Can a great QB make an average team great

[dissident94]

I say yes. We have been spoiled to think anyone could walk in and tak this team over. I have been saying this over and over. The little things Farve brings to an offense like pre snap reads, leadership in the huddle,the confidence the others feel knowing Favre is there will be greatly missed and seems already apparent with the Jets.

I have felt this all summer. The talent on this team is not as deep and as good as many here feel it is. Our O-line has hole. Our Rbs are a question mark. Our WR while deep do not have that one feared weapon like a TO or Moss. the Defensive line is not as strong.

Do not underestimate the play of QB. We have been spoiled and may now be paying for it.

We will see. And I am not bashing Rodgers. It will take him at least a year.
But when you almost made the super bowl you do not replace your QB. Pretty obvious

[MJZiggy]

It's over. And the regular season hasn't even started. "Shoulda" ain't worth shit at the moment.

[packerbacker1234]

While no one really wants to keep comparing rodgers and favre.. as someone who saw both paly last night:

Favre did a lot of three step drop, decision, throw. Went 5/6 with a TD. Rodgers did a lot of three step drop, no decision, take a sack... or run around, throw ball away.

As they said "coverage sacks". No, it's called indecision on where to throw the ball. The quick throw offense, the one the packers ran this year, and almost every NFL team has, requires presnap defensive reads, so you know where to put the ball right off the threep step drop. He appearently isnt' getting good reads of the defense, or is just thinking too much. It's one thing to stare at a primary reciever, it's another thing to over think it. "ok, so DD is double covered on the slant... thats the mlb who has underneath... so that means I should throw it too... damnit" It's gotta be instinct, as favre so gracefully put it this week.

The nfl, for QB's, is a read and react league. It's instinct, there isn't time to think back there. Three step drops are sometimes all you get to get rid of a ball, and Rodgers was not reacting last night. Even last week, he didn't really react, he was just given time all game long, something we know with our line wont happen. I think we took for granted how man sacks Favre not only avoided with his scramble ability, but also with his quick reactions. Manning has it, Brady, Romo, even McNabb. Those reaction passes is what makes and breaks a crappy QB, from a Good one. Rodgers needs mroe time, but he apparently is not confident in himself. A confident QB gets rid of the ball fast, especially when the rush is right in your face.

[dissident94]

Like it or not we must compare Farve with Rodgers.

We were 13-3 last year and we changed QB. We will always have to compare the QBs. If we go 6-10 and the only thing that changed was QB it logical to say there is a correlation there.

Also very funny. Many on here talk about the offseason work is so important for chemistry.

This team has absolutely no chemistry right now. While Favre with the JEts for one week seems to have more.

[ND72]

Like it or not we must compare Favre with Rodgers.

wrong...no we don't. Only the most ignorant will, because they have to live in the past, or play the "what if's". it's stupid, because it's done. We don't have to compare Rodgers to anyone else, but Aaron Rodgers. They are 2 different people, and now, on 2 different teams. get over it and move on.

[MJZiggy]

What you're comparing right now is Favre's instinct after 16 years to Rodgers first season. I'm guessing here that if you go back to 1992-93 you might find a few plays there where Favre wasn't throwing it by instinct. We can't give the kid a break at least until the season starts before we start expecting Hall of Fame performance out of him every game?

[ND72]

What you're comparing right now is Favre's instinct after 16 years to Rodgers first season. I'm guessing here that if you go back to 1992-93 you might find a few plays there where Favre wasn't throwing it by instinct. We can't give the kid a break at least until the season starts before we start expecting Hall of Fame performance out of him every game?

From the mind of a genius...

nice response Zig

[packerbacker1234]

What you're comparing right now is Favre's instinct after 16 years to Rodgers first season. I'm guessing here that if you go back to 1992-93 you might find a few plays there where Favre wasn't throwing it by instinct. We can't give the kid a break at least until the season starts before we start expecting Hall of Fame performance out of him every game?

Favre, back in 1992, and 1993, was all instinct. He had no idea what defenses he was facing (as was obvious by the "whats a nickle mean" comment), so it was all take the snap, get rid of the ball, he's covered, second giuy is coverd... ok run around and just keep the head up. Someone will get open. Thats how he played then, and still really how he plays now. Favre has never, nro will really ever, be that good at presnap defensive reads. He has, however, always been good at getting rid of that ball fast. Not just due to his arm strength, but due to pure reaction.

In fact, I remember Tom Brady coming in for Beldsoe int he playoffs and doing the same thing to win a super bowl. Manning did it. (peyton). McNabb did it (thats why he wasn't booed all the way out of philly), and if you look at the career of any qb who is starting for a team for 5+ seasons, you will see a guy that when put into the game, had success on the field, even if the team didn't win. Eli Manning was reaching hte end of the line in NY till he came on last season, which is proof that yes, it can take a couple years to get to that point for some.

Rodger's just isn't at this point, and it will be a miracle if he makes it to midseason.

I am not expecting hall of fame performance, and as a true packer fan I support rodgers and hope he does well so we can win ball games, but if your willing to get rid of a guy wh o lead you to 13 - 3 just because of some indecisions he had in the offseason and you commit to Rodgers, then you naturally expect Rodgers to play better then he did. Especially given that he did have time to throw the ball, and couldn't make much happen. I am not expecting Rodgers to be all world, but by all means he better play good enough for us to contend for a playoff birth, because we gave up somebody who would of to go with the guy. I know, first season he gets breaks, and it's NOT HIS FAULT IN THE LEAST BIT. i applaud rodgers for how he has handled everything. But, Managment put him in aposition where as packer fans, we have to expect him to do decent this season... because thats the type of confident vote TT gave him. Your the best guy for the job.

Well, he is now... and I am not impressed. As any packer fan, we don't like throwing seasons when we don't have too... and this may turn into it.

I hope not, but more games like last night and god forbid we win even 6 games.

[Scott Campbell]

If we go 6-10 and the only thing that changed was QB it logical to say there is a correlation there.

The only thing? The ONLY thing????

Here's a partial list of things that have changed since last year.


1) Jordy Nelson
2) Brian Brohm
3) Josh Sitton
4) Jerimichael Finley
5) Craig Nall is gone.
6) Corey Williams is gone.
7) Jarrett Bush is about to be gone.
8) Donald Driver is a year older.
9) Charles Woodson is a year older.
10) Chad Clifton is a year older.
11) Al Harris is a year older.


etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc...........................



Your analysis is a gross oversimplification. There are lots and lots of variables at play, of which Favre being gone is probably the most significant.

[TravisWilliams23]

Quarterback play is obviously very important to a teams fortunes but it's not the end all.

Dan Marino, Hall of Famer, had all those passing records, could read defenses better than most, but NO SUPER BOWL RING!

Peyton Manning, to be Hall of Famer, didn't get his ring until Tony Dungy brought a DEFENSE to Indy.

Brett Favre, soon to be Hall of Famer, hasn't won a Super Bowl in 10 + years because of what? TEAM just not good enough and questionable coaching.

In last nights game A-rod had a td pass dropped and a bomb to Driver dropped. Who knows how the game unfolds IF either one of those receivers makes the catch on those plays.

I'm sure MM is holding his cards for the regular season. This is still training camp and this is where management needs to see just what they have. The roster will be cut and this is how you see who makes the team.

Give it some time.

[Bretsky]

If we go 6-10 and the only thing that changed was QB it logical to say there is a correlation there.

The only thing? The ONLY thing????

Here's a partial list of things that have changed since last year.


1) Jordy Nelson
2) Brian Brohm
3) Josh Sitton
4) Jerimichael Finley
5) Craig Nall is gone.
6) Corey Williams is gone.
7) Jarrett Bush is about to be gone.
8) Donald Driver is a year older.
9) Charles Woodson is a year older.
10) Chad Clifton is a year older.
11) Al Harris is a year older.


etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc...........................



Your analysis is a gross oversimplification. There are lots and lots of variables at play, of which Favre being gone is probably the most significant.

Wait, wouldn't all the players, and their competitors, be a year older

I say BRING BACK NALL

[Scott Campbell]

Wait, wouldn't all the players, and their competitors, be a year older

And Brett too. All that was covered with the 3rd etc.


The point is that it's overly simplistic to take something this complex and try to pin it down to one variable.

[Bretsky]

Wait, wouldn't all the players, and their competitors, be a year older

That was covered with the 3rd etc.

since we're one of the youngest teams in the NFL......theoretically shouldn't players being a year older help us ?

ah, forget it.......I'm just giving you crap cause I'm bored and didn't get to see the game and this is more fun than cleaning

[Scott Campbell]

Wait, wouldn't all the players, and their competitors, be a year older

That was covered with the 3rd etc.

since we're one of the youngest teams in the NFL......theoretically shouldn't players being a year older help us ?

Yes. I'm not making the case that they're better or worse than last year. I'm saying it's a different team (not just one player), as is every team in the NFL.


In response to the original question, I say no. A great QB can make an average team better, but can't take the team all the way to greatness all by himself.

[imscott72]

Like it or not we must compare Favre with Rodgers.

We were 13-3 last year and we changed QB.

You make it sound like the Packers chose to change QB's. Not to beat a dead horse, but Brett retired. Brett forced the Packers to make a change, not once, but twice. They were prepared to welcome him back twice but were told each time "no thanks". Nothing else they could do.