Were we all fooled?

[Bossman641]

Packers rushing game through 5 games this year - 95.6 yards/game and 3 rushing TD

Packer rushing game through 5 games last year - 67.6 yards/game and 4 rushing TD

Packer D this year - 25.6 points/game

Packer D last year - 18.6 points/game

The Packers weren't lighting it up last year due to Favre. He wasn't the reason for the 4-1 start. It was the defense.

The defense is giving up an extra TD a game this year. That's why we are 2-3. Not cause Rodgers sucks, not cause the offense isn't scoring or moving the ball, it's cause the defense. Why's that? Maybe because we've been ravaged by injuries. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Ok.... I have been trying to stay out of this, but I can't any longer.

Your statistical analysis doesn't work. 1st off, we played different teams last year. 2nd, the offense overall stayed on the field longer leaving less minutes for the defense to get winded. 3rd, Favre had more completions & yards last year.

Check the # of plays in the 1st five games from last year to this year... Both offense and defense. Your analysis is WOEFULLY incomplete. This offensive line is just that - OFFENSIVE.

Ted is to blame for that. That's a way different thing than blaming him for getting rid of Favre. We should have a "world class" OL after 4 seasons with the number of ppl that have run through here... We don't. You can say they are playing better, I DISAGREE. They're worse. Why? I think Favre made them look better because of his experience. Rodgers can't do that, and shouldn't be expected to do that. Rodgers needs to rely on his line, AND HE CANNOT. Have you watched this past game? Watch his feet.... He looks like Jeff Garcia during his last season in San Francisco. HAPPY FEET - and I don't blame the guy. He's getting killed back there.

Finally, I GIVE ZERO CREDIT FOR INJURIES. All the Sherman haters gave ZERO CREDIT FOR INJURIES. Gotta play with what you've got, that's the way it works.... or, at least that's what I've been told for the past FIVE seasons.

Wrong

Through 5 games last year the offense had held the ball for 151 min, 51 sec. Through 5 games this year it's been 145 min, 42 sec. That's not even an extra 1.5 min a game.

I do give credit for injuries. I thought Sherman got a raw deal even being judged in that last season. The team was decimated and was lining practice squad players up all over the field.

Whatever. I say the record is due to the defense not playing well this year. The offense certainly has had their terrible showings (Tampa game) but by and large I put it on the defense. And I blame that for the most part on injuries.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Well then based on that it was different teams and different scenarios, we can't compare the two QBs and thus it is fruitless to claim who would have done better in either scenario.

The QB comparisons AREN'T the point. The point is that Rodgers is not able to trust his line. As a result we've got a lot of 3 and outs and the d is on the field longer, while injured. Recipe for a few losses, no?

It's the same line, so Favre could trust it but Rodgers can't?

[retailguy]

Well then based on that it was different teams and different scenarios, we can't compare the two QBs and thus it is fruitless to claim who would have done better in either scenario.

The QB comparisons AREN'T the point. The point is that Rodgers is not able to trust his line. As a result we've got a lot of 3 and outs and the d is on the field longer, while injured. Recipe for a few losses, no?

It's the same line, so Favre could trust it but Rodgers can't?

Favre has 16 years of experience. Rodgers has 5 games of starting experience. You can't compare that. You just can't. Favre could see from the way the defense lined up where breakdowns would likely come, you can't expect that of Rodgers. If you do, you're crazy.

Rodgers needs a solid line to be successful. He doesn't have one, and has played pretty well in spite of it. Watch his feet in the next game. Watch them. He's nervous back there, with good reason.

[Patler]

2nd, the offense overall stayed on the field longer leaving less minutes for the defense to get winded. 3rd, Favre had more completions & yards last year.

Check the # of plays in the 1st five games from last year to this year... Both offense and defense. Your analysis is WOEFULLY incomplete. This offensive line is just that - OFFENSIVE.

Ted is to blame for that. That's a way different thing than blaming him for getting rid of Favre. We should have a "world class" OL after 4 seasons with the number of ppl that have run through here... We don't.

Can't resist, have to comment:

After 5 games:
2007 - 320 plays on offense, 1811 yards, 30:22 time of possession/game.
2008 - 298 plays on offense, 1687 yards, 29:08 time of possession/game.

So the difference on offense, average per game, 4.4 plays, 24.8 yards, 74 seconds more in 2007 than 2008. I hardly think that is significant as to the impact on the defense wearing down.

Building an O-line takes time, especially when the immediately preceding GM (one Mike Sherman) provided nothing in backups to build on. Wolf said you have to draft O-line every year to work with them. He had a string of guys ready to step in as guys like Ken Ruettgers, Harry Galbreath, Aaron Taylor, Adam Timmerman and Ross Verba left in free agency or retired. Along came Rivera, Wahle, Clifton and Tauscher. Sherman had Wells, but who did he have to replace Rivera and Wahle? It was particularly problematic when he, Mike Sherman, arranged their contracts to have critical years in the same year.

TT has re-emphasized the need to continually bring in O-linemen, with a couple each year.

Rivera did not even start until his third season, and then was the weak link on the line for several seasons.

Wahle started his second season, was benched after a few games into his third season never to be seen again until his fourth season.

Colledge and Spitz are just entering their third seasons and seem to be ahead of what Rivera and Wahle were in their third seasons. There are young, developing players in Barbre, Sitton and even Coston. Perhaps Giacomini and Moll, too. Who was Sherman developing? Kevin Barry and Wells, that's about it.

The succession of O-line players that Wolf always provided stopped dead in its tracks under Sherman. TT has re-started it, but they have to experience the void left by Sherman before any kind of stability will be seen.

And that's just one area of the team. How about WR. LB and DB? What depth did TT inherit from Sherman? Nothing behind the starters, and even some of the starters shouldn't have been. Now, WR looks pretty good and even the DBs don't look too bad with starters out. The linebackers are head and shoulders above what was here when TT arrived.

TT also had to dedicate a draft pick or picks to replacing Favre, something Sherman didn't have to do and never did even though he did give it some lip-service in his pre-draft discussions.

You can complain all you want about the O-line, but that was only a small part of what TT had to fix, and probably the most difficult for seeing instant results. He had a big project and isn't done yet.

[mraynrand]

Wolf struck gold in the 2000 draft with Clifton and Tauscher. Had he not, the Packers would have been up shit river without a swizzle stick. Those two had virtually zero developmental time, and were instrumental to (eventually) a pretty good year, and a good run of five years on the O-line. Thompson has invested a lot in the line and has crap to show for it so far. That's an honest assessment. It isn't TT hate either, because he's had some really good successes elsewhere. His line drafting so far sucks twigs and berries.

[Pacopete4]

so ur admitting he's failed at the oline position so far? k.... now how bout the dline... he find ne one good there yet?

[Scott Campbell]

Jolly and Pickett. And doesn't he get credit for keeping Kampman after he signed that offer sheet with the Vikes? He also paid Jenkins, who was looking like he was worth all that money prior to hurting himself.

[arcilite]

man, paco

do your friends ever get tired of you in person?


you seem like someone who might just get punched in the face sometime because they dont know when to quit.

[Scott Campbell]

man, paco

do your friends ever get tired of you in person?

Friends???

Plural???

[mraynrand]

so ur admitting he's failed at the oline position so far? k.... now how bout the dline... he find ne one good there yet?

If you're asking me, I thought Pickett was a good FA aquisition. Jolly seemed to have some potential, but has flattened. Montgomery is just a guy, Thompson looks pathetic, but is a rookie. Hunter is not an end and isn't much in pass rush. Jenkins and Kampman were Sherman picks - outstanding linemen, aren't they (or weren't they, in the case of Jenkins, Sherman's rookie FA pick). Clearly, Sherman outperformed TT so far on the D-line, since Gravy Jackson was easily as good as Pickett over a comparable period of time.

[pack4to84]

man, paco

do your friends ever get tired of you in person?


you seem like someone who might just get punched in the face sometime because they dont know when to quit.

the most negative poster I have seen. I would have punched him by now if I knew him in person.

[Bossman641]

Jolly and Pickett. And doesn't he get credit for keeping Kampman after he signed that offer sheet with the Vikes?

They don't count. And we should have a couple Pro-Bowlers behind them. Not to mention TT probably could have swung a trade for Osi somewhere along the way.

Actually, I'd say DE is the one place TT has failed. Montgomery sucks, and I don't think he's placed enough emphasis there.

[Scott Campbell]

Clearly, Sherman outperformed TT so far on the D-line, since Gravy Jackson was easily as good as Pickett over a comparable period of time.

Maybe on drafting, but not FA's and retaining players. Shermy whiffed big time on C. Hunt and Joe Johnson.

[mraynrand]

Jolly and Pickett. And doesn't he get credit for keeping Kampman after he signed that offer sheet with the Vikes? He also paid Jenkins, who was looking like he was worth all that money prior to hurting himself.

If you give Thompson credit for keeping Kampman and Jenkins, then you have to give Sherman credit for resigning guys like KGB, Green, Clifton, etc. etc. That's kind of lame. Sherman brought in Kampman and Jenkins. TT should get less credit for keeping them.

[Scott Campbell]

They don't count.

I'll give him credit for keeping good players, vs. losing them via free agency.