Backup QB: TT's bluff gets called.

[Scott Campbell]

Overall I agree with Gunakor. Flynn won the backup job because he flashed a few times during the preseason. Brohm didn't, and won his roster spot purely on draft status. No coaching staff wants to be forced into playing their backup QB, so I wouldn't read too much into MM plugging Rodgers back in after he rubbed some dirt on his shoulder. I'm sure Belechik isn't to keen about starting Matt Cassel either, but they've won some games with him anyway. We can win some games with Flynn if we have to.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I judge a QB by the way he handles the ebb and flow of a game, making his own mental adjustments depending on what he sees and making decisions accordingly.

In the long run, that's how I would judge a QB. But backups are not there for the long run, their first job is the ability to step into a tough game and deliver a minimum level of poise and competence. Flynn didn't cut the mustard.

3 plays against Tampa are not enough to show me that he can't get the job done.

Agreed, he may develop, and I am in favor of giving him a shot as starter this weekend. But there are only 16 games, the backup has to be ready on day 1. Flynn wasn't, and the coaches acknowledged that with their decisions.

TT holds a large share of the blame for the loss at Tampa. If they had a QB capable of getting a first down, or at least trying to get a first down, in the situation that young master Flynn was thrust into, the team had a good chance of winning.

[Gunakor]

Agreed to a certain extent HH. I guess my point was that there's no way of knowing what adjustments Flynn may or may not have made because Rodgers came back into the game in the next series. I'm allowing for the possibility that Flynn, had he come back out for a second series, could have made an adjustment or two and moved this offense for a winning score. Likewise, I'm hoping that if he's needed in Atlanta that he'll be in for more than a series so he can get into the flow of the game. My feeling is that he'll get hot as the game goes on, even if he doesn't come out on fire right at kickoff.

[sharpe1027]

Agreed, he may develop, and I am in favor of giving him a shot as starter this weekend. But there are only 16 games, the backup has to be ready on day 1. Flynn wasn't, and the coaches acknowledged that with their decisions.

TT holds a large share of the blame for the loss at Tampa. If they had a QB capable of getting a first down, or at least trying to get a first down, in the situation that young master Flynn was thrust into, the team had a good chance of winning.

Harlan, maybe this is the better way to express what I've been saying.
Here is the 1st situation:
1) backup QB
2) just coming off the bench
3) facing a 3rd and long
4) in the 4th quarter
5) with the lead
I'm sorry, but you will see a lot of coaches run a conservative play and expect to punt. It really doesn't scream that Flynn was considered inadequate by MM. In fact, it wouldn't have been that crazy for them to run a conservative play had Rodgers still been playing.

Here is the 2nd sitaution:
1) Behind by a few points
2) Late in the 4th quarter
3) your starting QB already threw a 30 yard strike after being hurt
4) your starting QB says he's good to go after throwing passes on the sideline
5) there is no trainer saying he can't go
You will see a lot of coaches put the starter back in.

I just don't get how you can call Flynn unprepared. Maybe he wasn't prepared, but truthfully you didn't get to see enough of him to know.

Maybe you're just pissed at TT and trying to find ways to support your anger. I don't know, but I don't see how you can keep pretending that the issue is so clear-cut.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm sorry, but you will see a lot of coaches run a conservative play and expect to punt.

No. Packers had a slight lead, but Tampa had the momentum. No coach concedes a punt there if he has any confidence at all in the QB. Worst case, a ball thrown away is about the same as a run into the line; and a first down completion is huge.

You will see a lot of coaches put the starter back in..

I don't think so. Rodgers had severe pain in his throwing shoulder on that last toss.
I don't accept your description of the situation that Rodgers was good to go.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm allowing for the possibility that Flynn, had he come back out for a second series, could have made an adjustment or two and moved this offense for a winning score.

Sure, and that's not far-fetched.

I am not arguing possibilities, I'm arguing probabilities.

Its true that I am looking at this game situation with a bias - the rookie QBs didn't look good enough to serve as backups in the preseason - so I see the brief evidence of the Tampa game as confirmation of the bigger picture.

[sharpe1027]

I don't accept your description of the situation that Rodgers was good to go.

Straw man.

My description never said Rodgers was good to go. I stuck to the facts.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I suspect the trainers and coaches were concerned about putting Rodgers back in, but felt they had no choice.

There are subjective decisions you ignore, not just clear facts.

[sharpe1027]

No. Packers had a slight lead, but Tampa had the momentum. No coach concedes a punt there if he has any confidence at all in the QB. Worst case, a ball thrown away is about the same as a run into the line; and a first down completion is huge.

Staw man. I never said concede the punt, I said conservative call. Many coaches will make a conservative call with the lead in the 4th quarter when facing a 3rd and long. Mike Holgrem did it and he had one of the greatest QBs ever in Favre.

Worst case is an interception. Second worse is a sack. We had already shown that both were dangers earlier in the game before Flynn stepped on the field. MM knew this.

[sharpe1027]

I suspect the trainers and coaches were concerned about putting Rodgers back in, but felt they had no choice.

There are subjective decisions you ignore, not just clear facts.

You suspect so eh? I guess your subjective decision took into consideration that the same trainers and coaches were letting him throw on the sidelines? MM is not going to make a medical decision. If Rodgers says he can go and the trainers agree, why the hell would MM hold him out?

Your argument gets weaker by the minute. Suddenly, I need to rely heavily upon your admittedly subjective analysis of hypothetical sideline occurrences. That doesn't cut it in my book.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I never said concede the punt, I said conservative call. .

running the ball into the line on 3rd and 13 is conceding a punt. get real.

[Harlan Huckleby]

If Rodgers says he can go and the trainers agree, why the hell would MM hold him out?

There is no proving this issue. If you beleive the decision to play an injured player is a black and white medical decision, game consequences be damned, then your logic is indesputable. I say you're nuts.

Taking a broader view, MM would have held-out a QB with an injured throwing shoulder if he thought he had another option. Rodger's injury was relatively serious.

[mission]

I suspect the trainers and coaches were concerned about putting Rodgers back in, but felt they had no choice.

There are subjective decisions you ignore, not just clear facts.

Anyone that doesn't get this just has never played at a competitive level of football before. You get hurt every single game... really. Judging whether you're hurt or injured -- especially with adrenaline pumping -- is nearly impossible in the heat of the moment.

Lots of stuff hurts the next day that you just had no clue was even hit in the first place.

Either way, I coulda thrown a better slant pass than the one Flynn threw on that first play. :P

[sharpe1027]

If Rodgers says he can go and the trainers agree, why the hell would MM hold him out?

There is no proving this issue. If you beleive the decision to play an injured player is a black and white medical decision, game consequences be damned, then your logic is indesputable. I say you're nuts.

Taking a broader view, MM would have held-out a QB with an injured throwing shoulder if he thought he had another option. Rodger's injury was relatively serious.

You are the one trying to prove that Flynn was unprepared because of it, not me. My entire point is that it is not as black and white as you say. Why is it so hard for you to admit that your subjective opinion, relying on a lot of disputable issues is not the only reasonable opinion?

Taking a broader view, your conclusion is not nearly as obvious as you claim.

[sharpe1027]

I never said concede the punt, I said conservative call. .

running the ball into the line on 3rd and 13 is conceding a punt. get real.

Honestly, I agree, but it was too damn close to your straw man arguments for me to resist:

Saying TT stuck the Packers with a backup QB that was worthless is saying TT is worthless, for at least that position. get real.