRAZY.

You, when you did your intial analysis gave "loose credit" to Mike Sherman for his drafting of Javon Walker, but the implication was clear - He was a one hit wonder and we traded up for him and therefore it was a POOR decision.

Then, when "analyzing" the Steelers you made the above statement - "played well while in Pitt".

Couldn't all of us agree that Walker also "played well" while he was here? Isn't it EXACTLY the same situation?

If you want to clobber Sherman for his trading up to pick players, have at it, it is pretty indefensible. However, if you want to "bash" him for his selections, you are on thinner ice than you realized....

The "few" players that Pittsburg drafted and started over the players Sherman drafted and started can easily be explained by the additional selections that Pittsburg had.

Clearly, your analysis shows that it is a crapshoot at best to draft players, whether you are in Pitt or GB. The odds are well below 50%.

So, your analysis shows in my opinion that draft picks have a much higher value than Mike Sherman placed on them. Now look at WHY Sherman didn't value draft picks.... That analysis, coming from you, should be VERY interesting and I'm curious. I'm happy to share my opinion with you after I hear yours.

It is true Pittsburg is not a stellar example but Seattle is Thompson drafted 37 players while there and when he left for Green Bay 30 where still on Seattle's team the draft is not only to find stars like Alexander it is to build depth that is what TT is doing here and he did in Seattle, it is also why we were 4-12 last year there were no back-ups. There is no defense for what Sherman did to the team and to a hall of fame QB both deserved better. It also does not take into account the cap blunders that put us in that position Johnson,Reynolds,Hunt,KGB,Sharper, extensions or original contracts that killed this teams cap, I will jump all over TT if he does the same with Pickett and Woodson fair is fair but there is no doubt Sherman was in way over his head. Who do we blame for that? I blame Ron Wolf I think he wanted to protect his legacy and didn't want the pack to be great quite so soon I mean come on Ray Rhodes and a guy with no head coaching or Gm experience to follow Holmgren. Just a Thought.