NFC North - A new overview

[Dabaddestbear]

I just don't see all the talent on the Bears that some others see.
To me, they look extremely thin overall.

They have 2 DEs better than Kampman and KGB. Both are serious pass rushers.

They have this generations warren sapp and best pass rushing tackle in the league in Harris. Their other DT is a big fatty who can stop the run. Both starters are better than anyone we have.

Urlacher and Briggs are both better than our best linebacker by a landslide.

Vasher is better than any corner we have. Brown is a better defensive back than any we have.

They're very, very, very good defensively.

Not so sure about that one. Vasher is good but I cant compare him to Harris till he starts convering the #1 WR. But I do think he is better than Woodson or any other DB on the Pack squad. But I agree with all else you said. Watch out for Dusty. He was starting next to Harris in OKL, now they are back together. Okl coach said Dusty was the best pure football player he ever coached on defense. He is just as quick as Tommie with a meaner streak. Watching them two on passing downs will be fun.

[wist43]

I don't think it's even a contest when it comes to comparing the talent levels of the Bears and Packers - the Bears are clearly a much more talented team.

As for coaching staffs - you can't make a comparison b/c nobody knows what the Packers have in McCarthy. To tell you the truth, I'd be very surprised if McCarthy comes out of the gates and gets the Packers off to a fast start. He was nobody's choice but Thompsons, and he and his coordinators have absolutely no experience in their positions.

Smith, on the other hand, has righted the ship down in Chicago, is providing good leadership, and is a solid game day coach.

The Bears are, in fact, at least 3 years ahead of the Packers, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit to see the Bears blow the Packers off the field on opening day.

As sad a prospect as that may seem.

[The Shadow]

I live near Chicago - and have watched every game they've played. Even watched some practice in Lake Forest.
Sorry, just don't see the perceived talent gap at all.
Alex Brown/KGB? I prefer KGB.
Kampmann /Owalywhatever? There's a big talent difference?
Tackles? Tommie Harris gives them a slight advantage, but otherwise, again their is no gaping talent gap.
Secondary? Woodson's addition & the coming of age of Collins + the addition of our new SS & the maturation of Carroll - again, don't see a gap.
Their best player, Brown, has lost more steps than he can afford.
The big difference has been the linebacker corp, and now, with the additions of Hawk, Hodge, & Taylor, even that is narrowing.
Offense?
Kreutz gives them a nice advantage at center. But Wells has his best football ahead of him; Olin is a banged-up, silly penalty-prone 30.
Their guards, esp. the elderly Rueben Brown, are nothing special. Of course, they get the nod because of experience over Colledge & Spitz, but wouldn't you rather be on the way up than the way down?
Tait/Clifton = a draw.
Tauscher is considerably better than the aging Fred Miller.
All 3 of our tight ends are better than any of theirs.
Receivers? Do YOU see a difference?
QB : Favre vs. Grossman/Griese? Please......
RB : It hinges on Green's recovery.

Repeat : the division is a crapshoot.

[The Shadow]

Oh yeah : forgot to mention their dismal draft.
They were so pleased with their mediocre offense, they did nothing to help it.
Overall, the Chicago Bears are a bit like we were 2 years ago : trying to hold on & patch, as key areas age quickly.
The Packers are on the way back up -and I like that a whole lot better.

[Bossman641]

I live in ILL and I watch the Bears nearly every week. i'm very familiar with their roster, here's my take.

QB I honestly think it's too soon to proclaim Grossman the real deal. For all the savior talk he gets from Bear fans, he's still only played in 8 games in his career. 4 Td's, 6 Int's, and a 54% completion rate. He also has 5 fumbles in those 8 games. Turner does call the game very differently when Grossman is in the game though. The threat alone of throwing the deep ball changes their offense completely.

RB I like Thomas Jones alot. He runs hard, can catch the ball, and doesn't fumble. Adrian Peterson is a nice change of pace back. I still think that Benson was a wasted pick last year but it's too early to say for sure. There's only so many carries to go around.

WR Honestly, their WR do not scare me. I understand Moose had fewer opportunities with Orton at the helm, but he had A LOT of drops last year. He'll give you 70 or so catches and 7-8 TD's but he is getting up there in age. You never know when he'll lose the marginal amount of speed that he has. They were waiting for Gage to step up all last year, didn't happen. Bradley had 1 good game last year before he got injured, too soon to proclaim him a capable starter. Berrian can stretch the field but again, too soon to say he's starter material.

OL Their line is good but Miller, Kreutz, and Brown are getting up there in age. I like Garza but if one your your tackles gets injured and you have to play Qasim Mitchell you are fucked. He is terrible.

DL I really like this position. The ends are good and Idonije is a good backup. Tommie Harris is a beast and they have a good roation at DT. Haynes hasn't lived up to his draft position though. Why is that?

LB Urlacher and Briggs, what can I say. All the other LB has to do is not make mental mistakes and you'll be fine.

CB I don't think Vasher is as good as his numbers indicate. He's not a shutdown guy. Tillman struggled last year, can throw on him all day. Who knows about Manning. I dunno if there will be any disciplinary action.

S Brown's had injury problems and I've always thought he was a little overrated, still very good though. I thought Harris did a good job for a rookie. That's why I was surprised at the Bear's draft.

I thought the Bears' draft sucked. Desmond Clark is nothing special and I thought for sure they would target a TE. Manning is coming from a small school. Will he contribute this year? Devin Hester is nothing special as a CB. Sure he can return kicks, but is it really worth a second round pick to grab a returner, especially when you need offensive help.

I have a question for you Baddest Bear. Is Lovie involved with the offense at all, or is that strictly under the control of Turner? Lovie is a good coach although he made some mistakes last year (poor clock management, etc). I like Rivera and thought somebody would pick him up as a coach this offseason. I predict 10-6 or 11-5 for the Bears.

[Partial]

I live near Chicago - and have watched every game they've played. Even watched some practice in Lake Forest.
Sorry, just don't see the perceived talent gap at all.
Alex Brown/KGB? I prefer KGB.
Kampmann /Owalywhatever? There's a big talent difference?
Tackles? Tommie Harris gives them a slight advantage, but otherwise, again their is no gaping talent gap.
Secondary? Woodson's addition & the coming of age of Collins + the addition of our new SS & the maturation of Carroll - again, don't see a gap.
Their best player, Brown, has lost more steps than he can afford.
The big difference has been the linebacker corp, and now, with the additions of Hawk, Hodge, & Taylor, even that is narrowing.
Offense?
Kreutz gives them a nice advantage at center. But Wells has his best football ahead of him; Olin is a banged-up, silly penalty-prone 30.
Their guards, esp. the elderly Rueben Brown, are nothing special. Of course, they get the nod because of experience over Colledge & Spitz, but wouldn't you rather be on the way up than the way down?
Tait/Clifton = a draw.
Tauscher is considerably better than the aging Fred Miller.
All 3 of our tight ends are better than any of theirs.
Receivers? Do YOU see a difference?
QB : Favre vs. Grossman/Griese? Please......
RB : It hinges on Green's recovery.

Repeat : the division is a crapshoot.

You're A Homer *clap, clap, clap clap calp*
*repeat*

The Bears defense is sick. They'll be top 3 in the league, and we'll be very good and top 10, but the difference in talent is still huge. Their defense is as good as the Raven's when they won the super bowl if not better.

[Partial]

Vasher may not be some amazing cover corner, but he's a risk taker and a playmaker. I'd love for him to be a Packer. Realistically, with my Packer googles off, the Bears are better at every position defensively. We are pretty close or worse in every position except for QB.

We have a HUGE advantage at QB, which should make the games a whole lot more competitive then they should be. Since QB is the most important positions, teams can get away with being suspect at some other positions when they have a great quarterback

[K-town]

You're A Homer *clap, clap, clap clap calp*
*repeat*

The Bears defense is sick. They'll be top 3 in the league, and we'll be very good and top 10, but the difference in talent is still huge. Their defense is as good as the Raven's when they won the super bowl if not better.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the vaunted Bear defense get shredded by ONE GUY in the playoffs? I remember watching an outstanding Ravens defense absolutely dominate everyone they played in 2000, especially in the playoffs.
I don't dispute that the talent level of the Bears defense is superior to ours, but puhleeze - top 3? One of the reasons the Bears achieved their defensive ranking last year is they got to play Detroit twice (with Joey Heatherton and Jeff Garcia), an injury ravaged/depth challenged Pack twice and a dysfuntional Viking squad led by Daunte & Tice. Does anybody else recall Trent Dilfer (!) beating the Bears with 2 late TD passes? The Bangles embarassing them? The Steelers flat out running them over?
I also seem to remember our NFL Europe/Arena League offense putting up over 325 yards in each of our two losses last year.
Will the Bears win the division this year? Probably. But it might be with an 8 and 8 record. And their defense will once again get exposed in the playoffs.

[Bossman641]

Vasher may not be some amazing cover corner, but he's a risk taker and a playmaker. I'd love for him to be a Packer. Realistically, with my Packer googles off, the Bears are better at every position defensively. We are pretty close or worse in every position except for QB.

You know why Vasher is a playmaker and can afford to take risks? Because he is on a very good defense that is able to create pressure with its front 4. He's able to jump routes because the QB only has a limited amount of time in the pocket. That, along with the fact that the Bears are very comfortable with their scheme, is why he makes plays.

Don't believe me? Check out his picks from last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll-dqKPMgjE&search=nathan%20vasher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ5yPMepvYA&search=nathan%20vasher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mch-2S7vsFw&search=nathan%20vasher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU6NpmSggZo&search=nathan%20vasher

I see a player who took advantage of errant throws by quarterbacks under pressure.

He's still a good player, but it's not as if he is making ridiculous interceptions. He's normally in correct position and he benefits from the Bear's good defense.

[Dabaddestbear]

I live in ILL and I watch the Bears nearly every week. i'm very familiar with their roster, here's my take.
well you must not be paying close attention..

QB I honestly think it's too soon to proclaim Grossman the real deal. For all the savior talk he gets from Bear fans, he's still only played in 8 games in his career. 4 Td's, 6 Int's, and a 54% completion rate. He also has 5 fumbles in those 8 games. Turner does call the game very differently when Grossman is in the game though. The threat alone of throwing the deep ball changes their offense completely.
I havent proclaimed Grossman as the starter. I said the QB possition with him and Griese is the best they have had in 20 years. That in effect means that is an improvement in that area.

RB I like Thomas Jones alot. He runs hard, can catch the ball, and doesn't fumble. Adrian Peterson is a nice change of pace back. I still think that Benson was a wasted pick last year but it's too early to say for sure. There's only so many carries to go around.
Once again the validity in the statements you make are so flawed its ridiculous. The Bears have a 1300 yd back in Jones, and the top rusher from college in Benson. Please tell me how Beson was a wasted pick? He averaged over 4.5 yds per game when he did touch the ball last year and would have had more if it wasnt for Jones shining so much. Peterson just produces every chance he gets and he is the 3rd RB on the depth chart! RB possition is probaly the deepest and most secure on the team. Give true logic behind your statments next time.

WR Honestly, their WR do not scare me. I understand Moose had fewer opportunities with Orton at the helm, but he had A LOT of drops last year. He'll give you 70 or so catches and 7-8 TD's but he is getting up there in age. You never know when he'll lose the marginal amount of speed that he has. They were waiting for Gage to step up all last year, didn't happen. Bradley had 1 good game last year before he got injured, too soon to proclaim him a capable starter. Berrian can stretch the field but again, too soon to say he's starter material.

OL Their line is good but Miller, Kreutz, and Brown are getting up there in age. I like Garza but if one your your tackles gets injured and you have to play Qasim Mitchell you are fucked. He is terrible.
Mitchel is not the only backup on the team. and he is solid in the rotation in spelled moments. Still the O-line is more solid than anything in the NFC north.

DL I really like this position. The ends are good and Idonije is a good backup. Tommie Harris is a beast and they have a good roation at DT. Haynes hasn't lived up to his draft position though. Why is that?
Hmmm, if you have been watching the Bears you would know this answer. He was drafted under Dick Jauron who wanted him to gain weight for there scheme, then Lovie came and wanted him to lose weight for his quick line scheme. He wasnt blasting off da line quick enough so in comes O-gun via trade of Booker, and now Haynes has been moved to DT to make a four man rotation inside that no team can match. Once again a strong point.

LB Urlacher and Briggs, what can I say. All the other LB has to do is not make mental mistakes and you'll be fine.
Just like I been saying, and how many teams have one all pro LB not to mention TWO!

CB I don't think Vasher is as good as his numbers indicate. He's not a shutdown guy. Tillman struggled last year, can throw on him all day. Who knows about Manning. I dunno if there will be any disciplinary action.
Tilman has been caught deep before but you cant just throw on him. But he does have problems with elite speedy WR's. The average #1 WR has no chance against him. Vasher may not be as good as his numbers indicate and like i said before I NEVER SAID HE WAS A SHUTDOWN CB. No CB in the league is. So saying that I will take his numbers over any of your CB numbers anyday since INT's means the other team no longer has the ball and you offense has an extra chance to score. There will be do action taken by the team in regards to manning, they have already said so. In his case the field production is all that matters right now.

S Brown's had injury problems and I've always thought he was a little overrated, still very good though. I thought Harris did a good job for a rookie. That's why I was surprised at the Bear's draft.
Brown is solid period. He would start for any team in the NFC north. Harris was soid for a rookie but he was caught out of possition some times and his recovery speed isnt great if he bites on a play. Enter Manning(the rookie) and his outstanding speed and atheliticism and may the best man win. Once again a soid possition made stronger.

I thought the Bears' draft sucked. Desmond Clark is nothing special and I thought for sure they would target a TE. Manning is coming from a small school. Will he contribute this year? Devin Hester is nothing special as a CB. Sure he can return kicks, but is it really worth a second round pick to grab a returner, especially when you need offensive help.
I thought you said you been watching the Bears? If so you will notice that Lovie said the player that stood out the most and looked outstanding with his catches and improved speed is Clark. Why should they have drafted a TE? which one would have been better than Clark? EXACTLY. "Manning is coming froma small school"....uh, is that all you have to say to disaprove of this pick? I'm sure I dont have to mention how many good to great players came from small schools in the NFL. He will compete for the starting FS possition and may start by week 3. Hester not only returns kicks, he was the best in doing so last year in college. You need to watch clips of this kid, hes pretty much amazing at what he does when he touches the ball. no one can ever cath him if he gets a step on them. And he finds seems that only a slim jim can fit through. Big upgrade from fumble4u Wade. He will come in on Dime Packages and earn his keep. The Bears offensive help was only apparent at QB last year when Orton was tossing the pig skin. The WR's were getting open but he kept throwing into the stands! Grossman came back in the last weeks and moved down the field with no problem. and the Runig game was solid all year even when everyone knew they had to run. So please stop following lead by saying they needed to draft offense when there was no offensive player on the board that would help the team more than the players they took. Anytime a team is not picking in the top half of the draft they more than likely get looked at as having a poor draft cuz they dont pick a player that was on ESPN for months leading up to the Draft.

I have a question for you Baddest Bear. Is Lovie involved with the offense at all, or is that strictly under the control of Turner? Lovie is a good coach although he made some mistakes last year (poor clock management, etc). I like Rivera and thought somebody would pick him up as a coach this offseason. I predict 10-6 or 11-5 for the Bears.
Lovie is involved on both sides of the ball but more so with defense than offense. I do think he made some mistakes on clock management during one game last year. All coaches make mistakes its how they learn how to not make them again is what make them great. Your prediction is what I envision also.

[/b]

[The Shadow]

You're A Homer *clap, clap, clap clap calp*
*repeat*

The Bears defense is sick. They'll be top 3 in the league, and we'll be very good and top 10, but the difference in talent is still huge. Their defense is as good as the Raven's when they won the super bowl if not better.


May I stop 'calping' now?
One small wide receiver sliced & diced that 'sick defense' last year......

The fact that the Bears completely goofed on the draft this year - and will again feature that same sadsack offense - once more shows the McCaskey touch, condemning any hint of success.

[Dabaddestbear]

Vasher may not be some amazing cover corner, but he's a risk taker and a playmaker. I'd love for him to be a Packer. Realistically, with my Packer googles off, the Bears are better at every position defensively. We are pretty close or worse in every position except for QB.

You know why Vasher is a playmaker and can afford to take risks? Because he is on a very good defense that is able to create pressure with its front 4. He's able to jump routes because the QB only has a limited amount of time in the pocket. That, along with the fact that the Bears are very comfortable with their scheme, is why he makes plays.

Don't believe me? Check out his picks from last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll-dqKPMgjE&search=nathan%20vasher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ5yPMepvYA&search=nathan%20vasher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mch-2S7vsFw&search=nathan%20vasher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU6NpmSggZo&search=nathan%20vasher

I see a player who took advantage of errant throws by quarterbacks under pressure.

He's still a good player, but it's not as if he is making ridiculous interceptions. He's normally in correct position and he benefits from the Bear's good defense.

Not many INt's are made ridiculously. How many CB's make Sports Center every week for an acrobatic one handed INT?
If you noticed against the Packers, Redskins, and Falcons the Qb was not under immediate pressure. They tossed the ball up hoping to make a quick play and Vasher read it better than the WR each time, except for the one against the Falcons, the ball was popped lose but he had awareness to pick the ball out the air for an INT. What makes a good CB is being able to locate the ball b4 the WR. To be in better possition to make a play on the ball. To catch the ball once it hits your hands. All those picks was not from pressure but from ball hawking skills. There are other good defenses with good presure up front in the NFL but their CB's didnt pick off da ball as well. Now he is not a shut down CB for they dont exist. But he finds where the ball is on his side of the field.

[Dabaddestbear]

You're A Homer *clap, clap, clap clap calp*
*repeat*

The Bears defense is sick. They'll be top 3 in the league, and we'll be very good and top 10, but the difference in talent is still huge. Their defense is as good as the Raven's when they won the super bowl if not better.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the vaunted Bear defense get shredded by ONE GUY in the playoffs? I remember watching an outstanding Ravens defense absolutely dominate everyone they played in 2000, especially in the playoffs.
I don't dispute that the talent level of the Bears defense is superior to ours, but puhleeze - top 3? One of the reasons the Bears achieved their defensive ranking last year is they got to play Detroit twice (with Joey Heatherton and Jeff Garcia), an injury ravaged/depth challenged Pack twice and a dysfuntional Viking squad led by Daunte & Tice. Does anybody else recall Trent Dilfer (!) beating the Bears with 2 late TD passes? The Bangles embarassing them? The Steelers flat out running them over?
I also seem to remember our NFL Europe/Arena League offense putting up over 325 yards in each of our two losses last year.
Will the Bears win the division this year? Probably. But it might be with an 8 and 8 record. And their defense will once again get exposed in the playoffs.

Well since none of those players are on the packers squad or in the NFC north, maybe you should think of anothre reason why the Bears wont blow this division wide open. and keep in mind all those yarsd mean nothing if they shut you down wen it counts. Ask any team in the NFl and they will agree. 325 yards but got your QB killed each time and with a lost....I would keep that to myself and shoot myself if I ever mention it again.

[Dabaddestbear]

You're A Homer *clap, clap, clap clap calp*
*repeat*

The Bears defense is sick. They'll be top 3 in the league, and we'll be very good and top 10, but the difference in talent is still huge. Their defense is as good as the Raven's when they won the super bowl if not better.


May I stop 'calping' now?
One small wide receiver sliced & diced that 'sick defense' last year......

The fact that the Bears completely goofed on the draft this year - and will again feature that same sadsack offense - once more shows the McCaskey touch, condemning any hint of success.

uh, he is a homer for the Bears when he is a Packer fan?
sad sack offense? hmm, lets see they turnde the ball over less than the packers and one WR did not destroy the enitre defense. I dont remember him throwing the ball or running out the backfield or lining up across from O-Gun. He owned Tillman that day and now its a new day. And the New day says The Bears are the team to Beat by the packers. The Bears looked bad against a few teams last year while the Packers looked horrible against a whole bunch of teams...yep, the Bears suck

[Deputy Nutz]

What year was it when the Bears won the division and everyone thought the Monsters of the Midway were back, only to fall back to form the next year. Was that 2001? Granted it was under Dick Juron, but still, this but still this Bears franchise has yet to put together two winning seasons since the mid 80s.

I guess I would be more threatened if the Packers played in the NFC East.

Oh, and Partial, Vasher ain't no better than Harris and Woodson.

Hawk is going to be unbelievable and having everyone forgetting about Urlacher as the best defensive player in the NFC North. I guess I will make that bold prediction because it is the off-season, and guess what, the packers had a much better draft and a more aggressive off-season. Lets not forget that Ryan Pickett had over 70 some tackles as a defensive tackle, he is the real deal.