Let's be fair: Rodgers was ready

[Patler]

I can't think of any examples of highly touted QB's that failed with their initial team, only to do well somewhere else. All the first round flameouts I can think of never had a resurgence.

I think Steve Young falls into that category. He was highly touted, and Tampa Bay drafted him but gave up on him after two seasons, one as their starter. He sat for most of four seasons in SF, playing only as a backup until finally taking over for Montana and forging an 8 season career as their starter good enough to earn him a spot in the HOF

I dont' want to quibble, but let's not forget that he came to the Bucs after 2 years in the USFL. He was the first player taken in the supplemental draft..and after two years they drafted Vinnie..which pretty much told everyone what they thought of him.

However, while the Bucs may have viewed him as a bust..obviously the Niners didnt' think so..or the Bucs were very trade savvy..i'm inclined to think the former since the Bucs were so poorly run back then. The Niners gave up a 2nd and a 4th for him...that is a pretty hefty price to pay for a backup.

Quibble? You are agreeing with me, aren't you?
Young was very highly tauted, and the Bucs paniced when he through a few interceptions his second season, so they jetisoned him.

I just meant that it wasnt' really his first team.

The bucs...well everything they did sucked. Until Culverhouse died, very few players or coaches could succeed.

What do you mean it wasn't really his first team? What other NFL team did he play for before the Bucs? The USFL was not the NFL. Success in the USFL did not mean success in the NFL anymore than success at an elite NCAA school ensures success in the NFL. All it did was make him a great prospect.

[Scott Campbell]

Censorship and moving threads should be done as a last resort. Not as a way to demonstrate total authority. I guess this is RetailGuy on the loose?

Just be glad you're not a mod, and on the receiving end of a bunch of complaints about moron's like you and I screwing up the forum. And they have to be nice to everybody - including the people who really don't deserve it. I don't think it matters whether or not we agree with every little thing they do, but I at least appreciate they they do all the dirty work around here.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Patler,

The theme of the thread was failures with their first team...there was no mention of league.

So, i was just saying he wasn't a failure with his first team. He was a failure with his second team.

As for the USFL...that was a pretty decent league. They lured a ton of top talent. The problem wasn't the top talent...it was depth. That is what separated them.

For example young passed to NFL wr townsell on the express.

[Scott Campbell]

All it did was make him a great prospect.

And wealthy. They paid him in an annuity, and he still gets $1M/year from that old defunct USFL team.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Censorship and moving threads should be done as a last resort. Not as a way to demonstrate total authority. I guess this is RetailGuy on the loose?

Just be glad you're not a mod, and on the receiving end of a bunch of complaints about moron's like you and I screwing up the forum. And they have to be nice to everybody - including the people who really don't deserve it. I don't think it matters whether or not we agree with every little thing they do, but I at least appreciate they they do all the dirty work around here.

speak for yourself. I don't screw up the forum.

and I don't agree that deleting posts that are critical of censorship amounts to doing "dirty work" for the forum. I call it thin-skinned, and counter-productive.

[Patler]

Patler,

The theme of the thread was failures with their first team...there was no mention of league.

So, i was just saying he wasn't a failure with his first team. He was a failure with his second team.

As for the USFL...that was a pretty decent league. They lured a ton of top talent. The problem wasn't the top talent...it was depth. That is what separated them.

For example young passed to NFL wr townsell on the express.

Then no highly tauted draft pick qualifies because each and every one of them was a success with a major college team. After all, in your logic, the league doesn't count. How about the CFL, or NFL-E?

The USFL had some good players and some good teams, but it in no way shape or form compared to the NFL.

[Scott Campbell]

speak for yourself. I don't screw up the forum.

Well that's odd. I wonder why your post was deleted instead of mine then. Hmmmm. Maybe it was a clerical error.

[Harlan Huckleby]

speak for yourself. I don't screw up the forum.

Well that's odd. I wonder why your post was deleted instead of mine then. Hmmmm. Maybe it was a clerical error.

the forum can survive criticism. aggressive censorship screws-up a forum.

[Scott Campbell]

Then no highly tauted draft pick qualifies because each and every one of them was a success with a major college team. After all, in your logic, the league doesn't count. How about the CFL, or NFL-E?

Or pee wee team for that matter.


Were in a Packer forum. The default value should be the NFL.

[Scott Campbell]

the forum can survive criticism. aggressive censorship screws-up a forum.

Agreed, and agreed. I think both of those are allowed to flourish here. Mad gives you a lot longer leash than I would.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Patler,

The theme of the thread was failures with their first team...there was no mention of league.

So, i was just saying he wasn't a failure with his first team. He was a failure with his second team.

As for the USFL...that was a pretty decent league. They lured a ton of top talent. The problem wasn't the top talent...it was depth. That is what separated them.

For example young passed to NFL wr townsell on the express.

Then no highly tauted draft pick qualifies because each and every one of them was a success with a major college team. After all, in your logic, the league doesn't count. How about the CFL, or NFL-E?

The USFL had some good players and some good teams, but it in no way shape or form compared to the NFL.

College isn't a pro team.

CFL..canadian..not the same rules, and not set up to compete. E..minor leagues.

The USFL had tons of NFL players. On Young's 84 team..there were 29 NFL players. And, the best USFL teams could imho play with the worst NFL.

We can agree to disagree.

[HarveyWallbangers]

the forum can survive criticism. aggressive censorship screws-up a forum.

Agreed, and agreed. I think both of those are allowed to flourish here. Mad gives you a lot longer leash than I would.

I agree with Harlan here. Who the hell deleted his post? It was harmless. WTF!

[mission]

The only forums I've seen (since I started participating in 1997) die a slow, boring death were ones that had censorship.

The biggest ones that I am still a member of today are ones that, for the most part, let the contributors police the boards themselves.

Allowing personalities, strangely enough, is the heartbeat behind a forum. Content, contributions, etc ... that's what get people here in the first place. I've founded and ran some big ones when I worked at GameSpy (NBA-Live.com, Maddencentral.com, FOFCentral, all the PlanetWhatever.com's -- I think all our still huge and active ?) and that's a characteristic I've seen across the board.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't think there was anything sinister about it (unlike Harlan), but I think a mod made a mistake removing it. It was probably Zool. He has an itchy trigger finger.

[Scott Campbell]

I think I understand what's going on, but I'll leave things for Mad or the mods to explain. It's not my place.